What conclusions can be drawn from yesterday's Fedovic match?

ak24alive

Legend
Conclusions that can be drawn about ROGI:

Bad ones:
1) He is still not confident enough and it shows in his shot selection and how he felt uncomfortable in those tiebreaks which made him rush things up and go for something extra instead of the slice that was working so well throughout the 3 sets.
This effectively lost him those tiebreaks.
2) His lateral movement is really slow.
3) His second serve return is effed up.
4) Most of the time when you make him run to his FH side he nets the ball trying to hit the dtl FH.

Good ones:
1) His serve was working much better compared to last few months.
2) He was able to use the slice really effectively through the 3 sets.
3) Which brings me to the most important thing that Fed is still into it mentally. The drive is still there very much. He was willing to hang in there and dig in.
4) The neo BH is still there somewhere. And as soon as he gains confidence he lets go of the slice for good and rips the BH dtl for winners.
If somehow he can get into the Neo BH zone and solve some of his issues like mental midgetry in the off season then there might be a chance for him at AO given that only Nole and Rafa are the only ones who can stop a great playing Fed. As for the WTF I don't see him winning there. Although I wish that he does.

Conclusions for Nole:
1) The fact that the match was so close might actually have to do with Novak not being at his best(which was quite clear). So people concluding that this means something for their future encounters are being really stupid here. Fed might still go back to losing drastically to an awesome Djoker who is strong from the back of the court.
There is nothing conclusive about this match-up. You can conclude things about where these players are but can't conclude how they will do against each other in the future or what they would have done against each other if they were at their respective peaks.
2) His serve was really kicking.
3) His return wasn't at its best for whatever reasons but I am willingly to say that it will almost certainly be better at WTF and AO. So looks like it's Ultron time baby.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
The only important analysis for Fed at this point is as others have already said - that he's not finished yet. I think finer analysis is kind of losing its significance for Roger at this stage of his career.

For Djokovic it's that his game is at a high enough level that he can currently win against the next best (Fed) with his B game too.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
I disagree that it was Djokovic's B game. It was best Djokovic. He was impeded by Federer's extraordinary level of play. Specifically:

1) Djokovic was unable to read Federer serves well.
2) Federer (probably thanks to Ljubicic) understood patterns of Djokovic's play and was on the ball all the time being able to anticipate where it will go.
3) Backhand down the line was his secret weapon. He executed it brilliantly meaning that he found an angle for Djokovic's spin.
4) Use of slice backhand and short and long balls patterns.

The best Federer I watched. Djokovic was at his best, but it might not look that way in lay people eyes as Federer did not allow him to play. It was a huge victory for Djokovic.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I disagree that it was Djokovic's B game. It was best Djokovic. He was impeded by Federer's extraordinary level of play. Specifically:

1) Djokovic was unable to read Federer serves well.
2) Federer (probably thanks to Ljubicic) understood patterns of Djokovic's play and was on the ball all the time being able to anticipate where it will go.
3) Backhand down the line was his secret weapon. He executed it brilliantly meaning that he found an angle for Djokovic's spin.
4) Use of slice backhand and short and long balls patterns.

The best Federer I watched. Djokovic was at his best, but it might not look that way in lay people eyes as Federer did not allow him to play. It was a huge victory for Djokovic.
This exactly.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Conclusions that can be drawn about ROGI:

Bad ones:
1) He is still not confident enough and it shows in his shot selection and how he felt uncomfortable in those tiebreaks which made him rush things up and go for something extra instead of the slice that was working so well throughout the 3 sets.
This effectively lost him those tiebreaks.
2) His lateral movement is really slow.
3) His second serve return is effed up.
4) Most of the time when you make him run to his FH side he nets the ball trying to hit the dtl FH.

Good ones:
1) His serve was working much better compared to last few months.
2) He was able to use the slice really effectively through the 3 sets.
3) Which brings me to the most important thing that Fed is still into it mentally. The drive is still there very much. He was willing to hang in there and dig in.
4) The neo BH is still there somewhere. And as soon as he gains confidence he lets go of the slice for good and rips the BH dtl for winners.
If somehow he can get into the Neo BH zone and solve some of his issues like mental midgetry in the off season then there might be a chance for him at AO given that only Nole and Rafa are the only ones who can stop a great playing Fed. As for the WTF I don't see him winning there. Although I wish that he does.

Conclusions for Nole:
1) The fact that the match was so close might actually have to do with Novak not being at his best(which was quite clear). So people concluding that this means something for their future encounters are being really stupid here. Fed might still go back to losing drastically to an awesome Djoker who is strong from the back of the court.
There is nothing conclusive about this match-up. You can conclude things about where these players are but can't conclude how they will do against each other in the future or what they would have done against each other if they were at their respective peaks.
2) His serve was really kicking.
3) His return wasn't at its best for whatever reasons but I am willingly to say that it will almost certainly be better at WTF and AO. So looks like it's Ultron time baby.
I agree

The most crucial points you brough up are:

1.His lateral movement is really slow
2.2nd serve return is horrible

He can't do anything about 1., but he should look to really improve 2.
 
That Djokovic has to be below par, and Federer has to serve like Isner on the court specially designed for him, for Fed to have a prayer in this matchup!?:oops:
 

WarrenMP

Professional
I disagree that it was Djokovic's B game. It was best Djokovic. He was impeded by Federer's extraordinary level of play. Specifically:

1) Djokovic was unable to read Federer serves well.
2) Federer (probably thanks to Ljubicic) understood patterns of Djokovic's play and was on the ball all the time being able to anticipate where it will go.
3) Backhand down the line was his secret weapon. He executed it brilliantly meaning that he found an angle for Djokovic's spin.
4) Use of slice backhand and short and long balls patterns.

The best Federer I watched. Djokovic was at his best, but it might not look that way in lay people eyes as Federer did not allow him to play. It was a huge victory for Djokovic.
Fed shot selection was based on keeping Novak from taking control of the rallies. If Fed was ripping his shots on both ends, Novak would have shots in his strike zone.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Fed shot selection was based on keeping Novak from taking control of the rallies. If Fed was ripping his shots on both ends, Novak would have shots in his strike zone.
Agree. Fed was playing tactically so well. Also, he was very clear minded and did not deviate from the plan until the end. He tries to solve Djokovic.
 

ak24alive

Legend
I disagree that it was Djokovic's B game. It was best Djokovic. He was impeded by Federer's extraordinary level of play. Specifically:

1) Djokovic was unable to read Federer serves well.
2) Federer (probably thanks to Ljubicic) understood patterns of Djokovic's play and was on the ball all the time being able to anticipate where it will go.
3) Backhand down the line was his secret weapon. He executed it brilliantly meaning that he found an angle for Djokovic's spin.
4) Use of slice backhand and short and long balls patterns.

The best Federer I watched. Djokovic was at his best, but it might not look that way in lay people eyes as Federer did not allow him to play. It was a huge victory for Djokovic.
I agree with some of the tactical points you mentioned but sorry none of them were anywhere close to their best.
They were serving great for the most part. Still not the best we have seen them done.
Federer's serve out wide was awesome and Nole's dtl was clicking too but no, not the best.
Federer's movement was below par.
His FH was not working as it should.
He slice BH was working well but he needs the right balance between the Neo BH and the slice which wasn't there.
In short, no not the best level.
But a very satisfying one given the last few months.
 

S'in-net

Semi-Pro
Conclusions that can be drawn about ROGI:
Bad ones:
1) He is still not confident enough and it shows in his shot selection and how he felt uncomfortable in those tiebreaks which made him rush things up and go for something extra instead of the slice that was working so well throughout the 3 sets.
This effectively lost him those tiebreaks.
2) His lateral movement is really slow.
3) His second serve return is effed up.
4) Most of the time when you make him run to his FH side he nets the ball trying to hit the dtl FH.

Good ones:
1) His serve was working much better compared to last few months.
2) He was able to use the slice really effectively through the 3 sets.
3) Which brings me to the most important thing that Fed is still into it mentally. The drive is still there very much. He was willing to hang in there and dig in.
4) The neo BH is still there somewhere. And as soon as he gains confidence he lets go of the slice for good and rips the BH dtl for winners.
If somehow he can get into the Neo BH zone and solve some of his issues like mental midgetry in the off season then there might be a chance for him at AO given that only Nole and Rafa are the only ones who can stop a great playing Fed. As for the WTF I don't see him winning there. Although I wish that he does.

Conclusions for Nole:
1) The fact that the match was so close might actually have to do with Novak not being at his best(which was quite clear). So people concluding that this means something for their future encounters are being really stupid here. Fed might still go back to losing drastically to an awesome Djoker who is strong from the back of the court.
There is nothing conclusive about this match-up. You can conclude things about where these players are but can't conclude how they will do against each other in the future or what they would have done against each other if they were at their respective peaks.
2) His serve was really kicking.
3) His return wasn't at its best for whatever reasons but I am willingly to say that it will almost certainly be better at WTF and AO. So looks like it's Ultron time baby.
Agree with most of this save for the bolded part

Fereder's lateral movement isn't explosive anymore but he counters the slight loss there by slight improvement in anticipation and a recent willingness to play heavy retrieving role when moved from side to side on the defence in a rally
 

Sartorius

Hall of Fame
The last 2 years Fed probably played the best tennis he could have at this point in his career (2017 in particular was obviously the very best he could do). Various deficiencies in his game that are already mentioned in this thread, but he finds ways to get the most out of himself. In comparison Novak today, especially at his best, is currently the better player overall.

Federer almost did too well yesterday to make the margin seem small. Matches like that probably keeps his belief high that he can still win any tournament he enters. And he probably thinks, unlike the fan bases' general opinion, the losses won't really matter in the long run, but the wins will.
 

TheAssassin

Legend
I disagree that it was Djokovic's B game. It was best Djokovic. He was impeded by Federer's extraordinary level of play. Specifically:
1) Djokovic was unable to read Federer serves well.
2) Federer (probably thanks to Ljubicic) understood patterns of Djokovic's play and was on the ball all the time being able to anticipate where it will go.
3) Backhand down the line was his secret weapon. He executed it brilliantly meaning that he found an angle for Djokovic's spin.
4) Use of slice backhand and short and long balls patterns.
The best Federer I watched. Djokovic was at his best, but it might not look that way in lay people eyes as Federer did not allow him to play. It was a huge victory for Djokovic.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
These emojis are so bad.
In 2015 I predicted that Federer is improving and that he will win more slams. Most of Fed fans laughed at that. Sometimes I write a serious post on TTW forgetting with whom I am dealing with. Mea culpa.
 

Towny

Hall of Fame
My main take away is that Fed still has fight left in him. After 3 dismal showings in a row against Novak (although can't really blame him for AO2016), I expected him to fold mentally after losing the TB. But he fought back and the match went the distance. Novak obviously the favourite in London but given Fed has always been better there than in Paris, he may be in with a shot
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Conclusions that can be drawn about ROGI:

Bad ones:
1) He is still not confident enough and it shows in his shot selection and how he felt uncomfortable in those tiebreaks which made him rush things up and go for something extra instead of the slice that was working so well throughout the 3 sets.
This effectively lost him those tiebreaks.
2) His lateral movement is really slow.
3) His second serve return is effed up.
4) Most of the time when you make him run to his FH side he nets the ball trying to hit the dtl FH.

Good ones:
1) His serve was working much better compared to last few months.
2) He was able to use the slice really effectively through the 3 sets.
3) Which brings me to the most important thing that Fed is still into it mentally. The drive is still there very much. He was willing to hang in there and dig in.
4) The neo BH is still there somewhere. And as soon as he gains confidence he lets go of the slice for good and rips the BH dtl for winners.
If somehow he can get into the Neo BH zone and solve some of his issues like mental midgetry in the off season then there might be a chance for him at AO given that only Nole and Rafa are the only ones who can stop a great playing Fed. As for the WTF I don't see him winning there. Although I wish that he does.

Conclusions for Nole:
1) The fact that the match was so close might actually have to do with Novak not being at his best(which was quite clear). So people concluding that this means something for their future encounters are being really stupid here. Fed might still go back to losing drastically to an awesome Djoker who is strong from the back of the court.
There is nothing conclusive about this match-up. You can conclude things about where these players are but can't conclude how they will do against each other in the future or what they would have done against each other if they were at their respective peaks.
2) His serve was really kicking.
3) His return wasn't at its best for whatever reasons but I am willingly to say that it will almost certainly be better at WTF and AO. So looks like it's Ultron time baby.
Another one, and I think it’s nearly at the stage where it’s becoming a weapon, is a very dependable down the line shot.

Both by BH slice DTL for a disruptive pattern and the inside/in FH reverse finish, now even for outright winners.

But perhaps the biggest takeaway for me was seeing him not be grumpy fed like we have for many parts during the year.

He was in it right through the end mentally and emotionally. Tactically, all it came down to were a couple of points in the breakers lost.

Maybe Djokovic coming back the way he has brings out the tennis competitor in Fed?
 
That Fed always ups his game against Djokovic. The tension between the two is unreal on court.
Pretty much unexpected fight from fedr because of what had been the ultimate dogsheet display of tennis by him post IW final (minus stuttgart)
So fedovic matches can still be enjoyable
 

ScottleeSV

Professional
Djokovic didn't show any signs of illness or tiredness or anything else during the match. He served better than I've ever seen him serve and he was clutch in the tie breaks. He simply came up against a Federer who managed to put a performance in and that's why it was close.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
The only thing new to see in the match is that Fed tried the no-pace strategy and the slice-him-to-death strategy. He still was involved in way too many baseline exchanges.

I preferred his aggressive 2015 Cincy-USO strategy of SABR-ing and attacking, but he's apparently not confident enough to pull that off these days. I wish he'd mixed up the slice and topspin BH's more, but he and Ljub know best. He did try to disrupt Djoker's rhythm, which is absolutely what he needed to do. Had the DTL backhand been working at its highest level, he would have won the contest. I thought it was a brilliant tactical match from Fed and wonderful to see the old guy almost pulling off the upset. A privilege to see him play at that level at his age.

The conclusion is he that he can still play sublime tennis, but the mental beastness and confidence that we saw in early 2017 are not there, at least against Djokovic. Nole's been in his head ever since 2013, if not before.
 

ScottleeSV

Professional
I thought the extra slices worked great for Fed. Djoko scooping those back on his backhand doesn't look as comfortable as Nadal hitting the forehand. Despite the result, if I was Fed I would persist with that tactic a lot.
 
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