What is Medvedev problem on grass?

Jonesy

Hall of Fame
I can understand why he sucks on clay, his flat shots just don't penetrate enough.

But on grass.. i just can't see why he isn't a force there yet, perhaps 2 years ago his game just wasn't ready.

He has all the tools (good serve, good mover, small lag in his flat strokes) to go big at Wimby this year.
 

Hamnavoe

Hall of Fame
He's not a force there yet because he's not played on grass since really graduating and becoming a top player. His 2017/18 grass results were good for where he was ranked - in 2017 he made the quarters at Queen's, semis at Eastbourne and beat Wawrinka at Wimbledon, while in 2018 he reached the third round at Wimbledon after straight-setting Halle champion Coric in the first round.

2019 you could maybe say his results were somewhat underwhelming, losing to #38 Simon in the semis at Queen's and then defeat by #23 Goffin at Wimbledon (both while ranked #13 himself), but I don't think either of those are terrible defeats, particularly the close five-setter with Goffin, who had reached the final at Halle just a few weeks before.

I think with his flat shots + good serve and return he'll have fine results on grass.
 

Jonesy

Hall of Fame
He's not a force there yet because he's not played on grass since really graduating and becoming a top player. His 2017/18 grass results were good for where he was ranked - in 2017 he made the quarters at Queen's, semis at Eastbourne and beat Wawrinka at Wimbledon, while in 2018 he reached the third round at Wimbledon after straight-setting Halle champion Coric in the first round.

2019 you could maybe say his results were somewhat underwhelming, losing to #38 Simon in the semis at Queen's and then defeat by #23 Goffin at Wimbledon (both while ranked #13 himself), but I don't think either of those are terrible defeats, particularly the close five-setter with Goffin, who had reached the final at Halle just a few weeks before.

I think with his flat shots + good serve and return he'll have fine results on grass.
His confidence now is also higher than ever, this might make the difference.
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
He can't play offensive. People talk about his big serve (only sometimes), and his forehand is not a weapon. He is a defensive player.
He's more like a player who holds his ground extremely well and is good at pressuring players his tier or lower into errors with his firm strokes/pace. He has not mastered attacking the short ball in all the creative, versatile ways the big 3 can, and which today's modern clay court tennis Tour demands in order to end and control rallies against the best. He also doesn't have a handle on what passes for a "transition game" in this era.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
He can't play offensive. People talk about his big serve (only sometimes), and his forehand is not a weapon. He is a defensive player.
Exactly. He also stands back in the stands to receive serve, which hasn't worked for Nadal on grass, or Thiem, or anyone else opting for that "strategy." When Rafa won Wimbledon in 2008/2010 he was much more offensive in his returning stance. I can't see Med doing a damn thing on grass... ever.
 

Blahovic

Semi-Pro
Medvedev broke through at the slams at the 2019 US Open and he hasn't played a match on grass since. I don't think we can say he's not good on grass.

He could easily reach the QF/SF at Wimbledon this year.
 

wang07

Semi-Pro
His relatively big serve isn't enough if he can't finish the points quickly, even from the baseline. And at the net, well, he's just even worse, to put it lightly, which is also crucial on grass. He's a HC specialist, as strange as it may sound.
 

daggerman

Hall of Fame
I don't think there is any major impediment to his grass success, and in fact he's been pretty good on grass over a small sample of matches. He's 18-12 (60%) on grass overall, which pales in comparison to his 72.1% match win rate on hard court, but when you consider only his hardcourt matches from the beginning of his career up until the last hardcourt match he played before his last grass appearance (2019 Wimbledon), his hardcourt win rate is 65.8, not as starkly different from his grass win rate. Since his last match on grass, he's played 83 hardcourt matches, so obviously he's had a greater opportunity to demonstrate his prowess on that surface.

There are a couple minor factors that hinder his grass court game somewhat. When last we saw him on grass, he hadn't yet mastered sliding and recovering out of the corners. On hardcourt he pushes off beautifully off of his outside leg and can explode back towards the center of the court, but on grass his stops and starts are more staccato -- something that exacerbates the inherent disadvantage of his legginess. I also think he's generally vulnerable on his serve to deep middle returns, and on grass he has less time to handle them.

But despite those weaknesses, there's really no reason he can't beat just about anybody in the world at Wimbledon, and I expect a deep run from him this year. He'll most likely lose comprehensively to Novak or an in-form Roger if they meet, but I think he has his chances against anybody else.
 

tonylg

Legend
Hewitt had an infinitely more attacking game than Medvedev.

I think Medvedev will go deep at Wimbledon over the next few years. Not because he can play attacking tennis, but because it's no longer necessary.
 

Jonesy

Hall of Fame
How do we know that he has one? He's never gone into a grass season as a top 10 player. We'll see how he does this year and go from there.
You are right, this year will tell how much he evolved and if it translates to the surface.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
So were Hewitt and Murray and what are their best surfaces?
Hewitt was much better at stepping in and taking the ball early off both wings. Murray had a much better 1-2 punch (especially under Lendl). Not to mention that both were also adept at finishing points at the net and overall had much better hands.

Med is just a human backboard with excellent anticipation and counter-punching, that will only work on HC. Maybe he'll improve but as it stands, he has no game for grass, any grass.
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
Hewitt was much better at stepping in and taking the ball early off both wings. Murray had a much better 1-2 punch (especially under Lendl). Not to mention that both were also adept at finishing points at the net and overall had much better hands.

Med is just a human backboard with excellent anticipation and counter-punching, that will only work on HC. Maybe he'll improve but as it stands, he has no game for grass, any grass.
All true, but there are few players on tour that do. He'll probably be decent at some point at Wimbledon just by virtue of being good in general - not specifically on grass - relative to the tour.
 
Hewitt was much better at stepping in and taking the ball early off both wings. Murray had a much better 1-2 punch (especially under Lendl). Not to mention that both were also adept at finishing points at the net and overall had much better hands.

Med is just a human backboard with excellent anticipation and counter-punching, that will only work on HC. Maybe he'll improve but as it stands, he has no game for grass, any grass.
Novak? Literal definition of a grinder
 

vex

Hall of Fame
I can understand why he sucks on clay, his flat shots just don't penetrate enough.

But on grass.. i just can't see why he isn't a force there yet, perhaps 2 years ago his game just wasn't ready.

He has all the tools (good serve, good mover, small lag in his flat strokes) to go big at Wimby this year.
I’d say it’s probably the fact that the balls he’s swinging at aren’t jumping high enough for his flat shots to be as effective as they are on hard.

His game is kinda uniquely suited to hardcourts. He hits flat and that troubles people. Conversely people feed topspin balls into his strike zone.

but off harcourt it has been a different story. I think he’s not getting comfort zone balls on grass (and he’s probably just not practicing enough on grass frankly). On clay his flat shots aren’t as effective because they don’t penetrate as quickly as they do on hard.
 
Novak's 1-2 punch is like 10x better than Med's. Also, Novak's deceptively effective at the net. Med is horrid in the forecourt.

Overall, Med is a pretty limited player, I have no idea where all the hype comes from to be honest.
Med is the second best hard court player now, but that isn't saying much. Novak is of course better than Med but if he hadn't choked the final he could've been competitive. He is far better than Thiem unfortunately
 

tonylg

Legend
Med is the second best hard court player now, but that isn't saying much. Novak is of course better than Med but if he hadn't choked the final he could've been competitive. He is far better than Thiem unfortunately
They are all just baseline bots. Ironically, Thiem probably has the best hands but is least likely to actually use them.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Med is the second best hard court player now, but that isn't saying much. Novak is of course better than Med but if he hadn't choked the final he could've been competitive. He is far better than Thiem unfortunately
He could have played Novak tougher in the final but again, that's on HC. Nobody disputes Med is one of the best HC players on tour right now. I just don't see his skillset, the way it is at the moment, translating to grass.

I don't consider him better than Thiem either. He went down to him pretty meekly at USO when it was up for grabs with Novak DQ. Thiem also made several deep FO runs, so he proved himself a contender in slams on two surfaces.
 
I agree with the general sentiment here - just gotta wait and see this season. He's a totally different player now and his shots are deep and flat enough to work well on grass
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
There are less than a handful of players I would favor or rate even with Medfly on HCs; on grass that number swells significantly. In other words, anyone with a decent serve, a variety of spins on groundstrokes to make him neutral at best from the baseline and the instinct to end points instead of droning from the baseline has a shot:

Joe Kovic
fedr
The Nadal
Tsitsipas
Berrettini
Shapo
FAA
RBA
Goffin
Dimitrov
Stanimal
Humbert
Evans
Mannarino
Pella
Gasquet
Kyrgios
 

Blahovic

Semi-Pro
Novak's 1-2 punch is like 10x better than Med's. Also, Novak's deceptively effective at the net. Med is horrid in the forecourt.

Overall, Med is a pretty limited player, I have no idea where all the hype comes from to be honest.
The hype probably comes from him being the world number 2, winning the ATP Finals beating Nadal and Thiem, reaching 2 slam finals and winning 10 straight matches against the top 10.

People talk about Medvedev like he's a scrub just because he lost an Australian Open final to Djokovic, as if Nadal didn't get wasted by Djokovic at the AO in 2019 and then win 2 slams later that year.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
The hype probably comes from him being the world number 2, winning the ATP Finals beating Nadal and Thiem, reaching 2 slam finals and winning 10 straight matches against the top 10.
The dude's talked about like he's the next dominant player, ATG potential etc.

He's only good on HC and even then, he was pretty crappy in those 2 slam finals he reached (yes even against Nadal, he was so bad in the first two sets I though the dude was tanking). BO3 tourneys are up for grabs these days with Djokodal focusing on slams so much, I just don't find those wins that much impressive, sorry.

People talk about Medvedev like he's a scrub just because he lost an Australian Open final to Djokovic, as if Nadal didn't get wasted by Djokovic at the AO in 2019 and then win 2 slams later that year.
AO is Nadal's worst slam, he can be excused for a one-off mediocre performance against Novak in a slam.

Also, he can play on more surfaces than just HC.
 
The hype probably comes from him being the world number 2, winning the ATP Finals beating Nadal and Thiem, reaching 2 slam finals and winning 10 straight matches against the top 10.

People talk about Medvedev like he's a scrub just because he lost an Australian Open final to Djokovic, as if Nadal didn't get wasted by Djokovic at the AO in 2019 and then win 2 slams later that year.
Yep exactly, and he's younger than Thiem who although put up more of a fight still choked it away in 2020
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Just the normal stuff. He talks gibberish, gets paranoid and eats too much junk. And he forgets where he put his keys.
 

Blahovic

Semi-Pro
The dude's talked about like he's the next dominant player, ATG potential etc.

He's only good on HC and even then, he was pretty crappy in those 2 slam finals he reached (yes even against Nadal, he was so bad in the first two sets I though the dude was tanking). BO3 tourneys are up for grabs these days with Djokodal focusing on slams so much, I just don't find those wins that much impressive, sorry.



AO is Nadal's worst slam, he can be excused for a one-off mediocre performance against Novak in a slam.

Also, he can play on more surfaces than just HC.
People on forums have an incredible ability to talk about amazing players as if they are absolutely rubbish.

Medvedev combines being very tall with great movement, is extremely solid from both sides and can also hit aggressive from both sides. He can serve 130mph+ while being in all of his opponent's service games (he's the 6th best in the world over the last year for % of return games won, and none of the guys above him can serve as big as him).

And he wasn't "crappy" in the US Open 2019 final, it was a brilliant match. Nadal is an exceptionally tough opponent and has 4 US Opens, it's not exactly easy to win 2 sets against him in a final.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I can understand why he sucks on clay, his flat shots just don't penetrate enough.

But on grass.. i just can't see why he isn't a force there yet, perhaps 2 years ago his game just wasn't ready.

He has all the tools (good serve, good mover, small lag in his flat strokes) to go big at Wimby this year.
It’s his big pendulum loop forehand takeback. It’s great for hardcourt, where you can start the pendulum sweep before the bounce. But it doesn’t work as well on grass because you can’t adjust the sweep mid-swing to the less predictable bounce angle.

it’s the same reason heavyweight hitter Osaka struggles on grass, while lightweight retrievers Halep and Kerber are Wimbledon champs.
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
his problem is the same as most of his colleagues from flop-gen........as long as they do not overcome their inability to dictate play with their forehand, they will continue to suffer losses at the hands of bug-3.........
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
He stands way too far back and his strokes are very long, not that simple. I know grass isn't as fast as it once was, but it still is faster than most other surfaces and there's less time to react.
 
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