What can Tim Henman do to beat Roger Federer again?

[Goenitz_196]

Okay, I know at the current moment it seems no-one is ever going to beat Federer. But I think Henman at his best is one of the very few players on tour who actually has a good chance of beating Roger, and their head-to-head records show that Henman has a 6-3 lead over Roger. Of course Roger has gotten even better now and has worked out how to beat Henman (Roger said himself he had to do that after he lost to Henman at the 2004 Rotterdam QFs).

Roger has won his last two meetings with Henman which strongly underlines the fact that Henman, along with Hewitt, Agassi, and Nalbandian, has become yet another figure in his back pocket.

On a hard court and especially a grass court, it seems that it'll take some sort of a miracle performance to beat Federer. Only Marat Safin has achived this miracle earlier, and what a performance required from Safin to be able to do so.

So onto the main objective of this topic - what do you think Henman can do to beat Federer? I've watched Federer a lot, and it really does seem that nowadays he can break anyone's serve at will. Anyone who gets into a rally with Roger you think 'it's his point'. With the exception of Marat Safin and maybe Ivan Ljubcic, baseliners are simply getting taken apart by Federer time and time again very easily. And we all know that Henman isn't known to have an awesome baseline game, so if he rallies with Federer he'll get smashed big time through a barrage of Federer winners and a barrage of his own errors.

So basically I think what Henman has to do is play his chip/forehand & charge game, you know rally with Federer for about 3 - 8 strokes before going agressive by:

- backhand chipping into a corner & charging into the net
- delivering some big forehands into corners & charging into the net
- and of course he must get his damn 1st serves in...which everyone knows Henman is awful at it...

I say above 3-8 strokes - not too many because as everyone knows what happens when you give Federer time. Roger tends to rally a bit first before he goes for the his winners (basically setting it up), so that's why Henman cannot give him time, because Henman just cannot win by rallying too much.

As said above, Henman will need to serve REALLY well, and his serve is always what I worry most about him. I mean his 2nd serve basically hands the opponent the ball on a damn plate....

What's other's takes on this? Or is Henman simply gone (like everyone else bar Safin)?

 

[Honestlybad]

I don't think he has much of a chance but...

He could take a little off off his first serve to get a higher %. Try to surprise Roger, variety is always preferable to pure power. Be consistent, stick to s&v and stay focused, make federer win every point, don't give them away by making errors. And of course take every opportunity to come to the net.

 

[arodnadal]

how do u guys think dent would do against federer

 

[supersmash]

In my opinion, Dent has a better S&V game than Henman. He also has the better serve. But still, being a Federer fan, I think you guys know where I'm going with this.

 

[Goenitz_196]

He could take a little off off his first serve to get a higher %. Try to surprise Roger, variety is always preferable to pure power. Be consistent, stick to s&v and stay focused, make federer win every point, don't give them away by making errors. And of course take every opportunity to come to the net.

His former coach told him to use that tactic 2 years ago and personally I thought it worked well, he was getting really high percentages of 80% and over, and it was more accurate too. Surprised he has dropped that tactic, because nowadays he seems to rely on his 2nd serve. There's no doubt that Paul Annacoe (his current coach) has tried to make him to be more like Sampras by telling him to go for his 1st and 2nd serves, but Henman just cannot naturally serve like Pete, and I think it's a bad idea.

 

[splink779]

Dent is gonna surprise the world and beat federer in the semifinal

 

[Goenitz_196]

In my opinion, Dent has a better S&V game than Henman. He also has the better serve.

Well any serve & volleyer with a big serve will no doubt have loads of easy volleys to put away. Henman doesn't, so its still pretty amazing to see him doing so well as a serve & volleyer in today's standards.

 

[Honestlybad]

There's no doubt that Paul Annacoe (his current coach) has tried to make him to be more like Sampras by telling him to go for his 1st and 2nd serves, but Henman just cannot naturally serve like Pete, and I think it's a bad idea.

Was this before or after he hurt his shoulder? I'm thinking that this could be the reason.

 

[Goenitz_196]

Was this before or after he hurt his shoulder? I'm thinking that this could be the reason.

I'm not sure myself, but it may be before he hurt his shoulder...I don't think his shoulder had anything to do with it...I do remember his coach reconising the fact that Henman aren't good with power serves, so instead told him to get his 1st serves in using slightly less power than his full power serve. I could be totally wrong though, so correct me if I am.

 

[Honestlybad]

Sometimes when you try to "muscle" your serve to add some power it is easy to injure yourself. If that is what Annacoe had Henman do, it might have caused his shoulder problems. He should have a serve that sets him up for a volley, not one that is an outright winner because he just doesn't have that kind of power.

 

[Goenitz_196]

Sometimes when you try to "muscle" your serve to add some power it is easy to injure yourself. If that is what Annacoe had Henman do, it might have caused his shoulder problems. He should have a serve that sets him up for a volley, not one that is an outright winner because he just doesn't have that kind of power.

Exactly, that's why I think it was a bad thing for Henman to drop the high % 1st serve tactic, because his 2nd serve really does hand the opponent the ball on a plate. Lleyton Hewitt certainly knows this...lol

 

[MonkeyPox]

I love watching Dent, but for a big strong looking guy he is a mess of injuries. He reminds me of Phillipousis in that way. Great potential though, not sure he has it mentally, but definitely has the right style to beat Federer.

Tim is much smoother than Dent, but lacks some of the fire power. He also doesn't choke as much as Dent, but also doesn't seem to be able to fire himself up either. Love to watch him play though. My favorite on the men's tour at this point. On the right day, he can take Roger. Just has to be a weak day for Roger, and he has them on rare occasion.

 

[gustavo33]

tim has game to beat anyone.. but the courts on miami are a bit slow..

 

[Goenitz_196]

tim has game to beat anyone...

Lucky 9th time against Lleyton Hewitt in the future then?

 

[tennisnoob]

Henman just doesn't have enuf sting in his first serve to beat Fed, the only thing he's able to do is to keep rushing the net at every given opportunity to keep the pressure on Fed to hit good passes. Dent defiitely has a better serve than Henman but would probably have to work more on his consistency and his groundstrokes, notably would be good if he can try hitting more b/h drives instead of slices all the time.

 

[Goenitz_196]

Well to be honest Henman doesn't have much sting on his shots either, bar maybe his forehand, which is quite good when he's using it well. His backhand drive is pretty weak though. Henman's strongest point is his net game without a doubt, and he should use that as much as he can.

It's a shame because what lets Tim down the most is his serve. And the most dissappointing thing is the fact that he's 6'1" - potentially a height that allows him to have a serve which could be much, much better than the one he has now. The same situation can be applied with Sjeng Schalken - a massive guy of 6'4", but with a 1st serve of a girl. Sebastien Grosjean is only 5'9" and he has a better 1st serve than the both of them.

Pete Sampras was 6'1" and we all can say his serve wasn't too bad. If only Henman bulked up and focused more into his serve. Easier said than done of course but hey.

 

[35ft6]

Taking a bit off his first serve to get the percentage up can't hurt, but more importantly I think Henman just needs to attack relentlessly and courageously, and hope that Federer is having the kind of day he had against Ancic. He was shanking balls all over the place during that match. Henman has the type of game that could suffocate Federer if he's having an off day.

 

[johnmcc516]

I fully expect Roger to win this one. If Roger makes a lot of unforced errors, and Henman can play aggressive with the s&v. He has a chance. The score is 0-0

 

[Feña14]

I actually think that Henman has a good chance today, So does Henman.

He rushes Federer alot and can cause problems. If Federer plays like he has all week then I think an upset could happen.

As for the serve, it did get alot worse when he had problems with his shoulder he used to be able to hit 130+ consistently but now he relies more on percentage and placement.

It's also on a slow court, we all know what Tim can do a slow court (RG)

Should be a good match whatever the result, I can't wait.

 

[johnmcc516]

I actually think that Henman has a good chance today, So does Henman.

??????????

 

[FalconX]

The only way to beat Roger is if you if you mess with his timing. Roger definitely doesn't like being rushed. There are two ways to rush him. 1 presistent power 2 net play
With power it really takes an unhuman effort like Safins at the Australian to beat him. Roddick wasn't able to hit the ball any where as hard and accurately as he did in that first set of Wimbledon final in the remaining sets. The safin match was definitely like a box match. Marat kept throwing huge punches at Roger, with the killer punch being that backhand until finally in that fifth set it looked like roger didn't have the legs to escape them. One the shots that visibly bothers Roger is the down the line backhand and if you look at the players who have beaten him in past except Henman they all had good down the line backhands. Hewitt no longer has that shot for whatever reason, agassi doesn't hit it as effectively as he used to. Nalbandian arguably has the best backhand down the line shot in mens tennis but he's been out of form for a while. Safin's the only who's got that shot and he's the only one who's beaten him recently.

With volleys we still have to see how roger fairs against someone who comes in on everything like Dent. For Henman I would definitely recommand that he chips to Rogers backhand before coming to the net. On the forehand side roger can just pass him all day long. Bottem line is that you have to make him Rush.

 

[Feña14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4394447.stm

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Henman confident of Federer shock

British number one Tim Henman insists he can upset all-conquering world number one Roger Federer when they meet in Thursday's Nasdaq-100 quarter-final.


Henman, due on court at 2100 BST, has a 6-3 record against the Swiss ace, but Federer has won the last two matches.

"There are plenty of guys with far better groundstrokes than me and he dominates them," Henman said. "When I take his time away I think it gives him far less opportunity to show the repertoire of shots he has got."

Federer, who had to go to three sets in the two previous rounds, is aware than Henman can provide problems for him.
"Tim and I are good buddies, we get along well," the 23-year-old said.

"He gives you a tough match because he keeps coming at you. I've lost to him several times and I expect a tough match."



Henman admitted that a totally gung-ho attitude would not be advisable against a player of Federer's calibre.

"There's that fine line," he said. "You don't want to be rushing everything so suddenly that you make a whole host of unforced errors, but I want to be aggressive and really have that feeling of going for it."

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Henman thinks he can do it, I'm not going to argue with him

 

[rhubarb]

Now that's where the beeb really annoys me. They turn Henman's reasonable analysis of his chances into "Henman confident of Federer shock".

 

[Feña14]

Now that's where the beeb really annoys me. They turn Henman's reasonable analysis of his chances into "Henman confident of Federer shock".

LOL I know what you mean, he said that he will try and take his time away.

His interview on Sky after the Stepanek match he seemed to be looking forward to it.

It's going to be an interesting match up.

 

[6-0 6-0]

I think Henman needs to grow his hair longer. This would probably give him a better chance. It seems like the long hair guys are the ones giving Federer trouble these days.

 

[arodnadal]

i also think henman can beat him today and if not henman than Dent Agassi Or Nadal all will have a great chance to beat him

 

[Goenitz_196]

"There's that fine line," he said. "You don't want to be rushing everything so suddenly that you make a whole host of unforced errors, but I want to be aggressive and really have that feeling of going for it."

Like Henman says himself, constantly rushing to the net all the time will cause more unforced errors, and will make him very predictable. He needs to mix up his strokes, with the main objective going up to the net. Like I said in my first post, nothing more than 3-8 strokes in a rally with Roger. Anymore than that then I think Federer will have already set up the rally for one of his winners.

 

[MonkeyPox]

Dent needs to trim off some excess weight too. It slows him up and a net rusher can't be having that. He and Fish are both too doughy for pro athletes. And it has killed both of them in exploiting the potential they have. At least people like Henman, Agassi and Roddick have worked to get their physiques in a better condition than they were, and it has showed in their results.

 

[alienhamster]

I think robbing Fed of timing is the correct move, and I wish more people would pick up on the fact that you've got to rush him on his *forehand*, not just his backhand, to really make him doubt his game. Safin did this well, Zabaleta did for a bit the other night, and I think Guga broke down Fed's forehand last year. The problem as I see it is that people see the backhand as the weaker side, so they continually hit to it, allowing Fed develop a rhythm to overcome his opponents' fairly predictable gameplans.

Henman's approach shots haven't seemed as sharp lately, so I don't think they will trouble Fed too much on the forehand or backhand, really. If he volleys at his best, he'll have a shot today. But he'll have to hope Fed's form is still a bit off.

 

[gugafanatic]

Henman needs to play a high risk game. I saw him play daydenko and hes serve was soo flat, straight into the hitting zone of hes opponent. I think Henman should attack federer with slices straight off the return, in the middle of the court providing no angles for Fed.

 

[Goenitz_196]

Henman needs to play a high risk game. I saw him play daydenko and hes serve was soo flat, straight into the hitting zone of hes opponent. I think Henman should attack federer with slices straight off the return, in the middle of the court providing no angles for Fed.

Yeah I saw him against Davydenko in the AOPEN and Henman just got killed. His 1st serve wasn't working at all, his volleys were nowhere, and his groundstrokes were just too weak. Davydenko was brilliant though, hitting power winners all the way through the match.

That's the thing about Henman, whenever he comes up against someone who strikes the ball well and has a power game, it's likely he loses to that person. Gulliermo Canas is an example.

 

[alfa164164]

Play out of his arse.