Curious
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, it comes down to that.
What a pain! One handed backhand
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I don’t think this is trivial, coach.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Well, since you are the one leading this discussion, it probably is.
optic yellow
Legend
No he is getting at the same principle J0lly was talking about re: serve orientation in his own thread.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, wasn’t his 5 to 11 swing idea crazier than mine?
It threw a lot of people off.
zill
Legend
One last attempt to clear it up.
An old man trying to do his morning exercises??
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I’m not old. Just older than you. Like you’re older than Mike, Jack and Mary.
zill
Legend
Curious
G.O.A.T.
They’re not spring chicken either.
zill
Legend
No, but yeah you’re not old yet as 65 is the broadly agreed age to classify someone as ‘old’ though the exercises you were doing broadly resembled exercises done by the elderly and especially in the mornings.They’re not spring chicken either.
optic yellow
Legend
No maybe it's because I am bad at serving and have no body of knowledge it is trying to push against but it made perfect sense to.Yeah, wasn’t his 5 to 11 swing idea crazier than mine?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Can anyone link a video of a pro swinging even 6 to 12 on a serve let alone 5 to 11? Mind you Jolly said you don’t actually do that, but the intention helps I guess.
ratherlosethanpush
Rookie
Now try it with the arm in the position it would be in for a 1hbh (it's not by your side) and see how it feels.
One last attempt to clear it up.
That's seems weak and to be asking for an injury.
There's 16 muscles across the shoulder joint iirc from when I studied sports science that are doing a variety of motions and some causing more than 1 motion when activated.
The shoulder joint or maybe area is a better word needs to stay connected.
As for the rev motion video, just keep your off hand swinging back and its counterbalanced from over-rotation. With your trunk and arms working that way you're not over roating and having your foot come round it's unnatural.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
I’ll take SYNTHESIS for 1000 Alex.
One last attempt to clear it up.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
One of the reasons if I have a “you have one chance to hit a winner or we are all dead” scenario I pick a backhand is because of similar advice.
In High School our number 2 player was named Sung Kang and he was straight out of Mortal Combat. I was trying out and assigned to hit with him. I hit a backhand slice which he caught and said “quit hitting that p%£y sh*t”. I spent hours and hours and hours just trying to hit the ball harder and harder…
Dragy
Legend
I immediately thought about MK when I read the name... I'm nerdy rather than racist!
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks for the correction. It is Kombat.
Its a good point. I was thinking more of his attitude than race. I switched High Schools half way through. I came from one that was mostly white/black to one where I was the minority. They did a report on the news about the 2nd school because it was the most ethnically diverse school in the country.
Anyhow it was in the 80s and times were different. It was a poor school and no one cared about tennis and we had no lights. When it got dark they would yell “hey honky take off your shirt, it’s dark”.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Did he also catch your hardest serves during warmup with his hands and throw it back at you? (and yell out "f*#king hit the ball, man!"
Actually, this is something I do sometimes during warmup -- catch serves. Harder kick serves can be more challenging to catch, though.
Dragy
Legend
I recall catching balls on clay after odd bounce, when I was already set for FH, but it jumped into me or even BH... warmup, not matchplay.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Wow. You got my memory going. I used to catch serves all the time. Though I am sure I got to the point where that wasn’t smart and stopped.
Pretty much self taught especially back then. I had a volleyball jump serve. You know where they run like 6ft and spike it? Yep i did that. Coach made me change it straight away.
Dragy
Legend
It's as illegal as footfaulting!
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Yep. Which is why I had to change. Though Battistone has a legal form though zero idea why he tosses with his right hand
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Because in volleyball, people usually toss with the same arm you use to hit.
Now that I think about it, it might be because on a volleyball jump serve, you upper body is more or less facing the net at contact with your hand. Lower body also starts facing more to the net than in a tennis serve.
Also, possibly more importantly, you want to toss in a straight line towards the net and arcing forward. Then you take your gather steps and jump.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Wouldn’t be surprised. This is a weird vid but implies that it is. Also good a coach is FINALLY seeing the future I predicted.
TLDR. Just do it. The SW is a legit bh grip. No need to change grips.
Oops. Here is the vid
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Of course. But you don’t have to switch between fh and bh groundies or returns. So conti and sw is all you need. And your returns are better because no need to change grips. And your high backhands are better too.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
So why ask?
Anyhow its debatable. Its a pistol grip. Test it yourself. Its pretty close between sw, extreme eastern and eastern. Hard to discern from a photo. But if you get a sw grip on your fh and keep it hitting on the same side of the strings it will look like the photo.
Said another way to be clear I am just saying a sw forehand grip is identical to a sw bh grip.
Conti and SW is all you need, anyway. I hear the point about not having to switch on returns.
I recall that henin had a similar grip to guga. Looked it up:
https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-henin-reveals-tips-for-one-handed-backhand-and-slice
So two of the best ohbhs in history played w the SW grip. Maybe it works.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I hadn’t looked at pictures before I asked.
His index knuckle is right on the left side edge of bevel 1. I checked other photos as well. Knuckle on bevel 8 just feels too extreme, similar to how a full western fh grip feels. Possible of course.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
People hit western fhs all the time and don’t think its extreme. Maybe I am double jointed or something though no one ever said I was.
Anyhow it does work and it seems less awkward than an eastern.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah its just natural now. The only downside I find is that switching grips doesn’t happen that much and sometimes I serve and get caught in conti and will hit the return back with a conti fh. My mind still thinks I serve and volley
Curious
G.O.A.T.
This is interesting. I actually feel now that eastern and semi western are equally extreme! I like the one in between, ie the edge.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
extreme eastern is solid. Since I switched to a western fh I now hit an extreme eastern bh. I don't like it as much as the sw but my fh seems better.This is interesting. I actually feel now that eastern and semi western are equally extreme! I like the one in between, ie the edge.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
I had one coach telling me something similar, like: "when are you going to swing at the ball, if not in practice"?
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Dude, can you rally 20 balls CC with your 1HBH?This is interesting. I actually feel now that eastern and semi western are equally extreme! I like the one in between, ie the edge.
Same for FH mind you.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
75% of tennis points have fewer than 4 shots apparently.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Dragy
Legend
Having this belief in mind, I recently came across a very passionate Moscow tennis community. They have a matchmaking platform that I used couple of years ago to play 6 matches (2 tournaments, 1/4, 1/2 and final, and losers’ bracket). There’re around 100 active players (and many more “occasional” participants), some coaches, events, YouTube videos. Definitely going to join them.
So, I have several videos of matches. Where “under 4 shots” rule doesn’t seem to work.
Would you be able to beat these guys? How would you gauge their rankings/level of play?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Sure but once the point starts your 20 ball rally will be cut short again down to 3-4 max. So why not practice 3-4 shot rallies only? You know what they say, practice what you do in the match.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
They look like they’re from the same place as Medvedev!
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
More knowledgeble people such as @J011yroger have already answered you. Also there is a reason coaches(including mine) drill this.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
You are missing the point, as one has to groove his technique.
Of course if you are too passive, there are other drills for that.
Dragy
Legend
Quite possible. But what I see rather frequently, competitive players refuse to give up on balls. They run them down and hit back. They also hate to miss, so they learn no to. Then if they are committed enough, they also learn to hit better, working with coaches. And so they progress. Still getting to all balls and hitting them back, now a bit harder and faster, more forcing shots. Still patient in long rallies.
Courts are not too fast, there's been more very slick fast courts (indoors), but in recent couple of decades they mostly build modern hard courts, moderately slow. And there're not so many fast servers among the crowd to force shorter points - you see how even first serves start long rallies.
In my matches there're usually more short points, because I serve bigger, sometimes return bigger, but also miss too much - these guys practice much more than my 1.5h per week avg
Dragy
Legend
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Wow!
optic yellow
Legend
speedometer in cyrillic but not player names
Dragy
Legend
The thing with pros is they use ALL kind of practice, including stupid mini-games, soccer, and whatever. They have ton of practice time.
Now whether a rec player, or a particular rec player, shall do the same, but spread 20x less frequent during a season? Or doing 20x lower volumes?
It’s quite established that if player has limited time for tennis, the fastest way to progress will be playing matches. Meanwhile, there’s a ceiling, so at some point one has to improve fitness, technique, maybe learn better decisions and tactics… and then solidify for consistency on higher level, and apply in matches.
Not that I’m against long practice rallies, being able to hit 20 in a row makes you confident to hit one when it matters.
