What happened to the 2011 Djoker??

90's Clay

Banned
The way Nole was playing that year, its impossible to duplicate. Pretty much everything fell into place for him.
 

clayman2000

Hall of Fame
Mental issues aside, it was always going to be virtually impossible to sustain that level of play.

You can make a real legitimate argument that his 2011 level of play was even better than 05 - 07 Federer because he had an in form nadal, in form Federer and in form Murray to deal with
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
He caught everybody by surprise in 2011 especially Rafa. His main rivals begin to adopt in 2012. Rafa already begin to do his homework after 2011 Wimbledon defeat.
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Evolution happened. Rafeinstein solved the Joko 2.0 puzzle. Joko 2.0 played brilliant during the US Open final, but brilliant isn't enough any more,now he needs to evolve to Joko 3.0.
 

clayman2000

Hall of Fame
I understand but what exactly was it that made him so good that year??

1. Improved serve. The DF's that plagued him in the past and are starting to come back, pretty much disappeared.

2. Improved conditioning. One thing that he really upped in the 2010 offseason (due in part to the gluten free diet) was his conditioning. Pre-2011 Djoker could have easily lost to Wawrinka, or Delpo at Wimby

3. Sustainable confidence. A confident Djoker is a scary one because he just goes off on winners. His win streak to start the season made him believe he could do just about anything.

4. Puzzled Rafa. Rafa was without a doubt the 2nd best player on tour, would have been a worthy no 1 any other year, but when Rafa lost those 2 clay matches in Madrid and Rome a mental block emerged.

So what changed since 2011:
1. DF's are back
2. He just doesnt have the confidence / nerves of steel to continuously hit winners like he did before
3. Rafa adapted his game
 

martini1

Hall of Fame
The 2011 Djoker was a cyborg, with super human reaction time and endurance. After that his body slowly breaks down. You can see he can no longer constantly return first serves deep right at the baseline.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Nadal's level raised, that's for sure, and Djokovic's struggles have probably got to do with people having a better idea what to expect from him, and being the king, rather than the usurper. "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown" is the line, and it's true. It's not easy being the guy on top that is expected to win every match, and who everyone is gunning for. He's definitely wilted under the weight of expectation.
 

Rjtennis

Hall of Fame
Nadal is in the zone now like Nole was in 2011. Whoever hold the confidence is the best player. Everything was going his way in 2011 and he even got down right lucky sometimes.
 
Evolution happened. Rafeinstein solved the Joko 2.0 puzzle. Joko 2.0 played brilliant during the US Open final, but brilliant isn't enough any more,now he needs to evolve to Joko 3.0.

This pretty much sums it up. I'm sure during his time off Rafa was studying and prepping on how to take on Djokovic.
 

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
Much of it is mental. He slowly began losing the mental edge over Nadal in 2012. Following the 5th set at RG in 2013, it was gone.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I understand but what exactly was it that made him so good that year??

Desire, confidence, fitness, and most importantly, out-Nadalling Nadal. Nadal was really taken by surprise by Djokovic's 2011 form. It shook Nadal to his core, and he needed time to deal with it.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Djoker's BH is not a weapon anymore. He can't drive with ferocity DTL and hit clean winners off that end like he was doing in 2011,made a thread on it actually.
That was his money shot and it's got lost,I guess it's the hardest shot to execute on a consistent basis with conviction which is what makes ****** tough to beat because that shot has to be in full form to throw Ralph off his moonballing rhythm/change rally direction.
RG 13 and all other losses was really a consequence of that but IMO RG 13 loss sealed his fate in a future matchup with Ralph because even the mental edge on which he basically won AO 12 was lost, so now Nole has nothing on him. Looking back playing MC 12 in the state he was in was a really dumb move by him and his team.
Nadulltards can brag about Ralph improving all they want but Ralph was clearly defending for most of the third set as per usual and we could clearly see Novak lost today because he couldnt execute and was committing blunder after blunder and that ultimately cost him. How many UEs did Novak 2.0 make? Definitely not 75!
 
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Crose

Professional
Djokovic played with a bigger sense of purpose in 2011. He hadn't really accomplished much aside from his 2008 slam and was on the verge of becoming one of those guys like Nalbandian or Safin who vastly underachieved. I think he had enough of that, and worked like crazy to improve. He got stronger, more durable, beefed up his shots, became more confident, mentally tougher, and had a ruthlessness about him. Now that he's secured his place as an all-time great it seems like he's kind of complacent, like he knows he can either win a slam or get to the final without his 100%. Unfortunately for him there's another guy on tour who won't let that fly.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Djokovic played with a bigger sense of purpose in 2011. He hadn't really accomplished much aside from his 2008 slam and was on the verge of becoming one of those guys like Nalbandian or Safin who vastly underachieved. I think he had enough of that, and worked like crazy to improve. He got stronger, more durable, beefed up his shots, became more confident, mentally tougher, and had a ruthlessness about him. Now that he's secured his place as an all-time great it seems like he's kind of complacent, like he knows he can either win a slam or get to the final without his 100%. Unfortunately for him there's another guy on tour who won't let that fly.

No complacency, just can't execute anymore, esp his DTL BH when he was hitting clean winners of that side. I'd like to know how many DTL BH winners Novak has hit in the entire match. And this USO speed is an utter disgrace,ball's kicking up like crazy,this is fast HC FFS!
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Mental issues aside, it was always going to be virtually impossible to sustain that level of play.

You can make a real legitimate argument that his 2011 level of play was even better than 05 - 07 Federer because he had an in form nadal, in form Federer and in form Murray to deal with

Why would it be impossible for such great players like Djokovic & Co?
I can see why that would be the case at the club level (i.e. for me), but not for him.
 
Nole was at his 2011 level in the second set. It was breathtaking but he also seems to have these listless and distracted moments now as well.

It happens, levels rise and fall.
 

papertank

Hall of Fame
It's all about confidence. Djokovic was riding an insane wave of confidence all throughout 2011 that allowed him to play his best so often. It's not like he's just gotten worse, Djokovic shows that level of play occasionally nowadays (think AO or Monte-Carlo this year or the 2nd set in tonight's final) but it's just less often that he brings that level to the table anymore because his self-belief isn't as high.
 

DeShaun

Banned
Too much heat, they were on to him. He had to stop using.


I agree. It is interesting to see our peers advancing such opinions as, "So and so adapted to overcome this or that rival," or "He has changed his grip and THAT's how he's been able to add 10mph to his serve." When it's kind of obvious that PEDs are primarily what have been separating the champions from the also-rans.

For the record, I have long been convinced that Novak was taking something very strong during '11. Also for the record, I believe Nadal has long had access to the best, most tricky to detect PEDs anywhere.
 

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
Nadal and Tio Toni were right weren't they? Djoker couldn't keep his hot streak going forever and now he's Nadal's pigeon again.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Evolution happened. Rafeinstein solved the Joko 2.0 puzzle. Joko 2.0 played brilliant during the US Open final, but brilliant isn't enough any more,now he needs to evolve to Joko 3.0.

yep. rafa isn't exchanging groundstrokes from 10 feet behind the baseline anymore. he's moved in and taking the ball earlier which is robbing djoker of time.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Evolution happened. Rafeinstein solved the Joko 2.0 puzzle. Joko 2.0 played brilliant during the US Open final, but brilliant isn't enough any more,now he needs to evolve to Joko 3.0.

Even N-S-K doesn't troll this much, this guy is off the charts. Ralph wins and Naturale reacts like a virgin would after getting laid for the first time.
 

Jay_The_Nomad

Professional
The main difference is the confidence and the mental approach to the game.

When Djokovic had his breakthrough year in 2011, something just clicked in his head and he started playing his matches more seriously with a carefree arrogance. The success came and it fed itself and the djokovic success machine just took off.
 
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Fintft

G.O.A.T.
The main difference is the confidence and the mental approach to the game.

When Djokovic had his breakthrough year in 2011, something just clicked in his head and he started playing his matches more seriously with a carefree arrogance. The success came and it fed itself and the djokovic success machine just took off.

And where is that arrogance now? I mean how come he can't sustain it?
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
As I have repeatedly said, Djoker made a mistake firing Dr Igor.

He took away the 2011 Djoker 2.0 with him for good.
 

Jay_The_Nomad

Professional
And where is that arrogance now? I mean how come he can't sustain it?

In 2011, he was coming in as an outsider to the whole Federer / Nadal domination. He was getting criticized for tanking, mental weakness, horsing around in the dressing room with all his simulations etc. He probably said F this status quo, I'm going to swing away and show them who is boss. And in 2011 he really did show everyone who was boss.

The problem now from 2012 to 2013 is that he is now THE man to beat in the ATp tour. Federer is struggling with form, Nadal was MIA and Murray was Murray. That old nothing to lose mentality doesn't really work anymore. He is number 1, won half a dozen grandslams with a possibility of leaving a real mark in the history of the sport. In fact he has lots to lose. So I think he needs to revise whatever mental approach he is taking to the game because it doesn't work in his current position.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
In 2011, he was coming in as an outsider to the whole Federer / Nadal domination. He was getting criticized for tanking, mental weakness, horsing around in the dressing room with all his simulations etc. He probably said F this status quo, I'm going to swing away and show them who is boss. And in 2011 he really did show everyone who was boss.

The problem now from 2012 to 2013 is that he is now THE man to beat in the ATp tour. Federer is struggling with form, Nadal was MIA and Murray was Murray. That old nothing to lose mentality doesn't really work anymore. He is number 1, won half a dozen grandslams with a possibility of leaving a real mark in the history of the sport. In fact he has lots to lose. So I think he needs to revise whatever mental approach he is taking to the game because it doesn't work in his current position.

Eaxctly! Back then he had nothing to lose. Before the North American hardcourt swing, Uncle Toni had said that Rafa had no fear as he's got nothing to lose now. The result? Montreal-Cincy-USO triplete!

Djokovic now is the man to beat, the hunted. Rafa has decided to go after him the way he did against Roger Federer. Nadal has also realised that he doesn't have many years left to play pro tennis. So he's gonna try to win as many big tournaments as he can before he hangs up his racquet.
Australian Open 2014 will be another war. I'm sure after failing to defend his US Open title, Murray will also target the AO.
Exciting times ahead, folks!

Oh and Djokovic hasn't beaten Nadal on a hardcourt since January 2012.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
You can only showcase the form the other player allows. Nadal has got Nole down like a science now, which wasn't the case in 2011. I don't think the result of the 2013 final would have been any different no matter which version of Nole showed up.
 

tennis4jags

Semi-Pro
In 2011, he was coming in as an outsider to the whole Federer / Nadal domination. He was getting criticized for tanking, mental weakness, horsing around in the dressing room with all his simulations etc. He probably said F this status quo, I'm going to swing away and show them who is boss. And in 2011 he really did show everyone who was boss.

The problem now from 2012 to 2013 is that he is now THE man to beat in the ATp tour. Federer is struggling with form, Nadal was MIA and Murray was Murray. That old nothing to lose mentality doesn't really work anymore. He is number 1, won half a dozen grandslams with a possibility of leaving a real mark in the history of the sport. In fact he has lots to lose. So I think he needs to revise whatever mental approach he is taking to the game because it doesn't work in his current position.

His arrogance and ego, that "am the boss" is killing now. Nobody can sustain with such mentality in this sport. He should have learned from his quick predecessor Federer, how he was has maintaining the position for 4-5 consecutive season.

I still remember, 2011 Madrid celebration shows his true class, entire Dj team was screaming/drinking/dancing like they won Rolland Garros. pitty boy.. :twisted:
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
First, it was obvious that he couldn't keep that level up.

Second, people speak of Djokovic's 2011 as if it is the norm. The reality is that he has been playing like he is playing now for far longer than he ever played in 2011.

In many ways you could say that 2011 was an anomaly, although that isn't to say he is incapable of replicating that form entirely, whether it is just for one match or for a longer stretch.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
You can only showcase the form the other player allows. Nadal has got Nole down like a science now, which wasn't the case in 2011. I don't think the result of the 2013 final would have been any different no matter which version of Nole showed up.

There are some great responses in this thread, but this one is my favorite.

In 2011 Nadal was caught off guard and his confidence lagged, momentarily, and then like you said, he decided to approach it the same way he had approached Federer.

This USO was the first time in a while that Nadal had that Alpha Male look throughout the match in a long time. He played as fearlessly as he used to, while he was scaling the mountain.

He didn't get upset when Nole hit some great strokes, but kept fighting, something he hadn't done as much in recent encounters. He seemed to have the idea that no matter what he was going to keep fighting and scrapping.

He did both admirably.
 

robert.s

Professional
There are some great responses in this thread, but this one is my favorite.

In 2011 Nadal was caught off guard and his confidence lagged, momentarily, and then like you said, he decided to approach it the same way he had approached Federer.

This USO was the first time in a while that Nadal had that Alpha Male look throughout the match in a long time. He played as fearlessly as he used to, while he was scaling the mountain.

He didn't get upset when Nole hit some great strokes, but kept fighting, something he hadn't done as much in recent encounters. He seemed to have the idea that no matter what he was going to keep fighting and scrapping.

He did both admirably.

Nah, Nadal played Djokovic like he plays Federer, but this time it worked. It's the only game he has. Put the ball in play as long as possible and expect the opponent to make the error. Djokovic did plenty of errors and he lost. Fair and square.
 
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