What happened with Fed v. Berdych?

G

Golden

Guest
From 2009 - early 2014, barring one match, Berdych consistently gave Federer trouble. Almost of their matches went the distance with Fed winning, or ended with Berdych winning. The only match that Fed won easily was Paris in 2011.

2014 Dubai F: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 3-6 6-4 6-3
2013 Dubai SF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 3-6 7-6(8) 6-4
2012 US Open QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 7-6(1) 6-4 3-6 6-3
2012 Madrid Masters F: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 3-6 7-5 7-5
2011 Paris Masters SF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-3
2011 Cincinnati Masters QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-2 7-6(3)
2010 Canadian Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-3 5-7 7-6(5)
2010 Wimbledon QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-4 3-6 6-1 6-4
2010 Miami Masters R16: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-4 6-7(3) 7-6(6)
2009 Australian Open R16: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 4-6 6-7(4) 6-4 6-4 6-2

Berdych won 5 of these matches. Fed won 4.

Then, from post Dubai 2014 on, Fed hasn't lost a single set against Berdych. In fact, only one match had a tiebreak, and that was this year's AO.

2016 Australian Open QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 7-6(4) 6-2 6-4
2015 ATP World Tour Finals RR: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-2
2015 Rome Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-3 6-3
2015 Indian Wells Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-0

What changed?
 
N

nowhereman

Guest
Fed started playing more aggressively with the addition of Edberg. That probably threw Berdie off and Fed's fully been in control since.
 

Tenez!

Professional
Perhaps it's easier to predict Berd's shots and prepare for them for a good trainer such as Edberg.
It's not like he's changed much in his strategy since 2004: big whacks from the back of the court, nary a drop shot to be seen.
 
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Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
Federer had a first decline in 2010 and took some time to adjust, meanwhile it was peak Berdych at that time. Now Federer has learned to play with his older body and Berdych himself is declined.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Berdych absolutely owns Federer. I think the reason for this is unlike other big hitters, Federer's strategic niceness never caused him to take it easy on Federer. Whereas other guys who could bully Federer around the court and blow away his soft shots feel bad about it and take it easy on him, costing them the matches, Berdych is (or was) immune to that. He went out there and made Federer look like a child. Well, he did until 2014 - it's only recently that Federer is serving bigger than he ever did and playing his best ever tennis that Berdych's retreated into his shell again.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
How you're explaining recent Murray-Fed H2H, Mainad. Baby Murray was owning peak Fed in their H2H, while O!lderer is dominating Prime Andy?! o_O:confused:

Read my last post! ;)

Seriously, Federer upped his level during the period Andy was recovering from his back surgery. Under Edberg's coaching, Fed's serve improved enormously, just look at the way he served against Andy in their 2015 Wimbledon semi-final! Andy couldn't get a look in on any break points he got. Fed just served his way out of them (typically, his serve often goes awol when playing Djokovic but not against anybody else).

In short, Murray's level declined following his back surgery while Federer's improved. it will be interesting to see how quickly Fed will recover from his own recent knee surgery!
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
It's basically the decline of Berdych and Federer's acceptance that he can't hang in the baseline anymore with power players. Credit to Edberg for making him realize this, hence, the aggresive net play. Should Djokovic's performance take a huge dip, and Federer is still playing like this, we could see Federer lifting another trophy.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Read my last post! ;)

Seriously, Federer upped his level during the period Andy was recovering from his back surgery. Under Edberg's coaching, Fed's serve improved enormously, just look at the way he served against Andy in their 2015 Wimbledon semi-final! Andy couldn't get a look in on any break points he got. Fed just served his way out of them (typically, his serve often goes awol when playing Djokovic but not against anybody else).

In short, Murray's level declined following his back surgery while Federer's improved. it will be interesting to see how quickly Fed will recover from his own recent knee surgery!

Back surgery is more serious than knee surgery as a whole, so Andy's done really well to get back to no. 2 like this. Djokovic/Federer have of course gone up a few notches since 2013, so that's been the main problem.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Read my last post! ;)

Seriously, Federer upped his level during the period Andy was recovering from his back surgery. Under Edberg's coaching, Fed's serve improved enormously, just look at the way he served against Andy in their 2015 Wimbledon semi-final! Andy couldn't get a look in on any break points he got. Fed just served his way out of them (typically, his serve often goes awol when playing Djokovic but not against anybody else).

In short, Murray's level declined following his back surgery while Federer's improved. it will be interesting to see how quickly Fed will recover from his own recent knee surgery!
Lol, I do find it quite funny when you say that Federer's serve goes awol whenever he plays Djokovic Mainad. Au contraire, it's the one shot that actually keeps his matches against Novak so competitive these past couple of years!
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
What about other GS matches they played after Wimbledon 2014? You've got any impressive serve stats from Federer in those?
Maybe he simply felt more under pressure against Djokovic which is obviously a testament to Novak's greatness as a returner and as a fellow all time great and something he should be given credit for. Anyway it's a good thing when Fed's serve isn't firing on all cylinders as I hate seeing GS finals decided on servebotting(bad enough when it occurs in M100s and 500s). Nothing more frustrating than when your favourite player can't get into a match properly due to his opponent constantly firing down aces or unreturnables and I suspect many other Nole fans would agree with me.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe he simply felt more under pressure against Djokovic which is obviously a testament to Novak's greatness as a returner and as a fellow all time great and something he should be given credit for. Anyway it's a good thing when Fed's serve isn't firing on all cylinders as I hate seeing GS finals decided on servebotting(bad enough when it occurs in M100s and 500s). Nothing more frustrating than when your favourite player can't get into a match properly due to his opponent constantly firing down aces or unreturnables and I suspect many other Nole fans would agree with me.
That match against Anderson was pissing me off for the majority of it, so at least I agree with you on this one.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Berdych declined like Federer.

2014 the start of decline for everyone but Djokovic.

I think Tomas' problem is he hasn't grown in the least! He's still playing the same "ball-bashing" game with little improvement! I thought his win over Nadal at the AO last year was a sea-change, but that was more about Rafa's decline; not Tomas coming into his own! ;-(
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe he simply felt more under pressure against Djokovic which is obviously a testament to Novak's greatness as a returner and as a fellow all time great and something he should be given credit for. Anyway it's a good thing when Fed's serve isn't firing on all cylinders as I hate seeing GS finals decided on servebotting(bad enough when it occurs in M100s and 500s). Nothing more frustrating than when your favourite player can't get into a match properly due to his opponent constantly firing down aces or unreturnables and I suspect many other Nole fans would agree with me.
breaking news...Djokovic fans want Djokovic to win slam finals.

He feels more pressure with Novak because he knows he can't hang with him from the baseline on slam surfaces in a B05 and that effects his entire game, including his serve. He is always so tense coming out of the gate.
 
Maybe he simply felt more under pressure against Djokovic which is obviously a testament to Novak's greatness as a returner and as a fellow all time great and something he should be given credit for. Anyway it's a good thing when Fed's serve isn't firing on all cylinders as I hate seeing GS finals decided on servebotting(bad enough when it occurs in M100s and 500s). Nothing more frustrating than when your favourite player can't get into a match properly due to his opponent constantly firing down aces or unreturnables and I suspect many other Nole fans would agree with me.
Roger definitely feels more under pressure facing Novak which is why his serving is often below par when playing against him. The fact is Federer doesn't serve very well when playing Djokovic in GS matches and you are wrong saying that Federer's serve is "the one shot that actually keeps his matches against Novak so competitive these past couple of years!" .
 

Fiero425

Legend
Roger definitely feels more under pressure facing Novak which is why his serving is often below par when playing against him. The fact is Federer doesn't serve very well when playing Djokovic in GS matches and you are wrong saying that Federer's serve is "the one shot that actually keeps his matches against Novak so competitive these past couple of years!" .

Roger has taken advantage of the game Nole's still be vulnerable to; an aggressive player on a fast track! Dubai and Cincy have been Roger's best opportunities and he's won fairly easily both times! If the grass of Wimbledon had gone back to choppy, slick surface, Roger might have taken at least one of those matches in either '14 or '15! ;-)
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Fed's new playing style.

It's helped him against Berdych, Murray, and Djokovic, but I think it's sent him backwards against Nadal and Ferrer.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
um....how has it not sent him backwards against Djokovic too lol.
He's still often competitive with Novak - no way would that have been the case if he was still using Annacone tactics with his more-declined-than-2012 baseline game.
 

Rubens

Hall of Fame
It's that contract with H&M. Those godawful flower dresses and all. But he's released now. Expect him to give Fed trouble like he did in the past.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Roger definitely feels more under pressure facing Novak which is why his serving is often below par when playing against him. The fact is Federer doesn't serve very well when playing Djokovic in GS matches and you are wrong saying that Federer's serve is "the one shot that actually keeps his matches against Novak so competitive these past couple of years!" .
Your first sentence is exactly why I said Djokovic should be given credit as his ROS has a lot to do with this. And I suspect most Fed fans would disagree with you that his serve isn't the main weapon that allows him to be so competitive when he plays Novak these days, especially on quicker surfaces.
 
It is interesting. I do think how well Federer does against Murray and Berdych shows to some extent that Federer is playing better these days than many Federer fans are willing to acknowledge, since many years ago those guys gave Federer a lot more trouble than they do now.

On the flip side though I think Berdych has gotten weaker, he looks less powerful and his whole game is really based almost entirely on power. Federer has figured out how to play him and Berdych while still very powerful isn't explosive enough to hit through Federer anymore, and he really doesn't have a back up plan to attack Federer or win.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
He's still often competitive with Novak - no way would that have been the case if he was still using Annacone tactics with his more-declined-than-2012 baseline game.
eh part of the reason it is declined is cause of the racquet and standing right on the baseline tactics. He's probably declined a bit physically since 2012 but imo his baseline game is disproportionately worse.
 
Fed's new playing style.

It's helped him against Berdych, Murray, and Djokovic, but I think it's sent him backwards against Nadal and Ferrer.

Just curious what you base that on. He barely plays Nadal anymore (and won their only match in the last 2 years) and he has still never lost a match to David Ferrer. I agree on the first part of your statement in absolute.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
It is interesting. I do think how well Federer does against Murray and Berdych shows to some extent that Federer is playing better these days than many Federer fans are willing to acknowledge, since many years ago those guys gave Federer a lot more trouble than they do now.
Sure, Fed is not as awful as some may paint him to be, but he's still not as good as in his prime except occasionally on a great day. The Fedray rivalry has gone a bit deceptive: Federer won the last five matches since the new racket, but one of them was 2014 AO against Postsurgeryray, and the other four are: Cinci, WTF, Wimby and Cincy again, some of Federer's favourite venues, plus Federer managed to channel his best performance at Wimby. Federer-Berdych, well, Berdych declined as well now, and Federer developed tactically, and Berdych no longer has supreme power to counter it.
 
Sure, Fed is not as awful as some may paint him to be, but he's still not as good as in his prime except occasionally on a great day. The Fedray rivalry has gone a bit deceptive: Federer won the last five matches since the new racket, but one of them was 2014 AO against Postsurgeryray, and the other four are: Cinci, WTF, Wimby and Cincy again, some of Federer's favourite venues, plus Federer managed to channel his best performance at Wimby. Federer-Berdych, well, Berdych declined as well now, and Federer developed tactically, and Berdych no longer has supreme power to counter it.

I mostly agree but I think Murray is playing really well in the last year, so it is hard to just look back at Federer dominating him so far, especialy when he used to give younger Federer so much trouble.

Berdych has definitely declined and it is a sign of the weakness of the current mens field his ranking has not.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Those Novak returns were wonderful in both Wimbleons Final 2014/15
I watched highlights of last year's final last night, Novak was so good in that match. :) Gonna watch highlights of the 2014 final later on. I know it sounds silly but I still get nervous watching them after that 4th set choke :oops: even though I know he went on to win it haha.
 

Noelan

Legend
I watched highlights of last year's final last night, Novak was so good in that match. :) Gonna watch highlights of the 2014 final later on. I know it sounds silly but I still get nervous watching them after that 4th set choke :oops: even though I know he went on to win it haha.
The most underrated match of the last decade just because fedfans don't like the final score and find excuse in federers age. Great tennis from both players.
Look at the stats:cool: High quality match , on pair with Wimbledon 08.
Forgot to add, it wasn't choke, federer brave playing gave him that 4 set:)
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
The most underrated match of the last decade just because fedfans don't like the final score and find excuse in federers age. Great tennis from both players.
Look at the stats:cool: High quality match , on pair with Wimbledon 08.
Forgot to add, it wasn't choke, federer brave playing gave him that 4 set:)
You know the recent stats are "not reliable at all", but only those where Fed was good but still lost. ;)
 
Your first sentence is exactly why I said Djokovic should be given credit as his ROS has a lot to do with this. And I suspect most Fed fans would disagree with you that his serve isn't the main weapon that allows him to be so competitive when he plays Novak these days, especially on quicker surfaces.
My first sentence was my agreeing with you on why Roger often doesn't serve well against Djokovic. Also, I'm not sure what Fed fans have to do with our conversation. It's a factual thing that Roger's serve is below par when he's playing Novak at Slams, stats can prove this. On quicker surfaces like Cincinnati and Dubai (not GS) his serve is solid which surely helps him big time but his wins also have to do with Roger's attacking style being more effective on fast courts so it's not just about serve. Federer depends on his serve greatly nowadays, no doubt about that. But it's not like you get 23 BP because you're serving well, right?
 
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Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
The most underrated match of the last decade just because fedfans don't like the final score and find excuse in federers age. Great tennis from both players.
Look at the stats:cool: High quality match , on pair with Wimbledon 08.
Forgot to add, it wasn't choke, federer brave playing gave him that 4 set:)
Well said Noelan although I have to disagree with you about the choking part babe. ;) Fed played some great tennis towards the end of the 4th set but Novak definitely got tight, perhaps understandable given the defeats he suffered in major finals over the previous twelve months.
 

Noelan

Legend
Well said Noelan although I have to disagree with you about the choking part babe. ;) Fed played some great tennis towards the end of the 4th set but Novak definitely got tight, perhaps understandable given the defeats he suffered in major finals over the previous twelve months.
Honestly I just don't know how Novak lost that first set, I tought that he was a better player througt it.
As for 4set, well, you know with him that he use to have his tenative moments , but Federer played great game to win that set down to 2 5.
Watch and enjoy W 2014 F once again:)
 

BlackSilver

Semi-Pro
Quite simple.

Berdych declined a little in the last times and Federer is playing smarter against him, exposing the fact that he moves like a stone, so he chip and charge the net whenever he can to take advantage of Berdych's clumsiness.

That's why he mauled him at the net in AO.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Just curious what you base that on. He barely plays Nadal anymore (and won their only match in the last 2 years) and he has still never lost a match to David Ferrer. I agree on the first part of your statement in absolute.
I think Nadal pushed him more than he should have in their Basel match given their respective form, and also his Cincy match against Ferrer was much closer than Fed's usual matches with Ferrer (where Fed rarely drops a set).
Small sample size though I guess.
 
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