What is the best strategy for a hacker to improve?

[oldhacker]

Hi - I have been lurking for a while and learnt a lot but now need to ask for advice so here goes.

Basically my game has plateaued after playing for 3 years with only a bit if coaching at the start. Coaches and strong players who see me play say I could be so much better if I sorted out my technique (typical quote is "it looks as though there is a good player inside you struggling to get out") so I have taken the plunge and have started taking private lessons with a decent coach. It is expensive for me so I really need to make the most of it.

Problem is that I have reached a reasonable standard (I guess strong 3.5-4.0 altough I am in the UK so not sure) in the 3 years I have been playing and regularly play doubles in some decent fours - my doubles is pretty strong as I am a natural volleyer and have picked up good postioning habits. I am learning new technique in my lessons - for example a 1H topspin backhand whereas I previously only had a perculiar (but very consistant) cross hitting chop / slice. At my age (over 40) it takes some effort to retrain the muscle memory and to get the new strokes right I need to play at much lower pace than I am used to. So the problem is when I play with my regular doubles group I become a wek player if I try to play my new shots and if I revert to my old ones I am damaging the relearning process.

So what should I do? And how long do you think it should take? HArd as it may be I am thinking of just having lessons and practice hitting (wall, machine, partner if I can find one) for a few months and not playing any matches in order that I can learn the new forehand and backhand strokes and get them working to a degree which enables me to play at my previous level and then push on from there. Otherwise I fear I will be wasting the money I am spending on lessons and my game will end up confused and I will not achieve my goal of pushing on from where I was.

Thanks in advance for any help. I am sure others must have had similar experiences. Even my coach commnets on the number of people he coaches, gets them hitting right in lessons and then when he sees them playing matches they have reverted to their old game. And I can fully see why thios happens as it is pretty demoralising (and embarrassing) to see your new shots being picked off with ease by a good netman in doubles becuase you are nowhere near hitting them with decent pace yet.

 

[raiden031]

Stop reverting to your old game! I would recommend taking what your instructor teaches you and practice it against a wall. Thats how I learn ALL my new or corrected shots, because a wall provides the most repetitions in the shortest amount of time. Once I am comfortable with it on the wall, I then start using it on the court and its not so bad. Obviously changing from years of bad technique to good technique is going to hurt your match performance, but its probably necessary if you ever want to break 4.0 and move up.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I agree with Raiden. I too am taking pricey lessons to Straighten Certain Things Out. I did practice, use the wall, etc.

But I also played. I just told my doubles partners that I'm working up a new [whatever shot], and then I hit that shot correctly no matter what. This meant, for instance, that when I was learning Continental grip for serving that I used it on every serve, no matter how much I missed. So make sure you're playing with people who understand that.

After all, you do have to learn to use the new shot when it counts someday.

 

[Budgerigar]

total understand, i've reverted to slices playing lots doubles. play singles to hone topspin game.

 

[Tennismastery]

If you continue to use 3.5 level shots, you will stay at the 3.5 level of the rest of your life.

Using ineffective form for X number of years will never 'spontaneously' evolve into higher levels of skilled play.

As others have mentioned, every time you revert back to your 'hacking' methodology you not only are that much further from developing better form, you are ingraining those methods which are comfortable and familiar and avoiding those methods which you need to BECOME comfortable and familiar with.

Avoiding that which you are trying to achieve...you will only achieve that which you are trying to avoid.

Use your new techniques at speeds that allow you to hit with balance and success...to many players who learn new methods try to swing with the speed that they may have used with their old methods. This is not only not good for results, but you are more likely to revert back to old methods when you see that the new methods are failing...which you will be more tempted to do when you are playing doubles...because you don't want to let your partner down.

 

[oldhacker]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I know what I need to do. Still have that nagging fear that I will not progress using my new more technically correct form. I suppose it is borne out of the fact that my old self taught style with only 3 years of playing enabled me to beat many more technically correct players who had been playing much longer and everyone I know who has been playing the same amount of time. My hope is that the reason for that is that I have above average natural ability and that will enable me to progress further once I have mastered the new techniques.

It is certainly hard initially as my doubles fours will not make allowances for me hitting soft balls with correct form so I will have to drop out for a while. Also from hitting with more correct form and from playing against players with correct form I do find it more predictable and so easier to play against than someone who improvises. Much of my old style of play was borne out of much time spent playing ping pong in the past - meaning that I used a lot of wrist and hit across the ball to generate winning angles.

 

[Jet Rink]

Honestly? Get - and stay - fit. All else will follow. You will be able to hit more and diverse shots if you are fit, which will lead to better, stronger play, etc., etc., etc.,

Jet

 

[oldhacker]

Great advice Tennismastery - thanks. From your experience could you give a ballpark figure for how long it should take a player who has changed a stroke to hit with better form before the new stroke is as strong as the old one is? Take my forehand for example - my old stroke was pretty reliable - hit open stance but with an over-elaborate loop / backswing and little shoulder rotation meaning that I was arming the ball too much. Coach has got me rotating well and simplified my backswing. I can see the long term benefits of the change as the simpler backswing means I can cope with harder deep balls better without getting tucked up due to being late on the ball and the rotation makes it all a lot smoother and should give access to more power in time as well as reducing strain on shoulder. But because there is more going on what with using shoulder rotation rather than just arm my timing and ability to hit the shot (depth, height, angle) I want is way down on where I was. Providing I practice the new form regularly and avoid reverting to my old form how long do you think it should take?

If you continue to use 3.5 level shots, you will stay at the 3.5 level of the rest of your life.

Using ineffective form for X number of years will never 'spontaneously' evolve into higher levels of skilled play.

As others have mentioned, every time you revert back to your 'hacking' methodology you not only are that much further from developing better form, you are ingraining those methods which are comfortable and familiar and avoiding those methods which you need to BECOME comfortable and familiar with.

Avoiding that which you are trying to achieve...you will only achieve that which you are trying to avoid.

Use your new techniques at speeds that allow you to hit with balance and success...to many players who learn new methods try to swing with the speed that they may have used with their old methods. This is not only not good for results, but you are more likely to revert back to old methods when you see that the new methods are failing...which you will be more tempted to do when you are playing doubles...because you don't want to let your partner down.

 

[raiden031]

tennismastery, do you talk about this stuff in great depth in your book?

 

[oldhacker]

Good point Budgerigar - I had not thought of that. I play mostly doubles and that is where my hitting at a slower pace really shows up as the opposing netman (I play with / against some pretty good doubles players) just gobbles them up. When I do get to play singles I have not had such a problem and in fact my new topspin backhand, even at modest pace, has already been an asset in long rallies when I am on top as my opponent cannot go to the backhand to draw a slower slice cross court to give him time to recover anymore. I can now hit TS backhand down the line which keeps him moving side to side and does not give him recovery time.

total understand, i've reverted to slices playing lots doubles. play singles to hone topspin game.

 

[Tennismastery]

Great advice Tennismastery - thanks. From your experience could you give a ballpark figure for how long it should take a player who has changed a stroke to hit with better form before the new stroke is as strong as the old one is? Take my forehand for example - my old stroke was pretty reliable - hit open stance but with an over-elaborate loop / backswing and little shoulder rotation meaning that I was arming the ball too much. Coach has got me rotating well and simplified my backswing. I can see the long term benefits of the change as the simpler backswing means I can cope with harder deep balls better without getting tucked up due to being late on the ball and the rotation makes it all a lot smoother and should give access to more power in time as well as reducing strain on shoulder. But because there is more going on what with using shoulder rotation rather than just arm my timing and ability to hit the shot (depth, height, angle) I want is way down on where I was. Providing I practice the new form regularly and avoid reverting to my old form how long do you think it should take?

The time figure will vary from player to player based on many variables. You certainly can speed up the process by doing several things:

1. Imagine the right shot in your head as much as you can when you are NOT on the court.

2. Shadow swing the new stroke/grip/footwork pattern at home in the mirrorl

3. Look into buying a 'PracticeHit' a device that has a ball on the end of a shaft that you can hit as the ball oscilates back and forth giving you the opportunity to work specifically on the stroke without the distraction of where a ball is being hit. (You will change a desired stroke to accomatate hitting to a target...so, develop your swing before you work on aiming with a real ball.) By the way, I'm not affiliated with this device at all... I use them a lot in my clinics and when working with people like yourself who are trying to create a new swing pattern. You can learn more about the device at www.practicehit.com.

4. Work on a ball machine and a hitting partner not in playing points but working on specific shots that you want to incorporate in your games.

5. Apply the new stroke in every single opportunity you can for 3 months in any match you play. Even if the shot is not perhaps the best shot for the situation. By using it exclusively, you will learn so much faster how to better be in position, when to use it, and you won't be as likely to revert back.

Hope this helps! Good Luck!

 

[Tennismastery]

tennismastery, do you talk about this stuff in great depth in your book?

Yes. The big difference in my book and the hundreds of others out there is that I strongly suggest that players NOT develop rudementary methods just to 'play' tennis. I use what I call the 'Advanced Foundation' a pattern of methodology that does NOT have to change for a player to become an advanced player...yet does allow for player idiosyncracies and personality to evolve this foundation to complement the methods.

Instead of HAVING to change (as players so often discover and find difficulty in making significant change from their basic beginner introductory strokes), players learn the Advanced Foundation and are able TO change as their personality and general strengths are discovered.

 

[raiden031]

Yes. The big difference in my book and the hundreds of others out there is that I strongly suggest that players NOT develop rudementary methods just to 'play' tennis. I use what I call the 'Advanced Foundation' a pattern of methodology that does NOT have to change for a player to become an advanced player...yet does allow for player idiosyncracies and personality to evolve this foundation to complement the methods.

Instead of HAVING to change (as players so often discover and find difficulty in making significant change from their basic beginner introductory strokes), players learn the Advanced Foundation and are able TO change as their personality and general strengths are discovered.

I'm very curious to read more into this, because I have my own beliefs about development in tennis that pretty much follow what you say.

So I just ordered it. Wow I never got to tell an author that I just purchased their book. I feel privileged.

Do you have any opinions on racquet choices?

 

[Tennismastery]

I'm very curious to read more into this, because I have my own beliefs about development in tennis that pretty much follow what you say.

So I just ordered it. Wow I never got to tell an author that I just purchased their book. I feel privileged.

Do you have any opinions on racquet choices?

Hey, thanks for taking an interest and picking up the book! Nice thing about tennis, it is a small world!

Regarding racquets, if your talking about brands, you pretty much can't go wrong with any of them. Unlike twenty five years ago, most all the brands today are very good. I am a Wilson dealer and Premier Staff Member...so, I of course, recommend Wilson. But, in reality, there are many great racquets out there.

If your talking about type of racquet, from head size to weight, from balance to stiffness, it is very much a personal choice that players need to play-test a number of racquets. The Swing-index is a guide for most racquets...but just that, a guide. I recommend players using racquets that closely match their swing index and work out from there. (Going to heavier or lighter, stiffer or more flex, head heavier or lighter.)

Thanks again for ordering my book. I will welcome your comments and thoughts.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Raiden,

Pssssssst . . .

There is a tennis store on Georgia Avenue in Wheaton called Sports World. They sell everything. They were nice and hooked me up, as I don't know much about stringing, racquets. You demo for $3 per day, with the demo fees going toward purchase. Small local business.

Hope it's OK for me to say that. I've no affiliation with the store at all.

Cindy -- happy Babolat owner

 

[samizram]

I agree with Raiden. I too am taking pricey lessons to Straighten Certain Things Out. I did practice, use the wall, etc.

But I also played. I just told my doubles partners that I'm working up a new [whatever shot], and then I hit that shot correctly no matter what. This meant, for instance, that when I was learning Continental grip for serving that I used it on every serve, no matter how much I missed. So make sure you're playing with people who understand that.

After all, you do have to learn to use the new shot when it counts someday.

They don't mind you using them that way? Really? Or are they just afraid to say so?

Why play a match if you're not playing to win? Practice when you're not keeping score. It would be bad enough to be so selfish in a singles match, because you aren't really trying to win so you rob your opponent of the satisfaction she should get from winning. But to do it DOUBLES? That's a team sport, you know.

Why should your partner try to win then? Why should your opponents bother playing you if you aren't trying to win?

You call using a grip "no matter how many times it makes you miss" using that grip "when it counts"? Say what? Hey, if it counted, you wouldn't keep doing it no matter how often it makes you miss. So much for that justification.

While you're learning a new stroke or grip, you have to give up playing matches.

 

[The Gorilla]

The time figure will vary from player to player based on many variables. You certainly can speed up the process by doing several things:

1. Imagine the right shot in your head as much as you can when you are NOT on the court.

2. Shadow swing the new stroke/grip/footwork pattern at home in the mirrorl

3. Look into buying a 'PracticeHit' a device that has a ball on the end of a shaft that you can hit as the ball oscilates back and forth giving you the opportunity to work specifically on the stroke without the distraction of where a ball is being hit. (You will change a desired stroke to accomatate hitting to a target...so, develop your swing before you work on aiming with a real ball.) By the way, I'm not affiliated with this device at all... I use them a lot in my clinics and when working with people like yourself who are trying to create a new swing pattern. You can learn more about the device at www.practicehit.com.

4. Work on a ball machine and a hitting partner not in playing points but working on specific shots that you want to incorporate in your games.

5. Apply the new stroke in every single opportunity you can for 3 months in any match you play. Even if the shot is not perhaps the best shot for the situation. By using it exclusively, you will learn so much faster how to better be in position, when to use it, and you won't be as likely to revert back.

Hope this helps! Good Luck!

yeah, I'd advise you to get a cinderblock, ( big hollow grey brick), buy some elastic string at your local hardware store, buy a big sewing needle and make one of your own, very easy to do, and thye're brilliant.They're also often sold as toys too, so be on the lookout for them.

 

[Cindysphinx]

They don't mind you using them that way? Really? Or are they just afraid to say so?

Why play a match if you're not playing to win? Practice when you're not keeping score. It would be bad enough to be so selfish in a singles match, because you aren't really trying to win so you rob your opponent of the satisfaction she should get from winning. But to do it DOUBLES? That's a team sport, you know.

Why should your partner try to win then? Why should your opponents bother playing you if you aren't trying to win?

You call using a grip "no matter how many times it makes you miss" using that grip "when it counts"? Say what? Hey, if it counted, you wouldn't keep doing it no matter how often it makes you miss. So much for that justification.

While you're learning a new stroke or grip, you have to give up playing matches.

"Why play a match if you're not playing to win?"

I am describing weekly *friendly* matches of players of the same level. You know, the kind of match where you're loose about many of the rules (water breaks, cell phone breaks, lateness, etc.) Where you would take additional risk of missing an overhead to avoid drilling your opponent. In these matches, my opponents and partner are sometimes working on things, albeit different things. No one is "trying to win." We are "trying to improve" and "trying to have fun."

I see nothing wrong with teling your opponents/partner beforehand that you'll be working on a certain shot (slice forehand) more than you usually do and you might miss a lot.

Your mileage may vary, and apparently it does.

 

[samizram]

"Why play a match if you're not playing to win?"

I am describing weekly *friendly* matches of players of the same level. You know, the kind of match where you're loose about many of the rules (water breaks, cell phone breaks, lateness, etc.) Where you would take additional risk of missing an overhead to avoid drilling your opponent. In these matches, my opponents and partner are sometimes working on things, albeit different things. No one is "trying to win." We are "trying to improve" and "trying to have fun."

I see nothing wrong with teling your opponents/partner beforehand that you'll be working on a certain shot (slice forehand) more than you usually do and you might miss a lot.

Your mileage may vary, and apparently it does.

You just don't get it, do you? You need to think of the morality of what you're saying. It is wrong to play any game with any object other than to win it. Actually winning may not be important, but PLAYING TO WIN IS. If you don't, you're using people. That's selfish. That's having no common goal. If you wanna just have fun, hit. People keep score to see who wins. That is fun too if you're not afraid to try your best to win and maybe lose instead.

And where do you get the idea that there is something "unfriendly" about playing to win? It isn't war, it's a game. Where do you get the idea that playing to win isn't fun? It is. It's a blast, thrilling.

When players work on their strokes, they play with one other person who is also practicing. You know - a PRACTICE partner. They may play practice points and sets, but they don't keep score and they don't play real matches with partners and opponents who would like to win.

 

[Tennismastery]

yeah, I'd advise you to get a cinderblock, ( big hollow grey brick), buy some elastic string at your local hardware store, buy a big sewing needle and make one of your own, very easy to do, and thye're brilliant.They're also often sold as toys too, so be on the lookout for them.

Actually, you are describing the 'Recoil Ball' which is a ball you hit that is on an elastic band and connected to a base of some kind. The PracticeHit is a foam ball attached to the end of a fiberglass shaft that is on a pin connected to a water-filled base. The shaft can swing back and forth when hit and can be made to oscillate slower or faster by the elastic band that contols this aspect.

This type of device is used to practice a stroke when you don't want the ball to go anywhere but want to actually 'hit' a moving object coming towards you.

I seldom use many teaching 'gimmicks' but this one is unique and very useful for teaching stroke mechanics to kids and adults and to help players practice a new technique for groundstrokes at home when they can't be on the court.

 

[The Gorilla]

Actually, you are describing the 'Recoil Ball' which is a ball you hit that is on an elastic band and connected to a base of some kind. The PracticeHit is a foam ball attached to the end of a fiberglass shaft that is on a pin connected to a water-filled base. The shaft can swing back and forth when hit and can be made to oscillate slower or faster by the elastic band that contols this aspect.

This type of device is used to practice a stroke when you don't want the ball to go anywhere but want to actually 'hit' a moving object coming towards you.

I seldom use many teaching 'gimmicks' but this one is unique and very useful for teaching stroke mechanics to kids and adults and to help players practice a new technique for groundstrokes at home when they can't be on the court.

is it better than the recoil ball?A recoil ball allows you to hit balls at different heights, does the practisehit allow you to do this?
can the foam ball take spin?

Just to avoid a misunderstanding I'm not questioning your expertise here, I'm just wondering.

 

[Tennismastery]

is it better than the recoil ball?A recoil ball allows you to hit balls at different heights, does the practisehit allow you to do this?
can the foam ball take spin?

Just to avoid a misunderstanding I'm not questioning your expertise here, I'm just wondering.

A recoil ball has the ball travel a distance and then return. It is hard to master for most players. With the PracticeHit, you can set it on a something to work high balls; I've seen people put them on chairs, benches, etc., to hit shoulder high balls. It has limitations since the ball only goes back and forth. But, like I mentioned, it is great for developing strokes early on or changing a particular swing path.

I used one with my daughter when she was about 5. We spent no more than 20 minutes over the course of a year, just having her swing a dozen forehands and a dozen backhands any given moment. But, it allowed me to structure her swing pattern, footwork, and follow-through. The first time we went on the court at 6 years of age, her swing was as perfect as anyone and she hit really great topspin shots from the start. Why? Because her swing was defined.

Anyway, more information than you were probably seeking. Check out the guy's web site and you can see lots of video clips of players using it. (Including one of me demonstrating the two-handed forehand while I was speaking at tennis covention in So. Calif.)

 

[Cindysphinx]

You just don't get it, do you? You need to think of the morality of what you're saying. It is wrong to play any game with any object other than to win it. Actually winning may not be important, but PLAYING TO WIN IS. If you don't, you're using people. That's selfish. That's having no common goal. If you wanna just have fun, hit. People keep score to see who wins. That is fun too if you're not afraid to try your best to win and maybe lose instead.

And where do you get the idea that there is something "unfriendly" about playing to win? It isn't war, it's a game. Where do you get the idea that playing to win isn't fun? It is. It's a blast, thrilling.

When players work on their strokes, they play with one other person who is also practicing. You know - a PRACTICE partner. They may play practice points and sets, but they don't keep score and they don't play real matches with partners and opponents who would like to win.

Um, OK.

You win, Dude.

 

[Bagumbawalla]

I'm sure this has been said, already, in other words, but I believe that you do not develop your game "playing" tennis- you progress by "practicing" tennis and tennis drills.

To move up to a solid 4.0 (or higher) you need to develop the skills/strokes/movement and tactics that a player at that level must have.

You need to learn proper footwork and body mechanics. You need to work on stamina and fitness. You need to practice your newly learned skills until they become a part of you.

Then-- you need to challange yourself against better players. When you play well, remember how you palyed. When you lose, remeber your mistakes and work on correcting them- them. Practice, practice, practice, and try again.

You should have some kind of plan of progress and not just a hope that you can muddle through to greatness.

Let us know what happens, and good luck,

B

 

[raiden031]

You just don't get it, do you? You need to think of the morality of what you're saying. It is wrong to play any game with any object other than to win it. Actually winning may not be important, but PLAYING TO WIN IS. If you don't, you're using people. That's selfish. That's having no common goal. If you wanna just have fun, hit. People keep score to see who wins. That is fun too if you're not afraid to try your best to win and maybe lose instead.

And where do you get the idea that there is something "unfriendly" about playing to win? It isn't war, it's a game. Where do you get the idea that playing to win isn't fun? It is. It's a blast, thrilling.

When players work on their strokes, they play with one other person who is also practicing. You know - a PRACTICE partner. They may play practice points and sets, but they don't keep score and they don't play real matches with partners and opponents who would like to win.

If you take steps to correct poor stroke form or work on a new shot that may lead to temporary inconsistency in your play, you can't revert back to your old ways when playing matches. You have to learn to have confidence in those shots by using them in a match, not just in practice. Trying to play with solid technique IS playing your best, unlike playing with poor form where you stagnate at 3.0-3.5 for the rest of your life.

 

[oldhacker]

Thanks for the tips Tennismastery. I think I will buy a copy of your book as well if I can find it in the UK ! Sounds like you have some interesting ideas. Tennis is certainly a tough game to progress in of you do not have a lot of time and money to throw at it because it is so technical and poor trchnique is such a limitation. In my case I had a few lessons as a beginner 3 years ago but lack of time, lack of money and not being sure whether tennis was for me meant I have had none since until now. So while I learnt some solid basics at the start my homepsun attempts to progress them have left me with dodgy technique - although it does enable me to beat most club players I encounter even those with much prettier more heavily coached strokes. I suppose most club players are in the same boat and that is why so many get stuck at a certain level and never progress any further no matter how many years they play for. From a public health point of view that is no bad thing as it means many have access to regualr exercice with players around their standard and enjoy it enough to play regularly. Not so good from a tennis development point of view though

 

[booky]

keep trying!!

 

[Tennismastery]

Thanks for the tips Tennismastery. I think I will buy a copy of your book as well if I can find it in the UK ! Sounds like you have some interesting ideas. Tennis is certainly a tough game to progress in of you do not have a lot of time and money to throw at it because it is so technical and poor trchnique is such a limitation. In my case I had a few lessons as a beginner 3 years ago but lack of time, lack of money and not being sure whether tennis was for me meant I have had none since until now. So while I learnt some solid basics at the start my homepsun attempts to progress them have left me with dodgy technique - although it does enable me to beat most club players I encounter even those with much prettier more heavily coached strokes. I suppose most club players are in the same boat and that is why so many get stuck at a certain level and never progress any further no matter how many years they play for. From a public health point of view that is no bad thing as it means many have access to regualr exercice with players around their standard and enjoy it enough to play regularly. Not so good from a tennis development point of view though

Tennis development is interesting. Those who, like yourself, develop your 'own' strokes, tend to do well at lower levels, and often against players who are taking lessons and using more prolific form. This, however, makes sense when you consider you are using form that is most 'comfortable' to you and others, those using more prolific form are usually in a 'learning-to-be-comfortable' stage with everything from grip to swing pattern to footwork.

As you will probably see, you will stop improving--as far as strokes go--and start beating you down the road. You can improve your foot speed, quickness, seeing the ball, etc., but if your strokes don't continue to provide with this basic prinicple:

Hit more effective shots more consistently; defend more effective shots hit by opponents more consistently...

Then you will stagnate at a level that is most likely not at your true tennis potential.

I don't believe you have to have a lot of money today to get good. There are web sites (like tennisone.com, tennisplayer.net and hi-techtennis.com) which can give you the right 'blueprint' for learning to hit with better strokes.

My book, which I appreciate your interest in, will provide you with a clear progression in which you can expect to play at your highest level in time.

Remember, like anything that you expect to play skillfully--like playing a musical instrument, learning to type well, learning to play golf well--all take dedication to the right methods and discipline to use them in every opportunity. Reverting back to old simpleton ways will not make you a skillful player.

Good luck and please let me know if you have any comments after reading my book.