What do you make of this ending?

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Match point for me in 3rd set - I hit a putaway FH winner off a short ball at the service line. It lands about 6-8" inside the sideline for a clean winner, probably 6 ft inside the baseline, right in front of me, opposite side of court for him. To me it was extremely, clearly in, to the degree that it didn't even cross my mind that it could even be called out. I walk to the net and my opponent calls "out" when I am at the net.

I laugh because I thought it was a joke like "ah dang I lost match point, I'm calling it out! j/k." Then I said wait are you joking or are you serious? He said "I saw it out." I laughed and said wow...okay....deuce. He said why don't we replay the point? I said no, you saw it out, then it's deuce and started walking back to the service line. He recanted and said you know what I don't want to win with that, I'll call it in, good match." I was like wait are you sure? Because it's your call. And he said yeah he's sure, that I had a better look at it anyways. So I asked one more time and he said yeah, and we shook hands and I won the match.

We chatted afterwards and I expressed how I was sorry it ended like that, that I didn't mean to be rude by laughing, that I really thought he was joking with the call. He was cool and no issues between us.

But, what do you think of the event? Did anyone do anything wrong?
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
I expressed how I was sorry it ended like that, that I didn't mean to be rude by laughing, that I really thought he was joking with the call.
I mean, that's not exactly how you described it in your previous paragraph:

I laugh because I thought it was a joke like "ah dang I lost match point, I'm calling it out! j/k." Then I said wait are you joking or are you serious? He said "I saw it out." I laughed and said wow...okay....deuce.
i.e. initially you laughed because you thought he was joking - but the bolded is after he clarified he was serious (and is let's be honest it's a little bit rude)

My take from his reaction is that the guy was not deliberately trying to hook you. Sounds like he was in a bad position for a critical call, and confirmation bias meant his brain saw what it was hoping to see. When you reacted so badly he second guessed himself.

Personally I would have taken the let. Even knowing I'm right, I don't like taking points by pressuring my opponent. If he genuinely saw things different, a do-over is a fairer solution (especially since he was within his rights to not even offer that).

But nobody really did anything wrong here. I'd just suggest omitting the bolded next time.
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
I mean, that's not exactly how you described it in your previous paragraph:


i.e. initially you laughed because you thought he was joking - but the bolded is after he clarified he was serious (and is let's be honest it's a little bit rude)

My take from his reaction is that the guy was not deliberately trying to hook you. Sounds like he was in a bad position for a critical call, and confirmation bias meant his brain saw what it was hoping to see. When you reacted so badly he second guessed himself.

Personally I would have taken the let. Even knowing I'm right, I don't like taking points by pressuring my opponent. If he genuinely saw things different, a do-over is a fairer solution (especially since he was within his rights to not even offer that).

But nobody really did anything wrong here. I'd just suggest omitting the bolded next time.

Correct, two laughs:
1) thinking it was a joke (not bad)
2) after he said he was serious (perhaps rude yes)

Doing it over I would remove laugh #2 but #1 was genuine so I would leave it.

My counterpoint to taking the let: you should not call a ball out if you did not clearly see it out. His very late call and admission that he could be mistaken indicates that he did not clearly see it out (which is supported by my own vision which say it way in). So if he did not clearly see it out, then it's my point.
 

Pass750

Professional
It turned out ok, no harm no foul. But making a bad call on a ball that was 6 to 8 inches in on match point is egregious. I rarely question calls, but I definitely would have questioned that. And I wouldn’t take a let, it’s his call, if he insists on calling it out that is on him, not going to let him off the hook by feeling like he is doing me a favor by playing a let.
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
It turned out ok, no harm no foul. But making a bad call on a ball that was 6 to 8 inches in on match point is egregious. I rarely question calls, but I definitely would have questioned that. And I wouldn’t take a let, it’s his call, if he insists on calling it out that is on him, not going to let him off the hook by feeling like he is doing me a favor by playing a let.

Yeah that was my thought. Playing a let rewards him for making a bad call (not bad because it was in, but bad because he didn't clearly see it out). Either he clearly saw it out (his point) or he didn't (my point).
 

TennisManiac

Hall of Fame
Match point for me in 3rd set - I hit a putaway FH winner off a short ball at the service line. It lands about 6-8" inside the sideline for a clean winner, probably 6 ft inside the baseline, right in front of me, opposite side of court for him. To me it was extremely, clearly in, to the degree that it didn't even cross my mind that it could even be called out. I walk to the net and my opponent calls "out" when I am at the net.

I laugh because I thought it was a joke like "ah dang I lost match point, I'm calling it out! j/k." Then I said wait are you joking or are you serious? He said "I saw it out." I laughed and said wow...okay....deuce. He said why don't we replay the point? I said no, you saw it out, then it's deuce and started walking back to the service line. He recanted and said you know what I don't want to win with that, I'll call it in, good match." I was like wait are you sure? Because it's your call. And he said yeah he's sure, that I had a better look at it anyways. So I asked one more time and he said yeah, and we shook hands and I won the match.

We chatted afterwards and I expressed how I was sorry it ended like that, that I didn't mean to be rude by laughing, that I really thought he was joking with the call. He was cool and no issues between us.

But, what do you think of the event? Did anyone do anything wrong?
Nothing wrong to me. I see this stuff all the time.
 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
Offering a let just confirms that the person who made the call is unsure of it, hence it is a disingenuous way of asking for a replay.
Everyone knows this. That's why even if you know you're wrong, even if you're intentionally hooking, you must double down and if anything, act even more sure of yourself. Most people have their act down pretty well over the years. It's all about perception. Doing and saying the right things to "prove" your call is "obviously" correct. Because clearly the better you are able to fake that you are sure of yourself, the more likely it is that the ball landed out. Makes perfect sense.

The OP isn't really worried about the call actually. He's worried he may have committed a social faux pas. An unforgivable offense. He'll be the talk of the club / league community.
 
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chuckersthenut

Hall of Fame
Match point for me in 3rd set - I hit a putaway FH winner off a short ball at the service line. It lands about 6-8" inside the sideline for a clean winner, probably 6 ft inside the baseline, right in front of me, opposite side of court for him. To me it was extremely, clearly in, to the degree that it didn't even cross my mind that it could even be called out. I walk to the net and my opponent calls "out" when I am at the net.

I laugh because I thought it was a joke like "ah dang I lost match point, I'm calling it out! j/k." Then I said wait are you joking or are you serious? He said "I saw it out." I laughed and said wow...okay....deuce. He said why don't we replay the point? I said no, you saw it out, then it's deuce and started walking back to the service line. He recanted and said you know what I don't want to win with that, I'll call it in, good match." I was like wait are you sure? Because it's your call. And he said yeah he's sure, that I had a better look at it anyways. So I asked one more time and he said yeah, and we shook hands and I won the match.

We chatted afterwards and I expressed how I was sorry it ended like that, that I didn't mean to be rude by laughing, that I really thought he was joking with the call. He was cool and no issues between us.

But, what do you think of the event? Did anyone do anything wrong?
People are weak. He didn't want to lose because he cannot kill his ego.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
The let/replay offer in an official match always makes me uncomfortable. In a casual / unofficial match, sure replay the point if it keeps things friendly. But the official rules clearly state that you never replay the point in a situation like this. Yet insisting on this rule feels rude and uncompromising.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
There are two instances where I’m willing to change my call - when my partner in doubles sees it differently from me or in singles where I looked sideways at a ball on the sideline from a distance while my opponent was looking at it straight down the line due to recognizing that parallax error might be in play. In both cases I concede the point and don’t ask for a replay even in social matches.

I don’t call balls out unless my brain tells me that I 100% saw the ball out. But I recognize that I could still be wrong in reality in the two examples above and am willing to concede the point.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Offering a let just confirms that the person who made the call is unsure of it, hence it is a disingenuous way of asking for a replay.

This bothers me in match play. The last competition match of the year last season my opponent made a bad call.
I acted surprised because, well, I was surprised and because this was a national league match.
They took notice and asked me if I wanted to replay the point. I declined.
Not just because I didn't want to replay the point, I don't really enjoy doing this even when an umpire asks for it, but because I wanted to send the message that my calls will stand, and so should his. Stop ****ing around.

If you are unsure of the ball being out, do not make the call! You are wasting everyone's time.
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
my opinion is if he offered to replay the point = he was not sure on his call and the ball was good.
Love Rec Tennis and the webs some people weave
 

Maxxodd

New User
If it was as you describe (and I'm not saying it wasn't), I don't see anything wrong with the way you handled it. It would be hard not to sound a little incredulous when conceding the point. It's likely he wanted to see the ball out and was in a poor position to call it. He obviously shouldn't miss that badly, no matter where he was on the court. But, it also sounds like he had a few seconds to think about the situation, his actual sighting and made the right decision and handled it with sportsmanship, so I wouldn't have a problem with any of it. I think even the most honest tennis players make unintentional bad calls from time to time.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Offering a let just confirms that the person who made the call is unsure of it, hence it is a disingenuous way of asking for a replay.
Not necessarily. If I call a ball out, I can 100% guarantee that I saw the ball out without a doubt. What I can't 100% guarantee, nor can anyone else, is that my eyesight is infallible. If two people 100% guarantee that they saw the same thing different ways, then one clearly saw it wrong, but without a way to know who it was that saw it wrong, a let is a fair compromise. I know that's not in the official rules, but I have offered a let when people are insistent even though I have no doubt about how I saw it.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
Lots of people claiming that they only call a ball out if they are 100% sure it was out.

I'm not sure that I buy it.

Using myself as an example: I think I'm a very honest line caller. However I only need to be 95% sure in order to call a ball out. Only calling balls out when 100% sure means I would be playing most balls that are within 6 inches of a line, and many that are a foot out.

Thought exercise: Your match is being recorded, and will be reviewed after the fact for any bad calls you may have made.
The penalty for having made a bad call is death.
Would that change how you call the lines? For me, you betcha - I would be playing everything within two feet of a line. You know, to be 100% sure.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
If you are in a ‘parallax error’ situation looking sideways at the ball while the opponent is looking down the line and it is a sideline call, the chance of being wrong is high even if you feel you saw the ball 100% out. If the opponent is someone you know as a fair linecaller and they insist it is in, I would concede the point in that situation. If the opponent is someone new or someone who has not earned that trust, I would stick with my call.

If I am not in a parallax error situation (where my brain might be tricked) and I feel that I saw the ball 100% out, I would not play a let or concede the point as I would feel confident of my call. This is because I call lines generously and call balls in even if I have the slightest doubt. So, I would not trust any opponent‘s eyes over mine in other situations especially since they are further away and have a bias towards wanting the ball to be in.

I never play lets as that is not the rule - if any uncertainty arises in my mind over my call, I would concede the point. If my opponent wants to play a let because they are uncertain over their own call, I don’t do it either as I would tell them to either concede the point if they have doubts or keep it as their point per their original call.
 

jz000

Semi-Pro
Well 6ft inside baseline is a lot, and 6" sideline isn't much. If he was opposite end of the other sideline, then he COULD'VE seen it out I guess.
But he had no right to call that, since it shouldn't be clear to him, unless he is 7ft tall with a clear view.
Smart of you to just accept it tho, and call it deuce. It is his call at the end of the day. No need to let it bother you.

I would just call his next crucial shot out, wherever it lands.
Also, he made it sound like you saw it wrong.

Hmm, guess I should record all my matches, then replay the video live.
 

a10best

Legend
Match point for me in 3rd set - I hit a putaway FH winner off a short ball at the service line. It lands about 6-8" inside the sideline for a clean winner, probably 6 ft inside the baseline, right in front of me, opposite side of court for him. To me it was extremely, clearly in, to the degree that it didn't even cross my mind that it could even be called out. I walk to the net and my opponent calls "out" when I am at the net.

I laugh because I thought it was a joke like "ah dang I lost match point, I'm calling it out! j/k." Then I said wait are you joking or are you serious? He said "I saw it out." I laughed and said wow...okay....deuce. He said why don't we replay the point? I said no, you saw it out, then it's deuce and started walking back to the service line. He recanted and said you know what I don't want to win with that, I'll call it in, good match." I was like wait are you sure? Because it's your call. And he said yeah he's sure, that I had a better look at it anyways. So I asked one more time and he said yeah, and we shook hands and I won the match.

We chatted afterwards and I expressed how I was sorry it ended like that, that I didn't mean to be rude by laughing, that I really thought he was joking with the call. He was cool and no issues between us.

But, what do you think of the event? Did anyone do anything wrong?
Heavy topspin or flat FH winner? a flat FH winner it with pace can seem out.
was he notorious for calling shots out that are in?
Reminds me of a match where the guy said my FH sideline winner was clearly out and it was in at 5-games all my ad.
This guy I played was notorious for calling balls out that were in.
 

sovertennis

Professional
Not necessarily. If I call a ball out, I can 100% guarantee that I saw the ball out without a doubt. What I can't 100% guarantee, nor can anyone else, is that my eyesight is infallible. If two people 100% guarantee that they saw the same thing different ways, then one clearly saw it wrong, but without a way to know who it was that saw it wrong, a let is a fair compromise. I know that's not in the official rules, but I have offered a let when people are insistent even though I have no doubt about how I saw it.
Or your could just play by the "official rules" instead of making up your own.
 

derick232

Rookie
This bothers me in match play. The last competition match of the year last season my opponent made a bad call.
I acted surprised because, well, I was surprised and because this was a national league match.
They took notice and asked me if I wanted to replay the point. I declined.
Not just because I didn't want to replay the point, I don't really enjoy doing this even when an umpire asks for it, but because I wanted to send the message that my calls will stand, and so should his. Stop ****ing around.

If you are unsure of the ball being out, do not make the call! You are wasting everyone's time.

I agree, though there are plenty of times when you make an initial out call and are sure in the moment but in the moments after if there is some doubt. In this case I always correct my call and concede the point. I think not enough people are willing to correct themselves after making a call they have doubts on after. They think if they made the call then they must stand by it even if they are unsure for fear of looking bad. It doesn't make you look like a bad line caller, it just makes you look honest especially if the opponent isn't questioning the original call. They only instance in which I would take the point is if after correcting myself my opponent confirms the original out call.
 

ichaseballs

Hall of Fame
anyone that offers to play a let after a bad call clearly knows what they did.
in a real match there is no " replay of point " for your bad call... you just lose the point. and lose karma points for wasting time.
 
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Vicious49

Legend
Lots of people claiming that they only call a ball out if they are 100% sure it was out.

I'm not sure that I buy it.

Using myself as an example: I think I'm a very honest line caller. However I only need to be 95% sure in order to call a ball out. Only calling balls out when 100% sure means I would be playing most balls that are within 6 inches of a line, and many that are a foot out.
I actually do end up playing a lot of points that are 6+ inches out. My doubles partners are always like 'that ball was way out'. I tell them they can call it if they clearly saw it but while I'm running or if I'm at a certain angle where I'm not sure I'm just going to play it. I just see it as an extra handicap or exercise so not a big deal. I'd rather give away a few freebies than be known as someone who makes bad calls or hooks people.
 

Funbun

Professional
I actually do end up playing a lot of points that are 6+ inches out. My doubles partners are always like 'that ball was way out'. I tell them they can call it if they clearly saw it but while I'm running or if I'm at a certain angle where I'm not sure I'm just going to play it. I just see it as an extra handicap or exercise so not a big deal. I'd rather give away a few freebies than be known as someone who makes bad calls or hooks people.
this sounds more disrespectful than hooking lmao
 
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