What Happens if Goffin Withdraws from 2017 World Tour Finals?

Meles

Bionic Poster
belgium-davis-cup.jpg

What on earth is Goffin doing continuing at WTF with a banged up knee? He has Davis Cup later this month.:eek: Three hard sets with Nadal and then a hard 6-0, 6-2 loss to Dimitrov. If he wins on Friday he'll face Fed in the semi-finals. This doesn't make a lot of sense.


Querrey steps in for Goffin as the 2nd alternate.

Scenario:
Querrey replaces Goffin and beats Thiem and is 1-0
Thiem finishes 1-2
Busta beats Dimitrov and finishes 1-1

Who gets the 2nd spot from Group B in this scenario?
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Yes, in this scenario, it's Thiem, as he was qualified in the first eight and played all three matches. At the Masters, 2-1 trumps 2-0 (if alternate playing two matches only), and 1-2 trumps 1-0.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Yes, the next factor after matches won is matches played.

But I have another question: Could Federer just sit out today’s match against Cilic and let Querrey play for him?

Because only one player could overtake him at 2-1 (the winner of Zverev vs Sock). He would have 2-0 and would easily be in front of the loser of Zverev/Sock, Cilic and Querrey.

If an alternate who starts in the 2nd match can reach the SF this way, why not also someone who skips the last?

Of course I know Federer won’t do it, but just hypothetical...
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, the next factor after matches won is matches played.

But I have another question: Could Federer just sit out today’s match against Cilic and let Querrey play for him?

Because only one player could overtake him at 2-1 (the winner of Zverev vs Sock). He would have 2-0 and would easily be in front of the loser of Zverev/Sock, Cilic and Querrey.

If an alternate who starts in the 2nd match can reach the SF this way, why not also someone who skips the last?

Of course I know Federer won’t do it, but just hypothetical...
You can't have an alternate replace you without withdrawing from the tournament entirely
 

ChrisRF

Legend
You can't have an alternate replace you without withdrawing from the tournament entirely
Thank you! I wouldn’t have wanted it anyway, because 200 points are on the line, and that’s not too shabby for one so-called “worthless” match. If he wins the tournament undefeated, he is only 140 points behind Nadal, which means he just needs to play something like Brisbane instead of the really useless Hopman Cup, and he could be #1 before the Australian Open.
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
Yes, in this scenario, it's Thiem, as he was qualified in the first eight and played all three matches. At the Masters, 2-1 trumps 2-0 (if alternate playing two matches only), and 1-2 trumps 1-0.
Which is actually ********, isn't it?

If somebody gets three opportunities to win matches and only wins one, that's worse than just playing one and winning it.

Maybe just my opinion.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Which is actually ********, isn't it?

If somebody gets three opportunities to win matches and only wins one, that's worse than just playing one and winning it.

Maybe just my opinion.
I think it’s because of the opportunity you could avoid the best potential opponents by playing only one match. Imagine if an alternate player gets in in the exactly right situation where he only has to beat someone like Goffin in one match and avoids healthy Big 4 players against whom the others from his group have to compete. So he inflates his resume, and in a tournament where set and games percentages count in the end, you cannot do that.
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
I think it’s because of the opportunity you could avoid the best potential opponents by playing only one match. Imagine if an alternate player gets in in the exactly right situation where he only has to beat someone like Goffin in one match and avoids healthy Big 4 players against whom the others from his group have to compete. So he inflates his resume, and in a tournament where set and games percentages count in the end, you cannot do that.
Hmm, that makes sense, but Rafa knew he wasn't fit, but he played anyway, so it's not Busta's fault, he couldn't play all three matches.

But I see your point, in the end he wasn't good enough to qualify directly.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Which is actually ********, isn't it?

If somebody gets three opportunities to win matches and only wins one, that's worse than just playing one and winning it.

Maybe just my opinion.
It sure feels like it, but for the reasoning above. 1-2 players do make it to WTF semi's every time one player goes 3-0 and the rest 1-2.

In any event Thiem and Goffin have trained together and even did so at this event despite being in the same group
David+Goffin+Dominic+Thiem+Previews+Nitto+IjdvFSBsMz5l.jpg

So Goffin has all the reasons in the world to withdraw from this match:
1. Plenty of court time with the Nadal match
2. Anchoring Belgium in Davis Cup final that starts in 7 days where the entire French team will be trying to take Goffin down including Pouille against whom Goffin is 0-3:confused:
3. With Goffin's taped knee hampering him at the end of the Nadal match, the 2nd RR thrashing either indicates Dimitrov is in the form of his life or Goffin's knee was worsened by this first match. Simply being tired after the Nadal match is another possibility, but with a full day off this should not have been an issue.
4. Goffin well knows that the die is cast; his SF opponent will be Federer who absolutely thrashed him recently in Basel. The toughest opponent imaginable awaits Goffin as a reward for winning on Friday.
5. Goffin has already secured 200 ranking points at this event. He's in little danger of losing top 8 seeding at Auz and has almost no chance to make top 4.
6. The kicker is Thiem is a friend of sorts. Goffin withdrawing puts Thiem in the semifinal match with Federer.

Why would Goffin not withdraw if it puts his friend Thiem into the semifinals given all of the above? Perhaps he intends to show for the match and play for a set and then withdraw giving way for Thiem. The tournament could be pressuring him to play, but it just makes little sense with Federer looming and a withdraw later just screws up the tournament completely with Querrey as an alternate not an option under the rules.

Looks like some serious ******** the most likely outcome.:D
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
It sure feels like it, but for the reasoning above. 1-2 players do make it to WTF semi's every time one player goes 3-0 and the rest 1-2.

In any event Thiem and Goffin have trained together and even did so at this event despite being in the same group
David+Goffin+Dominic+Thiem+Previews+Nitto+IjdvFSBsMz5l.jpg

So Goffin has all the reasons in the world to withdraw from this match:
1. Plenty of court time with the Nadal match
2. Anchoring Belgium in Davis Cup final that starts in 7 days where the entire French team will be trying to take Goffin down including Pouille against whom Goffin is 0-3:confused:
3. With Goffin's taped knee hampering him at the end of the Nadal match, the 2nd RR thrashing either indicates Dimitrov is in the form of his life or Goffin's knee was worsened by this first match. Simply being tired after the Nadal match is another possibility, but with a full day off this should not have been an issue.
4. Goffin well knows that the die is cast; his SF opponent will be Federer who absolutely thrashed him recently in Basel. The toughest opponent imaginable awaits Goffin as a reward for winning on Friday.
5. Goffin has already secured 200 ranking points at this event. He's in little danger of losing top 8 seeding at Auz and has almost no chance to make top 4.
6. The kicker is Thiem is a friend of sorts. Goffin withdrawing puts Thiem in the semifinal match with Federer.

Why would Goffin not withdraw if it puts his friend Thiem into the semifinals given all of the above? Perhaps he intends to show for the match and play for a set and then withdraw giving way for Thiem. The tournament could be pressuring him to play, but it just makes little sense with Federer looming and a withdraw later just screws up the tournament completely with Querrey as an alternate not an option under the rules.

Looks like some serious ******** the most likely outcome.:D

How about Goffin beats Thiem saving MP and then retires from tournament giving Fed a bye to finals ?
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
How about Goffin beats Thiem saving MP and then retires from tournament giving Fed a bye to finals ?
It could easily happen, but would he do it for just 200 points and the money? Such a scenario surely would doom Goffin and the Belgian Davis Cup team. No, he'd really be obligated to play. Either way Fed wins if Goffin wins almost assuredly.

You seem fearful of Goffin withdrawing.:rolleyes:
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
It could easily happen, but would he do it for just 200 points and the money? Such a scenario surely would doom Goffin and the Belgian Davis Cup team. No, he'd really be obligated to play. Either way Fed wins if Goffin wins almost assuredly.

You seem fearful of Goffin withdrawing.:rolleyes:

No, I would like to see Thiem pasted sooner than later.
 
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