What did Murray do to Federer in Shanghai that Djokovic couldn't?

Djokovic2011 said:
Got a feeling I'd come to the same conclusion if I watched the full match. I understand how much you love Hewitt and Roddick mate but admitting that Murray is the better HC player(and indeed better overall) doesn't make you any less a fan. ;)
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Don't argue with someone who thinks Federer is better than Djokovic. ;):D:p
 
Noleberic123 said:
To do a through the leg shot and drop shot in the same point two points away from defeat. Only mental illness can explain that.
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I guess Federer is too then with the second serve serve and volley and tweener against Safin on match point in 2005.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I do feel that Federer raises his game more when he plays Djokovic. In 2014 especially he really got up for playing Novak that year, like every match was a matter of life and death to him.
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Federer probably has the match-up advantage as well, and my guess is he was trying everything to get the #1 spot again.
Noleberic123 said:
To do a through the leg shot and drop shot in the same point two points away from defeat. Only mental illness can explain that.
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Really smart play, that's all.
 
Mickey mouse tournament so anything could happen.

That said, Federer owns Djokovic on faster surfaces so this result isn't surprising.
 
TBF if you look at the MPs murray had against Djokovic in that match, there wasn't much he could do. Djokovic decided to go for it and was very aggressive and took control. The risks paid off for him. Murray was on the backfoot in 4 of those 5 MPs and was very pressured. Novak got some great 1st serves in and hit unreturnable winners. The last MP Murray had at 10-9 in the TB he had Djokovic on the backfoot but Djokovic was just refusing to give in and returned incredible. Maybe Murray could have done better on that MP but still I don't see what he could have done in the other 4 MPs. I wouldn't exaggerate like people are doing when they call it a choke. It was incredible mental strength from Djokovic aswell, he though if I'm gonna go out, then I'm going out with an UE and not let Murray punch me out.
 
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Djokovic2011 said:
Got a feeling I'd come to the same conclusion if I watched the full match. I understand how much you love Hewitt and Roddick mate but admitting that Murray is the better HC player(and indeed better overall) doesn't make you any less a fan. ;)
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You said he would tear them to shreds at their bests, that's delusional. Murray isn't that good and wasn't that good that day. Like you so eloquently stated in the other thread, Murray has just the one HC slam - the same as both of them. But keep pushing your BS.

By the same token just because you ride Djokovic's coattails doesn't make you any less of a fan if you're not doing Murray a service in every other post.
 
NatF said:
You said he would tear them to shreds at their bests, that's delusional. Murray isn't that good and wasn't that good that day. Like you so eloquently stated in the other thread, Murray has just the one HC slam - the same as both of them. But keep pushing your BS.

By the same token just because you ride Djokovic's coattails doesn't make you any less of a fan if you're not doing Murray a service in every other post.
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I disagree. At the very least Murray would've still beaten them both that day and perhaps not torn them to shreds, but comfortably at least. I also find it funny how you seem to think Murray's never played a great match on HC, despite over 500 matches on the surface throughout his career. You're starting to remind me a bit of abmk with your sky high standards for certain players NatF(mostly the ones you don't like very much). I mean bloody hell, if you don't think Murray played well in the '12 Shanghai final, when did he in your opinion?! :rolleyes::eek:
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I disagree. At the very least Murray would've still beaten them both that day and perhaps not torn them to shreds, but comfortably at least. I also find it funny how you seem to think Murray's never played a great match on HC, despite over 500 matches on the surface throughout his career. You're starting to remind me a bit of abmk with your sky high standards for certain players NatF(mostly the ones you don't like very much). I mean bloody hell, if you don't think Murray played well in the '12 Shanghai final, when did he in your opinion?! :rolleyes::eek:
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You lack reading comprehension apparently. I said Murray wasn't good enough that day to tear any Hewitt or Roddick to shreds. I didn't say he wasn't great that day just not as great as you make out e.g. so great he would destroy any Roddick or Hewitt that took to the court. That says more about your views of players (slam champions and former #1's I might add) than mine. Every time you post about players from that era you reveal how little you know.

You do like to put words in other peoples mouths don't you? When have I ever said Murray never played a great match on HC...I don't blame you for building strawman, it's probably the way you feel you can get into a debate - by ridiculing views that no one has:rolleyes: I would say you're starting to remind me of 'such and such' but you've always been passive aggressive and you've always twisted words around.
 
NatF said:
You lack reading comprehension apparently. I said Murray wasn't good enough that day to tear any Hewitt or Roddick to shreds. I didn't say he wasn't great that day just not as great as you make out e.g. so great he would destroy any Roddick or Hewitt that took to the court. That says more about your views of players (slam champions and former #1's I might add) than mine. Every time you post about players from that era you reveal how little you know.

You do like to put words in other peoples mouths don't you? When have I ever said Murray never played a great match on HC...I don't blame you for building strawman, it's probably the way you feel you can get into a debate - by ridiculing views that no one has:rolleyes: I would say you're starting to remind me of 'such and such' but you've always been passive aggressive and you've always twisted words around.
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You said "Murray wasn't that good that day". If you meant not so good as to tear them apart, you should've been clearer. And yet again you're allowing yourself to get agitated over something that really isn't that important.
 
Murray is a a much better tennis player than Hewitt and Roddick, there is much difference in quality there in Murrays favour. There is no way around that.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
You said "Murray wasn't that good that day". If you meant not so good as to tear them apart, you should've been clearer. And yet again you're allowing yourself to get agitated over something that really isn't that important.
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Don't put words in someone's mouth and then complain about their response ;) Especially when it's not the first time.

It might not have been spelled out for you but it was clear enough. I certainly didn't say anything about Murray never playing a great match on HC in his career.
 
raw
 
NatF said:
Don't put words in someone's mouth and then complain about their response ;) Especially when it's not the first time.

It might not have been spelled out for you but it was clear enough. I certainly didn't say anything about Murray never playing a great match on HC in his career.
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What great matches do you think he played on HC?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
You said "Murray wasn't that good that day". If you meant not so good as to tear them apart, you should've been clearer. And yet again you're allowing yourself to get agitated over something that really isn't that important.
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Are you illiterate? He said "You said Murray would tear them to shreds. Murray wasn't that good that day" or something to that effect. The meaning of that is very clear. You said that Murray was good enough to destroy Roddick and Hewitt (so basically that would make him peak Federer but somehow he lost to Djokovic anyways that's another story), but the main point is that NatF rightly called you out on it because Murray wasn't THAT good on that day.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
What great matches do you think he played on HC?
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Honestly more than I can be bothered to list. If you really need to know I'll type some up in the morning.

Your test can be how many matches of Hewitt it Roddick youv actually seen at their peaks.
 
NatF said:
Honestly more than I can be bothered to list. If you really need to know I'll type some up in the morning.

Your test can be how many matches of Hewitt it Roddick youv actually seen at their peaks.
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Hewitt vs Sampras 2001 USO final. There's one straight away! :p
 
Djokovic2011 said:
What great matches do you think he played on HC?
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How about this for a change. Someone else ask the question and you provide the answer. Instead of you asking the question and then having some sort of programmed auto response ready when you don't like/can't understand what you read.

So without further ado, what great matches do you think Murray has played on a HC? And please for god's sake, try not to list all matches where he beat Djokovic or he lost to Djokovic, but played well.
 
Steve0904 said:
How about this for a change. Someone else ask the question and you provide the answer. Instead of you asking the question and then having some sort of programmed auto response ready when you don't like/can't understand what you read.

So without further ado, what great matches do you think Murray has played on a HC? And please for god's sake, try not to list all matches where he beat Djokovic or he lost to Djokovic, but played well.
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Đoković*
 
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