What is the criteria for a "cakewalk" draw?

[abmk]

1. LOL I didn't lie about anything pal, I can dig my post up for you if you want, I asked you to show me where you got the FE stats from or if you pulled them from your arse. That's not an accusation so again learn how to read. I never asked HOW you did it I just wanted to see where you got them from. And at 2-3AM I couldn't be stuffed that's actually normal.

2. I'm not teaching a maths class this is a public forum, I didn't have to be clear because it was clearly obvious who's UE count needed to be used, FE cannot only be calculated with one player's W AND UEs you obviously need the opponents UE's so you can subtract from total points. And if it pisses you off that I didn't specify who's UE's were required in my formula then good :mrgreen: I don't give a shi.t I know I had it right and so do you, but you can't stand it because you thought I didn't know and I proved that I did, so suck it up tosser.

your purpose was to "insult". You could've just asked where I got it from, but no without even bothering to check, you asked me if I made it up ? LOL !!!!!

1. He's normally served against Rafa? Really, you think? Nah can't be, I'm pretty sure Rafa is the only one who serves every time they play.

2. Because he went for more on his first serves when he was under pressure and couldn't nail them. His ground play was helped by Rafa not being at his best due to the fatigue of the semi final. BTW I'm talking mental fatigue here, Rafa is the toughest mentally but even he found it hard to keep up such a high level over two gruelling matches. He made more UE's against Fed than Verdasco despite Verdy taking him 5hours and 14 mins.

1. I missed the word well there ...

2. the first sentence is not true. His serving rhythm was off, that's it. He didn't go for more. In fact, his first serve speed was quite a bit lesser than normal

nadal played more aggressively vs fed than he did vs verdasco. Also fed is the better defender .

nadal was playing very well off the ground. If fed was that nervous, he'd have been shaky on his groundstrokes, regardless , there are quite a few matches where opponents have played MUCH worse than rafa did off the ground in AO 2009, and where fed has committed UEs galore off the ground

You are not only putting yourself into a corner with these crappy statements, but also knocking yourself out ! LOL !

Oh stop you're offending me so much its hurting my feelings. I'm still laughing at all your posts

LOL, can't even find a good retort. Try again ! maybe you'll succeed in another 1000 attempts !

 

[abmk]

WTF are you talking about Madrid for? Mandy brought that up not me, besides Rafa won more points and won so what's the point anyway?

madrid 2010 was in the post of mine that you replied to. So I described what happened there .

Tell me which BIG match Rafa has lost in which he won more points? You'd be VERY hard pressed to find any. He's lost 3 five setters in his career IIRC they were Hewitt AO05, Fed Miami 05 and Fed 07 Wim. Doubt he won more points in those matches. You don't have a clue which matches Rafa had more points but lost, yet I'm the clueless one. Face it if you knew, you would've mentioned it -> Back to wikipedia for you!

LOL. Firstly Wikipedia does not have stats on individual matches.

Secondly, I can think of three matches from 2010 itself , on top of my head: vs davy doha 2010 ( bagel in first set), ljubicic IW 2010 ( turnaround after a set and half )and GGL bangkok 2010 ( perhaps the worst he's done in terms of converting BPs)

others would be giles simon in madrid 2008 (he saved many BPs), delpo miami 2009 ( delpo was down by two breaks in the final set )

What makes you think it is necessary that I mention the matches in that post itself ? I just wanted to see how much of a deeper hole you can dig for yourself with your statements. :lol:

If you mean only slams by saying BIG matches, then no. He usually gets knocked out more easily than federer !

But he has lost big matches where the opponent outplayed him on big points - wim 2007 and AO 2010 QF.

Again, like I said, rafa is the mentally tougher player, but fed is no slouch in that dept either

 

[abmk]

Oh your hitting a nerve in me, ouch that hurts me so much. LOL I don't give a shi.t what you think about me because I don't think highly of a stupid **** that spends his life defending his boyfriend all day long in nearly every single Fed vs anyone thread anyway. I've only been arguing with you because you actually make me LMFAO with all the crap you post, you're actually a little entertaining because you were able to turn a post of mine that listed all of Fed's weak draws into a full blown out argument and all I have to do is respond to you and you're off your nut talking crap again and again making me laugh. Keep it up please.

LOL, there are quite a few places where I've defended/praised rafa as well. ( and other players, yes,even against federer ).

Its just that I find it fun mocking when muppets like you make statements like

1. fed had an easy draw in AO 2004

2.nadal attacked fed's serve so much that it made him nervous ONLY on his serve causing him to lose his rhythm on serve, but his ground game magically stayed intact :roll:

3. nadal attacks fed's 2nd serve the most of all the players ! LOL, what a joke !!!!

 

[Sharpshooter]

LOL. Firstly Wikipedia does not have stats on individual matches.

Secondly, I can think of three matches from 2010 itself , on top of my head: vs davy doha 2010 ( bagel in first set), ljubicic IW 2010 ( turnaround after a set and half )and GGL bangkok 2010 ( perhaps the worst he's done in terms of converting BPs)

others would be giles simon in madrid 2008 (he saved many BPs), delpo miami 2009 ( delpo was down by two breaks in the final set )

What makes you think it is necessary that I mention the matches in that post itself ? I just wanted to see how much of a deeper hole you can dig for yourself with your statements. :lol:

If you mean only slams by saying BIG matches, then no. He usually gets knocked out more easily than federer !

But he has lost big matches where the opponent outplayed him on big points - wim 2007 and AO 2010 QF.

Again, like I said, rafa is the mentally tougher player, but fed is no slouch in that dept either

ALL those matches you listed were not big matches, Doha and Bangkok? WTF man who cares about those tourny's? What a load of crap but then again, I shouldn't have expected anything better.

regarding losing big matches on bog points well duh of course, but that's not what we're talking about here, so don't go twisting it to try and favor Fed in any way.

And as for Rafa getting knocked out easier, well let's just say this:

Rafa 07AO age 20 he lost quite convincingly to Gonzo. AO08 it was to Tsonga at age 21. Delpo at USO09 age 23. No point bringing up GS matches he lost when he was a teen.

Now Fed at age 21 lost in the FIRST round at the FO (Rafa won the title at that age), a fate that hasn't happened to Rafa at any GS in his entire career. He also lost in the first round at the 2002 Wim championships age 20, (Rafa almost won the title at that age). And then there's also the 2008 FO, Worse than any Nadal loss...oh and that was at age 26 BTW. So Rafa usually getting knocked out easier is another display of your stupid uninformed biased opinion.

 

[Sharpshooter]

you said it was a fight/challenge only if it went to five sets, it wasn't about greatness here

Well that's right, to me it cannot be considered a challenge if it doesn't go the distance. Doesn't mean that EVERY SINGLE 5 setter that has ever occurred was a real challenge.

yes, he won, because he was mentally tougher and fed served cr*p, and not because he was able to break down fed's BH

WTF? You make it sound like Fed DF'd every single serve. Fed won the second set serving like crap (I believe statistically speaking it was the lowest % of any set). Why couldn't he win all the other sets when he served better in those if the serve was the reason he lost? Plus Rafa breaking down the BH being the reason he won is actually not what I said, I said that was his gameplan and it was, it always is. You claim that Rafa won because of a mental edge, can you show me the stat for points won by mental edge (ME)?

his serve fell apart, yet, his groundstrokes were very good . They didn't fall apart, did they ? If he was that nervous, would've shown up in his ground strokes to some extent, right ? Read my next post as well for more regarding this.

BS. The point I made was he got nervous on HIS serving, on the ground he wasn't nervous because Rafa wasn't playing his best, but on the return Rafa was still placing the ball in difficult positions and belting returns on occasion as well. That's why his ground game didn't break down but his serve did. So no it's not magic and it's not rocket science either, but maybe for you it is.

Also, wouldn't he have been more nervous right after her went down 2 sets to love vs nadal at wim 08 than right at the start of the match in AO 2009 ? Yet , he served excellent in wim 08 final even after going down 2 sets to love.

Yeah he did get nervous when he went down 2 sets to love. He was behind 0-40 in one service game in mid stages of set 3 IIRC. You make a stupid point there because Fed had a lucky rain delay which gave him time to recover and improve his focus on the match. That's why Rafa didn't break him as often as in the earlier stages.

djoker played better in USO 2009 SF as he did in ANY match in USO 2010 .

Wait a minute, 31W to 33UE -2 ratio PLUS only 1/3 BP converted and Fed served pretty average in that match too IIRC, yet that's a better performance than 45W to 47UE (the same -2 ratio BUT over a longer period) PLUS 3/4 BP converted when Rafa served quite well. Just another biased bullshi.t opinion with nothing to back it up.

he only had a minor dip in play vs wheaton in 3R, but that's it.

And Verdy plus went out in straights.

its not, just stating what happened.

And using that as an excuse...

his BH was better in wim 06, he hit winner after winner and didn't make many UEs of that wing either

In one match and pretty much the third set helped his BH stats a lot. What about the whole tournament? Rafa's BH was better in Wim08 it had even more bite to it esp CC on the run from 5m behind the baseline. Even the commentator (Andrew Castle) recognized that Rafa had been working on that shot (also mentioned it was worked on to beat Fed) when late in the fifth set he hit an amazing CC BH winner. But then again he is also clueless and you know everything.

nadal had more opportunity to recover in wim 08 than in wim 07.

What are you trying to say here? That Rafa was more mentally tougher in 07 than 08? He had more time to recover because he was playing better from the get go and was not as nervous as in 07. Get it through your head peanut. Besides as usual you're wrong anyway, the fifth set was where Rafa lost it in 07, in 08 his fifth set was better despite losing set 3 and 4 in TBs and Fed having all the momentum.

well, he'd have been less dominant, no doubt, but fed would still be #1, as he's better on anything except clay

Now how can you be so sure that he'd still be number 1? Take off a couple Wim titles and you have Rafa winning 2 GS's (FO and WIM) a year. If that happened in 2005 Fed would not be number 1 and if it happened in any of the other three years it would've still been a close race. Plus Rafa won their ONLY HC GS meeting, if Fed's that much better why didn't he beat him when Rafa wasn't playing very well? So again here's another one of your BS biased opinions.

one break up in windy conditions , yeah very commanding ..I'm not expecting verdy to fight like hewitt , hell no. should've atleast tried to hold his own and not make UEs (incl DFs) galore !

The windy conditions is what makes it more impressive idiot. Besides of course he was going to DF more in those conditions, he's very shaky off that second serve in the best of conditions. He was almost at the stage to serve for the first set IIRC but Rafa broke to make it 4 all.

I put forward a conditional statement , saying that only if he was playing well. I also said his BH is his better wing overall. But you can't read , can you ? :lol:

Lol at you saying I can't read hypocrite. Novak's BH is always the more damaging shot against Rafa.

yes, fed in AO 2007 SF was MILES ahead of rafa in USO 2010 QF

and you are clueless about fed-gonzo match

I'lll reply to the rest of the posts later

1. Another biased opinion with nothing to back it up. You think your boyfriend was MILES ahead but you fail to recognize that he was only allowed to play that well through Roddick's shi.thouse play. He broke Roddick 7 TIMES, that's a bad serving night for ARod I don't care who he plays. And now wait for this, you're gonna love it! Fed's first serve % was... 51% (LOL no wonder Roddick was able to get at least ONE break). WOW He was MILES ahead of Rafa. Considering that Fed nearly always beats Roddick, why can't you just admit that Roddick didn't turn up that night and Fed did and that was the recipe for the disaster for ARod? Oh that's right you're biased again and Rafa's sharp form is crap compared to Fed's sharp form even though the GS h2h is 6-2 in Rafa's favor...

2. I'm clueless but you're the one saying Gonzo played fairly well

 

[Sharpshooter]

your purpose was to "insult". You could've just asked where I got it from, but no without even bothering to check, you asked me if I made it up ? LOL !!!!!

Nah, I wanted to annoy you as well and I succeeded :lol:

1. I missed the word well there ...

I know, just playin' wit' ya.

2. the first sentence is not true. His serving rhythm was off, that's it. He didn't go for more. In fact, his first serve speed was quite a bit lesser than normal

The speed isn't the only factor when it comes to going for first serves, he tried to place the ball too well.

nadal played more aggressively vs fed than he did vs verdasco. Also fed is the better defender .

Yeah and Fed's a better ball striker too but his W/UE ratio was a lot lower than Verdy's despite the Verdy match going another 50mins or so (+19 to +7 in case you were wondering). Plus Rafa was fresh against Verdy and defended better so it would've been harder for Verdy to hit winners than Fed. Besides I thought you said Rafa wasn't aggressive, but now he was to suit your crappy comments. Or maybe you're trying to say he was aggressive, just not when returning where aggression is most required

nadal was playing very well off the ground. If fed was that nervous, he'd have been shaky on his groundstrokes, regardless , there are quite a few matches where opponents have played MUCH worse than rafa did off the ground in AO 2009, and where fed has committed UEs galore off the ground

You are not only putting yourself into a corner with these crappy statements, but also knocking yourself out ! LOL !

Rafa played well but was clearly not at his best, again even the experts on ESPN took note of that AFTER the match was over. Guys like Pat McEnroe etc.

Besides, I've been over the whole reason why Fed's serve broke down but groundy's didn't already. I'm gonna save myself the trouble and tell you to read my other response because it makes more sense than you have this entire time.

BTW I'm not knocking myself out with anything I can do this forever if I have to...

 

[Rippy]

 

[Sharpshooter]

LOL, there are quite a few places where I've defended/praised rafa as well. ( and other players, yes,even against federer ).

Its just that I find it fun mocking when muppets like you make statements like

1. fed had an easy draw in AO 2004

2.nadal attacked fed's serve so much that it made him nervous ONLY on his serve causing him to lose his rhythm on serve, but his ground game magically stayed intact :roll:

3. nadal attacks fed's 2nd serve the most of all the players ! LOL, what a joke !!!!

1. Well nobody really tested him back then did they? OK he finally got the mentality right to beat some of his "tough opponents" like Hewitt who was in the worst form of his career and Nalby who wasn't nearly as tough as Djoko was for Rafa. After that he only had to beat JCF (Who was hot after losing to Chris Guccione ) and beat a bunch of nobody's to reach the semi's in the first place and a completely stuffed Safin.

2. I've already explained this.

3. In terms of placement yes he does, that's why he breaks it more often than anyone else.

But anyway let's have a look at your great logic now:

1. Gonzo played FAIRLY DECENT/WELL throughout the whole match in AO07 final.

In case you don't remember:

LOL, what a load of cr*p ... I saw that match and gonzo played fairly decent tennis throughout

2. Rafa's BIG match losses where he'd won more points were in Bangkok and Doha.
3. Fed magically didn't serve well in AO09 final.
4. AO07 tougher than USO2010.
5. Saying YEC's result between Rafa and Djoko mattered for Novak.
6. Verdasco in USO 2010 was equally as shi.t as Roddick at AO07 and Delpo at AO09 when he at least challenged for one set.
7. Fed was miles ahead in AO07 compared to Rafa USO2010 when he had one of the lowest first serve % of his career and Roddick played shi.t enough to lose his serve 7 times.
8. There is a difference between anger and stupidity and Youzhny was therefore not stupid for splitting his own head open after losing a point.
9. Saying there's more aces at Wimby than USO based on stats rather than understanding that USO has TB for deciding set whereas Wim doesn't.
10. Saying a match is a challenge when it doesn't even go the distance.
11. Comparing shi.t performances of players and saying the draw was tougher because Fed's shi.t opponent was less shi.t than Rafa's, splitting hairs. Berdy v Gonzo and Lopez v Hewitt as the prime examples.
12. Saying Roddick is the second most dangerous guy on grass without looking at who he's actually beaten to get to those Wim finals and the only tough one being Murray who he also lost to when Murray was only a teen.
13. Saying Davydenko in AO06 was tougher opponent than Djoko in USO2010 based off pure bullshi.t.

And that's just off the top of my head LLLLOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PSNELKE]

I´ve read through this thread and saw some nice answers and suggestioons.

But, since this is TTW I´d say the criteria for a cakewalk draw is the name of the player.
I´ve never read about any afflictions to a player having a cakewalk draw not named Nadal or Federer.
*******s claim Nadal to have a CWD and the same from the *******s.

 

[abmk]

ALL those matches you listed were not big matches, Doha and Bangkok? WTF man who cares about those tourny's? What a load of crap but then again, I shouldn't have expected anything better.

I did say they were NOT big matches. I said matches in general . I didn't mention that rafa lost in big matches where he won more points, did I ? Again, your lack of comprehension skills !

regarding losing big matches on bog points well duh of course, but that's not what we're talking about here, so don't go twisting it to try and favor Fed in any way.

yeah, twisting it in fed's favour by saying rafa is the tougher mentally guy

now if you believe fed is mentally weak, all I can say is LOL !

And as for Rafa getting knocked out easier, well let's just say this:

Rafa 07AO age 20 he lost quite convincingly to Gonzo. AO08 it was to Tsonga at age 21. Delpo at USO09 age 23. No point bringing up GS matches he lost when he was a teen.

Now Fed at age 21 lost in the FIRST round at the FO (Rafa won the title at that age), a fate that hasn't happened to Rafa at any GS in his entire career. He also lost in the first round at the 2002 Wim championships age 20, (Rafa almost won the title at that age). And then there's also the 2008 FO, Worse than any Nadal loss...oh and that was at age 26 BTW. So Rafa usually getting knocked out easier is another display of your stupid uninformed biased opinion.

lol, age by age comparision. Is that fair considering both hit their primes at different ages ? But of course as long as it favours rafa its fine, right ? :roll:

the one and only time fed lost pretty badly in a GS after he won his first slam was FO 2008, THREE times for rafa from 2007 ...

from 2004 onwards, fed has lost thrice in straights, guga FO 2004,djoker AO 2008, rafa FO 2008 ...only one was a beatdown

rafa from 2007 onwards itself has lost thrice in straights , all beatdowns plus one retirement in 3rd set ( murray AO 2010 )

You fail again, miserably !

 

[abmk]

Well that's right, to me it cannot be considered a challenge if it doesn't go the distance. Doesn't mean that EVERY SINGLE 5 setter that has ever occurred was a real challenge.

LOL, whatever, twisting it suit your convenience, going by so called definition, there are VERY few challenges to top players, LOL !

WTF? You make it sound like Fed DF'd every single serve. Fed won the second set serving like crap (I believe statistically speaking it was the lowest % of any set). Why couldn't he win all the other sets when he served better in those if the serve was the reason he lost? Plus Rafa breaking down the BH being the reason he won is actually not what I said, I said that was his gameplan and it was, it always is. You claim that Rafa won because of a mental edge, can you show me the stat for points won by mental edge (ME)?

serve wasn't the only reason he lost, but it along with the meltdown in the final set and rafa playing very well were the major reasons he lost

BS. The point I made was he got nervous on HIS serving, on the ground he wasn't nervous because Rafa wasn't playing his best, but on the return Rafa was still placing the ball in difficult positions and belting returns on occasion as well. That's why his ground game didn't break down but his serve did. So no it's not magic and it's not rocket science either, but maybe for you it is.

LOL, rafa was playing near his very best off the ground as well

Yeah he did get nervous when he went down 2 sets to love. He was behind 0-40 in one service game in mid stages of set 3 IIRC. You make a stupid point there because Fed had a lucky rain delay which gave him time to recover and improve his focus on the match. That's why Rafa didn't break him as often as in the earlier stages.

so now he recovered and served well afterwords only because of the rain delay ? :lol:

Wait a minute, 31W to 33UE -2 ratio PLUS only 1/3 BP converted and Fed served pretty average in that match too IIRC, yet that's a better performance than 45W to 47UE (the same -2 ratio BUT over a longer period) PLUS 3/4 BP converted when Rafa served quite well. Just another biased bullshi.t opinion with nothing to back it up.

I based my opinion on watching those matches. fed didn't serve that well in that match, agreed, but he did come up with good serves when he needed them the most .

As far as reasoning goes, I doubt you'd understand, even if you did you would twist it some way or the other .. I might provide it later !

And Verdy plus went out in straights.

he lost only a set each in both , not in any danger of losing in either of them unlike in the troicki match. He lost in straights because he faced federer in brilliant form .

federer wasn't playing that well in sets 1 and 3 in the USO 2010 SF , yet took them from djoker in USO 2010. fed did somewhat similar in 2009 SF, only he was better and did it for all 3 sets .

And using that as an excuse...

its not, try again

In one match and pretty much the third set helped his BH stats a lot. What about the whole tournament? Rafa's BH was better in Wim08 it had even more bite to it esp CC on the run from 5m behind the baseline. Even the commentator (Andrew Castle) recognized that Rafa had been working on that shot (also mentioned it was worked on to beat Fed) when late in the fifth set he hit an amazing CC BH winner. But then again he is also clueless and you know everything.

I was speaking about the three finals in which they faced off. That is what is what is relevant here . His BH was the best in 06 wim out of those three finals.

wim 07 vs wim 08, IMO rafa was more aggressive off the ground and slightly better in 07 ( not much of a difference in the BH in those matches ). he was better on the serve in wim 08.

What are you trying to say here? That Rafa was more mentally tougher in 07 than 08? He had more time to recover because he was playing better from the get go and was not as nervous as in 07. Get it through your head peanut. Besides as usual you're wrong anyway, the fifth set was where Rafa lost it in 07, in 08 his fifth set was better despite losing set 3 and 4 in TBs and Fed having all the momentum.

I'm saying he stumbled in both, not that much of a difference mentally .

Now how can you be so sure that he'd still be number 1? Take off a couple Wim titles and you have Rafa winning 2 GS's (FO and WIM) a year. If that happened in 2005 Fed would not be number 1 and if it happened in any of the other three years it would've still been a close race. Plus Rafa won their ONLY HC GS meeting, if Fed's that much better why didn't he beat him when Rafa wasn't playing very well? So again here's another one of your BS biased opinions.

what a freaking joke. rafa was playing VERY well in AO 2009 F. fed didn't beat him because he served like cr*p and lost it mentally towards the end. If he's served better, it would probably have been a different story

The windy conditions is what makes it more impressive idiot. Besides of course he was going to DF more in those conditions, he's very shaky off that second serve in the best of conditions. He was almost at the stage to serve for the first set IIRC but Rafa broke to make it 4 all.

no, it doesn't you moron, breaks of serve are MORE common in windy conditions

Lol at you saying I can't read hypocrite. Novak's BH is always the more damaging shot against Rafa.

umm, no

1. Another biased opinion with nothing to back it up. You think your boyfriend was MILES ahead but you fail to recognize that he was only allowed to play that well through Roddick's shi.thouse play. He broke Roddick 7 TIMES, that's a bad serving night for ARod I don't care who he plays. And now wait for this, you're gonna love it! Fed's first serve % was... 51% (LOL no wonder Roddick was able to get at least ONE break). WOW He was MILES ahead of Rafa. Considering that Fed nearly always beats Roddick, why can't you just admit that Roddick didn't turn up that night and Fed did and that was the recipe for the disaster for ARod? Oh that's right you're biased again and Rafa's sharp form is crap compared to Fed's sharp form even though the GS h2h is 6-2 in Rafa's favor...

2. I'm clueless but you're the one saying Gonzo played fairly well

what the H2H have to do with their forms in those matches. LOL, you are an absolute idiot !

a-rod played average, I've said that before, but again you can't read ... but clearly better than verdasco who played cr*p.

 

[abmk]

Nah, I wanted to annoy you as well and I succeeded :lol:

LOL, no you moron, you just exposed your ignorance again !

The speed isn't the only factor when it comes to going for first serves, he tried to place the ball too well.

yes, pace isn't the only factor, but he didn't even shift to aiming for the corners too much ...

Yeah and Fed's a better ball striker too but his W/UE ratio was a lot lower than Verdy's despite the Verdy match going another 50mins or so (+19 to +7 in case you were wondering). Plus Rafa was fresh against Verdy and defended better so it would've been harder for Verdy to hit winners than Fed. Besides I thought you said Rafa wasn't aggressive, but now he was to suit your crappy comments. Or maybe you're trying to say he was aggressive, just not when returning where aggression is most required

WTF ? Does saying he played more aggressive in the fed match than in the verdasco match have anything to do with saying that he doesn't return fed's serve aggressively as say a nalbandian/safin/davydenko ? clueless idiot !

2. @ bold part: who says aggression is most required while returning ? he returned a few serves aggressively, but nothing that special to put huge pressure on the server .

3. at fed vs verdasco, dasco served clearly better , that for most part explains the difference in W/UE ratio. Not much of a difference off the ground at all ...

Rafa played well but was clearly not at his best, again even the experts on ESPN took note of that AFTER the match was over. Guys like Pat McEnroe etc.

Besides, I've been over the whole reason why Fed's serve broke down but groundy's didn't already. I'm gonna save myself the trouble and tell you to read my other response because it makes more sense than you have this entire time.

BTW I'm not knocking myself out with anything I can do this forever if I have to...

At bold part, LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL , nothing you've said in that regard makes much sense , its all pure BS !

 

[abmk]

1. Well nobody really tested him back then did they? OK he finally got the mentality right to beat some of his "tough opponents" like Hewitt who was in the worst form of his career and Nalby who wasn't nearly as tough as Djoko was for Rafa. After that he only had to beat JCF (Who was hot after losing to Chris Guccione ) and beat a bunch of nobody's to reach the semi's in the first place and a completely stuffed Safin.

he was in very good form , that's why . Unless someone played superlative like safin in AO 2005, they were not going to test him , by our own definition of "test"

2. I've already explained this.

All you've done is put in some words together that when strung together are insane, but look like logic to you :lol:

3. In terms of placement yes he does, that's why he breaks it more often than anyone else.

no, its more because he's the best from the ground and highly consistent. He has a good return, but a great return game.

But anyway let's have a look at your great logic now:
1. Gonzo played FAIRLY DECENT/WELL throughout the whole match in AO07 final.

that's not logic, that's an observation/opinion. again, clueless

2. Rafa's BIG match losses where he'd won more points were in Bangkok and Doha.

Show me where I mentioned big matches in front of those matches in that post. can't read !

3. Fed magically didn't serve well in AO09 final.

yes, fed was frightened by rafa's so called aggressive returning , causing him to be only nervous on his serve, but not on his groundstrokes.

This when his groundstrokes have crumbled, even on big occasions at times, against players playing FAR worse off the ground, under less pressure

4. AO07 tougher than USO2010.

show me where I said that.

5. Saying YEC's result between Rafa and Djoko mattered for Novak.

show me where I said it did.

6. Verdasco in USO 2010 was equally as shi.t as Roddick at AO07 and Delpo at AO09 when he at least challenged for one set.

no, I said verdy was ****tier in USO 2010 QF than a-rod and about similar level as delpo in AO 2009 ( make it slightly better if that makes you happy, LOL ). I brought that up just to show you can't use seedings as an excuse for verdy's crappy play in USO 2010 , just like for delpo in AO 2009

7. Fed was miles ahead in AO07 compared to Rafa USO2010 when he had one of the lowest first serve % of his career and Roddick played shi.t enough to lose his serve 7 times.

fed's first serve % didn't matter that much at all because he was just way too good off the ground

8. There is a difference between anger and stupidity and Youzhny was therefore not stupid for splitting his own head open after losing a point.

LOL, you already pushed yourself into a corner and knocked yourself on this, didn't you ? Try remembering !

9. Saying there's more aces at Wimby than USO based on stats rather than understanding that USO has TB for deciding set whereas Wim doesn't.

go , do the match of aces/point for yourself, clueless fella. I've done it, its more at wimby than @ the USO consistently in the recent years

10. Saying a match is a challenge when it doesn't even go the distance.

again, clueless, a player can play very well and still lose in straights, that is putting up a fight. see djoker USO 2009 SF or roddick USO 2007 QF or even rafa AO 2010 ( yes, I know he retired in the 3rd ). Its just that the other player is just better at that time.

it can go to 5 even when the player challenging the eventual winner is not playing as well as say the players in the above instances ( take haas AO 2006, petz wimby 2010, haase wimby 2010, falla wimby 2010 , haas FO 2009 etc etc ).

111. Comparing shi.t performances of players and saying the draw was tougher because Fed's shi.t opponent was less shi.t than Rafa's, splitting hairs. Berdy v Gonzo and Lopez v Hewitt as the prime examples.

lopez vs hewitt , LOL, LMAO, LOL. Dude, anyone sane will laugh at that. lopez wasn't even playing anywhere near decent tennis .

12. Saying Roddick is the second most dangerous guy on grass without looking at who he's actually beaten to get to those Wim finals and the only tough one being Murray who he also lost to when Murray was only a teen.

roddick was in a slump at that time in 2006, murray wasn't in that great form himself , he lost in the next round itself IIRC.

it wasn't just based on his wimby record that I said roddick was the 2nd most dangerous guy, it was also based on how well he was playing from 4R onwards in wimby 2009

13. Saying Davydenko in AO06 was tougher opponent than Djoko in USO2010 based off pure bullshi.t.

based on seeing the matches.

 

[rovex]

Nice to see two buddies sharpshooter and abmk having a civilized discussion with no insults whatsoever.

 

[abmk]

Let's look at some of the most insane/clueless posts of TTW courtesy "sharpshooter"

1. rafa returns fed's serve most aggressively of all players. yes, even more than nalby, safin,davydenko,djokovic et al. Get a clue, dude, make a poll asking this, even most of the nadal fans will laugh at this

2. rafa scared fed into serving badly at AO 2009 - this though

(i) he hasn't served that badly even when under much more pressure in wim 08 after losing first 2 sets,

(ii) his ground strokes remained magically intact against a rafa who played very well , when he's been more error-prone under less pressure in other matches with opponents playing far worse off the ground than what rafa did in AO 2009 final

3. lopez, not even ranked inside top 10 once in his career, not playing well is on the same level as far as being a threat is concerned at a GS to rafa when compared a hewitt who was 7-2 vs fed before AO 2004, having won their last 5-setter and playing better

Stay tuned for more. I know people reading this would be LOL'ing at those jokes and need to take a break from that !

 

[Sharpshooter]

I did say they were NOT big matches. I said matches in general . I didn't mention that rafa lost in big matches where he won more points, did I ? Again, your lack of comprehension skills !

I asked for BIG matches and all you could give me were those.

yeah, twisting it in fed's favour by saying rafa is the tougher mentally guy

now if you believe fed is mentally weak, all I can say is LOL !

First of all, please point out where I said Fed was weak mentally because I can't recall ever saying that. I said he's weak mentally against Nadal but that's all I've said and you make it out like as if I said he was weak mentaly against everyone. Lack of comprehension...Mr. abmk

lol, age by age comparision. Is that fair considering both hit their primes at different ages ? But of course as long as it favours rafa its fine, right ? :roll:

the one and only time fed lost pretty badly in a GS after he won his first slam was FO 2008, THREE times for rafa from 2007 ...

from 2004 onwards, fed has lost thrice in straights, guga FO 2004,djoker AO 2008, rafa FO 2008 ...only one was a beatdown

rafa from 2007 onwards itself has lost thrice in straights , all beatdowns plus one retirement in 3rd set ( murray AO 2010 )

You fail again, miserably !

Rafa hit his prime during the clay season of 08, since then his only beatdown was against Delpo.

Rog got belted at RG08.

So really it's one all since they hit their best form, so you can't say Rafa usually loses easier because that's BS. Rafa wasn't in his prime after he won his first GS and you can't compare a mature aged Roger Federer to a teen-very early 20's Nadal. You have to compare them at the same age to be fair and because that doesn't favor Fed you make it sound like a rediculous comparison to make when in reality (outside your lovefest for your boyfriend) it is the fairest comparison to make. What happens if Rafa has seasons winning 3+ slams both this year and next year? Everyone will say his best years were from 2010-2012. Point is we don't even know if Rafa has reached his full potential yet or whether he's on the brink of it so quit whinging about the age comparison, it's not my fault Fed wasn't as good as Rafa when he was a teen or in his very early 20's and because that desn't look good for Fed, too bad.

So you fail because you can't stand that at the same ages Rafa has outperformed Fed in nearly every single year.

 

[Commando Tennis Shorts]

The funny thing is, this argument would not be going on outside of the anonymity of an online message board. When people disagree with each other while talking in real life, they usually don't just toss out "moron" and "clueless" to a complete stranger. Gotta love the internets.

 

[Sharpshooter]

LOL, whatever, twisting it suit your convenience, going by so called definition, there are VERY few challenges to top players, LOL !

Yes there are very few and Delpo at USO09 was one of them.

serve wasn't the only reason he lost, but it along with the meltdown in the final set and rafa playing very well were the major reasons he lost

So how did Rafa get to the final set when Rog was playing better off the ground and serving BETTER in sets 1 & 3 than set 2 which he won? Show me the formula for points won by Mental Edge (ME), Rafa must've won a lot of those and I must admit I don't know that one, but I'm sure you do genius...

LOL, rafa was playing near his very best off the ground as well

You can tell me I'm wrong for as long as you can stand it but do go back to 2009 just after the match and tell the expert commentators on ESPN that they're all wrong. It was clear that although Rafa did play well undeniably, he was not at his very best because he was able to defend better in the Verdasco match because he wasn't as fatigued.

so now he recovered and served well afterwords only because of the rain delay ? :lol:

Nah, it was just a coincidence that Fed won two sets AFTER the rain delay.

It CLEARLY disrupted Rafa's momentum and gave Fed a chance to settle down and play better, esp on his service games.

I based my opinion on watching those matches. fed didn't serve that well in that match, agreed, but he did come up with good serves when he needed them the most .

So, he didn't serve well (we've agreed on something apart from 03Wim being less tough than USO2010), and Djoker was playing really really well (probably his best tourny ever IYO). OK so tell me if Djoker was playing so well AND he attacks Fed's serve MUCH more than Rafa, then WHY wasn't he able to break Fed's serve more than a grand total of ONCE??? FUrther more, WHY was he only able to earn 3 BP's??? The only possible explanation is that Superman must've shown up again or of course, you're full of shi.t. hmmm, I'll stick with the latter, it's been proven!

As far as reasoning goes, I doubt you'd understand, even if you did you would twist it some way or the other .. I might provide it later !

Oh I can't wait I'm sure you've got a gem in store for me.

he lost only a set each in both , not in any danger of losing in either of them unlike in the troicki match. He lost in straights because he faced federer in brilliant form .

federer wasn't playing that well in sets 1 and 3 in the USO 2010 SF , yet took them from djoker in USO 2010. fed did somewhat similar in 2009 SF, only he was better and did it for all 3 sets .

Djoker's nerves kind of got to him in those sets, he finally held his nerve well in the last set. If you actually watched the match you would know that Novak was the better player in each set, but he let his nerves disrupt him in the latter stages of set 1 and 3. All Fed had to do was hold his serve to keep close to Novak and then he would hand it over to Fed. Fed had another bad serve day overall I do remember that BTW, but he hung tough in those sets until Djoker gave him the chance.

As for the Troicki match, that was first round, after that he played brilliantly (for him anyway) and was able to brush aside most opponents esp Monfils after that first set. So overall he was consistently playing very well in USO2010 after round 1, as for USO09 he had his battles here and there. So therefore based on that, I will say that USO2010 was one of the best tourny's he's ever played and I rate it higher than USO09.

its not, try again

What does that mean try again? Try what again? You made an excuse for your boyfriend so try to man up an admit it.

I was speaking about the three finals in which they faced off. That is what is what is relevant here . His BH was the best in 06 wim out of those three finals.

wim 07 vs wim 08, IMO rafa was more aggressive off the ground and slightly better in 07 ( not much of a difference in the BH in those matches ). he was better on the serve in wim 08.

No I said Wim08 Rafa had a more developed BH and he did, you don't rate a guys BH off one purple patch. So that one match is not relevant, he had a better technique and was therefore more dangerous when he pulled it off, so much so that the EXPERT commentators also took note of it.

I'm saying he stumbled in both, not that much of a difference mentally .

Of course he stumbled in both, thank you captain obvious. He held it together in 08 whereas in 07 he didn't. EOS!

what a freaking joke. rafa was playing VERY well in AO 2009 F. fed didn't beat him because he served like cr*p and lost it mentally towards the end. If he's served better, it would probably have been a different story

No he played good enough to win, mentally that was Rafa at his best, but he doesn't normally lose a lot of rally's against Fed. He fought through that third set when he could've easily lost hit he was down a lot of BP's but held it together mentally and played VERY aggressive on those points to save his serve. Again you need to take a trip back to 2009 right after the final and tell all those expert commentators who know much more about the game and players than you do that they're wrong. BTW Good to see you ignore the entire first half of that response, when you don't have an answer best thing is to shut up shop, you did that brilliantly here, if only you could follow up your own good work.

no, it doesn't you moron, breaks of serve are MORE common in windy conditions

In case it was too hard for you to understand, I said that the windy conditions is what made Verdy's lead even more impressive. The wind effects Verdy's serve more than Rafa's idiot and the fact that he was able to hold up well and start better than Rafa is quite impressive. I also said the wind is why he DF'd a lot, so how you can somehow convert that into me saying the wind helped his serve is beyond me.

umm, no

umm, no? Are you sure? Really really sure???

what the H2H have to do with their forms in those matches. LOL, you are an absolute idiot !

a-rod played average, I've said that before, but again you can't read ... but clearly better than verdasco who played cr*p.

1) I just wanted to throw that in there, I like how you call me an absolute idiot for it. Can't stand that 6-2 lead can you :mrgreen:

2) YOu're categorically wrong. I think I'll leave it at that, you won't admit you're wrong so you keep embarrassing yourself by saying that ROddick played better when he obviously didn't.

 

[Sharpshooter]

LOL, no you moron, you just exposed your ignorance again !

Ouch that hurts stop it! I apologize if I piched a nerve or tugged at your heart strings :twisted:

yes, pace isn't the only factor, but he didn't even shift to aiming for the corners too much ...

No all his serves went in that's why he had a good serving night.

WTF ? Does saying he played more aggressive in the fed match than in the verdasco match have anything to do with saying that he doesn't return fed's serve aggressively as say a nalbandian/safin/davydenko ? clueless idiot !

2. @ bold part: who says aggression is most required while returning ? he returned a few serves aggressively, but nothing that special to put huge pressure on the server .

3. at fed vs verdasco, dasco served clearly better , that for most part explains the difference in W/UE ratio. Not much of a difference off the ground at all ...

1. He places the ball better than those three on the return, so he does return aggresively in terms of placement.

2. My opinion. Good aggressive return allows you to control the point on your opponents serve putting you in the best position to break. Rafa doesn't hit flat shots that often so an aggressively heavy topspin shot to Fed's BH is an aggressive return and he did that often apart from the second set where he got a little conservative.

3. Verdy served better but as for your opinion, I don't value it and I don't agree with it either.

At bold part, LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL , nothing you've said in that regard makes much sense , its all pure BS !

No mate, your full of pure BS!!!!!!

 

[cknobman]

damnit I want to participate in this thread but abmk and sharpshooter have hijacked it with umpteen thousand rant posts!

 

[meg0529]

Wow abmk and sharpshooter still going strong! how many pages has it been now?

 

[rovex]

The funny thing is, this argument would not be going on outside of the anonymity of an online message board. When people disagree with each other while talking in real life, they usually don't just toss out "moron" and "clueless" to a complete stranger. Gotta love the internets.

It's obvious though, its embarrassing calling people names in reality while on the Internet your discrete.

 

[Sharpshooter]

he was in very good form , that's why . Unless someone played superlative like safin in AO 2005, they were not going to test him , by our own definition of "test"

Maybe a FRESH Safin would've. He was ranked 86 and unseeded, image if he hit a confident Safin a little earlier...

All you've done is put in some words together that when strung together are insane, but look like logic to you :lol:

No that's what you've been doing the whole entire time.

no, its more because he's the best from the ground and highly consistent. He has a good return, but a great return game.

The return sets up the point and allows him to take control better than anyone else. He has a great return esp early on in that final to send the message. Brilliant mind games from Rafa!

that's not logic, that's an observation/opinion. again, clueless


Show me where I mentioned big matches in front of those matches in that post. can't read !



yes, fed was frightened by rafa's so called aggressive returning , causing him to be only nervous on his serve, but not on his groundstrokes.

This when his groundstrokes have crumbled, even on big occasions at times, against players playing FAR worse off the ground, under less pressure



show me where I said that.



show me where I said it did.



no, I said verdy was ****tier in USO 2010 QF than a-rod and about similar level as delpo in AO 2009 ( make it slightly better if that makes you happy, LOL ). I brought that up just to show you can't use seedings as an excuse for verdy's crappy play in USO 2010 , just like for delpo in AO 2009



fed's first serve % didn't matter that much at all because he was just way too good off the ground



LOL, you already pushed yourself into a corner and knocked yourself on this, didn't you ? Try remembering !



go , do the match of aces/point for yourself, clueless fella. I've done it, its more at wimby than @ the USO consistently in the recent years



again, clueless, a player can play very well and still lose in straights, that is putting up a fight. see djoker USO 2009 SF or roddick USO 2007 QF or even rafa AO 2010 ( yes, I know he retired in the 3rd ). Its just that the other player is just better at that time.

it can go to 5 even when the player challenging the eventual winner is not playing as well as say the players in the above instances ( take haas AO 2006, petz wimby 2010, haase wimby 2010, falla wimby 2010 , haas FO 2009 etc etc ).



lopez vs hewitt , LOL, LMAO, LOL. Dude, anyone sane will laugh at that. lopez wasn't even playing anywhere near decent tennis .



roddick was in a slump at that time in 2006, murray wasn't in that great form himself , he lost in the next round itself IIRC.

it wasn't just based on his wimby record that I said roddick was the 2nd most dangerous guy, it was also based on how well he was playing from 4R onwards in wimby 2009



based on seeing the matches.

LLLLOOOLLLL!!!!! I knew each and every one of those would pi.ss you off and you responded to each and every one of them like a moron. Whatever you said to each one of them, you're wrong I've already proved that.

 

[Sharpshooter]

1. rafa returns fed's serve most aggressively of all players. yes, even more than nalby, safin,davydenko,djokovic et al. Get a clue, dude, make a poll asking this, even most of the nadal fans will laugh at this

Safin doesn't play anymore. who's etc? And why couldn't attacking Djoker break Fed more than once in the 09USO semi? and why did he only earn 3 BP chances?

2. rafa scared fed into serving badly at AO 2009 - this though

(i) he hasn't served that badly even when under much more pressure in wim 08 after losing first 2 sets,

Rain delay.

(ii) his ground strokes remained magically intact against a rafa who played very well , when he's been more error-prone under less pressure in other matches with opponents playing far worse off the ground than what rafa did in AO 2009 final

Already explained this.

3. lopez, not even ranked inside top 10 once in his career, not playing well is on the same level as far as being a threat is concerned at a GS to rafa when compared a hewitt who was 7-2 vs fed before AO 2004, having won their last 5-setter and playing better

NEVER said Lopez played better. Only said he posed about as much threat i.e none whatsoever.

Stay tuned for more. I know people reading this would be LOL'ing at those jokes and need to take a break from that !

No one stays tuned to you except me, because I like annoying the shi.t out of you and the stuff I say irritates you to the point that you just have to respond :mrgreen:

 

[abmk]

I asked for BIG matches and all you could give me were those.

incorrect, you said in that post I couldn't provide any matches where rafa lost inspite of winning more points.

First of all, please point out where I said Fed was weak mentally because I can't recall ever saying that. I said he's weak mentally against Nadal but that's all I've said and you make it out like as if I said he was weak mentaly against everyone. Lack of comprehension...Mr. abmk

Show me where I said you said he was mentally weak overall. I said "if". Try again. can't read, huh !

Rafa hit his prime during the clay season of 08, since then his only beatdown was against Delpo.

Rog got belted at RG08.

So really it's one all since they hit their best form, so you can't say Rafa usually loses easier because that's BS. Rafa wasn't in his prime after he won his first GS and you can't compare a mature aged Roger Federer to a teen-very early 20's Nadal. You have to compare them at the same age to be fair and because that doesn't favor Fed you make it sound like a rediculous comparison to make when in reality (outside your lovefest for your boyfriend) it is the fairest comparison to make. What happens if Rafa has seasons winning 3+ slams both this year and next year? Everyone will say his best years were from 2010-2012. Point is we don't even know if Rafa has reached his full potential yet or whether he's on the brink of it so quit whinging about the age comparison, it's not my fault Fed wasn't as good as Rafa when he was a teen or in his very early 20's and because that desn't look good for Fed, too bad.

So you fail because you can't stand that at the same ages Rafa has outperformed Fed in nearly every single year.

I didn't take teen nadal , did I now ? age to age comparison is not fair as different players peak at different times.

If we're taking best years only, then fed's RG beatdown doesn't come into the picture - as he had 5 seasons EASILY better than 2008.

As far as future is concerned, we'll see what happens.

 

[abmk]

Yes there are very few and Delpo at USO09 was one of them.

whatever suits your boat, you make that your opinion !

So how did Rafa get to the final set when Rog was playing better off the ground and serving BETTER in sets 1 & 3 than set 2 which he won? Show me the formula for points won by Mental Edge (ME), Rafa must've won a lot of those and I must admit I don't know that one, but I'm sure you do genius...

show me where I said federer was playing better off the ground in sets 1 and 3

You can tell me I'm wrong for as long as you can stand it but do go back to 2009 just after the match and tell the expert commentators on ESPN that they're all wrong. It was clear that although Rafa did play well undeniably, he was not at his very best because he was able to defend better in the Verdasco match because he wasn't as fatigued.

again, near best. Again very good defense is not the only way to reduce winners from the opponents. Its also being more attacking yourself, which is what rafa did better than he did in the SF

Nah, it was just a coincidence that Fed won two sets AFTER the rain delay.

It CLEARLY disrupted Rafa's momentum and gave Fed a chance to settle down and play better, esp on his service games.

yes, because fed fought back

So, he didn't serve well (we've agreed on something apart from 03Wim being less tough than USO2010), and Djoker was playing really really well (probably his best tourny ever IYO). OK so tell me if Djoker was playing so well AND he attacks Fed's serve MUCH more than Rafa, then WHY wasn't he able to break Fed's serve more than a grand total of ONCE??? FUrther more, WHY was he only able to earn 3 BP's??? The only possible explanation is that Superman must've shown up again or of course, you're full of shi.t. hmmm, I'll stick with the latter, it's been proven!

since when did aggressive returning equate to better returning ? And yes, federer was playing brilliantly off the ground .

@ bold part: I didn't say that. Again, can't read !

Oh I can't wait I'm sure you've got a gem in store for me.

djoker's serve was still pretty good then. He played more agressively off the ground ( though not by much ) ( W+errors he forced out of federer , % wise back me up on this )

despite not serving that well, fed hit the same no of winners as rafa did over less points , overall considering winners+errors he forced out of novak, wise, he was better

Djoker's nerves kind of got to him in those sets, he finally held his nerve well in the last set. If you actually watched the match you would know that Novak was the better player in each set, but he let his nerves disrupt him in the latter stages of set 1 and 3. All Fed had to do was hold his serve to keep close to Novak and then he would hand it over to Fed. Fed had another bad serve day overall I do remember that BTW, but he hung tough in those sets until Djoker gave him the chance.

novak was not the better player in set 1, though he was set 3.

As for the Troicki match, that was first round, after that he played brilliantly (for him anyway) and was able to brush aside most opponents esp Monfils after that first set. So overall he was consistently playing very well in USO2010 after round 1, as for USO09 he had his battles here and there. So therefore based on that, I will say that USO2010 was one of the best tourny's he's ever played and I rate it higher than USO09.

wheaton was playing very well of the ground which is one of the reasons why djoker went slightly off that time. verdy match, he didn't play well, but was never in the danger of losing

No I said Wim08 Rafa had a more developed BH and he did, you don't rate a guys BH off one purple patch. So that one match is not relevant, he had a better technique and was therefore more dangerous when he pulled it off, so much so that the EXPERT commentators also took note of it.

They were saying in general. But as far as play in wim 07 and wim 08 finals goes, not much of a difference in BH play

Of course he stumbled in both, thank you captain obvious. He held it together in 08 whereas in 07 he didn't. EOS!

no, fed closed it out in wim 07 , but didn't/couldn't wim 08.

No he played good enough to win, mentally that was Rafa at his best, but he doesn't normally lose a lot of rally's against Fed. He fought through that third set when he could've easily lost hit he was down a lot of BP's but held it together mentally and played VERY aggressive on those points to save his serve. Again you need to take a trip back to 2009 right after the final and tell all those expert commentators who know much more about the game and players than you do that they're wrong. BTW Good to see you ignore the entire first half of that response, when you don't have an answer best thing is to shut up shop, you did that brilliantly here, if only you could follow up your own good work.

already replied tp

In case it was too hard for you to understand, I said that the windy conditions is what made Verdy's lead even more impressive. The wind effects Verdy's serve more than Rafa's idiot and the fact that he was able to hold up well and start better than Rafa is quite impressive. I also said the wind is why he DF'd a lot, so how you can somehow convert that into me saying the wind helped his serve is beyond me.

now I did not say that last part. Making up stuff as usual. All I said a break in windy conditions is not a commanding lead by any means

it was a good start, but he simply blew it after that

1) I just wanted to throw that in there, I like how you call me an absolute idiot for it. Can't stand that 6-2 lead can you :mrgreen:

LOL, again, that's appropriate to use when posts that have no logic are put up

2) YOu're categorically wrong. I think I'll leave it at that, you won't admit you're wrong so you keep embarrassing yourself by saying that ROddick played better when he obviously didn't.

LOL, I've said what I had to on the roddick match. You didn't have a reply for the seedings part, did you. Not surprising !

 

[abmk]

Ouch that hurts stop it! I apologize if I piched a nerve or tugged at your heart strings :twisted:

LOL, again, couldn't even calculate forced errors given W/UE and total points, yet asks others if they made it up ? After being embarrassed, says he did it only to annoy ! :lol:

No all his serves went in that's why he had a good serving night.

I said he didn't go that much for the corners, not more than usual anyways. Not that his serves went in. Read again

1. He places the ball better than those three on the return, so he does return aggresively in terms of placement.

2. My opinion. Good aggressive return allows you to control the point on your opponents serve putting you in the best position to break. Rafa doesn't hit flat shots that often so an aggressively heavy topspin shot to Fed's BH is an aggressive return and he did that often apart from the second set where he got a little conservative.

You must be one of the very few delusionals who believes that rafa returns more aggressively than nalbandian/davydenko/djoker etc

3. Verdy served better but as for your opinion, I don't value it and I don't agree with it either.

The difference in serving explains the difference in W/UE ratio for most part. That debunks your so called statistical proof about verdasco playing that much better off the ground ...

No mate, your full of pure BS!!!!!!

oh , another reply typical of kids

 

[Sid_Vicious]

damnit I want to participate in this thread but abmk and sharpshooter have hijacked it with umpteen thousand rant posts!

This is exactly the type of thread that induces brain hemorrhages.

 

[abmk]

Safin doesn't play anymore. who's etc? And why couldn't attacking Djoker break Fed more than once in the 09USO semi? and why did he only earn 3 BP chances?[


Rain delay.

already replied to

Already explained this.

explained what ? by saying nadal wasn't playing his best off the ground ?

How does that explain fed playing MUCH worse off the ground against players who weren't playing that well off the ground as rafa was and when fed was under MUCH less pressure ?

NEVER said Lopez played better. Only said he posed about as much threat i.e none whatsoever.

yes, obviously a 2 time slam champion with a 7-2 lead in H2H, having won their last 5-set meeting posed no threat whatsoever

No one stays tuned to you except me, because I like annoying the shi.t out of you and the stuff I say irritates you to the point that you just have to respond :mrgreen:

I was the one who first said that I was only replying to get more funny statements out of you. Now you are copying that, only changing it to annoying me. You are only continuing to defend your ridiculous statements, but end up making more of them to defend the previous ones :lol:

 

[abmk]

Maybe a FRESH Safin would've. He was ranked 86 and unseeded, image if he hit a confident Safin a little earlier...

safin wasn't playing that well in the early rounds, not even close to his AO 2005 AO form. Understandable as he was coming from a layoff

He only struck very good form after a poor first set vs roddick

The return sets up the point and allows him to take control better than anyone else. He has a great return esp early on in that final to send the message. Brilliant mind games from Rafa!

let's see , rafa has an "excellent" return ( IYO ), is the best off the ground ( yes, he is), is very consistent ( yes he is), is very good at converting break points ( yes, he is )

then shouldn't he be leading the return stats by a considerable margin ? fact is he doesn't ! ( there are more factors of course, but some of them nullify the others )

LLLLOOOLLLL!!!!! I knew each and every one of those would pi.ss you off and you responded to each and every one of them like a moron. Whatever you said to each one of them, you're wrong I've already proved that.

umm, this is probably what happened.

"Oh, no, he rebutted every one of my lines effectively. What should I do ? I have no reply. Ah, wait, let me just say I did it pis* him off and that he is wrong. Yeah, that's a nice escape route"

 

[abmk]

The funny thing is, this argument would not be going on outside of the anonymity of an online message board. When people disagree with each other while talking in real life, they usually don't just toss out "moron" and "clueless" to a complete stranger. Gotta love the internets.

It's obvious though, its embarrassing calling people names in reality while on the Internet your discrete.

can't disagree . Might've gone a bit overboard , but I only did it seeing some of his "crazy" posts.

I always take care not to offend any of the decent/good posters around here. That's all I have to say on this , for now atleast !

 

[Sharpshooter]

incorrect, you said in that post I couldn't provide any matches where rafa lost inspite of winning more points.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5317102&postcount=450

Clearly I said tell me which big matches Rafa has lost when he'd won more points. But of course, you couldn't read it properly because you're such a hypocrite.

Show me where I said you said he was mentally weak overall. I said "if". Try again. can't read, huh !

Well then why would you all of sudden imply that I said Fed was weak mentally? You just threw that IF in there to boost your response because of how shi.t it was.

I didn't take teen nadal , did I now ? age to age comparison is not fair as different players peak at different times.

If we're taking best years only, then fed's RG beatdown doesn't come into the picture - as he had 5 seasons EASILY better than 2008.

No, just a 20yo Rafa. LOL. And no we're not talking best years only because that would be stupid, they didn't get belted in any of their best years. Rafa's best in 08 came during the clay season so the Tsonga match doesn't count. I was talking since they hit their best form. And since then Nadal got thumped by Delpo and Fed got thumped by Rafa. 1 all, so when you say Rafa usually loses easier is biased BS.

 

[Sharpshooter]

whatever suits your boat, you make that your opinion !

Damn right I will.

show me where I said federer was playing better off the ground in sets 1 and 3

Well he had a shi.t 5th set. So if he played better from the ground when else was he going to play better? Just set 2 and 4, yet he played better off the ground overall? I don't have to show you, dig it up yourself.

again, near best. Again very good defense is not the only way to reduce winners from the opponents. Its also being more attacking yourself, which is what rafa did better than he did in the SF

No good defense isn't the only way, but it certainly helps doesn't it? Fed created more FE's than Verdy despite that match going about 50mins longer, so Rafa's defense was not as good as it was in the Verdy match.

yes, because fed fought back

AFTER the rain delay allowed him to clear his mind and help him settle down.

since when did aggressive returning equate to better returning ? And yes, federer was playing brilliantly off the ground .

@ bold part: I didn't say that. Again, can't read !

1. Firstly, aggressive returning is what allows you to set up and control the points, yet Djoker managed only 3 BP's and converted only 1. Says it all really.

2. LOL I said apart from AO08 that USO10 was probably Djoker's best tourny ever and you vehemently disagreed and said USO07 and USO09 were better performances from him. So yeah, you can't read your own posts lol.

djoker's serve was still pretty good then. He played more agressively off the ground ( though not by much ) ( W+errors he forced out of federer , % wise back me up on this )

despite not serving that well, fed hit the same no of winners as rafa did over less points , overall considering winners+errors he forced out of novak, wise, he was better

So Fed hitting more winners proves that Novak wasn't defending as well as 2010USO final. Then, Novak hit more W+FE's which is obvious because Rafa defends better than anyone including Fed so what do you expect? Next.

novak was not the better player in set 1, though he was set 3.

Fed played bad in the first set pal, so that's arguable that Fed played better in set 1. You like comparing shi.t performances don't you? They both played crap but I believe Novak should've won it, plus it doesn't change the fact that Djoker had a better USO2010 tourny than in 09.

wheaton was playing very well of the ground which is one of the reasons why djoker went slightly off that time. verdy match, he didn't play well, but was never in the danger of losing

Troicki > wheaton and Fed>Verdasco. They were Djoker's 2 struggles before making the final in 2010 and those opponents were both MUCh tougher than those in 09. So if he struggled against weaker opponents in 09, how could he have had a better tournament? Oh wait I know because you're still full of it.

They were saying in general. But as far as play in wim 07 and wim 08 finals goes, not much of a difference in BH play

And WTF did I say? I said in Wim08 his BH was more developed. That is the tournament so learn to read yourself moron. In fact you've misread a LOT more stuff than I have hypocrite.

no, fed closed it out in wim 07 , but didn't/couldn't wim 08.

BS Rafa had 4 BP chances in the fifth set before Fed closed it out. Therefore Rafa's nerves got he best of him, Fed served great to get out of trouble no doubt, but IIRC Raf had one point where he went for a knockout shot and hit the ball JUST wide. So Fed didn't close out shi.t, it was Rafa's nerves causing him to miss the shot and not get the break.

now I did not say that last part. Making up stuff as usual. All I said a break in windy conditions is not a commanding lead by any means

Then why did you say that breaks of serve were more common in windy conditions after I had said that that was why Verdy even leading in the first place was impressive?

LOL, I've said what I had to on the roddick match. You didn't have a reply for the seedings part, did you. Not surprising !

Whatever you've said regarding the Roddick match is BS.

 

[Sharpshooter]

LOL, again, couldn't even calculate forced errors given W/UE and total points, yet asks others if they made it up ? After being embarrassed, says he did it only to annoy ! :lol:

Embarrassed of what? I proved that I knew it so again your full of it.

I said he didn't go that much for the corners, not more than usual anyways. Not that his serves went in. Read again

So how did his serves miss a lot then? Admit it he was going for more and couldn't execute.

You must be one of the very few delusionals who believes that rafa returns more aggressively than nalbandian/davydenko/djoker etc

Again who is etc? And why didn't Djoker at least EARN more than 3 BP's in the USO09 final when Fed served average?

The difference in serving explains the difference in W/UE ratio for most part. That debunks your so called statistical proof about verdasco playing that much better off the ground ...

20 Aces to 11 and 4 DF's to 6.
Plus verdy hit 75 winners off the ground compared to Fed's 60. that's 15 more.

oh , another reply typical of kids

Wow is that the best you've got to say.

 

[Sharpshooter]

already replied to

You mean already BS'd to.

explained what ? by saying nadal wasn't playing his best off the ground ?

How does that explain fed playing MUCH worse off the ground against players who weren't playing that well off the ground as rafa was and when fed was under MUCH less pressure ?

Doesn't have to explain the other shi.t Fed ground performances, every match is different. His serve broke down because Rafa showed his intent in the first set and Fed felt he had to place it perfectly and hence went for too much, again it's not rocket science.

yes, obviously a 2 time slam champion with a 7-2 lead in H2H, having won their last 5-set meeting posed no threat whatsoever

At that stage, no. He wasn't in GS winning form in AO04, 2003 was his worst season ATT.

I was the one who first said that I was only replying to get more funny statements out of you. Now you are copying that, only changing it to annoying me. You are only continuing to defend your ridiculous statements, but end up making more of them to defend the previous ones :lol:

Show me where. Besides my statements are only funny when I prove you wrong over and over again and then you can't handle it :lol:.

 

[Sharpshooter]

safin wasn't playing that well in the early rounds, not even close to his AO 2005 AO form. Understandable as he was coming from a layoff

He only struck very good form after a poor first set vs roddick

But how do you know that his form wouldn't have been better against Fed if he wasn't as stuffed? Oh I know you are giving another biased opinion!

let's see , rafa has an "excellent" return ( IYO ), is the best off the ground ( yes, he is), is very consistent ( yes he is), is very good at converting break points ( yes, he is )

then shouldn't he be leading the return stats by a considerable margin ? fact is he doesn't ! ( there are more factors of course, but some of them nullify the others )

No because what the stats don't show is how many tough servers Rafa has played against vs anyone above him on the table.

umm, this is probably what happened.

"Oh, no, he rebutted every one of my lines effectively. What should I do ? I have no reply. Ah, wait, let me just say I did it pis* him off and that he is wrong. Yeah, that's a nice escape route"

You rebutted with the same bullshi.t that I have pretty much already responded to, so why should I type it all out again? You're the idiot that did that and you can't hack it now so you come up with some crap that I couldn't reply when I already have over and over again. I'm guessing if it didn't get through the crap floating between your ears back then, then it won't now so why waste my time when I got what I wanted out of you? BTW that was to respond to each of them with the SAME thing you've been saying throughout our whole "discussion". You could've easily said "I've already responded to those" and moved on, but instead you were so pi.ssed off that you had to respond to them ALL over again. What a gullable moron

 

[abmk]

Well he had a shi.t 5th set. So if he played better from the ground when else was he going to play better? Just set 2 and 4, yet he played better off the ground overall? I don't have to show you, dig it up yourself.

was better off the ground in sets 2 and 4. about nearly equal in 3 - went to a TB.

No good defense isn't the only way, but it certainly helps doesn't it? Fed created more FE's than Verdy despite that match going about 50mins longer, so Rafa's defense was not as good as it was in the Verdy match.

didn't say it was, just that he was going for more in the final, rather than concentrating on reducing his UEs like he did in the verdy match

1. Firstly, aggressive returning is what allows you to set up and control the points, yet Djoker managed only 3 BP's and converted only 1. Says it all really.

LOL, you seem to be laboring under the delusion that aggressive returning = better returning ( all the time ). Its not. yes , all it says is federer was playing that well .

2. LOL I said apart from AO08 that USO10 was probably Djoker's best tourny ever and you vehemently disagreed and said USO07 and USO09 were better performances from him. So yeah, you can't read your own posts lol.

you said that I said USO 2009 was his best GS tourney. I never said that . AO 2008 was his best tourney.

So Fed hitting more winners proves that Novak wasn't defending as well as 2010USO final. Then, Novak hit more W+FE's which is obvious because Rafa defends better than anyone including Fed so what do you expect? Next.

at first part, no, it doesn't, it means fed was just more aggressive than nadal.

Like I said whatever I said won't get through your head. You will just try to twist them to suit your "agenda". Go watch some matches !

then perhaps you'll see how well fed was playing in USO 2009 SF, you might also see how well davy was playing in AO 2006 QF and hear the commentators saying repeatedly about how the W/UE stats did no justice to davydenko's level of play , how he forced errors out of fed etc etc

Fed played bad in the first set pal, so that's arguable that Fed played better in set 1. You like comparing shi.t performances don't you? They both played crap but I believe Novak should've won it, plus it doesn't change the fact that Djoker had a better USO2010 tourny than in 09.

what a load of cr*p. fed did NOT play bad in the first set. he had BPs, novak saved them, then he broke fed. fed broke back. Then he broke again at the end of the set.

fed won 41 points to novak's 34 in that set btw. That is no negligible difference for a set.

Troicki > wheaton and Fed>Verdasco. They were Djoker's 2 struggles before making the final in 2010 and those opponents were both MUCh tougher than those in 09. So if he struggled against weaker opponents in 09, how could he have had a better tournament? Oh wait I know because you're still full of it.

because he had lesser struggles against the weaker opponents, duh !!!

And WTF did I say? I said in Wim08 his BH was more developed. That is the tournament so learn to read yourself moron. In fact you've misread a LOT more stuff than I have hypocrite.

we were comparing specific matches. That is what is relevant.

BS Rafa had 4 BP chances in the fifth set before Fed closed it out. Therefore Rafa's nerves got he best of him, Fed served great to get out of trouble no doubt, but IIRC Raf had one point where he went for a knockout shot and hit the ball JUST wide. So Fed didn't close out shi.t, it was Rafa's nerves causing him to miss the shot and not get the break.

going for knockout blow and just missing on the return (went out ) is as bad as DFing and making an uncharacteristic UE when on own serve? really ?

Then why did you say that breaks of serve were more common in windy conditions after I had said that that was why Verdy even leading in the first place was impressive?

because you said verdy was in a commanding position. verdy playing well to go ahead does not mean he was in a commanding position as breaks of serve are more common in windy conditions and rafa could easily make a comeback and he did.

Whatever you've said regarding the Roddick match is BS.

LOL, again, only you think that. I was talking about delpo AO 2009 and verdy USO 2010 there btw

 

[abmk]

So how did his serves miss a lot then? Admit it he was going for more and couldn't execute.

his rhythm was off, even the serves he didn't intend to hit in the corners, but somewhat inside, he was missing.

20 Aces to 11 and 4 DF's to 6.
Plus verdy hit 75 winners off the ground compared to Fed's 60. that's 15 more.

LMAO ! ever heard of something known as service winners ??????

removing just the aces and DFs, the W/UE differential reduces to +3 ( from +19) for verdy and +2 ( from +7 ) for fed. Hardly any difference.

Wow is that the best you've got to say.

because that is what it was.

 

[abmk]

But how do you know that his form wouldn't have been better against Fed if he wasn't as stuffed? Oh I know you are giving another biased opinion!

You speculated saying he was #86 and what if he'd met fed in the early rounds ? I responded by saying he wasn't in such great form in the first 4 rounds and he was cr*p in the first set vs roddick. It was only after that he started playing real good tennis.

He'd have played better against fed if he weren't fatigued. How much better, we don't know.

No because what the stats don't show is how many tough servers Rafa has played against vs anyone above him on the table.

like I said , there are other factors as well and they nullify each other to an extent. For example the fact that rafa is so strong off the ground on clay that he breaks more often that anyone else ( obviously ) - and on clay, return isn't that significant as it is elsewhere.

You rebutted with the same bullshi.t that I have pretty much already responded to, so why should I type it all out again? You're the idiot that did that and you can't hack it now so you come up with some crap that I couldn't reply when I already have over and over again. I'm guessing if it didn't get through the crap floating between your ears back then, then it won't now so why waste my time when I got what I wanted out of you? BTW that was to respond to each of them with the SAME thing you've been saying throughout our whole "discussion". You could've easily said "I've already responded to those" and moved on, but instead you were so pi.ssed off that you had to respond to them ALL over again. What a gullable moron

yes, I had to reply to you making up statements and all that cr*p. I already have said "already responded to" when I have

 

[abmk]

Doesn't have to explain the other shi.t Fed ground performances, every match is different. His serve broke down because Rafa showed his intent in the first set and Fed felt he had to place it perfectly and hence went for too much, again it's not rocket science.

First consider the AO 2009 F itself. rafa was playing well off the ground and fed matched him , inspite of the pressure ... His groundstrokes are more prone to breaking down rather than his serve, isn't it ? if he was that nervous, wouldn't it have had some effect consdering the pressure ?

how did he fail on his serve only, but not on ground strokes that day ? It isn't that rafa was playing badly/average off the ground , was he ?

yes, its not rocket science, he had a bad serving day - due to himself. Nothing much to do with rafa.

At that stage, no. He wasn't in GS winning form in AO04, 2003 was his worst season ATT.

still had beaten fed at davis cup in 2003 - a 5-setter.

Show me where. Besides my statements are only funny when I prove you wrong over and over again and then you can't handle it :lol:.

here read:

Anyways I'm done arguing with someone as clueless who claims that on the tour , nadal attacks the federer 2nd serve the most. LOL, how much more clueless can one get ? :lol: :lol: .. Well on thinking it a bit more, I'll just keep arguing, if only to get more gems like the one above :lol:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5314075&postcount=394