What are the TIPS, TECHNIQUES for better VOLLEY?

user92626

G.O.A.T.
One guy who observed me playing commented that my problem was lack of split-steps. I swear I could hop and try to reach for the ball but it still feels very awkward, lack of control of hitting and directing the ball. Except for the very easy balls, volleying feels very accidental to me.

I see other guys who are good at volleying do not necessarily split step. Somehow they are very flexible with reaching the ball and crafty with placing it.

Is the volley timing very different from that of ground stroke? What are the concepts, the tips, the preparation that help you volley successfully?
 
Splitstep might aid in getting ready quicker, but it doesn't affect the volley at all.
The volley is a continental grip underspin stroke, not pure slice, but underspin with some forward drive.
The body doesn't need to move forwards, but it helps.
The shoulders don't need to be turned, but it helps.
The feet on forehand volleys don't have to close, but it helps.
The feet on backhand volleys don't have to close, but it helps.
Most important is the hand eye coordination using a conti grip and hitting the ball on a fly.
Don't lean back. Don't retreat, stroke the volley to the open court, stalk the ball, and watch it coming in.
 
Don't lean back. Don't retreat, stroke the volley to the open court, stalk the ball, and watch it coming in.

That's often the problem with people that can't volley consistently.

Take the volley out in front as far as possible. Just block it at first (this will ensure that you aren't swinging). Later as you get more comfortable, you can "punch" it.

The other big thing I see is people not bending their knees to get down to the height of the ball. They will either bend at the waist, or just reach for it. Both recipes for disaster.
 
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Block it with underspin, aim for service line depth, for a bigger margin for error.
Practice volleys from just inside the service line, NOT atop the net. You need low and half volleys besides putaway volleys.
 
The standard volley should be slight underspin but not a downward chop. I too often see beginners violently chopping at the ball. Sort of coming down a gentle slop with the racket is the correct technique.

Use a continental grip and keep the racket out front and take a short back-swing.

Most of the people I play with have terrible volleys because 1) they use eastern forehand or a SW fh grip and 2) they never practice volleys.
 
The body doesn't need to move forwards, but it helps.
The shoulders don't need to be turned, but it helps.
The feet on forehand volleys don't have to close, but it helps.

Just block it at first (this will ensure that you aren't swinging). Later as you get more comfortable, you can "punch" it.

This is what I thought I did. Mainly, stand feet slightly apart, for fast incoming ball without much time, all you could do is extend the hand to simply block, ie minimal or no feet, shoulder moving, I tend to botch the shot. The ball either contacts off-center, drop, or bounce off in an unpredictable direction.

I notice it helps somewhat when I get frustrated and totally committed to moving aggressively, and hitting, slamming-pancaking the ball hard. It's a bit unorthodox but the kamikaze style of poaching/volley, when the ball lands in, is unreturnable by opponents!
 
The standard volley should be slight underspin but not a downward chop. I too often see beginners violently chopping at the ball. Sort of coming down a gentle slop with the racket is the correct technique.

Use a continental grip and keep the racket out front and take a short back-swing.

Most of the people I play with have terrible volleys because 1) they use eastern forehand or a SW fh grip and 2) they never practice volleys.

The mechanic of the volley is understood as I evidently could volley in practice fairly well. It feels easy when it's understood that both guys hit directly to each other.

For some reason in game I completely miss the timing or the trigger to start the mechanic.
 
The mechanic of the volley is understood as I evidently could volley in practice fairly well. It feels easy when it's understood that both guys hit directly to each other.

For some reason in game I completely miss the timing or the trigger to start the mechanic.

If you can do OK in practice then you need to spend more time doing volley games in practice that are more match like. I saw Leander Paes doing this in practice. The baseline player would have to hit cross court and the volleyer would have to come in and they'd play the point out to 10.
 
Open to (almost) square to open

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/sets/72157650082654467/

Every volley that I've looked at (that could be slowed down enough to see and wasn't just a handcuffed block) shows the racket head behind the players head on the backswing, very much open, and the racket hand above where it's going to be at contact and higher still than it's going to be on the follow through (unless it's a very low ball). The racket face is then squared up to almost vertical at contact (opening more the lower the ball), and then opened back up again after contact. I don't know precisely when this "re-opening" starts relative to the time of contact. My best guess, currently, is that this re-opening is the result of the prevention of the continued "closing" of the racket face from its position in the backswing to it's near vertical position. However, when I'm volleying a low ball with heavy slice or when hitting a drop volley, I actually do feel like I'm opening the racket face during the time that I'm contacting the ball - almost to the point that I feel like I'm brushing up the *front* of the ball. Of course, on the low ball, I'm not initially contacting the ball with nearly as "vertical" a racket face. Here's some freezed frames of forehand volleys (mostly high balls). https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/sets/72157647578784403/

Interestingly, as I've tried to share any of this with teaching pros, I'm continually rebuffed as being a crank. Maybe I just ain't lookin real good and careful enough at all these pitchers. :)
 
You have to commit. Both in the micro and the macro.

You can play high level singles without a netgame. You don't have to volley except very easy put away shots for the most part.

However, if you want to volley, you have to do it a lot. A LOT. It helps to remove other options as well. Play entire practice sets or games with a continental grip. Follow the volley to cut off angles. Use your anticipation. Volley with your feet. Soft hands.

Experience is important in net play. You can't think your way through a volley like you can a groundstroke. You have to hone your instincts and that takes time on court.
 
For some reason in game I completely miss the timing or the trigger to start the mechanic.

Understanding the mechanics of decent volleys is a big help, but volleys happen with much less prep time than typical ground strokes during match play. We can actually think our way through our strokes just a little bit during a point, but not up at the net. On game day, volleys demand much more unconscious movement, so that means we need to hit lots of them at match speed to ingrain good technique.

Watching the Bryans or any other decent net players can be a spectacular lesson in the decent footwork employed for solid volleys. Even when a capable doubles partner doesn't hit a shot, that player is typically setting up to move onto the ball every time an opponent hits a shot (move forward into a simple split step). This constant setting up can make you feel hyperactive in a doubles setting when you're not even hitting a shot, but it's a huge difference maker in terms of being set to volley well when the ball does come your way.

That mild forward momentum needs to already be happening when the ball is hit to a net player so that all he/she has left to do is mostly turn to either side and get the racquet behind the ball. You may benefit from the image of leading with your left shoulder on forehand volleys or your right shoulder with backhand volleys (if you're a righty). Lean through the volley - that's a primary energy source for this shot. Unless we're hitting a pure reaction volley, this forward lean should include a side-step generally toward the net (it might be diagonally toward the net).

A great way to encourage this footwork is to try hitting some volleys against only moderately paced incoming balls while holding your racquet up at the top of the grip - maybe one or two fingers will be up on the throat, but not your entire hand. This reduces a lot of the potential to be too wristy with these practice volleys and to drive them well, you ought to feel more deliberate with your footwork and that forward lean/side-step I described above.

If you're doing this right, you should be moving toward the net every time you hit a volley. After hitting maybe two or three volleys in a row, you'll likely need to back up and reset yourself so that you have enough space to make another deliberate forward move without leaning/stepping onto the net.
 
Must use conti grip;
Keep your hands in front of you, as if you were going to catch the ball;
Racket head above your hands;
Accelerate the racket forward (not down);
Get a lesson from someone who volleys well.
 
Accelerate the racket forward (not down);

Kinda depends on what kind of spin is on the ball and the height and pace of the incoming ball. Cherry-picked some inputs for the Shot Maker tool at http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/trajectory_maker.cgi#output and posted the results here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/16679770894/in/set-72157650697596641

Made the contact at five feet above the ground, 14 feet from the net, the ball is going 60 mph since it hasn't bounced, yet, it's dipping downward at 10 degrees because there's 4000 rpm of topspin on the incoming ball. Contact is made with a racket face opened 2 degrees, and the racket is swung horizontally (0 degrees) with the red ball, but downward 30 degrees with the yellow ball.
 
Kinda depends on what kind of spin is on the ball and the height and pace of the incoming ball. Cherry-picked some inputs for the Shot Maker tool at http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/trajectory_maker.cgi#output and posted the results here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/16679770894/in/set-72157650697596641

Made the contact at five feet above the ground, 14 feet from the net, the ball is going 60 mph since it hasn't bounced, yet, it's dipping downward at 10 degrees because there's 4000 rpm of topspin on the incoming ball. Contact is made with a racket face opened 2 degrees, and the racket is swung horizontally (0 degrees) with the red ball, but downward 30 degrees with the yellow ball.
Tried changing the contact height to 4 feet for the red ball, but it still flew long. Then tried changing the contact height for the red ball to 3 feet. . .
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/17300498082/in/set-72157650697596641
 
You have no say over the contact height.
Key is depth, on high volleys, you can hit slightly harder.
On low volleys, you need to clear the net, but hit hard enough to create depth.
Key is depth of volley, regardless of contact height.
 
You have to commit. Both in the micro and the macro.

You can play high level singles without a netgame. You don't have to volley except very easy put away shots for the most part.

However, if you want to volley, you have to do it a lot. A LOT. It helps to remove other options as well. Play entire practice sets or games with a continental grip. Follow the volley to cut off angles. Use your anticipation. Volley with your feet. Soft hands.

Experience is important in net play. You can't think your way through a volley like you can a groundstroke. You have to hone your instincts and that takes time on court.


This one reiterates my observation. I tried to apply the same learning concept as the ground stroke but it didn't work that well. :)

Understanding the mechanics of decent volleys is a big help, but volleys happen with much less prep time than typical ground strokes during match play. We can actually think our way through our strokes just a little bit during a point, but not up at the net. On game day, volleys demand much more unconscious movement, so that means we need to hit lots of them at match speed to ingrain good technique.

Watching the Bryans or any other decent net players can be a spectacular lesson in the decent footwork employed for solid volleys. Even when a capable doubles partner doesn't hit a shot, that player is typically setting up to move onto the ball every time an opponent hits a shot (move forward into a simple split step). This constant setting up can make you feel hyperactive in a doubles setting when you're not even hitting a shot, but it's a huge difference maker in terms of being set to volley well when the ball does come your way.

That mild forward momentum needs to already be happening when the ball is hit to a net player so that all he/she has left to do is mostly turn to either side and get the racquet behind the ball. You may benefit from the image of leading with your left shoulder on forehand volleys or your right shoulder with backhand volleys (if you're a righty). Lean through the volley - that's a primary energy source for this shot. Unless we're hitting a pure reaction volley, this forward lean should include a side-step generally toward the net (it might be diagonally toward the net).

A great way to encourage this footwork is to try hitting some volleys against only moderately paced incoming balls while holding your racquet up at the top of the grip - maybe one or two fingers will be up on the throat, but not your entire hand. This reduces a lot of the potential to be too wristy with these practice volleys and to drive them well, you ought to feel more deliberate with your footwork and that forward lean/side-step I described above.

If you're doing this right, you should be moving toward the net every time you hit a volley. After hitting maybe two or three volleys in a row, you'll likely need to back up and reset yourself so that you have enough space to make another deliberate forward move without leaning/stepping onto the net.
This is a lot to digest. Often time I feel I don't really volley. I simply "crash" the net and slam on the ball hard!!! I think I rush to get out of volleying because of no confidence.

Thanks.
 
Personally, watching the ball coming off the opponent's racket and keeping my base wide to stay down and low. You not only have less time to react, but your opponent is responding to your ball much faster than during baseline rally.

Match situation is completely different from the rally. Because you will hit volleys on the move, so staying balanced is very important not to lose the track of the ball and make a clean contact.
 
Personally, watching the ball coming off the opponent's racket and keeping my base wide to stay down and low. You not only have less time to react, but your opponent is responding to your ball much faster than during baseline rally.

Match situation is completely different from the rally. Because you will hit volleys on the move, so staying balanced is very important not to lose the track of the ball and make a clean contact.

So, do you recommend doing that or not? Wide base, staying down.. That's what I'm doing and I feel very slow and often watch the ball sail closely by.
 
Ready position the same as for 3rd basemen, shortstops, and 2nd basemen, wide feet, low center of gravity, reacting to every ball.
 
I like this video a lot. He's talking about not "stomping" but if you listen to him, he's really just saying to be balanced and flow through the ball. When you say that you "crash" the net, I feel like that is your way of "flowing" and being balanced, as opposed to being stationary and slow. I think your body is probably doing the right thing in those instances, but it sounds like it's a little reckless. Watch this video and try to think about how you can flow through the shot and still maintain control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEZfGqBXG6k
 
So, do you recommend doing that or not? Wide base, staying down.. That's what I'm doing and I feel very slow and often watch the ball sail closely by.

You definitely want low center of gravity where you have a wide base (wider than your shoulder width), the key is to "sit on your butt" so that your hips and glutes are engaged. If your hips and glutes are not engaged, your quad is going to feel the burn.

Listen to what Tipsaravic says at the beginning of this clip(https://youtu.be/W8c5LQLPt68), and watch the base of the player.

There could be different reasons for "feeling slow". It could be that your split step timing is off - which means you are not seeing the ball coming off your opponent's racket -, and you are not moving "in time" rather than moving "slow".
 
I am getting to this point, too. I play a guy every week and 90% I go to the net, he hits a clean passing shot that lands within 1 ft. of the line. Often this is off a shot that he had to run to get. Normally I will just sit there and watch it go by me like an idiot. Occasionally I will get a racquet on it and it will thud into the net, once in awhile it is a sitter and I can put it away. But it seems like anytime I actually have to react and move my feet, it's out of my reach.
 
Is the volley timing very different from that of ground stroke? What are the concepts, the tips, the preparation that help you volley successfully?

You should keep in mind the purpose of the split-step. A slight hop stops your body so you can take a fraction of a second to look at the opponent's swing and figure out where the ball is going. You should hop right before the opponent starts swinging so you watch at least a portion of the swing and move from the split step in the predicted direction of the ball. It takes some practice to get used to the timing of the split-step. For example, I serve and volley a lot, and I hop when my serve bounces because there is very little time between the serve bounce and the return of serve. If I am hitting a slice approach shot, the split step is right before the opponent swings, which is well after the initial bounce because the ball is moving slowly.

With ground strokes, you should be split stepping and moving early, but most rec. players are slow to prepare and move to the ball. With a volley, this delay will cost you the point.

Another thing to consider is that you should move that diagonally forward out of the split step and toward the opponent when you volley. When you move forward, you cut down the passing angles and you also power the volley so less/no swing is needed. I like to think of the volley is an relatively easy stroke - hold out the racquet and move your body until the racquet head is in the path of the ball.
 
I am not the best volleyer - but its getting better. So here are some of my thoughts.

1) Don't be fooled - if you really want to stick your volley's there is some swing. The swing is mostly about laying the wrist back - not bringing your whole arm back. It's like a mini slice shot.

2) blocking the ball is overrated - yes against a good hard shot getting the racquet out in front and just blocking the ball might be enough. But you need to learn to STICK your volleys. It's simply not good enough - even at the 3.0 - 4.0 level to get the volley's back - they need some pace, some spin and good angle.

3) Don't get your arms so stiff out in front of you - keep some bend in your arms. This allow them to straighten a bit and put some stick on your volley's.


4) Footwork. Yes the pros occasionally not have time for much of a split. As a rec player we want to be splitting and stepping forward while we make contact. Coaches are big on the stepping across - and certainly that works. But even when the ball is coming right too you - step into it.

5) the racquet face does not need to be that open at contact. Even though you lay the wrist back on harder volleys - at contact the racquet is just slightly open on most shots.
(Mntblock was big in illustrating this).

6) Volley instruction IMHO sucks compared to the other strokes. I feel like most pros haven't analyzed what they are really doing with it - and if you go out and follow their instructions to the t you will even float everything a mile long or hit the ball with zero power..

I recommend tennis oxygen and feel tennis as the two semi decent volley instructors out there. I like tennis oxygen better - because he describes how to really stick your volley which is what you need for doubles games. But if your volley is just hideous then feel tennis is fine.
 
Get yourself updated

I am not the best volleyer - but its getting better. So here are some of my thoughts.

1) Don't be fooled - if you really want to stick your volley's there is some swing. The swing is mostly about laying the wrist back - not bringing your whole arm back. It's like a mini slice shot.

2) blocking the ball is overrated - yes against a good hard shot getting the racquet out in front and just blocking the ball might be enough. But you need to learn to STICK your volleys. It's simply not good enough - even at the 3.0 - 4.0 level to get the volley's back - they need some pace, some spin and good angle.

3) Don't get your arms so stiff out in front of you - keep some bend in your arms. This allow them to straighten a bit and put some stick on your volley's.


4) Footwork. Yes the pros occasionally not have time for much of a split. As a rec player we want to be splitting and stepping forward while we make contact. Coaches are big on the stepping across - and certainly that works. But even when the ball is coming right too you - step into it.

5) the racquet face does not need to be that open at contact. Even though you lay the wrist back on harder volleys - at contact the racquet is just slightly open on most shots.
(Mntblock was big in illustrating this).

6) Volley instruction IMHO sucks compared to the other strokes. I feel like most pros haven't analyzed what they are really doing with it - and if you go out and follow their instructions to the t you will even float everything a mile long or hit the ball with zero power..

I recommend tennis oxygen and feel tennis as the two semi decent volley instructors out there. I like tennis oxygen better - because he describes how to really stick your volley which is what you need for doubles games. But if your volley is just hideous then feel tennis is fine.
http://notice.tennisoxygen.com/
 
Agree with Nellie - you might have to split earlier then normal on the volley.. If you do that it still feels a lot better then not splitting. The key after that is to be moving forward some at contact the the volley. Its a little different then the groundstroke where you have stepped forward and the racquet is following. Tennis oxygen guy explains this well..

And yeah his videos still exist. Check youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tSrHw-VvPY
 
You should keep in mind the purpose of the split-step. A slight hop stops your body so you can take a fraction of a second to look at the opponent's swing and figure out where the ball is going. You should hop right before the opponent starts swinging so you watch at least a portion of the swing and move from the split step in the predicted direction of the ball. It takes some practice to get used to the timing of the split-step. For example, I serve and volley a lot, and I hop when my serve bounces because there is very little time between the serve bounce and the return of serve. If I am hitting a slice approach shot, the split step is right before the opponent swings, which is well after the initial bounce because the ball is moving slowly.

With ground strokes, you should be split stepping and moving early, but most rec. players are slow to prepare and move to the ball. With a volley, this delay will cost you the point.

Another thing to consider is that you should move that diagonally forward out of the split step and toward the opponent when you volley. When you move forward, you cut down the passing angles and you also power the volley so less/no swing is needed. I like to think of the volley is an relatively easy stroke - hold out the racquet and move your body until the racquet head is in the path of the ball.

I use the split steps mainly for timing and keeping myself moving. Something about being at the net, moving, guessing, whatever makes seeing the ball to get it contacted solidly very difficult! Most of my challenge is framing the ball or hitting it in a weird way.

I like your statement highlighted in blue a lot.
 
I am not the best volleyer - but its getting better. So here are some of my thoughts.

1) Don't be fooled - if you really want to stick your volley's there is some swing. The swing is mostly about laying the wrist back - not bringing your whole arm back. It's like a mini slice shot.

2) blocking the ball is overrated - yes against a good hard shot getting the racquet out in front and just blocking the ball might be enough. But you need to learn to STICK your volleys. It's simply not good enough - even at the 3.0 - 4.0 level to get the volley's back - they need some pace, some spin and good angle.

3) Don't get your arms so stiff out in front of you - keep some bend in your arms. This allow them to straighten a bit and put some stick on your volley's.


4) Footwork. Yes the pros occasionally not have time for much of a split. As a rec player we want to be splitting and stepping forward while we make contact. Coaches are big on the stepping across - and certainly that works. But even when the ball is coming right too you - step into it.

5) the racquet face does not need to be that open at contact. Even though you lay the wrist back on harder volleys - at contact the racquet is just slightly open on most shots.
(Mntblock was big in illustrating this).

6) Volley instruction IMHO sucks compared to the other strokes. I feel like most pros haven't analyzed what they are really doing with it - and if you go out and follow their instructions to the t you will even float everything a mile long or hit the ball with zero power..

I recommend tennis oxygen and feel tennis as the two semi decent volley instructors out there. I like tennis oxygen better - because he describes how to really stick your volley which is what you need for doubles games. But if your volley is just hideous then feel tennis is fine.


#3 & #1) I have a friend who swears by keeping the wrist and the forearm decisively fix and firm, and he volleys quite well. I'm in the camp that likes to do some movement with the wrist, like you said, laying it back.

I'm confused about which direction to take!

I get your other points but not #5. In my mind and action if I can get my racket face open that feels a split second early before the contact, ie that waiting feeling, I tend to get good results!
 
I get your other points but not #5. In my mind and action if I can get my racket face open that feels a split second early before the contact, ie that waiting feeling, I tend to get good results!

In addition to noting that the racket face is nearly vertical for most (non-low) volleys, I've also pointed out that the racket face opens, again, just after contact. For me, this often feels like I've hit the volley with an open face. But, when I've looked at it on video, it looks just like all the other screen shots I've done - open to square to open (after contact). https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/sets/72157647578784403/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/sets/72157650082654467/ I can't explain it, but see that all good volleyers do it. On high volleys, rather than re-opening the face after contact, sometimes the face just remains vertical with some continuation of the swing on a horizontal plane. Don't know if *teaching* it that way would make a difference in how well players could learn to volley, but strikes me as being worth a try. Have still never heard of a pro teaching it that way.
 
I feel like a backboard is great for working on volleys. Up very close you can work on rapid reaction; also, by getting very close it won't be possible to take too much of a swing because you just won't have enough time before the ball comes back.

Then, by standing back a bit, you can work on the split-step and technique more
 
I like it - except that it still doesn't show that the face squares up at contact. It matters.

kb

That's a super quick video that we can't see the racket face open at contact but it is. How else can the ball get hit and controlled forward?

I don't understand your point about "the racket face opens, again, just after contact." After contact the racket head is out of position so it faces wherever it feels natural. I wouldn't force the follow through.

It's so strange that as easy I learned the FH, including the square face/ball contact as difficult I find the volley. It's probably the ultra quick timing and the requirement of some prediction that screws me up.
 
That's a super quick video that we can't see the racket face open at contact but it is. How else can the ball get hit and controlled forward?

I don't understand your point about "the racket face opens, again, just after contact." After contact the racket head is out of position so it faces wherever it feels natural. I wouldn't force the follow through.

It's so strange that as easy I learned the FH, including the square face/ball contact as difficult I find the volley. It's probably the ultra quick timing and the requirement of some prediction that screws me up.

Did you look at the screen shots I posted? I also don't understand about the racket face opening just after contact, but it happens - over and over and over again with every good volley I've seen (other than some really high ones). I've also posted some screen shots amongst them (and at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/sets/72157650697596641/ ) of the "Shot Maker Tool" showing what happens if the face is left open on volleys (and slices). It turns out that what it "feels" like we're doing ain't what actually happens. Might even be that that is why you (and many others) struggle to learn to volley well. It also matters (a lot) what kind of spin is on the incoming ball - far more than what the average player understands.
 
Just after contact, of course, most volleyer's have the racket face open up a bit.
Emphasis is on underspin, so opening the racketface.
The ball has some momentum, the player trying to keep the face open, the ball open's the face more from contact.
 
Yes I did, all of them. I tried to download them to look at later but couldn't.

The pple in the photos make it look easy!

Hmmm. There's a downwardly pointing arrow on the lower right of the screen where my pics are on Flickr. Clicking on that should allow one to download the size pic desired.

But, I'd think you'd get more out of googling the type of shot you want in slomo and watch them carefully, pausing them at appropriate times as I have.

The secret, I think, to making it look easy is doing a *whole* lot of practicing. :-)
 
Hey mnt,

Look at this Video of Federer volleying. Effortless! He doesn't look very crazy about all the minute details (though probably all secondary to him now). The one thing I notice that stands out so much is the timing. He's able to do everything before the ball reaches the racket.

To get the ball pinned down, do you see that he always start the racket ABOVE the ball?

https://youtu.be/XGO07iQsTc4?t=28
 
Hey mnt,

Look at this Video of Federer volleying. Effortless! He doesn't look very crazy about all the minute details (though probably all secondary to him now). The one thing I notice that stands out so much is the timing. He's able to do everything before the ball reaches the racket.

To get the ball pinned down, do you see that he always starts the racket ABOVE the ball?

https://youtu.be/XGO07iQsTc4?t=28

A true pleasure to watch, eh? :) Too bad it wasn't filmed at high speed.

I'm pretty sure that none of us can hit very good tennis shots if we don't do everything before the ball reaches the racket. Roger has hit so many of every kind of shot that he doesn't have to think at all about what to do in any given situation. I'm sure that he has at least a half dozen options for shots in every situation. For example, he gets a net cord and immediately pops a mini, inside-out, backhand overhead. It hurt my wrist just to think about it. :)

With the face of the racket often changing orientations during tennis strokes, I'm inclined to look at the path of the racket *hand* to help judge what the "swing path" is - especially if there is no "door knob turning" going on. Freeze framing this video yields a blurred racket head, but if you just compare his "hand height" before, during, and after contact, I think you'll see that it gets lower all along, making it a downward swing path on most all those volleys. If you could see it, I'd bet that you'd also find that the racket face is nearly vertical at contact on most all the shots, with the exception being that it would be a bit more open on the low ones and the droppers. It will essentially *never* be "closed" (though I do wonder about that mini backhand overhead).

With the incoming balls having topspin on them, he needs a more downward swing path than he would with flat or underspun balls in order to keep the ball from floating long. Note, also, that nearly all those shots are hit with underspin. He's pretty good. :)

kb
 
Federer backhand volley sequence

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/17454371325/in/album-72157650197962313/ Found another video of some Federer volleys at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mllaCYJfpcg. I would describe things a bit differently than Jorge, though he *does*, in one of the examples, show a volley situation in which the racket face angle doesn't change much on the way "down". I find this also when a player is dealing with a ball with a lot of topspin coming in and needing to slice a backhand groundstroke. This stroke will also have a more steeply "downward" path than usual.
 
Did you look at the screen shots I posted? I also don't understand about the racket face opening just after contact, but it happens - over and over and over again with every good volley I've seen (other than some really high ones). I've also posted some screen shots amongst them (and at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mental...7650697596641/ ) of the "Shot Maker Tool" showing what happens if the face is left open on volleys (and slices). It turns out that what it "feels" like we're doing ain't what actually happens. Might even be that that is why you (and many others) struggle to learn to volley well. It also matters (a lot) what kind of spin is on the incoming ball - far more than what the average player understands.

I think we can clear up part of this mystery - racquet opens when ball hits top of racquet - thus racquet face gets pushed back. The exact opposite happens on forehand topspin groundstrokes.

On forehands you see the same racquet face change - to even a far greater extent in the forehand..

Where someone like fed starts his swing entirely closed - and at contact the racquet face is somewhat close to vertical (maybe 5-10%) closed. My feeling is volley is somewhat similiar - except it naturally starts more open because of the wrist layback.. so its more like slightly open - or you can start very open if you really want to smack it hard - to somewhat open - to open again (assuming its not a really high volley)..

The Ken Flach video is pretty good for understanding how to really stick your volley's too - but also he illustrates how you really hit some different volleys.. Which I am sure most people have already seen.
 
I think we can clear up part of this mystery - racquet opens when ball hits top of racquet - thus racquet face gets pushed back. The exact opposite happens on forehand topspin groundstrokes.

On forehands you see the same racquet face change - to even a far greater extent in the forehand..

Where someone like fed starts his swing entirely closed - and at contact the racquet face is somewhat close to vertical (maybe 5-10%) closed. My feeling is volley is somewhat similiar - except it naturally starts more open because of the wrist layback.. so its more like slightly open - or you can start very open if you really want to smack it hard - to somewhat open - to open again (assuming its not a really high volley)..

The Ken Flach video is pretty good for understanding how to really stick your volley's too - but also he illustrates how you really hit some different volleys.. Which I am sure most people have already seen.
The Flach volley video is excellent, but he doesn't address the racket face angle changes.

Can't buy your "ball changing the face angle" theory, though. I do understand how it *can* change the face angle temporarily in some particular instances, but I don't think that explains the open to square(ish) to open (or not closed on many high ones) pattern of most all volleys.

kb
 

well you might not 'buy' it but it's very clear in this video - the ball is pushing the racquet back after the collision. This is extremely easy to see on the super slow motion shots on the backhand side..

Like I said you see the same kind of thing on most forehand shots. This is why coaches 'get away' with teaching the volley has a kind of 'keep the plane the same' kinda shot. You don't have to worry about adjusting to open the face more after contact - just keep reasonable grip tightness/tension and it will happen.
 
well you might not 'buy' it but it's very clear in this video - the ball is pushing the racquet back after the collision. This is extremely easy to see on the super slow motion shots on the backhand side..

Like I said you see the same kind of thing on most forehand shots. This is why coaches 'get away' with teaching the volley has a kind of 'keep the plane the same' kinda shot. You don't have to worry about adjusting to open the face more after contact - just keep reasonable grip tightness/tension and it will happen.

OK. I thought you were talking about the "twisting" of the racket face on off-center hits. I *have* noticed in super slo-mo's that the racket face can sometimes actually temporarily go back in the opposite direction. It's a pretty fascinating phenomenon.

But, I can't buy that as the reason that the racket face doesn't continue to "close", as plenty of poor volleyers *do* continue to close the face after contact. And, the racket *does* continue to go forward (at whatever racket face angle) after the contact, whatever the skill of the volleyer, unless it's one of those "lose the collision" deals.
 
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