What is the magic serve ingredient most players miss?

[grizzly4life]

drakulie, thanks for the links..... although i'd argue semantics of snap vs. pronation... i think if you showed a bunch of people that, they'd say it snapped. sure, show an expert and it's pronation. but i think everyone means the same thing when they mention it.

what speed did sampras serve at? does his cutting the ball cut down on his velocity alot? and i'm assuming roddick at 150 mph is hitting alot flatter serve?

 

[Ten_is]

Backscratch position

There is no one secret ingredient. If I would say one it would be this:

Tons of explosion power results from staying loose/relaxed and getting into a very good backscratch position with racket forced vertically down behind the back as low as possible with buttcap facing up.

Uncoil and explode with the knees first. Drive this event with the tricep muscles and have the racket at edge first before pronating will give you tons and tons of racket head speed. Remember, trying to keep your tossing arm straight up as long as possible creates an axis of rotation for your shoulders to get into a very good back scratch position. If your shoulders are facing out and flexed back like a baseball pitcher... watch out!!!

Explode into the shot by whipping that ball hard and fast. The whip effect.

 

[Ten_is]

I'm really liking Novak Djokovic's serve by the way. He is a great example to copy of an effective serve.

 

[theRadical]

using your legs is a huge part of hitting a hard serve. A lot of players try to use all arm, but you need to incorportae your whole body in order to hit hard.

 

[Kevo]

I like to watch the pros serve and try to pick up important elements. In the end everything comes down to that split second contact with the ball. That's basically 3 things. Racquet speed, face angle, and contact point. I was watching Bob Bryan play singles during davis cup and he kept hitting this really great slice serve out wide that was terribly difficult to return, and sometimes totally unreturnable. I paused and stepped through his motion a few times, and saw basically what should have been obvious, but it was helpful to see it. He looked like he was slicing a tomato from the side. His racquet face was pretty much perpendicular to the baseline and the contact point was on the side of the ball. In practice Monday night, during a doubles match, I tried it and was shocked to hit an ace into the side fence on the first one I tried. The second and third ones didn't quite work as well, but I really loved that first one. I will definitely be practicing that one again next chance I get.

 

[drakulie]

using your legs is a huge part of hitting a hard serve. A lot of players try to use all arm, but you need to incorportae your whole body in order to hit hard.

I agree the legs are important. However, studies have shown using your legs only add up to about 3-5 mph on your serve.

I believe Tennis Mastery spoke about this issue in either this or another thread. EasiTennis also has studies on this subject.

 

[Leoboomanu]

try 2-4g leadtape wrapped around at the top of the handle(where we tape the grips) to your existing set-up... (waiver)take it off if you don't feel it's better hohoho...

 

[chunlimeyers]

Ok, and surely more than my , 2 cents. I have a big, powerfull serve, not sure how fast it is. However, the real keys I work on when it is off, is, my right leg(I am righty). And, good ole goofy Lipton Commercial guy, Vic Braden, said, "You have to decelerate this mass, and accellerate that mass".. Or something like that. But, that still sits in my head. With the left shoulder has high as it can be while my right is as low as it can be, I push has hard as i can off my RIGHT foot, then hip, then drive my left shoulder down as the power in my right already built helps power my right shoulder UP. This is called the "biomechanical chain", and takes years to develop properly. Now, the arm?.. it is as loose as i can get it!.. As, basically, all the power i have developed is actually from my asterick, and my core(which all sports is key). It does help to actually get the ball in that i am 6 foot 2 and weigh 190 plus pounds. Yet, all the mass i have, plus my 13 ounce k90(used to be tour 90), gets transferred into that ball. Another trick is i only grip the racquet with thumb and ring finger and build up the bottom of my grip to allow maximum loose swingspeed without messing up my paint job on the ground. Only the PATH that i need my arm to travel changes and possibly my grip depending on what serve I am hitting. However, the basics of power don't change, and, everything that gets timed from the "trophy position" is ingrained, and, yes, takes much time to master exploding or 'accelerating that mass' into the ball. Yet, i hope that has cleared up the major differences. You can toss the ball 8 feet in front of you, and if you armswing, you will get only soo much mph. Remember, if i stood 8 feet behind the baseline, i could still power a ball, and would be going the same speed as my normal spot at the baseline. The contact point is only determined by ones height and the distance back they are from the net. Oh, and just one more fine point. The "hip forward", meaning the left hip, is only to balance the body and get ur asterick under you and allow the left shoulder highest and right shoulder lowest, and the right leg naturally bends and coil loads. Hope this helps, and if it does, hope you don't live near me, haha.

 

[35ft6]

Not sure I agree with that. I have certainly practiced my serve more than any other shot and my shoulder problems are probably in part due to having hit 200 serves in a session a few times too many. I know many other club players who practice their serve a lot as well.

I'm talking about the people who DON'T serve baskets of balls, which I'm sure is the majority. Many people HAVE done it before, but not on a consistent basis as a part of their set routine. Most people practice groundstrokes the most, then volleys, and most of their serving and overhead practice is done during warmups and match play. Just my observation. Don't have statistics to back this up.

 

[travlerajm]

I'm talking about the people who DON'T serve baskets of balls, which I'm sure is the majority. Many people HAVE done it before, but not on a consistent basis as a part of their set routine. Most people practice groundstrokes the most, then volleys, and most of their serving and overhead practice is done during warmups and match play. Just my observation. Don't have statistics to back this up.

There have been a couple of years where I used to serve lots of balls on a daily basis. Those are the years that my serve was really really big and a reliable weapon. These days, I don't have much free time to hang out at the courts and serve balls, and my serve isn't that spectacular right now.

 

[Micky]

The whip effect.

Hola Ten_is,

I am really amazed by the tons of explanations around a good serve. But eventually, once you have a good serving motion and a good serving "NOTION"...you will discover the beauty of "THE WHIP EFFECT".

Damn...I love mister Nick Bollettieri. And that "WHIP EFFECT" is not only good for serving...it is good for your killer forehand and for your killer backhand and for your killer whatever.

The coolest thing I found after understanding "THE WHIP EFFECT" was that I would get less tired. Yes, shooting rockets and feeling awesome.

Whip it...whip it good. jejeje.

 

[oldhacker]

hi drakulie - I am no where near good enough to be able to give a valid opinion on that in depth discussion. Although I would say a lot of the debate seems to be hot air over definitions which seems rather unnecessary as 'pronation' is without doubt turn the hand from palm up to palm down - a rotational movement which is performed by the forearm rather than the wrist. I would never call this 'wrist snap' but if others do that is up to them. To me wrist snap is the flexing of the wrist from a laid back (palm up when forearm is in the vertical) position so that the hand moves in a hinge / snap fashion towards the forearm. To me the controlled movement in serving and forehand is the pronation through contact with the ball. As the wrist is 'laid' back in the 'ready to fire' position for both the serve and forehand it may also flex as a result as the result of the forces acting on the loose arm (if you are lucky enough to be able to hit loose) but I would never say it is a concious movement or one which a player should try to force. Whereas I am finding that thinking about the timing and extent and speed of pronation is certaing helping me to get pace on my serve despite having a shot shoulder.

I couldn't agree more. Check out this thread where the "wrist issue" is discussed in great detail in both the forehand and serve. Even when shown example after example of high speed video proof, people still get it wrong. the video links start at post # 26.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=127448&page=2

 

[drakulie]

oldhacker, nice exlplanation. I agree some people get the terminology mixed up or use the words interchangeably (which I addressed). However, many people insist there is an actual forward snapping of the wrist thru contact, and pronation is something different. In the serve it gets a bit more diffifcult because the wrist is definitely laid back (ready to fire position as you call it), and then at contact is at neutral (in a straight line with the forearm), so it appears the server has "snapped" their wrist. However, this is a just a natural result of the forward force of the swing, and at this point (or before) the forearm rolls over (pronation). The wrist definitely does not continue to "snap" forward at contact, rather is in a straight line while the forearm pronates outward to the right.

 

[superbooga]

I think a long, smooth swing is what most players lack. There are a number of factors that shorten the swing: a toss that is not high and in front enough, lack of rotation, and not reaching the backscratch position.

I've noticed that if I don't drop my hitting shoulder far enough, thus shortening the swing, I lose a lot of power. No matter how hard I try to swing, it won't be as fast as if I lower my hitting shoulder more and take a relaxed swing.

 

[zapvor]

Hola Ten_is,

I am really amazed by the tons of explanations around a good serve. But eventually, once you have a good serving motion and a good serving "NOTION"...you will discover the beauty of "THE WHIP EFFECT".

Damn...I love mister Nick Bollettieri. And that "WHIP EFFECT" is not only good for serving...it is good for your killer forehand and for your killer backhand and for your killer whatever.

The coolest thing I found after understanding "THE WHIP EFFECT" was that I would get less tired. Yes, shooting rockets and feeling awesome.

Whip it...whip it good. jejeje.

hahahah i make these mother-f**kers fly 'cross the At-lantic