Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
In Cincy Federer is the best ever, at Wimbledon I would go with Novak then Fed, corona messed up the last 2 years of the Big 3.
He didnt beat Fed until 2014 and has less titles, there is no way I put him ahead of Fed on grass
zakopinjo
Professional
Until? They played only once before 2014, in 2012.
Until it would make sense if they played 3-4 times in the period from 2006-2014 (played only one match).
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Ban, thats tough
. I see it came out a bit wrong, its not like i meant Federer owned him on grass until 2014. That said, its also wrong to compare them based on one match in 2012, then three matches from Federer was almost 33 to 38.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Djokovic has one title less because of corona cancellation of Wimbledon 2020. He won two previous titles and two after cancellation. Federer is the best grass player overall (Hale and Wimbledon titles combined), but Novak is soo dominant 4/4 (100% vs Fed and Rafa in Wimbledon finals) .
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I don't give h2h much thoughts and even if it has fed was in fifth twice in nole wins.Ban, thats tough
Fed is ahead but this until 2014 is what irked me.
Thats ok, it wasnt my intention, but often i read "Djokovic owned him their last three matches at W". Its relevant to point out when the three last matches was played.
Its relevant that the three finals vs Roger happened after he was nearly 33y
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Queens and Halle are big tourneys for grass. He has not won either. Grass plays differently on each court. Fed and Sampras and Borg proved their prowess on grass. Djoker could likely win one of those.
I just think it is the one small thing he is missing from his resume.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Grass and Wimbledon are not the same lol. Not sure why people can say Djoker even comes close to him or Sampras on grass. It is not even close.
Fed has beat Sampras at WC. He has more WC titles. Fed has 19 grass titles to Djokers 8. Fed has 80 more wins on grass. Won 3 different tourney titles. Grass is a surface, and it varies greatly. Djoker is great, almost as great as Fed, on WC, but that is where the GRASS Convo ends.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
If 2020 corona is relevant, than Djoker playing Fed when he was old is also relevant.
Unseeded Player
Hall of Fame
But still Fed was able to beat anyone else on the grass except Novak
Unseeded Player
Hall of Fame
Age diffence didn't allowed to see prime vs prime version but it is what it is.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
no. just big titles are big titles. nole usually did not even played MMs. even on grass
I really dont like to pol1ute threads like this with the usual Fed/Nole business, but I didnt start it.
What really really triggers me is people concluding that age isnt a disadvantage because Djokodal didnt have any problems with anyone from Nishikori/Raonic to Tsitsipas/Rublev. Like that is the same as Roger being chased by Djokovic, Nadal and Murray?
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
He decided not to play them. His choice.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Federer was crushing everybody at Wimbledon except Novak, my feeling is that Djokovic minimum unforced errors game was the key element for the 3 titles.
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
ATP Fans favourite. Does he have the overall record there yet?
zakopinjo
Professional
It will never be clear to me how Federer won that award in 2011, after the famous USO semi-final conference.
i think you started
"Novak is 3/3 in Wimbledon finals vs Federer and he has 11 titles combine in fast hard courts as in Shanghai masters and WTF."
I started because I responded to this? Ok...
Winning as many slams as possible, I think thats more or less the only goal he has now, apart from just loving to play maybe...
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Exactly.
zakopinjo
Professional
Hordes of fans at every tournament would disagree
ATG Lendl esque player with better longevity and weaker competition.
W is medium and he never beat a prime Federer there, falling in 4 sets in 2012.
WTF was medium slow between 09-16 at least and he got bodied by old man Federer in 2019 when they sped it up.
0 Shanghai titles going through Federer. He’s better than most of the tour there though.
I’d rate his 09 Basel title very highly as it was a proper fast HC and he defeated prime Federer in 3 sets. Otherwise he’s quite a way behind Federer Pete and other.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Federer is the best on the fastest surface but realistically his is second best vs Novak and Rafa at Wimbledon .
Hitman
Bionic Poster
At this point it is a sad joke. Take a look at the insane amount of fans he had around him throughout his visit to China, he was swamped by fans in Shanghai. Look at the crazy amount of fans that cheered him on in the gold medal match, and no, they weren't all Serbian, they were fans from all over the world that came to watch the Olympics, and he had a massive amount cheering him on. But yeah, lets keep saying no one likes him, because we cannot go after his records now.
Ha good one. 2012 Wimbledon semi is how a prime to prime Fed/Djokovic match would go there more often than not. Anything post racket change doesn’t tell us anything other than 32-37 year old Federer was ultra competitive with prime Djokovic.
Fedal is an interesting one. Federer leads 2-1 with Nadal taking the 3rd match in an epic. Federer definitely has the edge. Neither of the other two ever approached 2003 Federer level there.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Another Wim and USO, then more titles so he can hold that record as well
Essential holding all of the most important records in tennis history
Essential holding all of the most important records in tennis history
Lauren_Girl'
Hall of Fame
All meaningless records. The latest icing on the cake would be the 25th Slam. Preferably in RG for the quadruple career Slam or in Wimbledon to tie the record in the most prestigious tournament. But he'll take a 11Th AO as well if he can.
As a Nole fan it's just bonus now though. 22 would have been more than enough given how far ahead of Fedal he is in the other achievements. 23 and 24 and Olympics were already unnecessary in the debate.... What more can a fan ask him? He could have retired after AO 2023 as the goat if he wanted.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Just hit the 100 titles milestone. 1 more small title will do!
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
And quite frankly Connors' record is not even an all-time one, but open era specific! And only ATP, not WCT or other concurrent tours...here is an all-time list!
Honestly looking at this, should we really take it that seriously??...I mean Drobny, Ritchie, Wilding, Emerson...really??!...Almost half of these people on the list are highly irrelevant to tennis history anymore and are relics of the ancient past now...
zakopinjo
Professional
Well, in general, Connors shouldn't be taken seriously either. 39 big titles and 70 small..And quite frankly Connors' record is not even an all-time one, but open era specific! And only ATP, not WCT or other concurrent tours...here is an all-time list!
Honestly looking at this, should we really take it that seriously??...I mean Drobny, Ritchie, Wilding, Emerson...really??!...Almost half of these people on the list are highly irrelevant to tennis history anymore and are relics of the ancient past now...
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
Well, that's what i was saying...real GOAT-tier tennis greats such as Serena Williams, Pete Sampras or Bjorn Borg all finished within 60-70 overall title range and Nadal also failed to hit 100, nowhere even close to Connors' 109...overall titles stat for respective both male and female tour is way overrated...
sportsfan1
Legend
Going by that, Alcaraz is sooo dominant at wimby with his no loss 2-0 record over Novak.
zakopinjo
Professional
In the rivalry between Novak and Federer, age has no influence
In the rivalry between Novak and Alcaraz, they really have an influence (Novak could be his father)
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Wonder if ‘Roy’ can catch Roy?And quite frankly Connors' record is not even an all-time one, but open era specific! And only ATP, not WCT or other concurrent tours...here is an all-time list!
Honestly looking at this, should we really take it that seriously??...I mean Drobny, Ritchie, Wilding, Emerson...really??!...Almost half of these people on the list are highly irrelevant to tennis history anymore and are relics of the ancient past now...
Haha certainly stronger than anything from 2019-2023. And 2003 Federer on grass was probably the highest level of all time at Wimbledon.2003 was a strong era
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-11-17/roddick-tops-final-2003-atp-rankings/1510934
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
In terms of what he's losing sleep over winning? Nothing.
But nice to haves are still on the table - 100 titles total, 25 slams (USO or Wimbledon best to tie record, though RG would give 4xCGS), he could go for most total wins at AO, WIM, USO, and ATP Finals (https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/big-3-match-wins-per-major.633927/). Really not much else unless he's looking for style points.
But nice to haves are still on the table - 100 titles total, 25 slams (USO or Wimbledon best to tie record, though RG would give 4xCGS), he could go for most total wins at AO, WIM, USO, and ATP Finals (https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/big-3-match-wins-per-major.633927/). Really not much else unless he's looking for style points.
Djokovic doesn't care about beating the future records, he cares about beating Federer and Nadal's records. Last year he prioritised Olympic gold- he now has that over Federer, so his sights turn to Nadal: He now guns for four more Australian Opens for two reasons:
1 to beat Nadal's french open record of most wins at a single slam
2 to avenge being banned from the tournament during COVID and prove that he can have greater longevity than Nadal and Fed, therefore backing up his approach to his health as superior
Carlos knows this, and has been taking it easy, he wants to win the Australian this year to knock Djoker into touch, and to add the only slam trophy he has not yet won to his trophy cabinet.
Both will bring their full form to the Australian, and I predict an epic final between them if they are on opposing sides of the draw, superior to previous finals battles:
French Carlos was too nervous, didn't sleep right and cramped
Wimbledon 1 was in wind which weakens Djokovic
Wimbledon 2 djoker was saving energy for the Olympics, trying to get an easy win if it was offered, which it wasn't.
Olympics alcaraz had expended too much energy in the village to bring his top level
Djokovic is being counted out of contention unduly: it is true that he cannot contest every tournament any more, but that was the same for Federer and Nadal at the end of their careers. If he decides to make a run he can be dangerous. Even if Federer and Nadal are both retired, he is still playing against them. If he can win the coming Australian Open he will make the tournament his top priority. A guy that could nearly win a calendar grand slam when already over 30, can still have the stamina to go to war for one slam a year.
It's up to Carlos to stop him!
1 to beat Nadal's french open record of most wins at a single slam
2 to avenge being banned from the tournament during COVID and prove that he can have greater longevity than Nadal and Fed, therefore backing up his approach to his health as superior
Carlos knows this, and has been taking it easy, he wants to win the Australian this year to knock Djoker into touch, and to add the only slam trophy he has not yet won to his trophy cabinet.
Both will bring their full form to the Australian, and I predict an epic final between them if they are on opposing sides of the draw, superior to previous finals battles:
French Carlos was too nervous, didn't sleep right and cramped
Wimbledon 1 was in wind which weakens Djokovic
Wimbledon 2 djoker was saving energy for the Olympics, trying to get an easy win if it was offered, which it wasn't.
Olympics alcaraz had expended too much energy in the village to bring his top level
Djokovic is being counted out of contention unduly: it is true that he cannot contest every tournament any more, but that was the same for Federer and Nadal at the end of their careers. If he decides to make a run he can be dangerous. Even if Federer and Nadal are both retired, he is still playing against them. If he can win the coming Australian Open he will make the tournament his top priority. A guy that could nearly win a calendar grand slam when already over 30, can still have the stamina to go to war for one slam a year.
It's up to Carlos to stop him!
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helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
No way! Lendl is a tier II ATG. Djokovic is at best tier III, more likely tier IV. Lendl had many wins against 4-7 year younger ATGs, which is the true hallmark of greatness.
Fabresque
Legend
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