What if Nadal would have won the AO 2005 4R against Hewitt?

The_Mental_Giant

Hall of Fame
He lost in 5 sets after having the chance to close the match in the tiebreak of the 4th set, then he would have faced Nalbandian (who lost in 5 sets to Hewitt) and then Roddick (who lost in 4 sets to Hewitt) to finally face marat Safin, could have done that in case he would have escaped that 2005 4R? and if so do you think it would have helped him in his confidence in HC slams, to peak earlier in them?
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Don't be crazy. He would have lost in the next round, just like Federer lost in Wimbledon 2001 after beating Sampras. No way Nadal was winning AO 2005.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
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RS

Bionic Poster
Or just meeting at AO/Wimbledon.

But they would've met in the semi in 2005. In 2003 Wimbledon they were only one match away by the way
Nadal would have been well beaten in Wimb 2003. 2005 would have been good considering he pushed Hewitt harder than Roddick did. Nadal was more inconsistent on HC then.
Roddick gave Nadal good matches off clay generally.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I get to watch Roddick lose another Slam final.

yay

Roddick had a good H2H with Safin, probably loses but the match up isn't one he couldn't overcome if he serves lights out. He lost their 2004 match but he was on a nice streak of three wins at this point including a high quality one at the YEC. Have to back Safin but Roddick usually played him close.

Nadal would have been well beaten in Wimb 2003. 2005 would have been good considering he pushed Hewitt harder than Roddick did. Nadal was more inconsistent on HC then.
Roddick gave Nadal good matches off clay generally.

Hewitt played a lot better against Roddick, that was his best match of the tournament - I've charted 5/7 of the matches from that run now so you can trust me lol. Roddick KO's Nadal in 4 sets if they meet IMO, he was serving super big and Nadal ain't reading his serve like Hewitt did. TBH I don't see Nadal getting through Nalbandian - he'd already gone 5 sets with Youzhny in the 3rd round, going back to back five set matches and then taking on Nalbandian would be too much to ask. I legit think there's only like 2 AO runs of Nadal that get through that draw - 09 and 12, even then that's just to make the final where it's a toss up.
 
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NatF

Bionic Poster
He lost in 5 sets after having the chance to close the match in the tiebreak of the 4th set, then he would have faced Nalbandian (who lost in 5 sets to Hewitt) and then Roddick (who lost in 4 sets to Hewitt) to finally face marat Safin, could have done that in case he would have escaped that 2005 4R? and if so do you think it would have helped him in his confidence in HC slams, to peak earlier in them?

Nadal had some really tough draws in HC slams in 05-07, Hewitt, Blake, Gonzo - all very tough opponents. Youzhny was definitely winnable and against Ferrer he was a bit injured. I think the difference is in 2008 the early rounds opened up for him a bit more and then by 2009 he was obviously peaking.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Safin beat peak Fed at the 2005 AO. He would have destroyed Nadal. 2005 HC Nadal was a pale shadow of what he would become in 2009-2010.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
He lost in 5 sets after having the chance to close the match in the tiebreak of the 4th set, then he would have faced Nalbandian (who lost in 5 sets to Hewitt) and then Roddick (who lost in 4 sets to Hewitt) to finally face marat Safin, could have done that in case he would have escaped that 2005 4R? and if so do you think it would have helped him in his confidence in HC slams, to peak earlier in them?
Nalby beats him. 18 year old Nadal isn't beating peak Nalbandian on HC.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Roddick had a good H2H with Safin, probably loses but the match up isn't one he couldn't overcome if he serves lights out. He lost their 2004 match but he was on a nice streak of three wins at this point including a high quality one at the YEC. Have to back Safin but Roddick usually played him close.



Hewitt played a lot better against Roddick, that was his best match of the tournament - I've charted 5/7 of the matches from that run now so you can trust me lol. Roddick KO's Nadal in 4 sets if they meet IMO, he was serving super big and Nadal ain't reading his serve like Hewitt did. TBH I don't Nadal getting through Nalbandian - he'd already gone 5 sets with Youzhny in the 3rd round, go back to back five set matches and then taking on Nalbandian would be too much to ask. I legit think there's only like 2 AO runs of Nadal that get through that draw - 09 and 12, even then that's just to make the final where it's a toss up.
Getting past Hewitt gives Nadal more confidence imo beating that level opponent . A bit like it did Roddick himself in Wimbledon 2009 when he carved Berdych up in the 4th round and onwards and in that match he raised his level. Yeah Roddick could still be the favourite given Nadal was more inconsistent at HC majors then, Haven’t seen Roddick/Hewitt AO 2005 so maybe I can’t comment on it.
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Nalby beats him. 18 year old Nadal isn't beating peak Nalbandian on HC.
I think this is it, Nalby used to be a nightmare matchup for Nadal.

Of course, he wouldn't be 100% to lose, but I'm pretty sure he would be disadvantaged going into that match. Even considering Nalby's choking artistry.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Getting past Hewitt gives Nadal more confidence imo beating that level opponent . A bit like it did Roddick himself in Wimbledon 2009 when he carved Berdych up in the 4th round and onwards and in that match he raised his level. Yeah Roddick could still be the favourite given Nadal was more inconsistent at HC majors then, Haven’t seen Roddick/Hewitt AO 2005 so maybe I can’t comment on it.

Worth a watch, very high quality - especially the second set. Even just check out the high lights maybe.
 
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Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Trolling at its best....
OP asked, I answered.

In 2005 slam finalists were:

Federer
A player who doesn't take tennis seriously (Safin)
A short player (Hewitt)
One of the slam finalists with the worst career ever (Puerta)
A player who just turned 19yo (Nadal)
A player with a weak backhand (Roddick)
A player who retired right after (Agassi)

I can see Nadal taking the 2005 AO if he gets past Hewitt. It's not easy but it's possible.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
OP asked, I answered.

In 2005 slam finalists were:

Federer
A player who doesn't take tennis seriously (Safin)
A short player (Hewitt)
One of the slam finalists with the worst career ever (Puerta)
A player who just turned 19yo (Nadal)
A player with a weak backhand (Roddick)
A player who retired right after (Agassi)

I can see Nadal taking the 2005 AO if he gets past Hewitt. It's not easy but it's possible.
Puerta was on PEDs in RG 2005 which helped him play better than normal. He nearly took Nadal to a 5th set in the final.
Roddick did not have a great backhand but you are basically ignoring his forehand and serve.
Nadal is not your normal 19 year old player look at how good he was in 2005.
Agassi had world class results in 2004 and 2005 at HC slams despite being inconsistent that year.
Why do you discredit so many top players just to boost up Djokovic?
I can agree with the final part.
 
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RS

Bionic Poster
Worth a watch, very high quality - especially the second set. Even just check out the high lights maybe.
Need to check out more full matches from back then actually. 2005 was a good year for matches.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
IMO 2005 is the best year for matches, lots of five set finals etc...but yeah worth checking out. One of my favourite Hewitt performances.
I liked USO 2005 Federer-Hewitt even though Hewitt lost it he played quite well. Hewitt nearly took it 5.
2009/2011-2012 have to right at the top for matches as well. 2009 had great matches at every slam.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I liked USO 2005 Federer-Hewitt even though Hewitt lost it he played quite well. Hewitt nearly took it 5.
2009/2011-2012 have to right at the top for matches as well. 2009 had great matches at every slam.

Yeah, Hewitt came to the net like 40 times in the middle two sets. Felt like he was finding a way to play Federer before injuries set in - another of my favourite matches that.

I'd probably put 2009 second, 2005 edges it for the four (?) five set masters finals - I think there were some good contests in Davis Cup that year too.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Yeah, Hewitt came to the net like 40 times in the middle two sets. Felt like he was finding a way to play Federer before injuries set in - another of my favourite matches that.

I'd probably put 2009 second, 2005 edges it for the four (?) five set masters finals - I think there were some good contests in Davis Cup that year too.
BO5 helped in 2005 with finals it allowed for great finals and comebacks the winner came back from 2 sets down twice. 2009 was probably weaker the masters but i think the slams/YEC was better in 2009. I think AO/RG a little better in 2009 with Wimbeldon being much better. USO a little better in 2005 and WTF a lot better in 2009.
I have to put 2011-2012 too that was the peak of the big 4.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
BO5 helped in 2005 with finals it allowed for great final comeback the winner came back from 2 sets down twice. 2009 was probably weaker the masters but i think the slams/YEC was better in 2009.
I have to put 2011-2012 too that was the peak of the big 4.

I don't remember as many great matches in 2011/2012 - even though the standard of play was obviously very high.

The YEC was better in 2009, not sure about the slams. It's close IMO.
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
he would have lost in the first round and wouldn't have won any slam.

we would live in a happy world with colourful butterflies, fluffy baby seals and no topspin plague.




but, sadly, he morally won it :cry:
 
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RS

Bionic Poster
I don't remember as many great matches in 2011/2012 - even though the stand of play was obviously very high.

The YEC was better in 2009, not sure about the slams. It's close IMO.
I think that AO/RG was a tad better in 2009 with a better final in 2005 and Wimbeldon was much better in 2009. USO better in 2005 with a better final in 2009. So maybe it is quite close.
Maybe not just great matches but good quality encounters in 2011/2012 you had among the big 3/4 in those years
Djokovic Federer-AO 2011 SF,RG 2011 SF,USO 2011 SF,IW 2011 SF,WTF 2012 final
Djokovic-Murray-Rome 2011 SF,AO 12 SF
Nadal-Federer- Madrid 2011 SF,RG 2011 F,AO12 SF
Nadal-Murray RG 2011 SF
Djokovic-Nadal Miami 2011,AO 2012 F. Then the clay masters matches in 2011 and USO 2011 F being pretty good.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I think that AO/RG was a tad better in 2009 with a better final in 2005 and Wimbeldon was much better in 2009. USO better in 2005 with a better final in 2009. So maybe it is quite close.
Maybe not just great matches but good quality encounters in 2011/2012 you had among the big 3/4 in those years
Djokovic Federer-AO 2011 SF,RG 2011 SF,USO 2011 SF,IW 2011 SF,WTF 2012 final
Djokovic-Murray-Rome 2011 SF,AO 12 SF
Nadal-Federer- Madrid 2011 SF,RG 2011 F,AO12 SF
Nadal-Murray RG 2011 SF
Djokovic-Nadal Miami 2011,AO 2012 F. Then the clay masters matches in 2011 and USO 2011 F being pretty good.

I'd say the AO was a tad better in 2005 with a better final in 2009 tbh. Think there were more great matches in 2005 - though 2009 was an epic event. Agree on the FO, Wimbledon and USO - though I think the USO 2009 final is a bit overrated quality wise.

Yeah definitely a lot of good matches in 2011/2012, just feel like 2005 and 2009 had more...
 

RS

Bionic Poster
I'd say the AO was a tad better in 2005 with a better final in 2009 tbh. Think there were more great matches in 2005 - though 2009 was an epic event. Agree on the FO, Wimbledon and USO - though I think the USO 2009 final is a bit overrated quality wise.

Yeah definitely a lot of good matches in 2011/2012, just feel like 2005 and 2009 had more...
Federer messed up the lead and lots of chances in USO 2009 final i do not hear it mentioned a lot along with great matches though. But i put it ahead because Agassi gassed in the last set and a bit vs Federer.
I put AO 2009 just of AO 2005 ahead due to the B2B SF+F with Federer and Verdasco Nadal went though but both were great events anyway.
 
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NatF

Bionic Poster
Federer messed up the lead and lots of chances in USO 2009 final i do not hear it mentioned a lot along with great matches. But i put it ahead because Agassi gassed in the end.
I put AO 2009 just ahead due to the B2B SF+F Nadal went though but both were great events anyway.

Yeah, one of the SF's in 2009 was a fairly straight forward straight sets match though. Both had one ATG SF, in 2009 there was a classic final (or near classic) while in 2005 there was a great second SF and F. On balance maybe the edge to 2009 for the last two rounds but I think the rest of the 2005 event makes up for that and pushes it ahead - Hewitt's run was damn epic. Beat more quality players than most slam runs...

Federer's main problem was the serve, really in both the slam finals he lost in 2009, funnily enough he served like a God in the other two. And yeah Agassi was gassed in the end, but for three sets the 2005 was top quality IMO.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I think that AO/RG was a tad better in 2009 with a better final in 2005 and Wimbeldon was much better in 2009. USO better in 2005 with a better final in 2009. So maybe it is quite close.
Maybe not just great matches but good quality encounters in 2011/2012 you had among the big 3/4 in those years
Djokovic Federer-AO 2011 SF,RG 2011 SF,USO 2011 SF,IW 2011 SF,WTF 2012 final
Djokovic-Murray-Rome 2011 SF,AO 12 SF
Nadal-Federer- Madrid 2011 SF,RG 2011 F,AO12 SF
Nadal-Murray RG 2011 SF
Djokovic-Nadal Miami 2011,AO 2012 F. Then the clay masters matches in 2011 and USO 2011 F being pretty good.
Maybe I am in the minority here, but to me USO 2011 F is overrated.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Maybe I am in the minority here, but to me USO 2011 F is overrated.
I called it a good match not great. Taking into account the last set being one sided. The rallies in the first 3 sets were crazy.
Djokovic was at his best but Nadal not so much just decent to good.
Serving was not good at all esp from Nadal.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yeah, one of the SF's in 2009 was a fairly straight forward straight sets match though. Both had one ATG SF, in 2009 there was a classic final (or near classic) while in 2005 there was a great second SF and F. On balance maybe the edge to 2009 for the last two rounds but I think the rest of the 2005 event makes up for that and pushes it ahead - Hewitt's run was damn epic. Beat more quality players than most slam runs...

Federer's main problem was the serve, really in both the slam finals he lost in 2009, funnily enough he served like a God in the other two. And yeah Agassi was gassed in the end, but for three sets the 2005 was top quality IMO.
2005 AO had amazing QF and SF. Hewitt-Nalbandian and Safin-Federer. Hewitt-Nalbandian not being a semi or a final underrates it.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Maybe I am in the minority here, but to me USO 2011 F is overrated.

Very overrated. Funny I was watching that beastly point Nadal won in the 3rd set - the one with that bh dtl winner. And the commies were saying how Nadal wasn't there for two sets but now he's arrived.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I called it a good match not great. Taking into account the last set being one sided. The rallies in the first 3 sets were crazy.
Djokovic was at his best but Nadal not so much just decent to good.
Nadal had little to no serve in that 2011 final. He was playing like a mad man just to avoid losing in straights.

And the worst part is that the usual customers will call that Nadal an incredible opponent better than anyone Federer faced.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
On topic, no, I don't think Nadal wins it. Nalbandian, Roddick and Safin back to back would've been brutal.

I don't think he gets past Nalbandian.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Nadal had little to no serve in that 2011 final. He was playing like a mad mam just to avoid losing in straights.

And the worst part is that the usual customers will call that Nadal an incredible opponent better than anyone Federer faced.
Nadal in his prime was better than most players Federer faced aside from him. Not in the 2011 USO final though.
Nadal played well of the ground though with the poor serving letting him down the rallies in the first 3 sets were quality.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Nadal in his prime was better than most players Federer faced aside from him. Not in the 2011 USO final though.
Nadal played well of the ground though with the poor serving letting him down the rallies in the first 3 sets were quality.
I consider the following opponents not better finalists than guys Federer faced:

Nadal Wimb 2011 F
Nadal USO 2011 F
Nadal AO 2019 F
Djokovic Wimb 2013 F

These 4 instances are clear examples of name over form.
 
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