What a pain! One handed backhand

[Curious]

I change the amount of topspin I am trying to hit by how much I pronate my forearm right at the initiation of the forward swing. With my left hand either on the throat or grasping the handle, it would interfere with that so I separate early.

Dropping the racket head by rolling the forearm counterclockwise more easily when the off hand is not in the way, in a way?

 

[Injured Again]

is he hitting w/ a wooden racket? lol. yeah, that's some serious 70s **** right there.

Edit: i'd like to see the poster play someone for whom that is a comfortable light pace and can return his shots with power and lots of spin. then, meh, not so much.

You mean with me using a wood racquet? Not a chance of me being competitive. I use a 112 square inch racquet because I am not a clean striker of the ball.

If you mean just in general, I’ve posted lots of videos over the years of me hitting against my kid and he can wallop the ball. My backhand generally hasn’t been the weakest part of my game.

 

[Injured Again]

Dropping the racket head by rolling the forearm counterclockwise more easily when the off hand is not in the way, in a way?

Yes, exactly that. Many times it’s a last moment decision how much spin I try to hit. If I take the racquet back and feel in good balance and the ball bounces like I expect, I’ll add a little more counterclockwise rotation. If I’m not I’m good timing, then I will minimally pronate and just try to hit the ball flat. I can do both off the exact same takeback, and my hope is this gives my backhand more tolerance for mis-timing or mis-judging the ball.

 

[Curious]

I forgot about all the technique stuff and hit balls with only McEnroe in mind! What does he do? Just turns and gets to the ball and swings low to high through contact. That’s it. Never felt better when I hit backhands.

 

[zill]

I forgot about all the technique stuff and hit balls with only McEnroe in mind! What does he do? Just turns and gets to the ball and swings low to high through contact. That’s it. Never felt better when I hit backhands.

That’s how you hit a 1hb BUT still inadequate drop.

 

[Curious]

That’s how you hit a 1hb BUT still inadequate drop.

I really don’t care about the amount of drop as long as I can hit like this. Btw you were so obsessed that I couldn’t hit cross court backhands. What do you think now?

 

[zill]

I really don’t care about the amount of drop as long as I can hit like this. Btw you were so obsessed that I couldn’t hit cross court backhands. What do you think now?

Ok cross court bh but how much spin are you putting on the ball? Also what I am really interested in is you hitting a cross court backhand from an incoming topspin shot. The balls you are receiving here are spinless sitters to be hit.

 

[10sbeast888]

I forgot about all the technique stuff and hit balls with only McEnroe in mind! What does he do? Just turns and gets to the ball and swings low to high through contact. That’s it. Never felt better when I hit backhands.

you do need to relax the hitting hand and let it drop...

couple of guys I helped on this shot... I told them to just hold in the fingers and relax the wrist, this will remove any manipulation and let it drop into ISR and you can rip.

 

[Curious]

Ok cross court bh but how much spin are you putting on the ball? Also what I am really interested in is you hitting a cross court backhand from an incoming topspin shot. The balls you are receiving here are spinless sitters to be hit.

Ok.

 

[zill]

you do need to relax the hitting hand and let it drop...

couple of guys I helped on this shot... I told them to just hold in the fingers and relax the wrist, this will remove any manipulation and let it drop into ISR and you can rip.

He is as relaxed as he can be here. Just intrinsic limitations with lack of drop. It’s relatively common.

 

[Curious]

you do need to relax the hitting hand and let it drop...

couple of guys I helped on this shot... I told them to just hold in the fingers and relax the wrist, this will remove any manipulation and let it drop into ISR and you can rip.

I’m trying to hit cross court here, preferably deep, not trying to rip anything.
I trust my body can adjust the amount of drop if I need to hit more loopy or heavier top spin. I’m simply after enough spin, enough pace and definitely enough depth and the whole purpose is so I can stay in the point with these shots in a match, ideally not get punished easily, then I can think about attacking and winning the point somehow, likely with my forehand.

 

[zill]

I’m trying to hit cross court here, preferably deep, not trying to rip anything.
I trust my body can adjust the amount of drop if I need to hit more loopy or heavier top spin. I’m simply after enough spin, enough pace and definitely enough depth and the whole purpose is so I can stay in the point with these shots in a match, ideally not get punished easily, then I can think about attacking and winning the point somehow, likely with my forehand.

That’s what all say/think and it ends up does happen to some extent but only on limited incoming balls and shot result is often limited or less than expectations.

This is my new team mate in the vid below. Relatively solid player as you can see but have exactly the same problem as my 1hb and Curious’, lack of drop. In that match he sliced more than he drove the ball. In that last point in the vid below he slices 3 balls before driving it as shown. I’d say throughout the match his slice to drive ration on the bh side is at least 3:1. If he was more comfortable with his bh wouldn’t slice as much.

And everything else about his bh is all there. Just shallow drop, exactly my problem. Actually Curious’ drop is not as bad comparably.

 

[Shroud]

I’m trying to hit cross court here, preferably deep, not trying to rip anything.
I trust my body can adjust the amount of drop if I need to hit more loopy or heavier top spin. I’m simply after enough spin, enough pace and definitely enough depth and the whole purpose is so I can stay in the point with these shots in a match, ideally not get punished easily, then I can think about attacking and winning the point somehow, likely with my forehand.

All this work and practice to just get the ball in? Why not try to make it a weapon. At least when you fall short of that goal it will still be decent. If you fall short of your “keep it in” goal what good is it?

Said another way, you need accel for spin. 1hbh adv is spin and minimizing it wont help.

 

[10sbeast888]

That’s what all say/think and it ends up does happen to some extent but only on limited incoming balls and shot result is often limited or less than expectations.

This is my new team mate in the vid below. Relatively solid player as you can see but have exactly the same problem as my 1hb and Curious’, lack of drop. In that match he sliced more than he drove the ball. In that last point in the vid below he slices 3 balls before driving it as shown. I’d say throughout the match his slice to drive ration on the bh side is at least 3:1. If he was more comfortable with his bh wouldn’t slice as much.

And everything else about his bh is all there. Just shallow drop, exactly my problem. Actually Curious’ drop is not as bad comparably.

good player... but agree with you that the drop is an issue.

basically too much tension. from the ready position where the tip points to the sky, to the falling into the ISR, the grip pressure should be 1 out of 10.

@Curious you are leaving spin and power on the table because without a relaxed drop you cannot unleash full power. it has nothing to do with cross court or not.. every shot is the same, as long as the relaxed drop is concerned.

 

[10sbeast888]

All this work and practice to just get the ball in? Why not try to make it a weapon. At least when you fall short of that goal it will still be decent. If you fall short of your “keep it in” goal what good is it?

Said another way, you need accel for spin. 1hbh adv is spin and minimizing it wont help.

yup...

the ATP tour average fh spin rate is 2700 rpm; the bh is about 2300.... except all the 1hbh guys average 2700, exactly the same as the fh.

this is indeed the advantage, and we pay a price for that - longer set up time, and not as stable as the 2hbh on the returns.

 

[tendency]

I forgot about all the technique stuff and hit balls with only McEnroe in mind! What does he do? Just turns and gets to the ball and swings low to high through contact. That’s it. Never felt better when I hit backhands.

about time; you're reaching a point where you can start to forget the mechanics and just hit the damn ball where you want it!

 

[zill]

good player... but agree with you that the drop is an issue.

basically too much tension. from the ready position where the tip points to the sky, to the falling into the ISR, the grip pressure should be 1 out of 10.

@Curious you are leaving spin and power on the table because without a relaxed drop you cannot unleash full power. it has nothing to do with cross court or not.. every shot is the same, as long as the relaxed drop is concerned.

I actually think Curious, guy in the vid and definitely myself in the vid below are holding the racquet as loosely as possible so 1 out of 10 but will never get the desired drop because of intrinsic physiological limitations.

 

[Curious]

All this work and practice to just get the ball in? Why not try to make it a weapon. At least when you fall short of that goal it will still be decent. If you fall short of your “keep it in” goal what good is it?

Said another way, you need accel for spin. 1hbh adv is spin and minimizing it wont help.

You’re talking as if I’m tapping balls in. I said earlier.

I’m simply after enough spin, enough pace and definitely enough depth

 

[Curious]

about time; you're reaching a point where you can start to forget the mechanics and just hit the damn ball where you want it!

I want to but as you can see ‘tennis mechanics’ police don’t let me do it!

 

[zill]

I forgot about all the technique stuff and hit balls with only McEnroe in mind! What does he do? Just turns and gets to the ball and swings low to high through contact. That’s it. Never felt better when I hit backhands.

This is the best or near best you will do with the 1hb. The end.

Is it perfect 1hb? No. Do you want a perfect or near perfect bh? If so then switch to a 2hb and you may have a chance at that. May but definitely not with sticking with the 1hb.

 

[10sbeast888]

I actually think Curious, guy in the vid and definitely myself in the vid below are holding the racquet as loosely as possible so 1 out of 10 but will never get the desired drop because of intrinsic physiological limitations.

well the players in this video are both hitting late.

the drop should happen, in sync with the ball drop... so you reach the extreme of the ISR at about the same time as the ball lands.

if you start the process late, then you can't drop to the bottom of the ISR.

and speaking of which I just looked at Curious' video again. he is late also!

 

[Curious]

This is the best or near best you will do with the 1hb. The end.

Is it perfect 1hb? No. Do you want a perfect or near perfect bh? If so then switch to a 2hb and you may have a chance at that. May but definitely not with sticking with the 1hb.

I’m very happy with what I found today simply thanks to this

McEnroe in mind! What does he do? Just turns and gets to the ball and swings low to high through contact. That’s it.

 

[zill]

well the players in this video are both hitting late.

the drop should happen, in sync with the ball drop... so you reach the extreme of the ISR at about the same time as the ball lands.

if you start the process late, then you can't drop to the bottom of the ISR.

and speaking of which I just looked at Curious' video again. he is late also!

The brain is very smart, it wants to make contact with the ball at the right place but knows the body cannot drop adequately and is shallow so it starts the forward swing late factoring in the shallow drop so that the player can make contact at the right spot.

 

[10sbeast888]

try this idea -

the ball comes down, you load and drop.

the ball lands, you reach the bottom of the ISR.

the ball bounces up, you swing up and across.

this keeps you in sync with the ball, and makes the timing easier.

the human brain understands gravity very well, so it can feel the ball drop and the racket drop, IF you let the racket drop mainly driven by gravity.

 

[10sbeast888]

The brain is very smart, it wants to make contact with the ball at the right place but knows the body cannot drop adequately and is shallow so it starts the forward swing late factoring in the shallow drop so that the player can make contact at the right spot.

exactly!

if the motion is late then the brain just commands the arm to shove the racket forward... so not only you get a shallow drop, the weight transfer is awkward too.

 

[tendency]

This is the best or near best you will do with the 1hb. The end.

Is it perfect 1hb? No. Do you want a perfect or near perfect bh? If so then switch to a 2hb and you may have a chance at that. May but definitely not with sticking with the 1hb.

100%. this style fits your temperament and physical predispositions, genetics etc.

 

[Curious]

try this idea -

the ball comes down, you load and drop.

the ball lands, you reach the bottom of the ISR.

the ball bounces up, you swing up and across.

this keeps you in sync with the ball, and makes the timing easier.

the human brain understands gravity very well, so it can feel the ball drop and the racket drop, IF you let the racket drop mainly driven by gravity.

This is good example of paralysis by analysis and will never work. All your brain needs to decide is a swing path low to high through contact. Drop this much, that much, synch with ball doing this or that will confuse it.

 

[10sbeast888]

100%. this style fits your temperament and physical predispositions, genetics etc.

should be able to do much better than this.

mechanically the 1hbh is actually a very easy shot, because

- you never need to worry about the arm disconnecting from the body;
- you never need to worry about the racket face opening up - if you simply relax the hand/wrist.

2 luxuries that even the powerful FH cannot afford.

anybody should be able to hit the **** off this shot, with massive spin likely more rpm than the fh.

for @Curious the immediate improvement will come if he follows the 2 points I just made

- relaxed hand/wrist;
- tracking the ball - come down with the ball before the bounce, and come up with the ball after the bounce.

 

[10sbeast888]

This is good example of paralysis by analysis and will never work. All your brain needs to decide is a swing path low to high through contact. Drop this much, that much, synch with ball doing this or that will confuse it.

now I understand why you never improve much on this shot lol.

this is a good example of you don't know what you don't know

 

[zill]

exactly!

if the motion is late then the brain just commands the arm to shove the racket forward... so not only you get a shallow drop, the weight transfer is awkward too.

The brain commands the late motion. Why? To hit the ball at the right time with proper timing. If you force earlier prep entire shot will be out of sync. And if you force steeper drop then entire shot will also be out of sync and hit a shot that is half as powerful.

 

[Shroud]

You’re talking as if I’m tapping balls in. I said earlier.

Enough is the problem. Enough to extend the point? How about enough to force the point or win the point.

Its like hitting the gym and doing half your max weight. Its kind of pointless in terms of growth.

And mentally its resigned your backhand to be average at best and at worst it makes it so you don’t see the potential and especially the spin potential

Its like that patrick matagloo dude had the vid where the student was all arm on the fh. He had her throw the racquet at the ball and she started to get it…

 

[Curious]

now I understand why you never improve much on this shot lol.

this is a good example of you don't know what you don't know

You talk like a tennis guru. Why don’t you post a video of your tennis strokes to back it up with?

 

[10sbeast888]

The brain commands the late motion. Why? To hit the ball at the right time with proper timing. If you force earlier prep entire shot will be out of sync. And if you force steeper drop then entire shot will also be out of sync and hit a shot that is half as powerful.

that's a band-aid... you have to try this on the court and realize the timing is much easier if the shot comes down and up with the ball.

this is not some exotic idea. the fh should work the same way.

 

[zill]

This is good example of paralysis by analysis and will never work. All your brain needs to decide is a swing path low to high through contact. Drop this much, that much, synch with ball doing this or that will confuse it.

100% and for both us we cannot get adequate drop. The end. Cannot get it, cannot buy it.

 

[10sbeast888]

You talk like a tennis guru. Why don’t you post a video of your tennis strokes to back it up with?

here we go again.. no worries, I travel around and invite people to hit with me.... in time you will see, it's a great shot.

problem is your mind is closed, so nothing will help lol.

 

[Curious]

Enough is the problem. Enough to extend the point? How about enough to force the point or win the point.

Its like hitting the gym and doing half your max weight. Its kind of pointless in terms of growth.

And mentally its resigned your backhand to be average at best and at worst it makes it so you don’t see the potential and especially the spin potential

Its like that patrick matagloo dude had the vid where the student was all arm on the fh. He had her throw the racquet at the ball and she started to get it…

I’ve just found the basic ohbh stroke today. Give me a little time to add things to it.

 

[Curious]

here we go again.. no worries, I travel around and invite people to hit with me.... in time you will see, it's a great shot.

problem is your mind is closed, so nothing will help lol.

Sorry but I won’t take you seriously until I see you hitting tennis balls.

 

[10sbeast888]

I’ve just found the basic ohbh stroke today. Give me a little time to add things to it.

that's fair.

problem is what you 'found' is not the basic 1hbh. a low take back like this will never reach full potential.

1 drill I start people with, when they first learn to hit this shot, is just to push the ball with the thumb on bevel 6.

no unit turn. no turning side ways, no back swing, no leg drive. no nothing.

stand flat footed, square to the ball, just stick your hand out and push bevel 6.

you should be able to sustain a rally indefinitely with this, deep to the baseline.

THAT - is the 'basic 1hbh'.

if you understand what the hand does, then you can build this shot, from the hand, down to the ground.

and without showing a video, I can guarantee you that I can generate more depth and spin, with just the thumb, than your entire body - that is with the way you are hitting right now.

 

[zill]

here we go again.. no worries, I travel around and invite people to hit with me.... in time you will see, it's a great shot.

problem is your mind is closed, so nothing will help lol.

What’s your UTR if I may ask?

 

[Curious]

that's fair.

problem is what you 'found' is not the basic 1hbh. a low take back like this will never reach full potential.

1 drill I start people with, when they first learn to hit this shot, is just to push the ball with the thumb on bevel 6.

no unit turn. no turning side ways, no back swing, no leg drive. no nothing.

stand flat footed, square to the ball, just stick your hand out and push bevel 6.

you should be able to sustain a rally indefinitely with this, deep to the baseline.

THAT - is the 'basic 1hbh'.

if you understand what the hand does, then you can build this shot, from the hand, down to the ground.

and without showing a video, I can guarantee you that I can generate more depth and spin, with just the thumb, than your entire body - that is with the way you are hitting right now.

This is why I’m not taking you seriously until I see a video of you playing tennis. You’re making too many controversial/too unique/ near ‘smartass’ type of claims!

 

[10sbeast888]

What’s your UTR if I may ask?

you are falling into the same trap - which I understand... doesn't make sense to take random advice from the internet lol.

but it will cost you 5 minutes to go out try the idea tomorrow. why not.

in time you guys will see me hit... I guarantee you won't be disappointed lol.

 

[10sbeast888]

This is why I’m not taking you seriously until I see a video of you playing tennis. You’re making too many controversial/too unique/ near ‘smartass’ type of claims!

same answer as I just made.... cost you 5 minutes to try the thumb drill.

I don't care if you take seriously lol..

people with open minds will learn... otherwise they won't.

 

[Curious]

same answer as I just made.... cost you 5 minutes to try the thumb drill.

I don't care if you take seriously lol..

people with open minds will learn... otherwise they won't.

Show me your video. Until then you’re a lighter/ polite version of ballmachineguy!

 

[10sbeast888]

Show me your video. Until then you’re a lighter/ polite version of ballmachineguy!

gee thanks... glad I am more 'polite' than ball machine!

 

[Shroud]

I’ve just found the basic ohbh stroke today. Give me a little time to add things to it.

Huh? This thread is almost 2 years old! You can not be SERIOUS!

 

[Curious]

Huh? This thread is almost 2 years old! You can not be SERIOUS!

Well, I’ve tried a million things to get here!

 

[10sbeast888]

Well, I’ve tried a million things to get here!

well I can understand you hesitate to take random advice..

I saw Shroud's bh.. fundamentally speaking you should listen to him lol... my bh is actually quite similar with a more neutral grip.

yeah it's tough for the internet warriors, especially nowadays good advice is rare to come by as actually not many people know how to teach this shot.

 

[Curious]

well I can understand you hesitate to take random advice..

I saw Shroud's bh.. fundamentally speaking you should listen to him lol... my bh is actually quite similar with a more neutral grip.

yeah it's tough for the internet warriors, especially nowadays good advice is rare to come by as actually not many people know how to teach this shot.

Post a video! It’s easy. If you don’t, I’ll keep wondering why. What reasons could someone have for not posting a video of themselves hitting tennis balls? As if it’s adult content!

 

[10sbeast888]

doesn't cost you anything to try my advice though... next time you play, just throw in the thumb drill for 5 minutes, it will help you understand what the hand does.

 

[Curious]

doesn't cost you anything to try my advice though... next time you play, just throw in the thumb drill for 5 minutes, it will help you understand what the hand does.

Answer the question above. I’m happy with my backhand now.