What happened ? Why are all the classics cheap now ?

#1
Max 200 g 50 bux
Pumas super 65
Pro staffs
Prestige’s both for 90 bux
Prince graphite’s 70 bux
5 yrs or less they all were in the 200 to 300 Mark
What gives ?
I’m not complaining but it always seems to go like this.. when I finally have some cash to spend I don’t want these anymore the luster from my youth has gone and made way for only a couple different head frames .. but really ? Why so much cheaper now?
 
#3
Max 200 g 50 bux
Pumas super 65
Pro staffs
Prestige’s both for 90 bux
Prince graphite’s 70 bux
5 yrs or less they all were in the 200 to 300 Mark
What gives ?
I’m not complaining but it always seems to go like this.. when I finally have some cash to spend I don’t want these anymore the luster from my youth has gone and made way for only a couple different head frames .. but really ? Why so much cheaper now?
Less and less people have good taste.
 

Xfimpg

Professional
#4
I've found it's more a function of how many are available per model on the bay. Like the Dunlop max 400i, shouldn't be that expensive but they're asking $80+ for a well-used model.
I think there was a wave of purchasing that stopped a couple of years ago, almost like it was new players discovering older racquets and they got the " I gotta have one " bug.
And there's the fact that small head sizes are not easy to use against today's super-spinning 100 sq/in.
 

max

Hall of Fame
#5
When the interwebs were first woven, in the darkest times, came from them the new bay of E, and from this startling new source came old and vintage goods, tried and true in the crux of fire, etc., etc.

Anyway. . . I remember when a 200G was being sold for a coupla hundred bucks!
 

jonestim

Hall of Fame
#6
Were the $200-$300 ones selling or just wishful listings that never sold while actual auction prices were much less?

Five years ago I was able to buy POG OSs on the bay for $40 and Mids for $35.

I sold quite a few classics (mostly about 3-5 years ago) that I bought in thrift stores as well.

Max 200G in 8 or 9 condition for $75
Head PT280 - $100
Head Radical Tour - $60
Prince Graphite OS - $35
Prince Graphite Mid - $30 and $58
PS 85s - $65, $80, $ 95, $125
PS 6.1 Classic - $30
 
#8
Check back in July when Wimbledon is on and most of the country isn’t covered in snow and rain. It will spike back up.

It’s true though, they went down a bit from a few years ago. I no longer frequent thrift shops, as it appears there are many more flippers out there. When I see racquets, there are nothing worth even investing 5 bucks in. My 2 cents.
 
#9
Sampras has fallen into long ago history and with him goes the legend of the PS 85 and the Isle of Vincent. High schoolers I work with have no idea who Sampras, Agassi, or even Roddick are. Never heard of them.
Someone Photoshop a gif of a close up of almost stoic Ivan Lendl shedding on tear down his face with JMac in the background smashing his Dunlop frame in rage.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
#10
The period from 5-12 years ago were when a lot of ppl who collect classic tennis gear first discovered the online marketplace (the big auction site, this message board, etc.). So for a few or several years a lot of old and rare racquets traded hands at high prices. Over the years, more old stuff got dug out of closets, basements, attics and got sold now that more and more people know how to sell stuff online. We’re now at a point where most of us who collect have the racquets that we want, or realize we’ve already spent too much money on stuff that probably won’t be worth much one day and so we’ve all stopped buying. I bought an excellent condition St. Vincent PS85 10 years ago for $240. I don’t think I will ever sell it (unless I’m broke) and I don’t plan to buy any more vintage gear except if very cheap for the condition.
 
#12
I think the reason is "pro stocks". They become the most desirable, and of course the most expensive.
Yep agreed . And most folks have found the old rackets of there youth back in there hands only to rediscover it wasn’t as good as they remember .it def happened to me on most all my sticks I used to play with ,, even the puma and estusa and some older Wilson’s ..
 
#14
I've bout recently a PS 6.0 85 for a 50$ , 8,9/10 condition, nobody bid on it except myself! And a PS 85 (late taiwanese) for 45$ few months ago.

Many PS85 are listed on eee bbay for the same prices! No complaint, Finally I can buy some backup with a fistful of dollars:giggle:... Get three coffins ready!


High schoolers I work with have no idea who Sampras, Agassi, or even Roddick are. Never heard of them.
Match my daily experience.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
#15
There is too much supply of the classic racquets. If you search for "Pro Staff 85 St. Vincent" on fleabay, you'll see 20-30 of them pop up, almost all listed at $200-$300. Most of us who want a St. Vincent already have one but more and more people are in the know now and these have gotten dug out of attics, closets, basements, Goodwill stores so the supply keeps expanding while demand is shrinking. Plus no one buys a classic racquet to play with full time. They either go straight into storage or maybe playtested as a novelty item and then go back into storage, so there is no refilling of that demand as with new racquet models which get used, worn, beaten, and thrown away.

I paid $240 for a St. Vincent 10 years ago and I doubt I will be able to sell it for that price every again.
 
#19
That's a good question. I don't think they do and part of the reason is the Tennis Channel. If you don't subscribe you just don't get to see any tennis. They don't even show the finals on the big networks anymore.
 

David Le

Hall of Fame
#20
That's a good question. I don't think they do and part of the reason is the Tennis Channel. If you don't subscribe you just don't get to see any tennis. They don't even show the finals on the big networks anymore.
Maybe ask if they ever searched tennis in YouTube?
 
#22
I've bout recently a PS 6.0 85 for a 50$ , 8,9/10 condition, nobody bid on it except myself! And a PS 85 (late taiwanese) for 45$ few months ago.

Many PS85 are listed on eee bbay for the same prices! No complaint, Finally I can buy some backup with a fistful of dollars:giggle:... Get three coffins ready!



Match my daily experience.
This would cost a fistful of dollars



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#28
You need to search "Sold" listings to see what these racquets actually sell for. The listing prices are not always realistic. Some vendors list items at outrageous asking prices (that can never be realized unless we were experiencing Zimbabwe style inflation) to use them as permanent window displays to draw traffic into their fleabay 'stores'.

I only see one PS85 that supposedly sold for over $1000 in the last few months. It's an NOS BSQ with tags, with a realized price of $2499.99. From the seller's descriptions, I get the sense that he/she likely follows our discussions here (or had at least read the relevant posts in the gazillion PS85 threads). Let's just say that I have my doubts that this particular transaction actually took place. For one thing, shipping on this listing is shown as $1285.77. If these numbers are not accidentally generated by a fleabay server glitch, it shows that the seller had quite a sense of humor, as he/she does have a legitimate record of selling items at non-fictional prices. Maybe it's just something sellers do to combat boredom? Not that long ago, this same person 'sold' another BSQ with identical descriptions that was listed at a jaw-dropping BIN price of $4999.99 (though in that instance he/she is recorded as having accepted a lower offer of unknown amount)!

Personally, I fully expect to take a loss on everything I've bought from fleabay over the last few years (for most of which I have increasingly become the sole bidder), because I just don't see these racquets ever acquiring the same significance or appeal to those who are more than 10 years younger than me. Tennis is a living sport. More racquets are made every day, more (future) legendary players are born every day, more personal memories are formed every day. Without shared experience, shared appeal must be actively cultivated. I don't think there has been much of that in our hobby.
 
#29
Plus even though we love playing with classics (pumas in my case) if we have any hope of staying competitive then they stay in the cupboard while some babolat is used to actually win something.
 
#32
You need to search "Sold" listings to see what these racquets actually sell for. The listing prices are not always realistic. Some vendors list items at outrageous asking prices (that can never be realized unless we were experiencing Zimbabwe style inflation) to use them as permanent window displays to draw traffic into their fleabay 'stores'.

I only see one PS85 that supposedly sold for over $1000 in the last few months. It's an NOS BSQ with tags, with a realized price of $2499.99. From the seller's descriptions, I get the sense that he/she likely follows our discussions here (or had at least read the relevant posts in the gazillion PS85 threads). Let's just say that I have my doubts that this particular transaction actually took place. For one thing, shipping on this listing is shown as $1285.77. If these numbers are not accidentally generated by a fleabay server glitch, it shows that the seller had quite a sense of humor, as he/she does have a legitimate record of selling items at non-fictional prices. Maybe it's just something sellers do to combat boredom? Not that long ago, this same person 'sold' another BSQ with identical descriptions that was listed at a jaw-dropping BIN price of $4999.99 (though in that instance he/she is recorded as having accepted a lower offer of unknown amount)!

Personally, I fully expect to take a loss on everything I've bought from fleabay over the last few years (for most of which I have increasingly become the sole bidder), because I just don't see these racquets ever acquiring the same significance or appeal to those who are more than 10 years younger than me. Tennis is a living sport. More racquets are made every day, more (future) legendary players are born every day, more personal memories are formed every day. Without shared experience, shared appeal must be actively cultivated. I don't think there has been much of that in our hobby.
Great perspective.

The answer to the root question lies not only (partly) in the sliding demographic, but also in the cultural conditioning of the Consumer to buy New for various perceived advantages. Marketing dollars, versus engineering dollars, has steered the product development machine of the racquet industry since 1990 or so; that’s three whole decades.
 
#33
I think there are many reasons why prices are the way they are including:
1. Generational shifts in the age of players and collectors. We may be getting to the stage where the gap in performance between new offering and the old classics is getting too wide along with different playing styles. This is more to do with the average weekend player than your pro player.
2. Once people ask too much for the classics people give up buying them and look for the next wave of racquets to buy, it's like with classic cars, once they are too dear people go cold on them.
3. Alternative ways to spend your money. Once racquets become dear for what they are there is not much left to make. If you have 5 $1000 racquets you might be better unloading them and putting $5000 into s classic car or paying down your home loan where you can make a lot more money.
4. People may be becoming minimalist snd portable with their living arrangements so having a big collection sitting up home may take up too much space.
5. The pro stock thing- they are very expensive to buy. I'd rather get a Volkl C10 Pro or Angel V3 97 for a fraction of the price
6. I think as time goes on with racquets desirability probably becomes more succinct as people become clearer of what is significant as opposed to what is interesting of nostalgic,
Saying all this the question you could ask them is:
A. What are currently the most in demand collectable frames ?
B. What racquets that are cheap now will be valuable in 5 years time and/or maybe 10. Anybody care to comment on this?
 
#34
I think the reason is "pro stocks". They become the most desirable, and of course the most expensive.
Partly true my pow is that even pro stock have declined albeit not as much.pt10 pt57a tgk’s h19 and h22 have gone down round 10-15% lately ... Can be that usd’s have increased in value
 
#35
Å
I think there are many reasons why prices are the way they are including:
1. Generational shifts in the age of players and collectors. We may be getting to the stage where the gap in performance between new offering and the old classics is getting too wide along with different playing styles. This is more to do with the average weekend player than your pro player.
2. Once people ask too much for the classics people give up buying them and look for the next wave of racquets to buy, it's like with classic cars, once they are too dear people go cold on them.
3. Alternative ways to spend your money. Once racquets become dear for what they are there is not much left to make. If you have 5 $1000 racquets you might be better unloading them and putting $5000 into s classic car or paying down your home loan where you can make a lot more money.
4. People may be becoming minimalist snd portable with their living arrangements so having a big collection sitting up home may take up too much space.
5. The pro stock thing- they are very expensive to buy. I'd rather get a Volkl C10 Pro or Angel V3 97 for a fraction of the price
6. I think as time goes on with racquets desirability probably becomes more succinct as people become clearer of what is significant as opposed to what is interesting of nostalgic,
Saying all this the question you could ask them is:
A. What are currently the most in demand collectable frames ?
B. What racquets that are cheap now will be valuable in 5 years time and/or maybe 10. Anybody care to comment on this?
I think there are many reasons why prices are the way they are including:
1. Generational shifts in the age of players and collectors. We may be getting to the stage where the gap in performance between new offering and the old classics is getting too wide along with different playing styles. This is more to do with the average weekend player than your pro player.
2. Once people ask too much for the classics people give up buying them and look for the next wave of racquets to buy, it's like with classic cars, once they are too dear people go cold on them.
3. Alternative ways to spend your money. Once racquets become dear for what they are there is not much left to make. If you have 5 $1000 racquets you might be better unloading them and putting $5000 into s classic car or paying down your home loan where you can make a lot more money.
4. People may be becoming minimalist snd portable with their living arrangements so having a big collection sitting up home may take up too much space.
5. The pro stock thing- they are very expensive to buy. I'd rather get a Volkl C10 Pro or Angel V3 97 for a fraction of the price
6. I think as time goes on with racquets desirability probably becomes more succinct as people become clearer of what is significant as opposed to what is interesting of nostalgic,
Saying all this the question you could ask them is:
A. What are currently the most in demand collectable frames ?
B. What racquets that are cheap now will be valuable in 5 years time and/or maybe 10. Anybody care to comment on this?
Which pro stocks have you tried over the years?
 
#37
I had to rush off on Friday before finishing my post the way I wanted to, so I ended up sounding like a Debbie Downer; which was not my intention.

Yes, the pricing on what we consider to be "classics" is on a downward trend at the moment, for all the reasons many here have enumerated, but things can and will change with the passage of time.

The current market for these things might be driven mainly by nostalgia, which is generational and not sustainable, but if these racquets manage to survive past the next 30 - 50 years, they will be in the hands of people who are motivated by something entirely different. After all, those who pay a fortune today for antique cars, ancient relics, and war souvenirs from past decades and centuries are unlikely to have had any personal experience with those time periods and events. They value these items for their history, for their innate beauty and craftsmanship, and for their rarity. All of these objects were once common, and judged "worthless" by most people who had easy access to them after they stopped being useful. It is only through the efforts of the few who valued these artifacts more than everyone else that the items survived to this day.

Not all of our "classics" will appeal to future collectors; I would readily concede that most of what I have amassed probably won't, but there is also no denying that these racquets are attractive artifacts that perfectly encapsulate the spirit of their time in terms of technological innovation and artistic expression. At a glance, one can easily differentiate a racquet from the '60s vs one from the '70s or '80s, just like contemporary clothing and cars. While no one can predict exactly what people in the future will value, something that is rare, esthetically pleasing, and skillfully put together probably stands a better chance than most to command interest, especially if it had some historical significance.

This is why I think there will be renewed collector interest in racquets made in the '70s and '80s in the (distant?) future, not only because they represent a watershed moment in racquet technology evolution, but also because of the level of creativity made visible through their unprecedented variety in form and manufacture methods. Today's racquets might overpower those made 30 years ago on the court, but to a racquet collector 50 - 100 years from now, there can be no question which ones are more historically significant and interesting. A wall decorated with racquets from 1979 or even 1989 will contain a lot more conversation pieces than one decorated with 2019 offerings.

The one sad and inescapable paradox here is that in order for these racquets to gain value, more of them must be discarded or destroyed through wear and tear, owner neglect, or natural disasters. So the current (and perfectly natural) downward trend in pricing might actually benefit collectors long after we are all gone. So let us . . . rejoice?

 
#42
I think the greater question is why were they ever expensive? They are mass produced tennis rackets, not faberge eggs.

There can't be that many people in love with old rackets out there. Probably all on this forum. Given thousands of these rackets were made and have virtually no value to most people, it's surprising to me there was a huge overprice of these frames.
 
#43
I think the greater question is why were they ever expensive? They are mass produced tennis rackets, not faberge eggs.

There can't be that many people in love with old rackets out there. Probably all on this forum. Given thousands of these rackets were made and have virtually no value to most people, it's surprising to me there was a huge overprice of these frames.
I think that modern garbage rackets are hugely overpriced. We all know where and by whom they made and the production cost of average racquet is about $10-20. Paying attention to low quality the retail price of more than $200 is a pure robbery.
 
#44
I think the greater question is why were they ever expensive? They are mass produced tennis rackets, not faberge eggs.

There can't be that many people in love with old rackets out there. Probably all on this forum. Given thousands of these rackets were made and have virtually no value to most people, it's surprising to me there was a huge overprice of these frames.
They are not Faberge eggs but some of them are egg shaped. And most are high quality product.
 
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