What happened to Sampras will happen to Federer

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
In My Opinion Federer should have kept his grip on wimbledon as strong as Nadal kept his grip on french for 15-16 years, but then Federer allowed Novak to win 5 times and Murray to win 2 times, those slams should have been Roger's, at least 5 out those 7 he should have poached.

Sadly he could not and that is what has hurt him, on HCs I dont see a chance vs Novak from 2011 onwards though he did have his chance once or twice... but that was not gonna work.

Grass was his best shot at keeping the slams record till the end.
Federer was up against a prime Djokovic when he himself was approaching his mid 30’s. His ground game had declined significantly and Djokovic was at the peak of his abilities. The fact is Wimbledon is a baseliner’s game now and a prime Djokovic is just a better player overall player than an old Federer. Djokovic was simply the better player in the 2014 and 2015 finals.
 

Ultra 2

Professional
1) Pete will be known as the greatest player pre-poly.

2) Roger is currently the GOAT after poly..but history is still writing itself.

3) Rafa is the greatest on red clay.. ever

4) Novak will dethrone Roger soon.. maybe this year if he continues to play the way he did today
 

Vanilla Slice

Professional
Nadal Djokovic matches are the most intense and insane feats of athletic tennis in history. Anyone who watches their H2H matches and finds them unappealing doesn’t appreciate tennis or greatness.
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
1) Pete will be known as the greatest player pre-poly.

2) Roger is currently the GOAT after poly..but history is still writing itself.

3) Rafa is the greatest on red clay.. ever

4) Novak will dethrone Roger soon.. maybe this year if he continues to play the way he did today
Yep, PETE was the greatest "gut" player which is a suiting title for him in more than one way, while Nole is def going down as the greatest of the poly era. Rafa is a worthy second, and Feddy is the bronze medalist.
 
Difference is Fed could have STOPPED it from happening. (Pete was already long retired) He choked to the big dogs too many times. All those blown opportunities catch up. Karma chokeage rears its ugly head
 
Weakasses like you bring that weak era theory. Federer started facing Nadal in slams from 2005. From 2005-2008 he faced him in 7 slam finals. So nadal was a weak era opponent for you. In his post 30s Federer faced peak wawrinka,murray and ATG Djokovic in slams. Federer lost to djokovic in 4 finals and 2 semifinals which were close. Had it been otherway he could have had 25+ slams by now.

No to take Anything from sampras but he faced a servebot Ivanisevic mostly at SW19 and beat him 3 times in Final and lost krajeck in semifinal. Atleast Federer never lost a servebot. Federer has to make transition from fast grass to reduced speed of grass which resulted in his decline at WImbledon or else he could have won 10-12 wimbledons by now.
Learn to read my friend, it will help you in the long run. My post clearly singled out that Nadal as a teenager was schooling Federer during his so called peak years. You know, the years where Rafa was owning your idols rear end with a 6/2 H2H in slam finals 2005-2009.

You obviously don't know that much about tennis history either, Roger never won a Wimbledon on fast grass. Wimbledon slowed down the grass for the 2002 season.

During those grand slam finals Federer faced Aggassi who was well past his prime and needed cortisone injections to be able to walk onto court, a 20 year old Djokovic and a 21 year old Murray both far from the level they would eventually reach and to be considered rivals. The others he faced during this period (Roddick, Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling) had a total of one grand slam between the four of them. We have Nadal who is a clay courter (still at that point) getting to three Wimbledon finals, what does that tell you about the competition back then regardless if the court was slowed down, it was the polar opposite to clay.

Grands Slam Finals 2005-2009

Australian Open 2005 Safin df Hewitt
French Open 2005 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2005 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2005 Federer df Aggasi (35)

Australian Open 2006 Federer df Baghdatis
French Open 2006 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2006 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2006 Federer df Roddick

Australian Open 2007 Federer df Gonzalez
French Open 2007 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2007 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2007 Federer df Djokovic (20)

Australian Open 2008 Federer df Tsonga
French Open 2008 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2008 Nadal df Federer
US Open 2008 Federer df Murray (21)

Australian Open 2009 Nadal df Federer
French Open 2009 Federer df Soderling
Wimbledon 2009 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2009 Del Potro (21) df Federer

There is NO WAY Federer would have 20 grand slams to his name if he had to face peak Djokovic, Murray, Warwinka while still having to deal with Nadal during 2005-2009. This was a truely weak era, people can disagree and that is totally fine but just take a look at who he had to beat for the titles.

Sampras's 14 Grand Slam finals wins

Win1990US OpenHardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 6–2

Win1993WimbledonGrassJim Courier7–6(7–3), 7–6(8–6), 3–6, 6–3

Win1993US Open (2)HardCédric Pioline6–4, 6–4, 6–3

Win1994Australian OpenHardTodd Martin7–6(7–4), 6–4, 6–4

Win1994Wimbledon (2)GrassGoran Ivanišević7–6(7–2), 7–6(7–5), 6–0

Win1995Wimbledon (3)GrassBoris Becker6–7(5–7), 6–2, 6–4, 6–2
Win1995US Open (3)HardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 4–6, 7–5
Win1996US Open (4)HardMichael Chang6–1, 6–4, 7–6(7–3)
Win1997Australian Open (2)HardCarlos Moyá6–2, 6–3, 6–3
Win1997Wimbledon (4)GrassCédric Pioline6–4, 6–2, 6–4
Win1998Wimbledon (5)GrassGoran Ivanišević6–7(2–7), 7–6(11–9), 6–4, 3–6, 6–2
Win1999Wimbledon (6)GrassAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 7–5
Win2000Wimbledon (7)GrassPatrick Rafter6–7(10–12), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 6–2


Win2002US Open (5)HardAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 5–7, 6–4
Apart from Todd Martin & Cedric Pioline every other opponent was or became a Grand Slam Champion unlike Federer's GS Final contemporaries (Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling)

Weakasses like me aren't pulling stats out of our rear end, there's a reason why a lot of us feel like this, I don't envy you as you have to prepare for your Idols records to get dismantled one by one in the not so distant future.

Sleep tight T007 ;)
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
Federer was up against a prime Djokovic when he himself was approaching his mid 30’s. His ground game had declined significantly and Djokovic was at the peak of his abilities. The fact is Wimbledon is a baseliner’s game now and a prime Djokovic is just a better player overall player than an old Federer. Djokovic was simply the better player in the 2014 and 2015 finals.
I don’t wanna hear that then clearly djokovic and his rival beat him when it comes to longevity.
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
Learn to read my friend, it will help you in the long run. My post clearly singled out that Nadal as a teenager was schooling Federer during his so called peak years. You know, the years where Rafa was owning your idols rear end with a 6/2 H2H in slam finals 2005-2009.

You obviously don't know that much about tennis history either, Roger never won a Wimbledon on fast grass. Wimbledon slowed down the grass for the 2002 season.

During those grand slam finals Federer faced Aggassi who was well past his prime and needed cortisone injections to be able to walk onto court, a 20 year old Djokovic and a 21 year old Murray both far from the level they would eventually reach and to be considered rivals. The others he faced during this period (Roddick, Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling) had a total of one grand slam between the four of them. We have Nadal who is a clay courter (still at that point) getting to three Wimbledon finals, what does that tell you about the competition back then regardless if the court was slowed down, it was the polar opposite to clay.

Grands Slam Finals 2005-2009

Australian Open 2005 Safin df Hewitt
French Open 2005 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2005 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2005 Federer df Aggasi (35)

Australian Open 2006 Federer df Baghdatis
French Open 2006 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2006 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2006 Federer df Roddick

Australian Open 2007 Federer df Gonzalez
French Open 2007 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2007 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2007 Federer df Djokovic (20)

Australian Open 2008 Federer df Tsonga
French Open 2008 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2008 Nadal df Federer
US Open 2008 Federer df Murray (21)

Australian Open 2009 Nadal df Federer
French Open 2009 Federer df Soderling
Wimbledon 2009 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2009 Del Potro (21) df Federer

There is NO WAY Federer would have 20 grand slams to his name if he had to face peak Djokovic, Murray, Warwinka while still having to deal with Nadal during 2005-2009. This was a truely weak era, people can disagree and that is totally fine but just take a look at who he had to beat for the titles.

Sampras's 14 Grand Slam finals wins

Win1990US OpenHardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 6–2

Win1993WimbledonGrassJim Courier7–6(7–3), 7–6(8–6), 3–6, 6–3

Win1993US Open (2)HardCédric Pioline6–4, 6–4, 6–3

Win1994Australian OpenHardTodd Martin7–6(7–4), 6–4, 6–4

Win1994Wimbledon (2)GrassGoran Ivanišević7–6(7–2), 7–6(7–5), 6–0

Win1995Wimbledon (3)GrassBoris Becker6–7(5–7), 6–2, 6–4, 6–2
Win1995US Open (3)HardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 4–6, 7–5
Win1996US Open (4)HardMichael Chang6–1, 6–4, 7–6(7–3)
Win1997Australian Open (2)HardCarlos Moyá6–2, 6–3, 6–3
Win1997Wimbledon (4)GrassCédric Pioline6–4, 6–2, 6–4
Win1998Wimbledon (5)GrassGoran Ivanišević6–7(2–7), 7–6(11–9), 6–4, 3–6, 6–2
Win1999Wimbledon (6)GrassAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 7–5
Win2000Wimbledon (7)GrassPatrick Rafter6–7(10–12), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 6–2


Win2002US Open (5)HardAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 5–7, 6–4
Apart from Todd Martin & Cedric Pioline every other opponent was or became a Grand Slam Champion unlike Federer's GS Final contemporaries (Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling)

Weakasses like me aren't pulling stats out of our rear end, there's a reason why a lot of us feel like this, I don't envy you as you have to prepare for your Idols records to get dismantled one by one in the not so distant future.

Sleep tight T007 ;)
THANK YOU.
We need more Petefans to speak truth to power. I feel like I'm sailing the ship alone most of the time.
 
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T007

Professional
Learn to read my friend, it will help you in the long run. My post clearly singled out that Nadal as a teenager was schooling Federer during his so called peak years. You know, the years where Rafa was owning your idols rear end with a 6/2 H2H in slam finals 2005-2009.

You obviously don't know that much about tennis history either, Roger never won a Wimbledon on fast grass. Wimbledon slowed down the grass for the 2002 season.

During those grand slam finals Federer faced Aggassi who was well past his prime and needed cortisone injections to be able to walk onto court, a 20 year old Djokovic and a 21 year old Murray both far from the level they would eventually reach and to be considered rivals. The others he faced during this period (Roddick, Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling) had a total of one grand slam between the four of them. We have Nadal who is a clay courter (still at that point) getting to three Wimbledon finals, what does that tell you about the competition back then regardless if the court was slowed down, it was the polar opposite to clay.

Grands Slam Finals 2005-2009

Australian Open 2005 Safin df Hewitt
French Open 2005 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2005 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2005 Federer df Aggasi (35)

Australian Open 2006 Federer df Baghdatis
French Open 2006 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2006 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2006 Federer df Roddick

Australian Open 2007 Federer df Gonzalez
French Open 2007 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2007 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2007 Federer df Djokovic (20)

Australian Open 2008 Federer df Tsonga
French Open 2008 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2008 Nadal df Federer
US Open 2008 Federer df Murray (21)

Australian Open 2009 Nadal df Federer
French Open 2009 Federer df Soderling
Wimbledon 2009 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2009 Del Potro (21) df Federer

There is NO WAY Federer would have 20 grand slams to his name if he had to face peak Djokovic, Murray, Warwinka while still having to deal with Nadal during 2005-2009. This was a truely weak era, people can disagree and that is totally fine but just take a look at who he had to beat for the titles.

Sampras's 14 Grand Slam finals wins

Win1990US OpenHardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 6–2

Win1993WimbledonGrassJim Courier7–6(7–3), 7–6(8–6), 3–6, 6–3

Win1993US Open (2)HardCédric Pioline6–4, 6–4, 6–3

Win1994Australian OpenHardTodd Martin7–6(7–4), 6–4, 6–4

Win1994Wimbledon (2)GrassGoran Ivanišević7–6(7–2), 7–6(7–5), 6–0

Win1995Wimbledon (3)GrassBoris Becker6–7(5–7), 6–2, 6–4, 6–2
Win1995US Open (3)HardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 4–6, 7–5
Win1996US Open (4)HardMichael Chang6–1, 6–4, 7–6(7–3)
Win1997Australian Open (2)HardCarlos Moyá6–2, 6–3, 6–3
Win1997Wimbledon (4)GrassCédric Pioline6–4, 6–2, 6–4
Win1998Wimbledon (5)GrassGoran Ivanišević6–7(2–7), 7–6(11–9), 6–4, 3–6, 6–2
Win1999Wimbledon (6)GrassAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 7–5
Win2000Wimbledon (7)GrassPatrick Rafter6–7(10–12), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 6–2


Win2002US Open (5)HardAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 5–7, 6–4
Apart from Todd Martin & Cedric Pioline every other opponent was or became a Grand Slam Champion unlike Federer's GS Final contemporaries (Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling)

Weakasses like me aren't pulling stats out of our rear end, there's a reason why a lot of us feel like this, I don't envy you as you have to prepare for your Idols records to get dismantled one by one in the not so distant future.

Sleep tight T007 ;)
Copying those samethings from wikipedia won't change anything. Who were the challenger for Novak last decade Nadal had injury breaks twice in 2012 and 15-16. Basically peak Nadal lost 2 years to injury. Murray got injured post 2013 USO and was a trash in 2014. The biggest rivals for djokovic were Stan and Federer in slams. I mean a 33 year old Fed was the biggest rival of djokovic in his prime when he won 5 slams in 2 years 14-15) what a strong era indeed.

Novaks peak was a mediocore competition with Fed getting old and Nadal and murray getting injured and out of form.

What kind of era we are witnessing today when the Next Gen are mentally so weak that they even struggle to beat each other in slams(Zverev choking a 2-0 lead in last years USO).

ST VINCENT keep sulking...as Federer lives rent free in your mind
 
Copying those samethings from wikipedia won't change anything. Who were the challenger for Novak last decade Nadal had injury breaks twice in 2012 and 15-16. Basically peak Nadal lost 2 years to injury. Murray got injured post 2013 USO and was a trash in 2014. The biggest rivals for djokovic were Stan and Federer in slams. I mean a 33 year old Fed was the biggest rival of djokovic in his prime when he won 5 slams in 2 years 14-15) what a strong era indeed.

Novaks peak was a mediocore competition with Fed getting old and Nadal and murray getting injured and out of form.

What kind of era we are witnessing today when the Next Gen are mentally so weak that they even struggle to beat each other in slams(Zverev choking a 2-0 lead in last years USO).

ST VINCENT keep sulking...as Federer lives rent free in your mind
Copying those same things from wikipedia............ What are you talking about??? They are the stats of who Sampras played in those 14 Grand Slam wins and the caliber of player he had to go through, compared to Federer 2003-2009 it doesn't compare.

Mate, it was a weak era, get over it, maybe go back to your courts with your red Federer bag, black pro staffs with gut mains and Alu Rough crosses, string savers and power pads and take it out on some balls while trying to hit your easter grip forehands but be sure to look over your shoulder because the Djoker is coming and he will take EVERYTHING!!!
 

T007

Professional
Copying those same things from wikipedia............ What are you talking about??? They are the stats of who Sampras played in those 14 Grand Slam wins and the caliber of player he had to go through, compared to Federer 2003-2009 it doesn't compare.

Mate, it was a weak era, get over it, maybe go back to your courts with your red Federer bag, black pro staffs with gut mains and Alu Rough crosses, string savers and power pads and take it out on some balls while trying to hit your easter grip forehands but be sure to look over your shoulder because the Djoker is coming and he will take EVERYTHING!!!
Federer will have his hands full back then. 13- at present was the weakest where all three went out of form but the lost Gen couldn't capitalise.

You go back to Bosnian cave and enjoy some drinks from fountain. Federer is coming with a mission to achieve this summer in Wimbledon.
 
Copying those same things from wikipedia............ What are you talking about??? They are the stats of who Sampras played in those 14 Grand Slam wins and the caliber of player he had to go through, compared to Federer 2003-2009 it doesn't compare.

Mate, it was a weak era, get over it, maybe go back to your courts with your red Federer bag, black pro staffs with gut mains and Alu Rough crosses, string savers and power pads and take it out on some balls while trying to hit your easter grip forehands but be sure to look over your shoulder because the Djoker is coming and he will take EVERYTHING!!!
I hit my easter grip forehand only once a year.

I hope that Djoker doesn't attempt anything stupid: the security around my house is really good.

:cool:
 

Notorious_Junkballer

Professional
How are Nadal and Djokovic's game more flawed compared to Sampras? Sampras's backhand was a huge liability in slower surfaces and part of the reason why he could never do well at RG. There are no tangible weaknesses in Nadal or Djokovic's game at all
You don't consider Nadal's serve a liability?
 

Indigo

Semi-Pro
Are cars from this decade better than those from 90s? Sure they are. Same goes to new players. They are better, just like cars. Maybe they are not classic cars like the cars of olden days, with breathtaking design but they are reliable and high tech instead with good mpg. Players these days get better technology and compared to them older players look obsolete and vintage. They also have better shoes and racquets nowadays.
 

NedStark

Semi-Pro
Sampras without some of his unfortunate injuries would have reduced Agassi's USO title count to a big fat zero - specifically USO 1994 and USO 1999. Note that on US Open hardcourt, Agassi never managed to push Sampras to the fifth set once.
 

Adv. Edberg

Hall of Fame
1) Pete will be known as the greatest player pre-poly.

2) Roger is currently the GOAT after poly..but history is still writing itself.

3) Rafa is the greatest on red clay.. ever

4) Novak will dethrone Roger soon.. maybe this year if he continues to play the way he did today
Nah. You can’t just look at the slam stats. AO wasn’t even considered a slam until the mid 80s
 

JackGates

Legend
Sampras left the scene as the best ever...to me, he and Federer still remains the best and it's hard to choose between the two.

When the likes of Federer came on the scene and destroyed Sampras' records, it didn't make Federer greater to me than Sampras.
Now Federer is getting the same medicine from Nadal and then Djokovic.

Now do I believe this makes Nadal and Djokovic the best I've ever seen? No. Their games seem more flawed to me than Sampras and Federer. Even Agassi and some others impressed me more. But I must too admit that the style of both Nadal and Djokovic isn't that appealing and that has some contributing factor.

Are they great? Of course. Are they looking greater due to a weak era? Yes.

EDIT: what bugs me is that Federer fans won't admit that when Sampras was seen as lesser, he now too is lesser by the exact same arguments due to Nadal and Djokovic.

They cannot move the goalposts if Sampras fans couldn't do the same thing.
I don't grant you the premise that Nole's game is flawed. Plus, I don't grant you the premise that your achievements are lesser if you have a flawed game since you have to have other stuff to compensate for that. Like Nadal's fitness and mentality, so they even themselves out.

Also, if your forehand is 10 and your backhand 5, and one guy has 7-7, yes he is more complete, but who cares, since you just blast winners and beat him preventing him to go to your weakness. Who cares.
 

JackGates

Legend
Are cars from this decade better than those from 90s? Sure they are. Same goes to new players. They are better, just like cars. Maybe they are not classic cars like the cars of olden days, with breathtaking design but they are reliable and high tech instead with good mpg. Players these days get better technology and compared to them older players look obsolete and vintage. They also have better shoes and racquets nowadays.
So, does this means Trump is a greater general than Caesar, just because he is commander of an army with greater technology?

So, this means they aren't better, they just have better technology. I could argue that without technology older players would be better, since they lived in tougher times and had tougher lives. Also, there was less pollution and junk food, so they were healthier too.
 

Tennisbg

Professional
Federer is better and greater than Sampras, but you had Nadal and Djokovic combined to be better and greater than Federer.

What's next? Sampras and Borg combined is better and greater than Federer ?
We do not need them combined, right now the 3 of them are equal. It seems like both will pull ahead of Federer, but lets wait and see.
 
You go back to Bosnian cave and enjoy some drinks from fountain. Federer is coming with a mission to achieve this summer in Wimbledon.
You keep drinking the Cool Aid if you think Federer has any chance of winning Wimbledon lol.

2019, 40-15 was his and he couldn't close it out, he won't be getting that close ever again.

You remember that right? You probably walked around numb for a month after that experience. But you're probably used to your boy loosing from match point up, he's only done it 23 times in his career. Like you said before, he could of had 25+ by now lol.
 
Sampras is lesser overall because of his big weakness on clay (relative to his stature) and lack of consistency on slow HC. His peak/prime on medium&fast surfaces, though, was up there with anyone's, and his slow HC peak (AO, Miami) was actually great as well but lasted short so he loses in the longer run.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Sampras also dominated all his close rivals.

And never cried because he lost, or threw a match on purpose because he feared his next rivals.
True--Federer had such a sense of entitlement, that he cried a ocean full of tears when he was legitimately defeated, and yes, he bailed on matches. Sampras never pulled crap like that.
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
Sampras is lesser overall because of his big weakness on clay (relative to his stature) and lack of consistency on slow HC. His peak/prime on medium&fast surfaces, though, was up there with anyone's, and his slow HC peak (AO, Miami) was actually great as well but lasted short so he loses in the longer run.
By the same argument though, Fed has never won a fast slam and actually performed somewhat poorly in Paris, one of the few medium-fast hardcourts on the Tour.
 
it’s comparing apples and oranges really. novaks game isn’t flawed for these surfaces but on fast surfaces his game is a HUGE liability. (Wimbledon 2012?) Give Sampras year round fast surfaces and people would think there are no holes in his game either
 

Beckerserve

Legend
How are Nadal and Djokovic's game more flawed compared to Sampras? Sampras's backhand was a huge liability in slower surfaces and part of the reason why he could never do well at RG. There are no tangible weaknesses in Nadal or Djokovic's game at all
Rafa volleys are woeful technically. His ROS for me is poor. Standing that far back is not how to return serves on anything but treacle paces courts.
Djokovic FH is technically suspect and his overheads are poor.
 
By the same argument though, Fed has never won a fast slam and actually performed somewhat poorly in Paris, one of the few medium-fast hardcourts on the Tour.
2003 WB was fast enough to allow consistent s&v on 1st serve, Borg-style. Telling enough to see he wouldn't be lost in a more varied time.

Paris isn't that fast; Shanghai was faster when Federer won it. Plus he never played Paris Masters at his very peak at all. Three prime level showings (07, 10, 11): one win, one loss to peak Bandy and one lolchoke to Monfils. Standard stuff really.
 

BauerAlmeida

Professional
Federer will also lose in 2nd round of his best slam to a journeyman? Wow, at least it will be when he's 41 and not 31. But hey, it's not the final.
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
Federer will also lose in 2nd round of his best slam to a journeyman? Wow, at least it will be when he's 41 and not 31. But hey, it's not the final.
Using recovery juices that weren't possible or even legal in Pete's time. Yes, apples to apples indeed Doc. :-D Not to mention Fed is still trying to defend his records against rivals he failed to put to bed :cry:
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
2003 WB was fast enough to allow consistent s&v on 1st serve, Borg-style. Telling enough to see he wouldn't be lost in a more varied time.

Paris isn't that fast; Shanghai was faster when Federer won it. Plus he never played Paris Masters at his very peak at all. Three prime level showings (07, 10, 11): one win, one loss to peak Bandy and one lolchoke to Monfils. Standard stuff really.
Not standard for a prime Fed to go 1/3 at a "fast" even when its supposed to be his bread and butter, right? I mean he's the only player who could "play across all eras" so surely he should clean up at the fast events against a baselining tour?
Also, doesn't Nole have more Shanghai wins than Fed?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Nadal Djokovic matches are the most intense and insane feats of athletic tennis in history. Anyone who watches their H2H matches and finds them unappealing doesn’t appreciate tennis or greatness.
Sure, but let's not forget that they've had only 2 great slam matches since 2014. Otherwise their rivalry hasn't really delivered after Nadal exited his prime and shortly after Djokovic.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Learn to read my friend, it will help you in the long run. My post clearly singled out that Nadal as a teenager was schooling Federer during his so called peak years. You know, the years where Rafa was owning your idols rear end with a 6/2 H2H in slam finals 2005-2009.

You obviously don't know that much about tennis history either, Roger never won a Wimbledon on fast grass. Wimbledon slowed down the grass for the 2002 season.

During those grand slam finals Federer faced Aggassi who was well past his prime and needed cortisone injections to be able to walk onto court, a 20 year old Djokovic and a 21 year old Murray both far from the level they would eventually reach and to be considered rivals. The others he faced during this period (Roddick, Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling) had a total of one grand slam between the four of them. We have Nadal who is a clay courter (still at that point) getting to three Wimbledon finals, what does that tell you about the competition back then regardless if the court was slowed down, it was the polar opposite to clay.

Grands Slam Finals 2005-2009

Australian Open 2005 Safin df Hewitt
French Open 2005 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2005 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2005 Federer df Aggasi (35)

Australian Open 2006 Federer df Baghdatis
French Open 2006 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2006 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2006 Federer df Roddick

Australian Open 2007 Federer df Gonzalez
French Open 2007 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2007 Federer df Nadal
US Open 2007 Federer df Djokovic (20)

Australian Open 2008 Federer df Tsonga
French Open 2008 Nadal df Federer
Wimbledon 2008 Nadal df Federer
US Open 2008 Federer df Murray (21)

Australian Open 2009 Nadal df Federer
French Open 2009 Federer df Soderling
Wimbledon 2009 Federer df Roddick
US Open 2009 Del Potro (21) df Federer

There is NO WAY Federer would have 20 grand slams to his name if he had to face peak Djokovic, Murray, Warwinka while still having to deal with Nadal during 2005-2009. This was a truely weak era, people can disagree and that is totally fine but just take a look at who he had to beat for the titles.

Sampras's 14 Grand Slam finals wins

Win1990US OpenHardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 6–2

Win1993WimbledonGrassJim Courier7–6(7–3), 7–6(8–6), 3–6, 6–3

Win1993US Open (2)HardCédric Pioline6–4, 6–4, 6–3

Win1994Australian OpenHardTodd Martin7–6(7–4), 6–4, 6–4

Win1994Wimbledon (2)GrassGoran Ivanišević7–6(7–2), 7–6(7–5), 6–0

Win1995Wimbledon (3)GrassBoris Becker6–7(5–7), 6–2, 6–4, 6–2
Win1995US Open (3)HardAndre Agassi6–4, 6–3, 4–6, 7–5
Win1996US Open (4)HardMichael Chang6–1, 6–4, 7–6(7–3)
Win1997Australian Open (2)HardCarlos Moyá6–2, 6–3, 6–3
Win1997Wimbledon (4)GrassCédric Pioline6–4, 6–2, 6–4
Win1998Wimbledon (5)GrassGoran Ivanišević6–7(2–7), 7–6(11–9), 6–4, 3–6, 6–2
Win1999Wimbledon (6)GrassAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 7–5
Win2000Wimbledon (7)GrassPatrick Rafter6–7(10–12), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 6–2


Win2002US Open (5)HardAndre Agassi6–3, 6–4, 5–7, 6–4
Apart from Todd Martin & Cedric Pioline every other opponent was or became a Grand Slam Champion unlike Federer's GS Final contemporaries (Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Tsonga, Soderling)

Weakasses like me aren't pulling stats out of our rear end, there's a reason why a lot of us feel like this, I don't envy you as you have to prepare for your Idols records to get dismantled one by one in the not so distant future.

Sleep tight T007 ;)
Your entire post is idiotic beyond belief so I'm not gonna bother with it.

Same old rehashed arguments over and over with little substance.

LMAO at Nadal schooling Fed as a teenager. 20+ year olds aren't teenagers anymore, buddy.
 
Not standard for a prime Fed to go 1/3 at a "fast" even when its supposed to be his bread and butter, right? I mean he's the only player who could "play across all eras" so surely he should clean up at the fast events against a baselining tour?
Also, doesn't Nole have more Shanghai wins than Fed?
Pfft, Sampras has 2 fall masters despite constantly playing them throughout his prime. Federer has 4 despite mostly missing them in his peak/prime. That's no indicator on its own.
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
Your entire post is idiotic beyond belief so I'm not gonna bother with it.

Same old rehashed arguments over and over with little substance.

LMAO at Nadal schooling Fed as a teenager. 20+ year olds aren't teenagers anymore, buddy.
And your inability to deal with/respond to them is as timeless as the arguments themselves, a lasting sign of their validity. Maybe take a breath, do a downward dog and come back when you can refute his claims?
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
Pfft, Sampras has 2 fall masters despite constantly playing them throughout his prime. Federer has 4 despite mostly missing them in his peak/prime. That's no indicator on its own.
Sampras played and won more fast events than Fed, stop reaching. Fed has just a few tournaments that would even qualify as true "medium" speed events and his performance has always been mediocre. Nole has more Shanghais than Fedster for a start despite being a grinder/counterpuncher/pusher/ugly tennis player etc. etc.
 
Sampras played and won more fast events than Fed, stop reaching. Fed has just a few tournaments that would even qualify as true "medium" speed events and his performance has always been mediocre.
Nothing mediocre about schooling Berdych/Tsonga in 2011 Paris or prime Djokovic in 2014 Shanghai. And 2006 Madrid for the highest level of course, sure Bandy and Gonzo were kinda lame but it took Zonerer to expose them so hard as to force-feed a beautiful bagel to either.
 

GhostofPetros

Semi-Pro
Nothing mediocre about schooling Berdych/Tsonga in 2011 Paris or prime Djokovic in 2014 Shanghai. And 2006 Madrid for the highest level of course, sure Bandy and Gonzo were kinda lame but it took Zonerer to expose them so hard as to force-feed a beautiful bagel to either.
You know he specifically told the tournament director he didn't like the surface at Paris right? And the tournament director changed the surface after that conversation?
 
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