What a pain! One handed backhand

zoingy

Rookie
The thing with pros is they use ALL kind of practice, including stupid mini-games, soccer, and whatever. They have ton of practice time.

Now whether a rec player, or a particular rec player, shall do the same, but spread 20x less frequent during a season? Or doing 20x lower volumes?

It’s quite established that if player has limited time for tennis, the fastest way to progress will be playing matches. Meanwhile, there’s a ceiling, so at some point one has to improve fitness, technique, maybe learn better decisions and tactics… and then solidify for consistency on higher level, and apply in matches.

Not that I’m against long practice rallies, being able to hit 20 in a row makes you confident to hit one when it matters.

Sorry, I was just being facetious haha. It's pretty clear that pros have plenty of long rallies during practice.

It was just a bit funny to me how it sounded like hitting 3-4 ball rallies is supposed to be a completely different skill than hitting 20 ball rallies.

Sure, to some degree "specificity is king", but only practicing shots that you sort of expect to miss once every 4 balls seems silly.
 

Dragy

Legend
Sorry, I was just being facetious haha. It's pretty clear that pros have plenty of long rallies during practice.

It was just a bit funny to me how it sounded like hitting 3-4 ball rallies is supposed to be a completely different skill than hitting 20 ball rallies.

Sure, to some degree "specificity is king", but only practicing shots that you sort of expect to miss once every 4 balls seems silly.
I got your irony. The point is, should you be practicing 20-shot rallies being a rec player with very limited court time? Why not 30? Is 15 good enough? 10?

If a player feels he can rally consistently, but doesn’t love entering such patterns? And he misses particularly when trying to execute serve +1 or return +1, or capitalizing on shorter/weaker ball? Shall he test himself with 20-ball rallies, or maybe spend the time doing 20-ball sets off a basket, shorter balls?

Or maybe he’s overall decent with rally and short balls, but gets tight and tries to do too much in point play? So he needs some live practice where he’s allowed to try and miss forcing plays without his opponent rolling eyes, because he was expecting 20-balls-each rallies in practice?

There’re actually many drills two can do mindfully. Like various triangle setups. But they need to know them, agree to do them. If there’s nobody cooperating, best way is to play sets with a mission to make particular plays multiple times. Extending rally’s and playing everything solidly CC might be one of them.
 

zoingy

Rookie
I got your irony. The point is, should you be practicing 20-shot rallies being a rec player with very limited court time? Why not 30? Is 15 good enough? 10?

If a player feels he can rally consistently, but doesn’t love entering such patterns? And he misses particularly when trying to execute serve +1 or return +1, or capitalizing on shorter/weaker ball? Shall he test himself with 20-ball rallies, or maybe spend the time doing 20-ball sets off a basket, shorter balls?
I don't think anybody is claiming that 20 is some magic number, the end-all-be-all of practice objectives, or that people should work on 20 ball rallies when they have more important weaknesses to work on.

Extending rally’s and playing everything solidly CC might be one of them.
Yea agreed here, it's just another tool in the toolbox, just like how one might practice "20-ball sets off a basket, shorter balls", despite how that wouldn't happen in a match. Long rallies aren't the full picture of course, but it would also be strange to imply it doesn't have much relevance. Being able to hit a quality percentage ball has plenty of carryover to the rest of the game after all.
 
Sure but once the point starts your 20 ball rally will be cut short again down to 3-4 max. So why not practice 3-4 shot rallies only? You know what they say, practice what you do in the match.
Lies, damned lies, government science and statistics as the saying goes.

Used to be 1.5 shot average at Wimbledon 30 years ago. Rally lengths have doubled, better hit 40 shot rallies in practice.

If your going to win practically every 20 shot rally against me, guess what I have to gamble and i'll make unforced errors (arguably forced), forced errors and I give you opportunities to hit winners when I gamble and I may hit a few winners too.

Oh and when people say ah but rafa is only 50 50 in long rallies, its because he's behind in most of them and turns them around. He fed and novak were gr8 on that short ball they forced or when up in a rally (murray wasn't) and hence it can appear from looking superficially at stats that long rallies are not so important.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Sorry, I was just being facetious haha. It's pretty clear that pros have plenty of long rallies during practice.

It was just a bit funny to me how it sounded like hitting 3-4 ball rallies is supposed to be a completely different skill than hitting 20 ball rallies.

Sure, to some degree "specificity is king", but only practicing shots that you sort of expect to miss once every 4 balls seems silly.
If I remember correctly you’re a ‘let’s hit from the middle and go home’ type of guy and you said you didn’t compete as you couldn’t handle it mentally, right?
It’s not a rally contest or meditation for me. I use my hitting time to prepare for match play. You’ll of course struggle with the chaos of match play if you don’t practice random balls. So I and my hitting partners warm up and go straight to ‘now let’s hit anywhere we want’, then points with serves with no scoring, then play games or sets.
This friend in the video told me that practicing with me has helped his game recently. He won a set off someone he plays regularly and never won a set before .


 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Sure but once the point starts your 20 ball rally will be cut short again down to 3-4 max. So why not practice 3-4 shot rallies only? You know what they say, practice what you do in the match.
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J
 
If I remember correctly you’re a ‘let’s hit from the middle and go home’ type of guy and you said you didn’t compete as you couldn’t handle it mentally, right?
It’s not a rally contest or meditation for me. I use my hitting time to prepare for match play. You’ll of course struggle with the chaos of match play if you don’t practice random balls. So I and my hitting partners warm up and go straight to ‘now let’s hit anywhere we want’, then points with serves with no scoring, then play games or sets.
This friend in the video told me that practicing with me has helped his game recently. He won a set off someone he plays regularly and never won a set before .


bro u need both the variety practice and the ohysical repuyion that alloes your mind the freedom to trust your body will do what you want it to do
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
yea trying to hit 20 ball rallies really ruined my ability to hit 3-4 ball rallies

this is why pros never hit more than 4 ball rallies during practice
BS.
And I am an attacking player.
I read since that you were speaking tongue in cheek...
 
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Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Passed the ultimate test on forehand: can you swing fast and still keep the ball in?
Bh close but not as confident yet. I’ll test it again tomorrow.
Practice makes perfect.

I was just trying that today, swing very fast on the FH against my coach...
I can keep it in for 3-4-5 shots.

Related question: what is the sweet spot racquet wise, for you guys, in terms of weight and swing weight(strung with overgrip)?

Minor answer:
My standard 27" Head TGT 293.1 racquet weighs 328g vs the 27.2" one that weighs 345g.
The SW being 328 vs 338. Both strung with OG( the longer one also has also a big dampener).
I can only hang out in rallies and defend, counter punch( not only attack slow balls, that I can do with either) with the lighter 328g and 328 SW.

How about you guys?
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
Practice makes perfect.

I was just trying that today, swing very fast on the FH against my coach...
I can keep it in for 3-4-5 shots.

Related question: what is the sweet spot racquet wise, for you guys, in terms of weight and swing weight(strung with overgrip)?

Minor answer:
My standard 27" Head TGT 293.1 racquet weighs 328g vs the 27.2" one that weighs 345g.
The SW being 328 vs 338. Both strung with OG( the longer one also has also a big dampener).
I can only hang out in rallies and defend, counter punch( not only attack slow balls, that I can do with either) with the lighter 328g and 328 SW.

How about you guys?
Vcore 95 with some lead at 3-9.
SW probably about 330.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
I was just trying that today, swing very fast on the FH against my coach...
I can keep it in for 3-4-5 shots.
I think that’s really a good way to see if you have solid topspin ground strokes. Can you swing at your max ( not 110% though) speed and not hit the net or the back fence repeatedly?
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
I think that’s really a good way to see if you have solid topspin ground strokes. Can you swing at your max ( not 110% though) speed and not hit the net or the back fence repeatedly?
I just said so, but in average 3 shots against a coach, max 5, after which either my movement fails me, or I win the point, or we miss( b/c he seldom attacks out of my range).
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
I just said so, but in average 3 shots against a coach, max 5, after which either my movement fails me, or I win the point, or we miss( b/c he seldom attacks out of my range).
I believe you need to just continue hitting that way never resorting back to slowing down. Accidents will happen. That’s ok. Can you do the same with your ohbh? If not why do you think so?
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
I believe you need to just continue hitting that way never resorting back to slowing down. Accidents will happen. That’s ok. Can you do the same with your ohbh? If not why do you think so?
Less practice, over time( including when playing matches). Most of us use the FH to dictate.

Slowing down happens even on the FH, in tense situations, when not match tough, speaking for myself.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Practice makes perfect.

I was just trying that today, swing very fast on the FH against my coach...
I can keep it in for 3-4-5 shots.
When hitting it up the middle or crosscourt to each other, can you hit more than 3-5 in a row before missing? (not trying to hit a winner)

Should be able to hit 50+ if hitting directly to each other.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
When hitting it up the middle or crosscourt to each other, can you hit more than 3-5 in a row before missing? (not trying to hit a winner)

Should be able to hit 50+ if hitting directly to each other.
Usually something breaks down like a slight misjudgment of the ball, the swing path or racket face angle before you get to 50, even 15.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Usually something breaks down like a slight misjudgment of the ball, the swing path or racket face angle before you get to 50, even 15.
Not so. Again 20+ shots on both FH and BH side are common practice.
And mini tennis can go forever :)
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Should be able to hit 50+ if hitting directly to each other.
This was discussed a lot before but who would hit to each other more than 5 in a row in match play? How about this? Hit to each other with any angle and depth allowed. How many good balls in a row can you hit?
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
This was discussed a lot before but who would hit to each other more than 5 in a row in match play? How about this? Hit to each other with any angle and depth allowed. How many good balls in a row can you hit?
How many crosscourt can you hit in a row? (partner also hitting crosscourt)
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
70-80% power.
I’m trying to free my swing from any hesitation. So I’ll be experimenting with full speed for some time just like my second serves. Both in practice and match play. Unless I get tired doing that I don’t see any reason not to do so.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
You have good power if you can hit all the way behind the baseline. Keep it up.
Happy with the forehand. I want to do the same now on backhand. Full speed and keep the ball in. If I can always swing at full speed there won’t be any over or under hitting anymore. See the point? How relaxing and freeing would that be mentally?
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Happy with the forehand. I want to do the same now on backhand. Full speed and keep the ball in. If I can always swing at full speed there won’t be any over or under hitting anymore. See the point? How relaxing and freeing would that be mentally?
Nice, but that seems like 80% to my untrained eye. Good progress though and the my past coach always recommended me to stay at that limit in matches.
 

Dragy

Legend
So I’ll be experimenting with full speed for some time just like my second serves.
On second serves, you have one same setup, no rush, all under control. In a point, balls come with varying speed, spin and depth, and your movement is changing it as well. So it's far from identical.

However, you can have 70-80% shot which is good enough and also consistent enough. Has margin. Does damage. No need to redline. Neither to slow down and overly control it, though.
 
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