What a pain! One handed backhand

10sbeast888 said:
set up the hand high, pull the racket straight across to the right fence. contact more in front for a closed face... it's just a slower tempo to hit after the apex, manageable for slow foot speed like mine..
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Not saying I can't do it lol

Just saying it's easier for me to hit them on the rise

Easier to hit 2HB on the rise too

Hitting right off the bounce allows you to use more of the ball's forward momentum (and your body's), can be a lot more abbreviated/blocky
 
Curious said:
It’s very simple. All you need to do is change your mindset ie swing hand to the ball (green) instead of thinking about drop, low to high etc. The racket head will have to follow blue, unless you fight it not to happen.


https://imgur.com/a/cexiNYQ
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Yes the green is the mental que you need, the blue is what happens.

Taking it back higher or not is more stylistic imo. Ie in that wawrinka video, it's his unit turn that is the reason it's higher (more just how he holds his grip), then he adjusts it to the balls contact height then swings slightly up, I.e. the green que.
 
user92626 said:
Is that supposed to be a praise or an insult to @Curious? To each in ballmanguy academy. :unsure::unsure::unsure:
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all positive energy man...

C can make a great coach, since it took so long for him to figure these things out.

I am similar, mostly self tot, and all the past mistakes become valuable experiences when I work with my adult guys and juniors.

the orthodox coaches are likely more effective in working with kids and complete beginners, just cookie-cutter them.. dealing with adults with past experiences (aka bad habits) is a different matter.. having had the same bad habits, ironically, becomes an asset in teaching.
 
Curious said:
Yes, here it is. Inertial tennis 2.0! Ok, no, let’s call it maybe inertial racket head drop in which there’s only a forward swing that also drops the racket head.


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Do you think about the contact at all? For example, like, how you want the racket face to go through the ball? That kind of mental awareness?
 
Curious said:
Vaguely. Just the direction mainly. I should probably visualise the ball’s trajectory.
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Do you ever write down these aha moments so you can compile them into a proper stroke or are you just gonna wake up in the morning and wonder why you own a bag full of shallow spaghetti strainers?
 
Curious said:
I should probably visualise the ball’s trajectory.
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Depending on the serve (target, spin, pace) you are hitting, the ball will travel through a particular point over the net. It is good to look at or visualize the narrow square space around that spot that you want the ball to travel through while you are in your starting stance just before you start the toss motion. It makes the serve much more accurate. If you hit a T serve near the line, the square window might be in the other service box over the net as the ball will curve in - just aim for the ball to travel through the window over the net and you will be serving a lot of aces hitting your target spots.
 
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socallefty said:
Depending on the serve (target, spin, pace) you are hitting, it will travel through a particular point over the net. It is good to look at or visualize the narrow square space around that spot that you want the ball to travel through while you are in your starting stance just before you start the toss motion. It makes the serve much more accurate. If you hit a T serve near the line, the square window might be in the other service box over the net as the ball will curve in - just aim for the ball to ball to travel through the window over the net and you will be serving a lot of aces hitting your target spots.
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I haven’t practiced that enough. I will. Thanks for reminding again. I’m mostly focusing on targets in the box.
 
socallefty said:
Hard to believe since so many fundamentals are missing. I do believe you are the worst kind of student as you think you can figure out things on your own better than your coaches even though their specialty is developing tennis players and your specialty is medicine. You are also attracted to esoteric things rather than foundational things. Many doctors are notoriously bad at learning other skills because they have a big ego and they are unconscious about how incompetent they are at the new skill they are trying to learn. If I had tried to teach you in a parallel universe, I’m pretty sure I would have ‘fired’ you as a student within two weeks and given a bad reference of you as a student to all the coaches I would talk to.
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I linked back to read this entire post from John's quote for context. Wow...this isn't exactly a flattering post to @Curious o_O:)
 
Curious said:
Well, he has a point, doesn’t he?
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if we are only talking about this thread, in the context of not involving any local coaches, then no.

the internet coaches didn't see the flipping for 2 years.. that's not the student's fault.

Although I agree that using a good local coach is the fastest way to succeed.
 
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10sbeast888 said:
if we are only talking about this thread, in the context of not involving any local coaches, then no.

the internet coaches didn't see the flipping for 2 years.. that's not the student's fault.

Although I agree that using a good local coach is the fastest way to succeed.
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Flicking issue has actually been raised by quite a few members but the cause and solution was not given.
 
Curious said:
Vaguely. Just the direction mainly. I should probably visualise the ball’s trajectory.
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I can.

The shadow fh swings send the ball to the moon.
g1qjnwa.png



However, shadow swings and 1hbhs shots are mostly ok, most of them. You never had trouble hitting self hand fed balls, as far as I can recall.
 
Curious said:
Flicking issue has actually been raised by quite a few members but the cause and solution was not given.
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I see, still not the student's fault, coaches should have drills to fix.

and perhaps there was too much noise.... how would the student know which advice to take? again the reason to put a face behind the coaching.
 
Back to the basics. Progression from the simplest but the most fundamental swing.
I was so impressed by this video that I couldn’t miss it. Grabbed the bag and headed straight to the court.




 
Curious said:
Back to the basics. Progression from the simplest but the most fundamental swing.
I was so impressed by this video that I couldn’t miss it. Grabbed the bag and headed straight to the court.




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racquet face angle looks good to me

it doesn't look like you have enough coil or uncoil though, seems to be like 25-40 degrees. if we're getting 90 on the forehand, we should aim for similar on the backhand. check out Stan below. Chest faces back fence pole when fully coiled, chest faces net post when uncoiled, ~90 degrees

it would be good to get a side on view of your BH like this

 
Curious said:
Yes, here it is. Inertial tennis 2.0! Ok, no, let’s call it maybe inertial racket head drop in which there’s only a forward swing that also drops the racket head.


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On your FH, can you start it from the point where your non-dom hand is still holding the racket? Right now, you start from near the drop.
 
Curious said:
You know I prefer a shallow take back of the hand.
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It has nothing to do with shallow or deep.

It's just harder to demonstrate your hard swing starting from the point where both of your hands are on the racket. From there you can do your shallow take back if you want.
 
user92626 said:
It has nothing to do with shallow or deep.

It's just harder to demonstrate your hard swing starting from the point where both of your hands are on the racket. From there you can do your shallow take back if you want.
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How can I do that while tossing the ball with my left hand?
 
Curious said:
Back to the basics. Progression from the simplest but the most fundamental swing.
I was so impressed by this video that I couldn’t miss it. Grabbed the bag and headed straight to the court.




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the drill is the same thing my 'thumb drill' teachs - the pressure point and the racket path.

your still doing it wrong. - somehow this again goes to my point - racket control... without guidance from a live coach, almost 100% of recs get it wrong..

your doing a fake ww, like everyone else who self teaches:)

the diff between fake/real is subtle, but it makes a visible difference in the ball flight. - what I call the 'academy shape' vs the lack of.
 
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Curious said:
Back to the basics. Progression from the simplest but the most fundamental swing.
I was so impressed by this video that I couldn’t miss it. Grabbed the bag and headed straight to the court.




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StringSnapper is correct about the coil. You need to build the stretch in the back of the shoulder so the power is more effortless. With these shots you are forced to use smaller muscles that aren’t prepared properly to make power.
 
ballmachineguy said:
StringSnapper is correct about the coil. You need to build the stretch in the back of the shoulder so the power is more effortless. With these shots you are forced to use smaller muscles that aren’t prepared properly to make power.
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Focus was on the correct motion of the arm and racket but a more torso driven swing would be better.
 
10sbeast888 said:
the diff between fake/real is subtle, but it makes a visible difference in the ball flight. - what I call the 'academy shape' vs the lack of.
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Would you say the first few shots in his video do not have the "academy shape"? I'm trying to understand what you are calling out, and I am unsure what you mean as I wouldn't have a problem with the shots that I'm seeing in the beginning of the vid. It looks like a pretty good starting point to me.
 
Kevo said:
Would you say the first few shots in his video do not have the "academy shape"? I'm trying to understand what you are calling out, and I am unsure what you mean as I wouldn't have a problem with the shots that I'm seeing in the beginning of the vid. It looks like a pretty good starting point to me.
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to the trained eyes they are obvious fake WWs

the point of Olivari's drill of rolling the ball over the net, is to encourage the student to push the racket UP ONLY, with no intention of propelling the ball forward with the hand.

if this were understood, e.g. C would have a relaxed wrist and let the racket head fall for an effective roll up.

but he misunderstood the vid - like any self-tot players do... the instinct is to use the strings to send the ball forward, then he followed up with a fake ww.

you might ask - well if the the racket head goes UP ONLY, how does the ball even fly forward - the answer is that in the early stage of acceleration the racket is on edge and the face is more closed, so the rolling action is the acceleration forward.

so the forward speed of racket comes from the core pivot and the arm extension but the job of the hand is ONLY to roll the ball.

this is the reason most recs forever stuck at 3.5 and not far beyond... a universal problem on the fh and bh.

and because of the misunderstood intention of accelerating the sweet spot - from a pure physics stand point, Newton's first, you cannot change racket path mid flight from accelerating the face to accelerating the edge - which is the definition of WW.
 
10sbeast888 said:
to the trained eyes they are obvious fake WWs

the point of Olivari's drill of rolling the ball over the net, is to encourage the student to push the racket UP ONLY, with no intention of propelling the ball forward with the hand.

if this were understood, e.g. C would have a relaxed wrist and let the racket head fall for an effective roll up.

but he misunderstood the vid - like any self-tot players do... the instinct is to use the strings to send the ball forward, then he followed up with a fake ww.

you might ask - well if the the racket head goes UP ONLY, how does the ball even fly forward - the answer is that in the early stage of acceleration the racket is on edge and the face is more closed, so the rolling action is the acceleration forward.

so the forward speed of racket comes from the core pivot and the arm extension but the job of the hand is ONLY to roll the ball.

this is the reason most recs forever stuck at 3.5 and not far beyond... a universal problem on the fh and bh.

and because of the misunderstood intention of accelerating the sweet spot - from a pure physics stand point, Newton's first, you cannot change racket path mid flight from accelerating the face to accelerating the edge - which is the definition of WW.
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I took your advice about not trying to accelerate the sweetspot to the ball. Worked like magic until I had to retire from heat exhaustion bc I haven’t played in two months. But it was a glorious 5 games until the crash
 
Rosstour said:
I took your advice about not trying to accelerate the sweetspot to the ball. Worked like magic until I had to retire from heat exhaustion bc I haven’t played in two months. But it was a glorious 5 games until the crash
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way ahead of ya bro - this is also a 'complaint' I got from my 'students'.... because now they are no longer getting breaks to pick up the ball from the ditch every 3 shots, the rallies are much longer and the cardio requirements go way up...

then they need to work on the breathing lol.
 
Curious said:
Focus was on the correct motion of the arm and racket but a more torso driven swing would be better.
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The problem with that is you must be thinking you have to make the correct motion with the arm. When you have the big muscles stretched/loaded up and thinking strings to ball, the correct motion takes care of itself.
 
ballmachineguy said:
The problem with that is you must be thinking you have to make the correct motion with the arm. When you have the big muscles stretched/loaded up and thinking strings to ball, the correct motion takes care of itself.
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that's why your the wii coach. 'takes care of itself' only happens in wii tennis.

the correct motion NEVER takes care of itself... that's how anti-natural tennis is.

every year among wimby/USO time the community courts are filled with ADHD people who see the big muscle motions and pros magically hit these amazing balls....

so they come to the court, copy the same big muscle motions, and hit bunch of shyt balls and give up... until next year.
 
10sbeast888 said:
to the trained eyes they are obvious fake WWs

the point of Olivari's drill of rolling the ball over the net, is to encourage the student to push the racket UP ONLY, with no intention of propelling the ball forward with the hand.

if this were understood, e.g. C would have a relaxed wrist and let the racket head fall for an effective roll up.

but he misunderstood the vid - like any self-tot players do... the instinct is to use the strings to send the ball forward, then he followed up with a fake ww.

you might ask - well if the the racket head goes UP ONLY, how does the ball even fly forward - the answer is that in the early stage of acceleration the racket is on edge and the face is more closed, so the rolling action is the acceleration forward.

so the forward speed of racket comes from the core pivot and the arm extension but the job of the hand is ONLY to roll the ball.

this is the reason most recs forever stuck at 3.5 and not far beyond... a universal problem on the fh and bh.

and because of the misunderstood intention of accelerating the sweet spot - from a pure physics stand point, Newton's first, you cannot change racket path mid flight from accelerating the face to accelerating the edge - which is the definition of WW.
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I have a lot of hang ups with the way you are stating things. I'm sure you would do a good job of explaining this in person by demonstrating it, but reading it is a bit frustrating. I think I get the gist of it though. You are trying to ensure the proper use of the wrist and discourage the tendency many people have to use wrist extension/flexion to "slap" some power into the ball. That makes sense to me.

Feel free to try and correct my understanding if I have misstated it.
 
Kevo said:
I have a lot of hang ups with the way you are stating things. I'm sure you would do a good job of explaining this in person by demonstrating it, but reading it is a bit frustrating. I think I get the gist of it though. You are trying to ensure the proper use of the wrist and discourage the tendency many people have to use wrist extension/flexion to "slap" some power into the ball. That makes sense to me.

Feel free to try and correct my understanding if I have misstated it.
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not even extension/flexion. the mere instinct of hitting the ball forward is wrong, as C tries use the Olivari drill it's clear he missed the point.

anyway - impossible to discuss on these boards... bandwidth is too narrow:)
 
What's a WW?

BTW I was exactly right.
ppma said:
In the past, It was a solid background of what should be done, and it will be in the future. That's how things work in this thread. Forgetting about the fundamentals, and experimenting with things like using a bent elbow on the take back, flipping the wrist, and much more nonsense is what will come in the next pages.

Meanwhile, Curious is still losing his balance on at least half of his shots, which indicates that he is either not distributing his weight appropiately during the swing, swinging across the body instead of forward, uncoiling excessively, or a mix of all of them. Hence he'll have very little control of the racquet.
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I don't think hitting static balls really helps much. The biggest challenge with OHBH is timing and that's conquered by constant repetition.

Which is why I always play on that wing and rarely slice unless the ball is shoulder height.
 
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