abmk
Bionic Poster
there, fixed , considering their form and state at those times
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What is the criteria for a "cakewalk" draw?
- Thread starter nadal_slam_king
- Start date
there, fixed , considering their form and state at those times
abmk
Bionic Poster
Didn't I already disprove all of this BS about fed's draws in my previous posts ? You have no reply to them and keep on repeating this like a parrot
The no 12 and 8 seeds in USO 2010 played like jokers . period !
fed's FO and wimby 2009 > nadal's 2010 wimbledon draw and >> nadal's USO 2010 draw
2007 AO, he faced the same youzhny who rafa faced in USO 2010 SF, in 3R , mind you youzhny played MUCH better then .. , he also faced roddick and gonzo , who was seriously hot ..
2006 AO, he faced davydenko who played slightly better than djoker did in the USO 2010 final ...baggy was also playing well, though fed was off in the first set and half for that match
2003 wim he faced two good opponents in roddick and scud, nadal faced just one in djoker , though you could argue djoker played better than both
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abmk
Bionic Poster
what a joke ... hewitt, nalbandian both had fed's number at that time and were light years better than anyone rafa faced before the finals , even ferrero was MUCH better than anyone rafa faced before the finals ...
from what I remember nalbandian played fed tough in that AO QF , was some quality tennis
Mustard
Bionic Poster
The 2004 Australian Open was Safin's first tournament in 3 months and he was ranked at 86 in the world at the time. His run to the final was crazy, with all the 5-setters and tough 4-setters.
R128: Marat Safin def. Brian Vahaly (6-2, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
R64: Marat Safin def. Jarkko Nieminen (7-6, 6-4, 4-6, 6-4)
R32: Marat Safin def. Todd Martin (7-5, 1-6, 4-6, 6-0, 7-5)
R16: Marat Safin def. James Blake (7-6, 6-3, 6-7, 6-3)
QF: Marat Safin def. Andy Roddick (2-6, 6-3, 7-5, 6-7, 6-4)
SF: Marat Safin def. Andre Agassi (7-6, 7-6, 5-7, 1-6, 6-3)
F: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (7-6, 6-4, 6-2)
Sharpshooter
Banned
You haven't disproved a thing, Fed's draws were a joke in all of those tournaments but you can't admit it so you talk like as if those opponents were tough when they weren't.
Yeah real jokers that got to the quarter's and semi's.
Says who? You? Well just stop the presses because Mr.Knowitall here says that those draws for Fed were tougher. Wow now we're all convinced. Funny how you say that when he faced one tough opponent in JMDP and only won that because Delpo was stuffed, his fitness wasn't quite at the right level.
Again with the Roddick tough thing, let me remind you that he washed him away in that match. Face it Roddick to Fed is EXACTLY like Verdasco to Rafa, they put up ONE great match against the rivals that they ALWAYS get belted by on nearly every other occasion.
Gonzo was in his first ever Slam final and his only ever.
Baggy was another one and only slam final wonder and he, just like Gonzo got caught up in the moment and clearly they weren't at their best.
There goes your credibility. LOL scud a good opponent.
abmk
Bionic Poster
You haven't disproved a thing, Fed's draws were a joke in all of those tournaments but you can't admit it so you talk like as if those opponents were tough when they weren't.
Yeah real jokers that got to the quarter's and semi's.
I already elaborated on everything , but you don't have an answer - because you are clueless ...
according to you davydenko and nalbandian played cr*p against fed in AO 2006 and AO 2004 QFs ,didn't they ? :roll:
roddick in wimby 2009 was MUCH tougher opponent and much more accomplished on grass than anyone rafa faced in wimby 2010 ...soderling played about equal in both matches , haas played much better than the cr*p show berdych put up in the final ..
yet rafa's draw was tougher and you claimed no one "unbiased" would disagree... HA HA HA !!!!!!
haas , acusaso and even PHM played MUCH better than what youzhny and verdasco did !
this is an absolute joke ! just illustrates your cluelesness ...
roddick played federer tough in wimby 2004 F ( was up a break in the third , was one set all )
he had BPs at 5-5 in the 3rd set ( one set all ) in USO 2006 as well
played federer tough in USO 2007 as well ( though it was straight sets ) - the first 2 sets were as high quality and as tough as it gets !
MOST IMPORTANTLY, verdasco is sh*t against all good caliber players , his record against top 10 players is PATHETIC ...
roddick has major problems against only federer - that should be a credit to federer and not a point against him saying he's such a weak oppoent , unlike what you nitwits make it out to be and parrot every time !
yes, but both were in the best form of their lives in those tourneys and both played fairly good tennis in the finals unlike berdych
obviously you didn't see him play much :roll: that guy could be pretty dangerous when on ...
obviously beating sampras/agassi in slams, splendid performances in DC 99,reaching 2 slams finals etc is no big deal :roll:
P.S. you mention delpo being tired in the FO final, he was a bit tired, but he did break back in the 5th ..yet you don't mention haase fading away due to injury, nice double standards ...
fed's had some relatively easy draws, no doubt, esp wim 2003 and AO 2006 ,but some of the ones you put up are just plain cr*p and ... and yeah rafa's USO 2010 was darn weak till the finals ... djoker in the finals is/was the only worthy opponent he faced
Again, I'll repeat, its hilarious how you whine about people pointing that out, while year after year, month after month, event after event, the *******s keep on posting "federer has a weak draw" , "federer has a weak draw" n times !!!
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Sharpshooter
Banned
So you're saying Fed's draws were tough because of Davydenko and Nalbandian? Fed was up 2 sets to love against Nalbandian and got a little comfortable in the third set before picking up where he left off. As for Davy well yeah he played pretty good but again one tough match doesn't make it a tough draw.
Berdych was playing his first final where was Haas? In another one of his famous semi's? And if Roddick was so much tougher an opponent than why did he lose to Lu the very next year? Oh wait mono right? What about 2008 where he lost to Tipsy in the SECOND ROUND!? What about 2007 where he lost to Gasquet? Or 2006 where he lost to Murray (A guy who he's A LOT more better than on grass apparently) in the THIRD ROUND and he was defending his final appearance points from the previous year.
And if you look at his finals appearances in 2005 he struggled to beat Grosjean and T.Johansson in the quarters and semis respectively, hardly the toughest oppenents on grass. In 2004 he beat Sjeng Schalken and an unseeded Mario Ancic in the semis. His only big scalp on the way to a final was Murray and he played well in that match and earnt it but to call him MUCH more accomplished is a joke, if Murray was around back then at the level he is now he would've easily made it to the 2004 and 2005 finals.
Yeah of course not and I just explained why. Fed struggled because he was too busy planning his celebration with his 15 on his jacket before the match even started. Plus Fed's form in 2009 is so over rated just goes to show what happens when a prime Rafa isn't around...
Why because a shi.t form Fed struggled to beat them? If Fed was in his sharp form just as Rafa was at the 2010 USO those matches would've been over in straights pal! Even another Fed fan in this forum has said that Fed's form in the 09 FO was shi.t so why can't you admit it?
So you're bringing the very few matches that Roddick put up a fight against Fed? WHy don't you start mentioning how well Roddick did against him at the Aus open every time they've played there -including 2009? Please tell me if Roddick is so good why has he not been in the top 4 or 5 for ages? Maybe because the top 4/5 are better than him, did that thought ever cross your mind? Roger did not have to play a single top 5 player in 2009 Wimby and those are the guys that give him the most trouble throughout every season and it's for a reason!
True but if you compare Verdasco's success against Rafa with Roddick's success against Fed it is quite similar, i.e they both get belted almost 100% of the time
Give Rafa credit for whooping Fed's arse all these years then and count your lucky stars he lost to Djoko because it was as plain as daylight that Rafa was going to beat him in the USO. Djoko was clearly the toughest opponent he could have faced and the draw can't be called a cakewalk just becase he didn't play Fed. Djoko didn't play bad in the final in fact he probably played better in the final than the semi and he got beat relatively convincingly as well.
You think Gonzo played good in the final with two 6-2 sets? Baggy played crap after the first set he got BAGELED in the third FFS! But Berdych was in shi.t form. Contradicting much?
What? Before his huge injuries? 2003 was his comeback year and Agassi was way passed it in 2003 yet scud still struggled to beat him. You obviously don't know much about tennis now do you.
Djokovic gassed out too at the latter stages of the match at best the USO10 Djokovic that Nadal faced is a bit better than the AO04 Safin Federer faced
Sharpshooter
Banned
Surely that's a joke. That 5 setter had 2 very short sets and was not that greulling like Safin v Agassi and Roddick. Plus a series of 4-5 setters takes more out of you both physically and mentally than just the one. Plus Djokovic didn't show any tiring signs because that match was continuously interrupted by rain. He didn't gas out he gave up hope.
Go and read Mustard's post and you will understand the difference.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
when did I say AO 2006 was tough , I mentioned that and wim 2006 as the two most relatively easy draws he had, didn't I ?
Learn to read ...
Same way, rafa faced only one decent opponent in djoker in USO 2010 , fed had to fight off baggy and haas , though slips in level of play were part of the reason ...
talk was specifically about wim 2009 .. roddick played MUCH better than murray ever has on grass , in the finals ...
now put murray in place of roddick and HC in place of grass and talk ! verdasco (didn't even play that well as he did in the QFs and semis), cilic,wawrinka ....all upsets !
regarding haas, yes, he couldn't reach the final because he faced a fed who played at his very best, instead of the crappy tennis he played against berdych ( berdych did play very well in that match vs fed, no doubt )
LOL, LOL !
rafa was there in FO 2009, USO 2009 and AO 2010 , just couldn't reach the finals
he was on and off in FO 2009 ... he played very well against soderling and monfils, played decent against delpo, badly against haas ( first half atleast ) and acusaso
nevertheless that does not change the fact that these guys actually played well to challenge him ... its not that easy to take sets even from an off-colour fed
you said that was the ONLY match where roddick challenged fed ... And you couldn't be more WRONG !
here is what you said,
regarding top 5,
secondly, you think murray would've challenged fed more on grass in 2009, LOL ! he can't even get a set off him on HC slam matches , forget about grass ...
you think djoker would've challenged him on grass ? seriously ? considering he struggled against haas ? :lol:
which leaves us with rafa - yes, valid, he withdrew ...
aside of rafa, roddick was the next worthy opponent for fed on grass
he's not in the top 5, because there are younger, fresher players at the top ... he isn't as consistent as he used to be .. doesn't mean he can't have very good runs like dubai 2008, AO 2009,wim 2009,miami 2010 etc .. he still leads the HC H2H with djoker I believe and won vs murray on the big stage at wimby in 2009
umm, no its not ,
firstly the AO match was the only one where verdasco put up a a real fight against nadal, roddick has done so on several occasions , those were just the slam ones by the way .. he has also beaten him on two occasions, had MPs in shanghai 2006, played him close in miami 2009 ...
secondly its not a good comparison because of the above and also because roddick has proven himself and is a MUCH better player than verdasco
LOL ! if fed had played cr*p like he did in the semis, he'd have lost to rafa, no doubt, but if he played well, I'd favour him over rafa
baggy was serving for the 2nd set IIRC ... his form did taper off after that, berdych didn't even play decent tennis for any set !
regarding gonzo, it was 7-6,6-4,6-4 , with gonzo having setpoint in the first set ... what are on you on about ? Again, just showing off your cluelessness !!!! jeez, go watch some tennis !
agassi was way past it in 2003 ? LOL ! he ended the year in the top 5 .. he won the AO that year, made it to the semis of USO and finals of the YEC
secondly regarding scud, I am/was aware of his injuries .. but in wimby 2003 , he was on a good run
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Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Shh. Dont interrupt. Mandy vs Sharpshooter is going to make Isner-Mahut look like a warmup.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
I don't think Novak was gassed either. The USO ordinarily only has one day to recover and Novak got an extra day which made it like a regular major as far as days off. Then, he got the interruption in the middle of the match. On top of that, it was a cool day, so there's no way he was gassed. He played well, but lost.
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
Shh. Dont interrupt. Mandy vs Sharpshooter is going to make Isner-Mahut look like a warmup.
Mahut: oh no. ay cant ztanz it anymorre. manzy... abmk... shuz up!
Isner: hell yaaaa... you too sharphootttaa....
Sharpshooter
Banned
Then why did you argue my point about the 06 AO being easy by bringing up how tough Davy and Bagdad were? Plus I don't remember you saying anything about Wimby 06 at all.
Bagdad put up NOTHING after the first set and a half. BTW If you remember the Haas match correctly Fed was belting the shi.t out of him until he dropped his level after the first 2 sets, once the match was on in the fifth Fed regained his concentration and just got rid of Haas like he was nothing.
Yes he did play better than Murray ever did but he also played better than he ever did too. That was his best match on grass but Fed could not read Roddick's serve too well at all (something he has done very well in the past). But Murray would've had something against Fed that Roddick didn't and that was the belief that he could win; Roddick knew he could do well but deep down after all the beatings esp at the Aus open he would've been questioning himself a lot as to whether he could actually pull it off. Murray on the other hand had the better h2h record against Fed and Murray has troubled Fed way more than Roddick has so IMO he could've been a tougher opponent for Fed to beat if he made it and played well without the nerves and pressure.
Those players are more accomplished than the one's Roddick lost to at Wimby mate, even more acomplished than a teenaged Murray.
Yes I know, I meant prime & fit Rafa and Rafa was unfit in ALL of those tourny's.
Of course it's still tough to take sets but Rafa loses sets when he's not on too, difference is Rafa brings it 90% of the time and doesn't take any opponent for granted, unlike Fed who (and you know this) gets cocky before
the matches he's expected to win and doesn't turn up fully focused.
Wrong. I said it was one GREAT match, the others were a bit of a fight but not good enough to be considered great, especially USO 07 QF.
We could never possibly know for sure, they've never played on grass to get a good indication. Fed's best surface is HC anyway in particular the USO because he doesn't need to have as many rallies, way more cheap points off his serve there.
He struggled against Troiki in 2010 USO as well. Djoko has up and down form more than any of the other top 4 IMO. In 2007 Wim Djoko took the first set from Rafa on gras so if he played well then yes I think he could definitely challenge Fed on grass.
Based on what? Did you not read my posts properly? I've already explained that Roddick had 2 free passes to the Wim final in 04 & 05 and after that it took him 4 years to make one more finals appearance and if Rafa was in that draw I'm tipping he would've been out in the quarters.
Yeah younger guys like James Blake and Davydenko right? They're the ones that first pushed him out IIRC. I'm not trying to say he's shi.t, he's one of my favourite players to watch, but realistically If you were going to give any players a chance against Roger it would be (from best to worst):
1.Rafa
2.Djoko
3.Murray
4.Del Potro
5 & 6 (either). Soderling or Berdych
7. I'd put Roddick here because I can't put him above the guys that have actually got the job done in GS's in the past few years. He's only come close to beating Rog once and that was obviously Wim 09 (Can't include 4 set matches you need to win at least 2 sets in GS for it to be considered coming close to winning).
So I hope I've made it clear by now how little a threat Roddick poses Fed in Grand Slams. He's had more shots than anybody else I've listed there (but equal with Rafa) and he has not beaten him once.
Roddick's also played Fed more times no?In fact 11 more times to be exact. Maybe Verdasco will get a couple of wins somewhere in there the next 11 times they play.
Yes Roddick is better than Verdasco, agree with you 100% on that, but my point is that Roddick only won one match against Fed in their first 11 and Verdasco hasn't won any so that is a fairly similar h2h they have that's all I'm trying to say. It's got nothing to do with who the better player is I'm just saying that they are the lapdogs of their main rivals and nobody can argue against that.
Roger was a lesser threat than Djokovic and that's why I was a little worried when he won that match. Novak almost always destroys Rafa on HC, he has the best HC record against him whereas Raf has a fairly damn good outdoor HC record against Fed.
He did ok in the second set almost took it to a tiebreaker and had break point oppotunities in the third but didn't take them. Fed's personality is completely different from Rafa's, Fed's the kind of guy that would underestimate an opponent. I reckon he got overconfident when he saw he was playing Bagdad and that's why he didn't start well. Again once he realised he was in the shi.t he raised his game.
Sorry, my bad couldn't remember the exact score but I did remember that Fed was comfortable after the first set.
He ended up top five because he won the AO. He couldn't defend in 2002 IIRC and therefore picked up a shi.tload of points after having one of the easiest draws in the history of men's professional tennis. Now THAT was a real joke draw. US open was a pretty easy draw too. I know I sound like I'm saying every draw was weak but Coria, Dent and a far over the hill Kafelnikov obviously he was going to beat them. The number one seed seems to get the easier draws the majority of the time.
As for Scud, yes he had a good run but didn't do anything special, a younger Agassi would not have lost to him and he struggled against someone I can't remember in the quarters, I remember him being down 2 sets to love but can't remember the guy he was playing. Doesn't make him a huge threat to a Federer.
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Excuse me,I've been discussing this very important topic of Serendipitous leaving over the last few pages and been doing that with you.
Mahut: oh no. ay cant ztanz it anymorre. manzy... abmk... shuz up!
Isner: hell yaaaa... you too sharphootttaa....
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
Excuse me,I've been discussing this very important topic of Serendipitous leaving over the last few pages and been doing that with you.
gorecki is a pain in the nose too...
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
That's correct . :evil:
he still likes you thou...
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
You really talk a lot of crap, don't you? Fed's personality is completely different from Rafa's, Fed's the kind of guy that would underestimate an opponent.-WTH is this? You don't know the guy,you don't know how he thinks during/before a match yet here you are churning out presumptious garbage about him .
I hate to say it but the above stuff is probably the most ******** logic I've heard/read.Not sure I can even call it 'logic' because there's nothing logical about it.Just highly biased nonsense.
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mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Sharpshooter
Banned
So getting over confident against guys that have never made it to GS finals before when you are a multpile champion is ******** logic? Only an idiot like you can't understand that -that's why you need to call it ******** logic. You don't know anything about tennis. I don't know how Fed thinks but I'm not the only one who believes he's arrogant plus I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are unfortunately entitled to yours.
You say I'm biased when you have been completely biased yourself, I've actually complimented Fed by saying that he can play crap and still win grand slams. You're the only biased one here and you're a hypocrite and your logic is just total shi.t. According to you Petzchner, Haase and Falla are the kind of guys that make a draw tough. LOL that's the dumbest crap anyone's ever going to read.
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nadal_slam_king
Banned
^^ Rafa's 2010 Wimbledon draw also included Soderling and Murray, was extremely difficult.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I'm totally cool that you love Nadal, and passionately hate Federer. And you're discussions are quite entertaining. However, this remark is one I will comment on.
It's does not really matter that Djokovic apparently always destroys Nadal, because when it really mattered between these, and I really mean, when it really mattered, Djokoivc failed virtually every single time. No matter the surface. On hard courts, the only real significant match was the Olympics semi final, and Nadal won that. Every time they played a slam, Nadal won, and when they fought for the number two ranking, Nadal won.
Sure, Novak has wins over Nadal, so do many others, but when it really mattered in their rivalry, he was beaten. Even at the WTF, he leads him 2-1, and the one he lost was due to all the issues Nadal had in 09. Nadal would know that mentally Joker is fragile, and that he has never overcome in any big match situation. Plus after Novak beating Roger, to me he was mentally, and emotionally exhausted - He played his absolute best in the final set to finally edge Roger after losing to him so much. To me, he was done. I knew he was not going to do anything in that final, and after two sets, I saw him fade away, as I expected.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I agree with this.
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Yes,it is because again you have no idea how a player works.And your personal opinion about him as a person has no place in an argument when you have nothing to back it up(and I'm not talking about random press conference quotes).What you believe or don't believe is irrelevant to me.
Your personal beliefs about a person cannot translate into logic nor can you use them to convince others during an argument that isn't even related to something of that sort.
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mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Carry on misrepresenting peoples' arguments.That's about the best you can do anyway.
Sharpshooter
Banned
I don't passionately hate Fed he's given us some of the greatest matches of the past decade. I just get annoyed at Fed fans that try to downgrade Rafa because they can't stand that he's been the one guy to take it to him and beat him in GS's. The thing I hate is his attitude he's thrown comments here and there over the years such as "I love watching myself play" and "I should be the favorite" etc. What tipped me over the edge was definitely the jacket, the crying when Rafa beat him at Aus open (like as if he's never won anything) and the comment at 2010 Aus open saying "England haven't had a Grand Slam champion in like a 150 years". Plus he gets all shi.tty when he's losing.
BTW nice avatar, I'm guessing you've read "my real life in the cartoon world of wrestling" if not I recommend it highly.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I agree that Federer is far from perfect, and I don't agree with everything he says. And I also understand that there are some overzealous fans, but that is truth on both ends, trust me, there are plenty of those who say the same about Nadal.
Yes, I own that book, I got it the moment it came out. My all time favorite wrestling book. And I saw him live at last years Wrestlemania
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Sharpshooter
Banned
Well if Haas was tough because the match went for five sets then Falla, Petzchner and Haase were just as tough, no?
BTW Fed admitted that he thought the Grand Slam experience gave him the advantage before that match and said that he expected Bagdad to come out nervous and find that he (Bagdad) would have to fight his way back in to it. I live in Australia pal and it was a quick interview during the Aus Open broadcast down here.
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
I did not see much of the Haase match but you'll find no argument from me for Petz.He played really well.
As I said,I don't care for random,out of context press conference stuff.
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Sharpshooter
Banned
Yes he did play well but he wasn't the toughest opponent Rafa faced. Rafa himself would tell you that Murray was his toughest opponent. Rafa had to play at an extremely high level to take the first 2 sets before Murray's fight faded. Even in the third set though, Rafa had to come back from being a break down. Had Rafa played at that level against Petzchner the match would've been over in straights.
abmk
Bionic Poster
was comparing to the draw rafa faced in USO 2010
yet murray couldn't take a set off fed in their 2 HC slam meetings ... where did all that confidence go ? Thin air ? :lol:
umm, no , he was fine in FO 2009, got killed by sod, all that injury BS emerged only after he lost - we didn't hear a word about it before that ...
he had stomach strain in USO 2009, but the way delpo was playing, he would've defeated him anyways and in AO 2010, murray outplayed him , the injury occured only at the tail end of the 2nd set ...
LOL, this cocky fed can still make 23 GS SFs in a row ...while under-estimating opponents !
If we use the word great strictly , then there are very few great matches, but wimb 2004 was a pretty good match
he gets more cheap points at wimb
he was struggling throughout on grass in 2009 ...IIRC
ancic is no free pass by any means
talk was about grass at wimbledon... and playing against a federer who was/is playing decent/good
again, like I said no point in comparison . end of story ..
This is a GS and I'd back fed over djoker vs rafa in a GS , ANY GS ... period ..
rafa has aways got the better of djoker when it mattered the most , even on HC ...hitman pretty much nailed it !
what a load of cr*p... he was just inconsistent at AO 2006 ... probably because of the injury he had towards the end of the season in 2005 .. maybe he didn't get enough practice ..it had nothing to do with him under-estimating baghdatis ...
face it, either you didn't watch/follow it to say gonzo didn't play decently ....secondly you couldn't even bother checking the score before speaking BS to discredit fed :roll:
rafa was also down 2 sets to 1 to both petz and haase in this year's wimby so ?
I just said he was a good player, not a huge threat ... which is why I said fed's 2003 wimb draw was relatively easy ..
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abmk
Bionic Poster
that was a joke ... You need to have a sense of humor to understand that though !
jeez, I wonder what you'd think about mcenroe/connors/nastatse kind of guys if you hate federer coming across as arrogant in some of his interviews ... you'd probably pull your hair apart :lol:
Sharpshooter
Banned
Man that's awesome! Wish I could've been there.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I do Wrestlemania every year! His match was not very good. Shawn Michaels as always steals the show. I think he might refree the Undertaker match this year, especially if Brock Lesner can get out of his UFC contract to come over to Wrestlemania for the match. However, UFC are refusing him a release on the contract, since he still has one fight left, despite losing te UFC title to Cain Velasquez a few months back.
Sharpshooter
Banned
Yeah so one tough match each. How can you call AO06 harder?
They had only played once before Wim09 in a GS and that was Murray's first final so of course he was going to be nervous and if you actually watch that match you could see that Murray played nowhere near his best. AO 2010 didn't even happen yet at the time.
So he pulled out of Wimbledon because he was scared right? Or maybe he just couldn't be bothered playing it. Or perhaps he hurt his knee when he went to bed.
Yeah I agree he would've probably lost to them, but you can never be sure...
Not every opponent but most of the early round opponents he has beat before they even walk on court and he knows that.
depends on how you interpret it. I thinkRafa and Fed have had many great matches against each other and far from very few.
That's false. USO is the fastest GS surface therefore it is easier to gain cheaper points off the serve esp after the grass gets worn at Wim.
Yes but on his day he is a pretty damn good grass court player. He pushed Rafa to the limit in 2008 Queen's.
Yes Ancic this great lawyer, I mean player who's so hard to beat. I'm amazed anyone's beaten this great champion lawyer.
Well out of those I listed he played Rafa, Soderling, Berdych and of course Roddick. He hasn't lost to Soderling at Wim but he has lost to both Rafa and Berdy. He hasn't played Djoko or Murray so there's no point speculating on whether he would or wouldn't have trouble against them on that surface.
Yeah because Fed has such a good record against him in GS's now doesn't he? Oh wait...
Rafa gets the better of just about everyone in the top 10 when it matters. Who has a winning h2h record against him in GS's in the top 10?
You do realise you can say crap right? Anyways you believe that he was inconsistent I'll believe that he had an easy draw and still kind of struggled against guys he would normally belt.
I couldn't remember. Big deal. Fact is he had no trouble after the first set so to consider a nervous Gonzo tough is ludicrous. His forehand was visibly off that day because he wasn't fully focused due to the moment of being in his first GS final.
Big difference being down 2 sets to 1 than being down 2 sets to love pal. Especially when the 2-1 down guy is Rafa and the 2-0 down guy is scud.
No you said he had 2 tough opponents in Roddick and scud. Not the kind of words which imply he had an easy draw now are they? Face it, you're so full of shi.t you really make a case for how each and every opponent Fed faced in any GS final was extremely tough but Rafa's were easy. IF you said something like Fed's 07 USO draw was tough I'd agree 100% but you don't want to admit that Fed skated through many GS's.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
umm, because haas/baghdatis played decent tennis ? no one else in rafa's draw did apart from djoker ...anyways it still was a relatively easy draw as I said before
of course, I saw the USO 2008, it was a combination of murray's nerves and federer playing well that resulted in the lopsided score .. what happened in AO 2010 again ?* that too on HC ... this was the grass at wimby
* yes, it was after wimby 2009, but why do you think it happened on slow HC ?
may have had minor issues at best ... it was more the mental scars
ok, fine
true in some cases, but that is what happens when a player is dominant. Doesn't mean he wasn't challenged or not in some trouble, does it ?
agassi USO 2004,haas AO 2006,tipsarevic AO 2008,andreev USO 2008, berdych AO 2009,haas FO 2009 - these are just the 5-setters
I can count 4 - wim 07,08, rome 2006 and AO 2009 ... if we count AO 2009, you could argue even wim 2004 F b/w fed/roddick could be there ...but these are 2 ATGs ... how many great matches can you normally find b/w a great player and a good player ?
incorrect on the basis of these 2 reasons:
a) inconsistent bounces ( though much lesser than pre-2001) at wimby vs consistent bounces at the USO
b) HC field is much deeper than the field on grass , quality of returning is generally lower at wimby than at the USO
yes, but that's 2008 , not 2009 .. he seemed comfortable on grass then, not so in 2009 at any stage
ancic was actually playing decent tennis then, unlike youzhny and verdasco who were true walkovers this year at the USO!
there is no point ? Well then why the hell did you bring up the point that federer was lucky not to face anyone in the top 5 at wimby ? LOL ! If you'd mentioned only rafa, I'd have moved on ...
name one occasion when djoker got the better of rafa when it mattered ? fed has 2 wins over him in GS , unlike djoker who has zero and taken only 2 sets in 5 matches ( 1 set in 4 before the USO )
fed also got him thrice at the YEC , biggest event outside the slams ( djoker got him once there, but didn't matter because he didn't qualify and rafa wouldn't have , even if he'd won )
who denied that he struggled ? All I am saying is it was due to his inconsistency and not because he was over-confident
it wasn't off, just negated by fed's defense ...though I agree, it wasn't as good as it was in the previous two matches ... nevertheless , he played fairly decent tennis unlike berdych who played cr*p ...
All I implied by that is even players life rafa can't coast through the draw, so why would you expect scud to do it ?
I said 2 good opponents in rod and scud , not tough... go read it again ....If I said two tough opponents, I wouldn't have said it was a relatively easy draw ... learn to read !!!!!!
FYI, I said rafa's USO 2010 was easy until the finals , djoker is a worthy opponent... when did I say all of rafa's draws were easy ? You are the one full of delusions and insecure ...
Go and read some of the threads in this forum , before almost every event, you'd get comments from the *******s saying how easy fed's draw was .. regardless of how easy/tough it was .....
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Sharpshooter
Banned
Haas got killed man, Fed easily won the first 2 sets then got comfortable and that's why Haas was able to sneak a couple of sets. Look at the fifth set, Fed knew he couldn't afford to let his mind wonder and he went b ack to demolishing him. Bagdad played **** after the first set and a half, doesn't make it a tough match at all. Face it AO06 was not a tougher tournament than the 2010 USO. Davy is never a GS threat he's never won one not even close and Djoko has, he's been in 3 finals and won an AO he is far tougher to handle than Davydenko.
"What do you mean this was the grass at Wimby"? What a load of shi.t! Sorry pal two different occasions and two different surfaces are the AO10 and W09. You can't say that Murray would've lost to Fed at Wimby based on the AO10 result that's hogwash.
Again that's another load of shi.t! Rafa is a fighter and even you cannot deny him that there is no way he would've wimped out of Wimbledon, Rafa is very strong mentally that's why Fed's his lapdog boy. There was no way he would give up defending his Wimbledon title after working so hard for it for 3 years just because he lost a match at the FO. You've got shi.t floating between your ears to even suggest such a ludicrous thing!
He was in trouble but nothing really threatening except for maybe JMDP.
So 6 matches over the last 7 years. Wow. Haas matches and Tipsarevic matches he seemed off, the others played really well and that's why they pushed him.
And those four would have to be considered in the top matches of the past decade. You say there are very few great matches but there's 4 from just these 2 players.
Fair point on the bounces, but then again even if you do get a consistent bounce at USO the ball still shoots off the court faster and is still therefore harder to return. Plus once the grass is worn the court becomes slower.
But on his day he is a tough opponent on grass and you never know when a player will just hit form. There is no way you can say Djoko would've got belted in 2009 because every match plays different.
Nadal was in hot form and was hitting the ball very cleanly that's wy they looked like walkovers. Haas and Davy would be walkovers for Fed if he'd been playing in hot form too. Ancic was no threat back then, there's a reason he wasn't seeded and that's because he was having a poor year he had a tough struggle in the 2nd round IIRC and in the 4th round it was a walkover after one set and a half. So he was well rested for his quarter final against Henman who was getting old by then too. Didn't do anything more special than Verdasco and Youzhny.
I said no point speculating whether he would or wouldn't have beaten them not whether they would've been tougher than the players Fed had to face. IMO Djoko and/or Murray would've given Fed more problems than players outside the top 5, doesn't mean they would've actually beaten him but their chances are higher because they haven't been in the top 4-5 for the past few years for nothing!
First of all YEC doesn't count - only BO3 there buddy.
Second Fed has played Rafa 8 times at GS level vs Djoko who's only played him 5 times how do you know he won't win the next 3 and have a better record than Fed? Plus remind me how many years it's been since Fed has beaten Rafa at a GS?
He played guys who have NEVER beaten him before on GS apart from Haas back in 2002 AO IIRC. You really couldn't blame him for feeling over-confident.
Again, you can say crAp. Rafa had awesome defense even in early 2007 and he couldn't get near Gonzo's shot making off the forehand side Admit his forehand was way off that day and Fed coasted through after the first set and just move on. You splitting hairs when you compare 2 average performances by players that are expected to perform bad in their first ever GS finals.
Like I said it's a much bigger struggle when you're down 2-0 than 2-1, in fact most 5 setters are from 2-1 situations.
How many times have you said Roddick was tough now you change it to good? Make up your mind. Even though you said good, it still implies that the draw wasn't easy because he had to beat 2 good opponents whereas Rafa had 'walkovers' in the number 12 and 8 seeds plus he had to deal with number 3 in the final. USO 2010 = harder/tougher than Wimby03.
When did I say that you said all of Rafa's draws were easy? I meant his USO opponents vs Fed's opponents from the mentioned GS's that's all. Plus you're lying again because you said Safin>Djokovic without even beginning to consider how stuffed Safin was compared to how fresh Djoko was.
How is this relevant to me?
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
What does it say about Nadal that he lost to his 29 year old lapdog boy at the WTF?
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aphex
Banned
What does it say about Nadal that he lost to his 29 year old lapdog boy at the WTF?
He's into bestiality?
Sharpshooter
Banned
What does it say about Nadal that he lost to his 29 year old lapdog boy at the WTF?
Big deal. 14-8, 6-2 GS says it all. Fed gets his wins here and there but Rafa wins most of them especially the really important ones.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
What does it say about Nadal that he lost to his 29 year old lapdog boy at the WTF?
Same thing it says when he couldn't win a set in 2009 WTF....?
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
The funniest part is that on one hand not-so-sharpshooter makes Fed out to be a tough opponent for Nadal and on the other calls him Nadal's lapdog.
Pretty much tells you everything about his 'arguing' skills' and obviously,the guy dosen't watch tennis.
abmk
Bionic Poster
davydenko played better in AO 2006 QF than djoker did in USO 2010... while djoker is mentally tougher, still the fact that davy played better cannot be ignored IMO ...
what is hogwash is that you thinking murray could've given fed a tougher fight than roddick did or won against an in-form fed on grass ... murray can't take a set of fed on HC, his best surface in GS and you think he'll win against an in-form fed on grass :lol:
again, he'd
just 5 setters, all before SFs, doesn't mean there weren't other matches where he wasn't challenged at all ... again like I said all dominant players have that effect of making the lower ranked ones nervous ... nothing different for federer
as usual skipped over the final part because you didn't have the answer ? :lol: How many great matches have been there b/w a pair consisting of a great player and a good player
aces % per point are clearly higher at wimby, so is holding % ... consistently
he struggled throughout .on grass that year ... besides he wasn
umm, no , nadal wasn't even playing well for the first one and half sets vs verdasco ... verdasco played well for like half a set and played utter cr*p after that
youzhny didn't seem to have a gameplan at all ... the only time he played with conviction was towards the end of the 3rd set when he broke
we were talking specifically about grass there ... if it was HC, I'd have agreed ...
how do we know he won't lose all of the next 3 ? face it, fact is djoker has NEVER beaten nadal when it mattered, fed has ...
as much as the talk about fed being mentally weak against rafa ( true in general ) , djoker is worse when it gets somewhat close ... ALL of his 7 wins against rafa were in straights IIRC
except, it looked only to you that he was over-confident ... I think it had more to do with his injury towards end of 2005
umm, no, consdering you didn't even watch the match and started sprouting sh*t about there being 6-2 sets :roll:, you are the one saying one crappy statement after the other about things you have no clue about
regarding rafa's defense, yes, but he can't/couldn't take time away from the big hitters by taking it on the rise near the baseline as fed can/did ...on most of the occasions, fed takes a lot of time away from the big hitters and gonzo needs some time to set up his FH . fed also approached the net quite a bit
it is but point is even players like rafa have had to struggle at wimby when they won, so scud struggling in a match or two to reach the finals is not surprising
it depends on the context, roddick was tough in wim 2004,09 and USO 2007
yeah, wim 03 was slightly less tougher than USO 2010 considering djoker USO 2010 is the toughest of all those opponents
errr, a load of cr*p again. Go read my post , I said safin in AO 2004< djoker in USO 2010
here again
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5295841&postcount=253
because you were whining about people ( or rather fed fans ) discrediting nadal when the *******s keep on *****ing about how easy fed's draw is every single time !!!!!
Federer-Haas at the 2006 Australian Open is argubly the most one sided 5 set match I have seen (if that makes sense). Federer clowned around in the 3rd and 4th sets but then recovered to win the 5th set easily. I think the match lasted less than 3 hours.
However Davydenko gave Federer a very tough time in their quarter-final. Despite that match 'only' going to 4 sets, I thought that Federer was more in danger of losing that match than he was against Haas.
However Davydenko gave Federer a very tough time in their quarter-final. Despite that match 'only' going to 4 sets, I thought that Federer was more in danger of losing that match than he was against Haas.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
Yeah I think Davy was up a set and a break in that AO QF, and given his rich form around that time it was definitely dangerous.
That was their QF last year. I agree that was Federer's biggest test of his 2010 title win. Davydenko have beaten both Federer and Nadal en-route to winning the title in each of his 2 previous tournament appearaces. Davydenko was on fire when he moved 6-2 4-1 ahead but even then I fully expected Federer to fight back.
I was orignally talking about their Australian Open QF in 2006, when Davydenko served for the 3rd set and had 5 set points to move 2 sets to 1 ahead. Davydenko outplayed Federer for long periods in that 2006 match but Federer hung on.
The French Open semi-final in 2007 between the two was ridiculous. I think Davydenko converted 1 break point out of 11 in the 1st set, served for the 2nd set, and had 3 set points in the 3rd set, but somehow contrived to lose all 3 sets.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
Yep I see. Very entertaining matchup, but yeah always Federer because of the massive gap mentally between them.
Sharpshooter
Banned
Or Rafa played better in USO 2010 final than Fed did in AO06 quarters. Djoko is way tougher than Davy on a GS stage. If Fed's form was like Rafa's at 2010USO then he would've won more comfortably.
Murray has a far better record against Fed than Roddick. He's been in the top 4 for the last few years because he has a more complete game than Roddick. Plus he played pretty well in the 2010 semi, He almost won the second set and was up a break for the majority of the third so he is a fine grass player and he would have every chance to beat Rog at Wimby; especially since Rafa beat Fed, he has been more vulnerable at Wimby because he lost that feeling of invincibility over there.
Wow, don't get too excited and finish what you were going to say.
Where did I say Fed wasn't challenged at all? He was challenged because he wasn't in good form in those matches, if he was most of them would've been over in straights. Fed's poor form doesn't make the draw tough.
Yeah because you'll whinge about the great and good players I choose. We clearly have different opinions on who they are. Roddick has had ONE great match against Fed in 22 attempts, JMDP has already had 2 with a fewer amount of encounters. BTW Delpo is a good player, he doesn't qualify for great just yet.
What about unreturnables? Could you please provide a link with this information? I'd be interested to see it.
Again, don't get too excited and finish what you were going to say.
Yes and when Rafa wasn't playing well, the scoreline was close. When he found his range Verdasco got thumped. This has been my point all along, Fed wasn't sharp against Davy or Haas (FO 09) especially and that's why the score was close, had he played in sharp form like Rafa did for most of the 2010 USO those matches would've been over in straights. So again, Fed's poor form against players ranked outside top 5 doesn't make the draw tough.
Yes because little did he realise that Rafa was a completely different opponent than the one he beat at USO06 quarters.
Could you please provide a link to showcase Fed's success against both Murray and Djoko on grass? You might have trouble finding it because they have NEVER played there. They both have a far greater record against Fed than Roddick and they have both been consistently in the top 4 over the past few years. So specifically about GRASS, yes both Murray and Djoko have a better chance against Fed than anyone bar Nadal. In fact both Murray and Djoko individually have had greater success against Fed than Roddick ever has.
We don't, but at least wait until they have played roughly an equal amount of times before commenting. Both of Fed's wins came against a Nadal that was not the same player we see today. BTW why did you dodge my question? Are you too embarrassed to say that Fed hasn't beaten Rafa at a GS since 2007 Wim which was almost 3.5 years ago?
You seem to conveniently forget that those 7 wins were on HC, meaning he beat him comfortably on that surface. Djokovic had a 6-3 outdoor HC h2h lead against Rafa prior to their final compared to Fed who has/had a 1-3 losing outdoor HC h2h against Rafa. So Djoko was clearly more dangerous.
No, I'm not the only one who believes that Fed gets over-confident before matches that he's the clear favorite to win.
I live in Aus and i watched that match live on channel 7 and it was 4 years ago. I don't like to open up a tab with wikipedia just to check the scores of what you and I both know was an average match. My point was that after the first set Gonzo was history and therefore you cannot consider him a tough opponent for Fed. And yes Fed's game does prevent Gonzo from setting up, but he was missing sitters that he wasn't in the previous two matches.
Fair enough, but it doesn't help your initial argument that scud was a good opponent. He was unseeded in 2003 and played well to beat an Agassi that wasn't the same guy Rafter faced in '00 and '01. After that match he struggled apart from Grosjean who is hardly an accomplished grass/GS player.
So, Roddick went from good in 2003, to tough in 2004, to average in 2005, to shi.t in 2006,2007 and 2008, to tough in 2009 then back to average in 2010 (he had mono)? I thought he was a great grass court player that poses more trouble than anyone other than Rafa. Hardly the case.
So then why argue about the opponents Fed faced in that tourny if you thought it was easier?
That's obviously a typo those greater than - less than signs are right next to each other. You lied because you did not imply that Djoko was a worthy opponent by calling him slightly greater than Safin, he was MUCH tougher than Safin in 04. That 2010 USO semi was not a hard fought 5 setter with 2 very quick sets, plus the final was delayed an extra day and even when it was on there were rain delays during the match so there was no way Djoko was even slightly tired.
Hey I'm posting in this thread, regarding posters in this thread. I'm not one of those guys.
