What happened with Fed v. Berdych?

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
This should show that Berdych's win at Wimby 2010 wasn't a fluke, he just had Fed's number at that point and could challenge him anywhere.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
This should show that Berdych's win at Wimby 2010 wasn't a fluke, he just had Fed's number at that point and could challenge him anywhere.
How convenient of you to forget that surface makes a difference. Their grass results before and after show that it was a 'fluke' after all. Federer and Djokovic were both in poor form.
2012 USO QF wasn't a fluke, since on hardcourt Berdych could really consistently bother Federer during those years.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
True - Federer and Djokovic were both well off-form at that Wimbledon and Berdych was playing some good tennis - and he still got dismantled in the final by Rafa
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
True - Federer and Djokovic were both well off-form at that Wimbledon and Berdych was playing some good tennis - and he still got dismantled in the final by Rafa
Nadal peaked during those months in 2010, just like he did in 2008 and later 2013. Fedovic's poor form throughout the mid-season allowed him to pace himself, which enabled him to win three majors, rather than win two and then burn out / injure himself from the strain of playing peak tennis.
 

vanioMan

Legend
How convenient of you to forget that surface makes a difference. Their grass results before and after show that it was a 'fluke' after all. Federer and Djokovic were both in poor form.
2012 USO QF wasn't a fluke, since on hardcourt Berdych could really consistently bother Federer during those years.

No win is a fluke. It's not Berdych's fault that Federer was bad.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
No win is a fluke. It's not Berdych's fault that Federer was bad.
'Fault' and 'fluke' have no correlation whatsoever. A flukey win is a win over an opponent whose performance was unusually abysmal. It's still a legitimate win. The point of classifying it as a fluke is to point that it has no relevance to the question of who is generally the better player at the tournament, since some people like to derive such conclusions from H2H, while in actuality silly numbers like Federer's 0-1 against Berdych at Wimbledon or Nadal in Cincinnati don't mean anything like that.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
'Fault' and 'fluke' have no correlation whatsoever. A flukey win is a win over an opponent whose performance was unusually abysmal. It's still a legitimate win. The point of classifying it as a fluke is to point that it has no relevance to the question of who is generally the better player at the tournament, since some people like to derive such conclusions from H2H, while in actuality silly numbers like Federer's 0-1 against Berdych at Wimbledon or Nadal in Cincinnati don't mean anything like that.

Federer isn't 0-1 against Berdych at Wimbledon, he's 1-1. Thrashed him in 2006.
And Nadal played his best ever Cincy tournament and deserved the win - doesn't matter if it was in 2013 or not.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
And Nadal played his best ever Cincy tournament and deserved the win - doesn't matter if it was in 2013 or not.
It's not about the concept of 'deserving'. If you win something, you must have deserved it.
It's about this being a ground for ****s to say things like 'peak Nadal beats peak Federer in Cincinnati, see 2013' (there is a bit of exaggeration here, but the general spirit is reflected accurately, I say). In order to dismiss such silly blather before it happens, the concept of 'fluke' is useful.
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
From 2009 - early 2014, barring one match, Berdych consistently gave Federer trouble. Almost of their matches went the distance with Fed winning, or ended with Berdych winning. The only match that Fed won easily was Paris in 2011.

2014 Dubai F: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 3-6 6-4 6-3
2013 Dubai SF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 3-6 7-6(8) 6-4
2012 US Open QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 7-6(1) 6-4 3-6 6-3
2012 Madrid Masters F: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 3-6 7-5 7-5
2011 Paris Masters SF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-3
2011 Cincinnati Masters QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-2 7-6(3)
2010 Canadian Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-3 5-7 7-6(5)
2010 Wimbledon QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-4 3-6 6-1 6-4
2010 Miami Masters R16: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-4 6-7(3) 7-6(6)
2009 Australian Open R16: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 4-6 6-7(4) 6-4 6-4 6-2

Berdych won 5 of these matches. Fed won 4.

Then, from post Dubai 2014 on, Fed hasn't lost a single set against Berdych. In fact, only one match had a tiebreak, and that was this year's AO.

2016 Australian Open QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 7-6(4) 6-2 6-4
2015 ATP World Tour Finals RR: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-2
2015 Rome Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-3 6-3
2015 Indian Wells Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-0

What changed?
Berdych is old and past his prime. His peak years were 2010-2013, that's when Federer started to decline. Yes Federer is also past his prime, but Berdych is not an ATG and he needs to be at peak level to beat someone like Federer.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
This should show that Berdych's win at Wimby 2010 wasn't a fluke, he just had Fed's number at that point and could challenge him anywhere.

Federer nearly lost to Falla in the first round. He was poor that whole tournament. In contrast to 2011 where he was great but Tsonga played like a God.

Berdych has always been dangerous - he won his only masters in 2005 afterall and hovered around the top 10 in 06-07, he finally found consistency in 2010. When Federer lost something from his game and movement he became more vulnerable to big hitters - like Nadal has though this is to an even greater degree. Federer has since became far more aggressive which has stopped Berdych from being able to get on the front foot in rallies and expose Roger's movement. Plus I don't think Berdych is playing as well as he was back then.
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
From 2009 - early 2014, barring one match, Berdych consistently gave Federer trouble. Almost of their matches went the distance with Fed winning, or ended with Berdych winning. The only match that Fed won easily was Paris in 2011.

2014 Dubai F: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 3-6 6-4 6-3
2013 Dubai SF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 3-6 7-6(8) 6-4
2012 US Open QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 7-6(1) 6-4 3-6 6-3
2012 Madrid Masters F: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 3-6 7-5 7-5
2011 Paris Masters SF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-3
2011 Cincinnati Masters QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-2 7-6(3)
2010 Canadian Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-3 5-7 7-6(5)
2010 Wimbledon QF: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-4 3-6 6-1 6-4
2010 Miami Masters R16: Tomas Berdych d. Roger Federer, 6-4 6-7(3) 7-6(6)
2009 Australian Open R16: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 4-6 6-7(4) 6-4 6-4 6-2

Berdych won 5 of these matches. Fed won 4.

Then, from post Dubai 2014 on, Fed hasn't lost a single set against Berdych. In fact, only one match had a tiebreak, and that was this year's AO.

2016 Australian Open QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 7-6(4) 6-2 6-4
2015 ATP World Tour Finals RR: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-2
2015 Rome Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-3 6-3
2015 Indian Wells Masters QF: Roger Federer d. Tomas Berdych, 6-4 6-0

What changed?
Federer became better. Much better.
 
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