What a pain! One handed backhand

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
If your drop is late your racquet head will lag.
If you are lagging, your racquet will arrive late.
If you drop your racquet there will be nothing for you to lag.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Indeed. Need to give credit to ACT though. I trusted him because he can hit a one hander, and also has thought about technique. He managed to fix/improve his own stroke. So he can spot issues and offer ways to fix them.

Quick fix and big win coming for you right now.

Your left foot as you drive - it can be a little more horizontal. So the tip of your foot faces the fence. This will mean you’re better side on. And if you’re side on you can rip it better with your hips
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Quick fix and big win coming for you right now.

Your left foot as you drive - it can be a little more horizontal. So the tip of your foot faces the fence. This will mean you’re better side on. And if you’re side on you can rip it better with your hips
Makes sense. Thanks.
 

ACT

Rookie
@zill @ACT thanks for the great hit and I really appreciate your help with very valuable tips and feedback tonight, ACT. (y)
Never hit a backhand better than this!



Great meeting you and was a very good hit and quick fun set of doubles, you're doing extremely well, keep it up

You’re doing it wrong.

Let's put this one to bed hey

Despite the flack that @Curious gets here, he actually hits very well. Can accelerate and decelerate into the ball at will for managing shot selection, aims where he's hitting with intention, serves accurately and does not double fault easily, volleys confident and extremely well and was holding easily 10-15 sometimes 20 shot rallies half court consistently with my partner on multiple balls at a very respectable pace. For his age, he's also very fit, barely taking 3-4 short drink breaks through 2 hours of hitting. Pretty sure it's all on camera, proof is in the pudding.

He may not have 100% the most beautiful technique in the world, but neither do I and most of us here at a recreational level don't - what he does have is actually a full well rounded game, capable of playing at a good level.

Anyone who knows anything about technical improvement and teaching, knows that you work in increments, and you find as many small wins as you can to build a foundation for long term success - especially when someone knows how to rally well, you don't look to revamp everything from scratch, because you destroy years rhythm and confidence, that is a silly way to approach things.

But no, you wouldn't understand that, because you have no proof of your own technical improvement or the acknowledgement of people that you help with all that information you regurgitate - you only know how to teach according to the textbook nature of what a swing is supposed to look like, but you have no ability to actually apply that in the real world. Which is making adjustments over time, to allow them to actually become a better player, not just asking them to ineffectively look good for the camera.

You wouldn't actually understand the nuances that go into teaching someone based on the variances of their individual game or personality, and you can't just insert your cookie cutter explainations and expectations to help someone improve, who has grooved thier own technique for years and years, who thinks about tennis in very specific ways, where only certain mental cues will work with their brain and thought process.

All of which, by the way was done only in full pace live play, no easy ball feeding and warmups, it was straight into it. @zill is easily UTR 8+ if not for his health issues at current age, and high 9+ in his younger days, even as difficult as his current struggles with his knees, still hits clean and damn well. @Curious is live hitting against him, at a good pace, and he's adjusting as best as he can to deep, high, short balls, on the run, off balance, you name it - no easy feat for a OHBH. He made minor adjustments last night, and it yielded almost immediate results, not much you can ask for in a 2 hour session of hitting only, and I only spoke to him for probably 20 minutes max.

After hitting against him myself, I would put my money that @Curious is by far better player out of you two, probably not even that close - but as you said, you know so much that we don't right? I mean, surely there's a reason why you hide no? waiting for you to prove me wrong ;)

But hey barring all the technique BS, it was great to meet some players here and have a good hit with them
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Great meeting you and was a very good hit and quick fun set of doubles, you're doing extremely well, keep it up



Let's put this one to bed hey

Despite the flack that @Curious gets here, he actually hits very well. Can accelerate and decelerate into the ball at will for managing shot selection, aims where he's hitting with intention, serves accurately and does not double fault easily, volleys confident and extremely well and was holding easily 10-15 sometimes 20 shot rallies half court consistently with my partner on multiple balls at a very respectable pace. For his age, he's also very fit, barely taking 3-4 short drink breaks through 2 hours of hitting. Pretty sure it's all on camera, proof is in the pudding.

He may not have 100% the most beautiful technique in the world, but neither do I and most of us here at a recreational level don't - what he does have is actually a full well rounded game, capable of playing at a good level.

Anyone who knows anything about technical improvement and teaching, knows that you work in increments, and you find as many small wins as you can to build a foundation for long term success - especially when someone knows how to rally well, you don't look to revamp everything from scratch, because you destroy years rhythm and confidence, that is a silly way to approach things.

But no, you wouldn't understand that, because you have no proof of your own technical improvement or the acknowledgement of people that you help with all that information you regurgitate - you only know how to teach according to the textbook nature of what a swing is supposed to look like, but you have no ability to actually apply that in the real world. Which is making adjustments over time, to allow them to actually become a better player, not just asking them to ineffectively look good for the camera.

You wouldn't actually understand the nuances that go into teaching someone based on the variances of their individual game or personality, and you can't just insert your cookie cutter explainations and expectations to help someone improve, who has grooved thier own technique for years and years, who thinks about tennis in very specific ways, where only certain mental cues will work with their brain and thought process.

All of which, by the way was done only in full pace live play, no easy ball feeding and warmups, it was straight into it. @zill is easily UTR 8+ if not for his health issues at current age, and high 9+ in his younger days, even as difficult as his current struggles with his knees, still hits clean and damn well. @Curious is live hitting against him, at a good pace, and he's adjusting as best as he can to deep, high, short balls, on the run, off balance, you name it - no easy feat for a OHBH. He made minor adjustments last night, and it yielded almost immediate results, not much you can ask for in a 2 hour session of hitting only, and I only spoke to him for probably 20 minutes max.

After hitting against him myself, I would put my money that @Curious is by far better player out of you two, probably not even that close - but as you said, you know so much that we don't right? I mean, surely there's a reason why you hide no? waiting for you to prove me wrong ;)

But hey barring all the technique BS, it was great to meet some players here and have a good hit with them
He’s doing it wrong.
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
@ACT you think would have been better if @Curious had hit his bh with more topspin to get better shape over the net?
He can’t hit with topspin because he is stepping forward while swinging. He will always have zero variety. People claim I am not able to fix his backhand. Curious isn’t capable of fixing it. He has been told for three years that his front foot has to be down before he leaves his take back position. He’s not going to do it.
 

zill

Legend
He can’t hit with topspin because he is stepping forward while swinging. He will always have zero variety. People claim I am not able to fix his backhand. Curious isn’t capable of fixing it. He has been told for three years that his front foot has to be down before he leaves his take back position. He’s not going to do it.

At the same time actually. He is doing it right. Problem is he still has too shallow of a drop. One or two good ones though.
 

ACT

Rookie
He’s doing it wrong.
Nice non response, didn't even try to refute a single word, I expected more lol - also wrong btw, his forward step has nothing to do with his ability to generate top spin or not, but you can't expect someone who doesn't know what it feels like to hit one - case closed

@ACT you think would have been better if @Curious had hit his bh with more topspin to get better shape over the net?

Another technical change for another day - but top spin is for margin and safety, and only slightly needed on a OHBH it is not necessary until the ball is too low

You're also forgetting court conditions - these courts were reasonbly high bouncing, because he's a single hander, there's no point to try to come under the ball, it's not going to be beneficial or will he have more success by letting the ball jump over his shoulder or wait for the ball to drop by standing way behind the baseline. We're not athletic enough to be playing 1-2m behind the baseline and cover the whole court and hit through everything

He is better off cutting off the ball and the angle to nullify the high bounce - I also was shanking more last night because i kept trying to spin it at first and then stated to hit way better when i just flattened everything
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
At the same time actually. He is doing it right. Problem is he still has too shallow of a drop. One or two good ones though.
Multiple problems for curious. You were getting more topspin on your 2 hander than he was. Thats something that shouldn’t happen with a solid one hander. True he hit great in the vid but something is off if the 1 handed bh is that flat.
 

zill

Legend
Nice non response, didn't even try to refute a single word, I expected more lol - also wrong btw, his forward step has nothing to do with his ability to generate top spin or not, but you can't expect someone who doesn't know what it feels like to hit one - case closed



Another technical change for another day - but top spin is for margin and safety, and only slightly needed on a OHBH it is not necessary until the ball is too low

You're also forgetting court conditions - these courts were reasonbly high bouncing, because he's a single hander, there's no point to try to come under the ball, it's not going to be beneficial or will he have more success by letting the ball jump over his shoulder or wait for the ball to drop by standing way behind the baseline. We're not athletic enough to be playing 1-2m behind the baseline and cover the whole court and hit through everything

He is better off cutting off the ball and the angle to nullify the high bounce - I also was shanking more last night because i kept trying to spin it at first and then stated to hit way better when i just flattened everything
That’s the day I’ll be waiting for.
 

zill

Legend
Multiple problems for curious. You were getting more topspin on your 2 hander than he was. Thats something that shouldn’t happen with a solid one hander. True he hit great in the vid but something is off if the 1 handed bh is that flat.
Exactly my thoughts.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Multiple problems for curious. You were getting more topspin on your 2 hander than he was. Thats something that shouldn’t happen with a solid one hander. True he hit great in the vid but something is off if the 1 handed bh is that flat.
Ok, not solid or consistent yet but don’t make it sound like I have no idea how to create top spin and can’t do it at all! :)


 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Ok, not solid or consistent yet but don’t make it sound like I have no idea how to create top spin and can’t do it at all! :)


You can’t.

Stepping forward while dropping the racquet pulls the shoulder forward with it and it is why you let go of the racquet early and don’t get it in the right position before pulling it forward. Flicking your wrist at the end isn’t topspin.
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
We want to see you hit balls with that shape from the baseline.
Getting there bit by bit. I take notes all the time. Watching ACT bh I see very nice forward extension of the swing. Mine is still too shallow horizontal left to right swing. Will definitely fix it. I seem to forget staying sideways although it was a big revelation recently. Will go back to focusing on it. So in summary, turn much more but don’t uncoil after the forward swing starts, keep elbow bent at all times except at contact, make sure you extend the swing forward and up, don’t side slap it.
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
I think one of the biggest things I understood this morning is the amount of uncoiling. Full coil 135 degrees, then drop and swing but with only 45 degrees of uncoiling! That facilitates the drop and also makes sure your forward swing goes up and extends avoiding a shallow horizontal swing.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
We enjoy talking tennis as much as playing tennis. Almost.
That is true.

Talk is actually quite enjoyable. Like early morning while drinking coffee or late evening while relaxing after a good match.

Yeah...carry on.

I remember well my childhood's childish obessions/hobbies. Most fun in the world while I were with my hobbies. :)

/
/
/

What were the most fun things that you and @zill recently have at the courts? Not necessarily together though. Do share.
 

zill

Legend
That is true.

Talk is actually quite enjoyable. Like early morning while drinking coffee or late evening while relaxing after a good match.

Yeah...carry on.

I remember well my childhood's childish obessions/hobbies. Most fun in the world while I were with my hobbies. :)

/
/
/

What were the most fun things that you and @zill recently have at the courts? Not necessarily together though. Do share.
Playing tennis then thinking about it immediately afterwards.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
I need a correct stroke first. Rhs is my least concern now. I don’t think I swing that slow anyway.
while that makes sense I think you can learn the correct stroke faster when you hit it with RHS. It will weed out the wrong technique very fast. Said another way, shots can be off, but swung slow, they can go in. Swinging fast they go out. Sure if you want to go slow and take longer thats cool, but maybe try a batch against the ball machine at the end of a session where you just add in some RHS.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
while that makes sense I think you can learn the correct stroke faster when you hit it with RHS. It will weed out the wrong technique very fast. Said another way, shots can be off, but swung slow, they can go in. Swinging fast they go out. Sure if you want to go slow and take longer thats cool, but maybe try a batch against the ball machine at the end of a session where you just add in some RHS.
You have a point. ACT actually asked me to swing fast at one stage last night. The swing should be free, full and fast, I agree.
 

ACT

Rookie
You should be able to hit slow and fast all with control.
Technically he does, he has the ability to choose when to inject pace through RHS, swing path needs to be ingrained that's what's key - there's no point swinging out unconsciously, you will build bad habits
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
@ACT
I really feel I found the right stroke with this in mind. That extra turn you emphasised nailed it. 135 degree coil to 45 degree uncoil is the most crucial ingredient in the recipe.
I think one of the biggest things I understood this morning is the amount of uncoiling. Full coil 135 degrees, then drop and swing but with only 45 degrees of uncoiling! That facilitates the drop and also makes sure your forward swing goes up and extends avoiding a shallow horizontal swing.

 

ACT

Rookie
@ACT
I really feel I found the right stroke with this in mind. That extra turn you emphasised nailed it. 135 degree coil to 45 degree uncoil is the most crucial ingredient in the recipe.


Definitely looks better - at the contact point you dont need to turn the wrist too forcefully, you want to pull through the shot, opening the racquet face at the right time to make contact in that strong position we were talking about last night

Most importantly is just to swing into a position where the racquet is underneath the ball, but only slightly, not too steep of an angle

Because you need to also hit through the ball to maintain depth and pace, brushing up too aggressively which the top spin pro promotes is not an accurate representation of a shot you want to hit for real - you actually want to crash into the plastic holsters of where the ball is held a bit
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Definitely looks better - at the contact point you dont need to turn the wrist too forcefully, you want to pull through the shot, opening the racquet face at the right time to make contact in that strong position we were talking about last night

Most importantly is just to swing into a position where the racquet is underneath the ball, but only slightly, not too steep of an angle

Because you need to also hit through the ball to maintain depth and pace, brushing up too aggressively which the top spin pro promotes is not an accurate representation of a shot you want to hit for real - you actually want to crash into the plastic holsters of where the ball is held a bit
Absolutely. Agree with all.
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
@ACT
I really feel I found the right stroke with this in mind. That extra turn you emphasised nailed it. 135 degree coil to 45 degree uncoil is the most crucial ingredient in the recipe.
Whatever happened to not being able to make a full turn because of physical limitations? They disappear?
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
@zill @ACT thanks for the great hit and I really appreciate your help with very valuable tips and feedback tonight, ACT. (y)
Never hit a backhand better than this!


nice, swinging big and lots of them going in. the exact same thing was what improved my backhand recently, although maybe mine is slightly different with the "two turn" thing. turn, and then coil. that was the missing key on my backhand to start blasting it.

when i play though i always try to focus on my forehand first and get that grooved, because i can always fall back on backhand slices. i cant fall back to forehand slices on that side and expect to win. the forehand has to be firing. if the backhand is firing as well, thats the pure joy of tennis. and a bit of ego!
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
nice, swinging big and lots of them going in. the exact same thing was what improved my backhand recently, although maybe mine is slightly different with the "two turn" thing. turn, and then coil. that was the missing key on my backhand to start blasting it.

when i play though i always try to focus on my forehand first and get that grooved, because i can always fall back on backhand slices. i cant fall back to forehand slices on that side and expect to win. the forehand has to be firing. if the backhand is firing as well, thats the pure joy of tennis. and a bit of ego!
Yes, extra turn is big. Coil 135 degrees followed by uncoil 45 degrees. Very important imo. ACT says he used to turn less like 90 degrees and fixing that with extra coil made a big difference.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Yes, extra turn is big. Coil 135 degrees followed by uncoil 45 degrees. Very important imo.
agree, i've been saying (what i think is the same thing?) in different terms - uncoil until your chest faces the net post then hit the breaks, the arm whips through into contact. its different on the forehand, because you make contact when your chest faces the net. its 45 degrees off on the backhand just to confuse us! same as the forehand on the 2hnder though

Sounds like ACT is a great instructor anyway, those were looking good.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
i'm still a big advocate of not having to blast the backhand every time. the slice and the block and the push are all good variety on the backhand. but you do need the ability to blast it just to strike a bit of fear into your opponent.
Agree. All stroke parameters should be adaptable depending on the situation, right? The amount of turn, size of take back, drop, swing path etc.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Curious told me he trusts @ACT more. They are a better couple!
Don’t misquote me!
This is what you said, what I said.

“You have drop troubles full stop lol.

Am just giving you my honest opinion. But my drop is even worse than yours with the 1hb. Yours however is at the level that is unsatisfactory unfortunately.”


“ACT doesn’t seem to think it’s a big deal. No offence but I value his opinion on this.”
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Don’t misquote me!
This is what you said, what I said.

“You have drop troubles full stop lol.

Am just giving you my honest opinion. But my drop is even worse than yours with the 1hb. Yours however is at the level that is unsatisfactory unfortunately.”


“ACT doesn’t seem to think it’s a big deal. No offence but I value his opinion on this.”
I know how much you value my opinion, but, the good news is, it’s not an opinion. If ACT was the architect of what I saw in the video, you are never going to get anywhere.

There is no room in the world for tennis backhands where your front foot isn’t down before you/or as you (placating Zill here) start the racquet from its take back position. There is no room in any sport where you are going to pull or throw any object: ball, javelin, racquet where your foot is not set down first, save for a jumping, show-off shot. ACT said some other stuff that makes me think he isn’t the guy to coach you out of these trouble waters. At least wear a life jacket.

Anyway, just making sure you put the front foot down correctly timing-wise is your only hope and quite possibly, the only fix. To be clear, down early and with as much distance from the rear foot as is reasonably comfortable.

You say you can make topspin and hit hard enough. You could use better, easily-attainable technique and hit with 40% effort and get everything you do now with 80%. Also, you could shape the ball as desired and be consistent with better accuracy.

And don’t feel bad for me wasting my breath yet again. I’m just typing between sets at the gym.
 
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