What is the correlation of the number of edges in a shaped poly have to do with spin potential?
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Injured Again
Hall of Fame
I believe it depends on what creates high spin potential. I've tested about a dozen shaped poly strings recently and two of the three highest spin capable strings were square shaped with sharp edges (Cube and V-Square). Another square string, Hyper-G, with less sharp edges wasn't as spin capable, at least with my swing style. It seems a square string would really only present one edge to grip the ball, yet for me that seems to have been enough.
V-Torque was also highly spin capable for me, more so than Solstice Power that feels equally "rough" and both these strings have multiple edges in contact with the ball at any moment.
I think the jury is still out as to what characteristics create maximum spin. I tested Cube as a full bed and then the Neon Hybrid which is essentially a slightly stiffer Cube with a round cross and that had less spin capability so a round cross didn't help in that case.
TWU lists spin potential in their string database but I think everyone can name at least one string which doesn't match the spin potential number.
I guess that's why there so much value in things like the string testing that TW does.
V-Torque was also highly spin capable for me, more so than Solstice Power that feels equally "rough" and both these strings have multiple edges in contact with the ball at any moment.
I think the jury is still out as to what characteristics create maximum spin. I tested Cube as a full bed and then the Neon Hybrid which is essentially a slightly stiffer Cube with a round cross and that had less spin capability so a round cross didn't help in that case.
TWU lists spin potential in their string database but I think everyone can name at least one string which doesn't match the spin potential number.
I guess that's why there so much value in things like the string testing that TW does.
Ashtonbrewer94
Rookie
I believe spin potential is based on the following, in order:
1. Swing mechanics (string means nothing if the mechanics are poor)
2. Racquet head speed (the faster you swing on the proper path with proper face angle, the more spin, regardless of string)
3. String snapback (There are round polys that allow much more spin than some shaped polys because the texture allows for more snapback)
4. String shape (I believe the reason square shapes provide more spin over 6-8 sided polys is because of the amount of surface area of the string. To me, RPM blast has hardly any shape to it at all, even though it’s listed as an octagonal profile. Which makes sense, because with so little surface area to work with, trying to make an 8-sided string “sharp” is probably not going to happen without making in between the edges too thin, causing premature breakage. With a square poly, you can make the edges much sharper without compromising the rest of the surface area of the string. Plus the flat profile of a square allows it to slide nicely as well.)
1. Swing mechanics (string means nothing if the mechanics are poor)
2. Racquet head speed (the faster you swing on the proper path with proper face angle, the more spin, regardless of string)
3. String snapback (There are round polys that allow much more spin than some shaped polys because the texture allows for more snapback)
4. String shape (I believe the reason square shapes provide more spin over 6-8 sided polys is because of the amount of surface area of the string. To me, RPM blast has hardly any shape to it at all, even though it’s listed as an octagonal profile. Which makes sense, because with so little surface area to work with, trying to make an 8-sided string “sharp” is probably not going to happen without making in between the edges too thin, causing premature breakage. With a square poly, you can make the edges much sharper without compromising the rest of the surface area of the string. Plus the flat profile of a square allows it to slide nicely as well.)
esgee48
G.O.A.T.
Go into TWU string reporter and create a report of all poly strings and their spin potential. Pick one swing speed and tension closest to what you are. Copy the results into an spreadsheet. For each string add a column for number of edges. That will be 3,4,5,6,7,8 and >8 call it 16 or something. Now ask the program to correlate spin potential against number of edges. R^2 is << 25% which means it ain't correlated. If you haven't heard, it's the player and not the equipment. 
Last edited:
I guess I forgot to state ‘assuming all other factors being equal’...anyways, ive found that sharp edges definitely produce more spin/bite and my game drastically deteriorates when I use a shaped poly that is easily worn down (dunlop black widow, msv cofocus hex, ytex quadro twist) so I tend to gravitate towards poly that maintains shape (Xperience, solstice power) I was just wondering how the difference between 4-10 sharp edges affects the spin/bite on the ball...diadem’s star shaped string solstice power has pretty insane spin and tourna silver 7 tour came out with their own version that I plan on trying soon.
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futureverdasco
Rookie
There are a lot of different components for shaped strings and spin potential. Besides stroke mechanics and swing speed, a lot of the spin from shaped strings comes from the snap back or slide back of the string when you make contact. For example Nadal, Warwinka and other rpm blast users can generate a lot of spin from the Octagonal shaped design.It’s almost a round poly so it can easily slide back smoothly yet still bite the ball with its 8 edges. Solinco Tour bite users as well generate a lot of spin with its hexagonal shaped edges. Lower number of edges like Hyper G (4 sides) offer more bite/control but less snap back. It’s about finding the combination of both SnapBack and edges that you personally like and how it matches your mechanics that will help you generate the spin you want.
Taveren
Professional
IME shaped polys give that feel that the strings are biting/grabbing the ball more hence the perceived higher spin potential as compared to round strings. In my level of play there is not a significant increase in actual rpms but definitely noticeable feel of bite on the ball.
i thought tour bite was square shaped...i thought all solinco strings were square shaped...
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Injured Again
Hall of Fame
It looks to be a five sided string, and the edges aren't that sharp so it's one of the more lightly shaped poly strings.
This is from TW website:
Solinco Tour Bite is a polyester monofilament that provides excellent control and remarkable spin. This explains why it is extremely popular at the collegiate level. Our testers noticed immediately how well the square profile gripped the ball. This is not only a perfect string for players seeking more control and spin, but it also packs a punch for those who favor a heavy ball.
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Injured Again
Hall of Fame
You, and the TW web site, are correct. It is a four sided string. I pulled out a magnifying glass and looked more closely at the 1.30 gauge that I examined earlier and thought that it had five sides. Here's a picture of it compared to a 1.20 gauge V-Square - they look almost the same cross section and in real life the V-Square is obviously square and with much sharper edges than Tour Bite. It's much more apparent than shows in this picture.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Good players will produce topspin with almost any string. This is because spin is produced by your swing angle upwards and your swing speed. What poly does is it allows you to swing way way faster without generating so much power that you lose control. Whether it is shaped or smooth is personal preference based on how the string bed feels to you.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Having sufficient racquet head speed and good swing fundamentals are fundamentally important but while the actual mechanism that produces extra spin with poly strings may be in dispute, testing has shown that poly strings generate more spin than nylon strings by significant amounts.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/spinexperiment.php
VacationTennis
Semi-Pro
Interesting, I always thought TB was pentagonal.
WestboroChe
Hall of Fame
To answer the question really not much. The research seems to show that string SnapBack is the biggest contributor to spin (ignoring technique).
The fact that poly generates so much spin has much more to do with how little string on string friction is there. The shape might help a little but I am skeptical that it does anything at all.
The fact that poly generates so much spin has much more to do with how little string on string friction is there. The shape might help a little but I am skeptical that it does anything at all.
Strawbewwy
Rookie
this is just my opinion after having strung for various level of players now:
as others have mentioned i think the significant difference between shaped and not shaped, or to the OP's question, less sides (less round, generally sharper edges) vs more sides (more round, closer to not shaped but obviously still not smooth) is the bite. For someone with a higher level of technique, someone who's able to drive the ball and shape the ball, the difference between the shaped/smooth or less edges/more edges is less noticeable, a smooth poly will allow the string to move freely (produces spin) and a shaped poly will bite the ball (which also produces spin).
it's significantly more noticeable for a lower level player, where the extra bite actually does most if not all the work for the player, think about someone who doesn't drive or shape the ball, (think on impact the stringbed doesn't move at all). for this scenario a smooth poly won't really help produce the spin, while a shaped string would help significantly just from biting the ball with the edge
as others have mentioned i think the significant difference between shaped and not shaped, or to the OP's question, less sides (less round, generally sharper edges) vs more sides (more round, closer to not shaped but obviously still not smooth) is the bite. For someone with a higher level of technique, someone who's able to drive the ball and shape the ball, the difference between the shaped/smooth or less edges/more edges is less noticeable, a smooth poly will allow the string to move freely (produces spin) and a shaped poly will bite the ball (which also produces spin).
it's significantly more noticeable for a lower level player, where the extra bite actually does most if not all the work for the player, think about someone who doesn't drive or shape the ball, (think on impact the stringbed doesn't move at all). for this scenario a smooth poly won't really help produce the spin, while a shaped string would help significantly just from biting the ball with the edge
This is why I think the square shaped strings are the best. The flat sides slide against each other really well and the corners also grab the ball really well. It's the best combination. This of course assumes the square string you are using is a good slick poly material. I suppose you could find one that is not slick and it wouldn't work so well.
Of course the most important thing is always technique, but 10% more spin for someone with good technique is a noticeable difference.
WestboroChe
Hall of Fame
I guess that’s a good point. A shaped string could contribute to reduced string to string friction but only with some shapes. I can imagine more complex shapes actually locking up.
Yeah, the only other shape I've had a noticeable difference with is the toothed gear shape like Kirschbaum Spiky Shark. I don't find those to be as good as the square though. The Spiky Shark was just marginally better than the Kirschbaum Competition I used prior to SS, but I could tell a difference.
i have found that diadem solstice power is among the best in spin because of its star shaped profile with protruding edges...I believe the best spin strings have the sharpest most protruding edges while minimizing string to string friction for snapback. Never really good into solinco strings because they simply dont provide enough power
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danbrenner
Legend
For all of the banter back and forth, only one method of testing will have any value on this thread. And this goes for all of us me included. Take two identical sticks. String one with hyper g. And strung the other with round poly Play them side by side two games with one. And two games with the other. Alternate until you come up with clear distinctions between the two. Then and only then will our opinions be valid. The end
shaped poly(such as hyperG) vs round poly
the spin potential/ball bite is not even close, the shaped will bite and generate spin way more...the reason I started this thread is because I wanted to know the difference in spin potential between square shape (hyperG), pentagonal shape, hexagonal shape (Xperience), heptagonal shape (black widow) decagonal shape (cyclone)...of course some strings having sharper edges (solstice power) will have more bite/spin potential but assuming all factors being equal besides number of sides/edges, which would generate more spin?
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LocNetMonster
Professional
I agree with the first three points. On string shape, IME, I believe triangle shaped polys out perform squares. If the mains are strung the right way, so that one of the three hypotenuses lays flat against the cross string, the spin potential seems much greater due to the sharp edges facing upward on the string bed. I've tried square and octy shapes side by side with Tier One's Firewire. FW wins every time simply because there is a lot more bite.
One other thought: What is left from this list is:
5. Cross string friction. The lower level of friction, the greater potential. This can be done through: 1) using a 6+ sided string so that there less surface area contact where the mains and crosses touch; or 2) using thinner string gauges 18, 19 or 20g; or 3) a coated string to produce a slippery surface; or 4) lowering the tension of the crosses; or 5) any combination of 1-4 to achieve minimal friction between the crosses and mains.
6. String pattern. Open patterns racquets produce more spin.
Now that makes some sense, but I wonder how well the triangle shape will stay in position and what happens as it wears. I may have to find a couple of triangle strings to try. My experience with UC is that the edges stay quite sharp, on the mains at least, and the surface remains slick. So bite and slide remain very steady for me. If a triangle string can bite better and slide the same that would seem to be an even better choice. For me less edges have seemed to be better because the edge has more material and holds up better. A triangle would seem to be along those lines, but maybe it's starting to go the wrong direction again. Just have to try it and see. Thanks for bringing up the triangle option. It's been so long since I've seen one I totally forgot about them.
WestboroChe
Hall of Fame
I think the triangle will ultimately lead to a sawing effect as the strings move around. While I can see the benefits of this in a short experimental setting I think unless you are willing to change racquets every 30 minutes you are going to get the edges wearing down and the benefit lost and other problems possibly developing.
I think the best cross section shape for strings is still a circle.
jwocky
Rookie
Are you suggesting:
stringing the crosses before the mains? andthe stringer strategically weaving the mains with a twist to allow the flat side to rest against every cross?OR
production of a triangular profiled string with a twist (to accommodate one flat side against a cross), However, this would then have to be customized to every racquet's differently spaced crosses?OR
It may be that I have had too much coffee or THIS?So far I totally agree with you, except for square. Of course I've only tried one square string so far, but I like it better than any other full poly I've used up to this point. It could be an outlier and the other square strings might not be so good, but I've seen quite a few people like square better than round too, so I'm going square 1, round 2 for now. It will be a while before I test any other shapes though. My current string is lasting really well and I have about 16 stringings left on my reel, so I'm thinking maybe thanksgiving of next year before I mess with anything new.
WestboroChe
Hall of Fame
I’m thinking a shape like a square or octagon or what have you is going to be worn on the edges pretty quickly resulting in a more circular shape. In the meantime that extra wear should reduce the lifetime of the strings.So far I totally agree with you, except for square. Of course I've only tried one square string so far, but I like it better than any other full poly I've used up to this point. It could be an outlier and the other square strings might not be so good, but I've seen quite a few people like square better than round too, so I'm going square 1, round 2 for now. It will be a while before I test any other shapes though. My current string is lasting really well and I have about 16 stringings left on my reel, so I'm thinking maybe thanksgiving of next year before I mess with anything new.
Square strings have more volume than circular strings at a certain gauge depending on how the gauge is measured, so there is more material to wear. They can also wear flat against flat so it takes longer for the notching to do it's damage. This seems to be the case for me with Ultra Cable.
With triangular strings that would seem to be less volume and less material to wear through, so I think your theory might apply better to triangular strings. In my experience I didn't really notice anything special about hexagonal or octagonal strings and don't think there is much benefit to them compared to circular. The star shaped or toothed strings like spiky shark do seem to grab quite well, but the grab doesn't last the life of the string like it seems to with Ultra Cannon. I did quite like spiky shark though, so their might be other versions of toothed strings that perform quite well.
D
Deleted member 369227
Guest
Actually, Tour Bite is a pentagonal string.
actually it’s square shaped.
Direct from TW website:
Solinco Tour Bite is a polyester monofilament that provides excellent control and remarkable spin. This explains why it is extremely popular at the collegiate level. Our testers noticed immediately how well the square profile gripped the ball. This is not only a perfect string for players seeking more control and spin, but it also packs a punch for those who favor a heavy ball.
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LocNetMonster
Professional
Start with @TierOneSportsOfficial Firewire as your main string. Put in whatever cross you string you want. I've tested nylon, sgut, multifils, kev and poly as crosses. Multifils won't last that long because Firewire (and any other triangle shape) will shave your cross with each stroke. Sgut and nylon are little more durable as crosses and great if you need to "soften" the string bed. Kevlar crosses works for folks with fast racquet head movement. I do not recommend Firewire as a cross though, IME, even in a control racquet, it sometimes unpredictable. My fav crosses are TierOne's Ghostwire and RIP, Prince XC (or Experimental) and Gosen OGSM.
The secret is in pulling the crosses. Here is how I string it to get the sharp edges to face up and to minimize twisting in the main hitting area of the string bed: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/tier-one-sports.601641/page-3#post-11793636 Once you have strung it this way and feel a bed of razors you will not be able to wait to get out and hit with it. And no, ball impact won't cause the string to rotate. A hypotenuse will always rest on the cross string after impact.
D
Deleted member 369227
Guest
An old topic, I have already discussed it with another forum member many years ago. I am really too old to waste my time on trivial topics for the sake of proving that I am right, etc.
It is 21st century now, so objective truth is a relative category - advertising information on the website outweights photo evidence taken under microscope
In other words, if it will make you appreciate and enjoy the string more, then by all means continue believing that Tour Bite is square shaped.
LocNetMonster
Professional
When it comes to gripping the ball, I think triangle, cube then rough - in this order - judging by the ball fuzz left in the string bed during a hitting session, are the most effective shapes. While I don't think these shape provide much in the way of grip, it does stands to reason that hex and octagonal strings would be more beneficial for lowering friction between two strings with less surface area contact for enhanced snapback.
LocNetMonster
Professional
Oh, heck no!
I describe the process here: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/tier-one-sports.601641/page-3#post-11793636 String mains first and pull tension on the current cross string after pushing it against the previous tensioned string.
I'm hoping it was too much coffee
D
Deleted member 369227
Guest
OK, instead of drawing conclusions based on a statement like "they look almost the same cross section", let's conduct a more objective experiment...
For this experiment we will need:
1) The string itself, in two different gauges (17 and 18)
2) One sharp Swiss Army Knife, which we will use to slice several cross-section "chips" out of each string
3) Finally, we need a smartphone with a good camera (e.g. Google Pixel 2 XL), a pair of eyes and basic counting skills to determine the number of edges/corners:
Regarding the outcome of this experiment - please draw your own conclusions
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
None.
Spin comes from racket speed, not strings
Spin comes from racket speed, not strings
true, but certain strings can help the player to generate more spin.
Sort of. Changes in spin come from the ball colliding with something. The ball bouncing on the court will generate spin, and the ball bouncing off a perfectly still racquet will also generate spin. In fact, different strings in that immobile racquet will produce varying levels of spin with all other factors held constant.
So technique and racket speed are extremely important, but they are clearly not the only factors.
