What is the most gut-like string that's NOT gut?

My two Origin fullbeds - I have a Head Graphene Extreme XT Lite 100 that now weighs 10.8oz and is about 1pt HL at about 60RA. It is strung 64/64 and it swings nice for a light weight. I took a 50RA Wilson NFury 100 and got it to 11.4oz at about 3pts HL. This one takes some effort in getting the ball moving if you don't swing fast. RA50 might be too soft for this string. I'm waiting to get my next batch of Origin to try out in my stiff RA 63 PCG100LB chopped to 27." I want to fiddle with tension in my PCGs, the others are fun project rackets.
 
Hi Toby, thanks for that info. I am currently playing with a Tonic Gut 15L x Volkl Classic SynGut 16 hybrid set-up in my Prince Classic Graphite 100 (normally one of my back-up racquets). I think I have it strung up a bit too tight for this racquet (tried 60x56 first and that was too tight, so I cut out the cross and re-strung a fresh half set of the same string at 48. Still a little tight/stiff, but better). I've played with only this racquet in the last week, and the last 2 times I played with it, my elbow wasn't as sore afterwards as it had been recently playing with my Volkl VS8 315. Ironically, I like the feel of the Volkl quite a bit better than the PCG when playing, but afterwards my arm was definitely hurting more than after playing with the PCG. My shoulder was a little *tired* after playing 3 sets with the PCG because of the additional weight (compared to the Volkl), but it wasn't sore and tender, nor were my pectoral muscles very sore like they have been on the side of my playing arm.

Each time I demo'd the TT100P, I was demoing other racquets also at the same time, so I couldn't say for sure how the TT100P by itself affected my arm, but I took notes to the effect that it felt noticeably flexy. I demo'd it with both fully poly and full multi and it felt flexy with both, though it felt more dampened/muted with the multi than with the poly. With the poly, it was a little...."pingy". I got very good spin with the full poly, but I also got surprisingly good spin with the full multi, especially for an 18x20 stringbed. I'd say I got a little better spin with full multi in the TT100P 18x20 than I normally get with full multi in my Volkl VS8 315 16x18, and definitely better spin than I'm getting with this Gut/SynGut hybrid in my PCG 100.

The Gut/SynGut hybrid in my PCG has the Gut mains moving all over the place, not really snapping back at all like the Gut/Poly hybrid in one of my other racquets. I'm thinking about cutting out the SynGut crosses and replacing them with Cream crosses and see how that is, if my arm will tolerate it in the PCG and if I get better/easier spin.

I ordered some strings yesterday and one that I ordered was the Iso Control Classic, as I definitely want to try it out in some fashion in the near future. Do the Gut mains move around a lot in your Gut/Iso Classic set-up, or do they snap back and stay straight?.

Thanks.
Hi ashridge

with gut / isospeed the strings does not move - I would state that for string movements it is the best gut / multi combo I have tried, better that Origin, Velocity etc. I only use the processional classic as I like thin gauge, I am sure that the control version will be very fine for you.

Gut / Cream played too stiff for me.

To be a little nerdy and go to the string database at TWU looking at ref tension and stiffness - you will se that all strings will have higher stiffness as tension increase, only two strings will have about the same stiffness:

1. Natural Gut - you can string this string higher and it will still play soft. Here is an example:

Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 90.9
Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 98.9
Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 96.6

2 Isospeed professional and Control classic:

Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 40 stiffness 133.2
Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 51 stiffness 133.7
Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 60 stiffness 133.7

I think that can be one of the reasons that these two strings goes so well together in a hybrid - just my own theory.

3. Other string examples:

Your string:
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 142.3
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 173.7
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 195.5

A soft poly like Volkl V-Torque:
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 144.6
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 181.7
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 201.7

This is kind of the normal behavior of string stiffness contra tension.

I hope this can help

Please report back when you try it out.

Cheers, Toby
 
Ron,

The gut you played with as junior is much improved today. The humidity doesn't affect the strings as much until the courts are basically wet. very wet.

If you played juniors with wooden frames you are north of 50 years old. I am 51 and juniors weren't using wooden frames in the late 70s and early 80s as Prince, Pro Kennex, and other all had non wooden frames in the early 80s. By the late 70s, those wooden frames were becoming fossils.

I live, play and string for players in hot & humid Charleston SC which is surrounded by three large rivers (four if you count the Stono River) and the Atlantic Ocean. So lots of water. Today's quality made gut last much longer than a few hours. Pacific Tough Gut 1.30mm lasted me more than 2 months in a hybrid. I break 1.30mm Cyclone Tour in 5-6 weeks.

A local 4.5 under 50 uses Gut/Lux rough. He gets longer than a month with his stIcks. I have clients who have Natural Gut last then more than 3 months who play almost exclusively on Har Tru. The 4.5 guy's home courts are I'On Mt Plesant SC (Charleston suburb)-- 7 Har Tru courts and 1 red clay. There are 13 Har Tru at Family Circle, home of the WTA Volvo Cup Open while LTP in Mt Pleaant has 9 Har Tru courts. Nautral Gut isn't an issue still the courts are wet from playing in extremely wet conditions that close hard courts. i have played with gut/poly on Har Tru courts that are damp from watering many times. As long as
YES my gut / iso hybrid last a long time. It is the iso that gives in first and starts to fray heavily, the I cut the cross out and replace with a new iso going 1kg down - it is like a new setup (I wax the gut before reinstalling the cross). Gut will last for a loooong time even on clay. This is my experience. I am about 5.0 baseline player, hit ok hard and with a lot of spin.

I however change to a FB multi if the weather condition is wet or the court is wet - good to know that gut also will last in wet condition.
 
Hi ashridge

with gut / isospeed the strings does not move - I would state that for string movements it is the best gut / multi combo I have tried, better that Origin, Velocity etc. I only use the processional classic as I like thin gauge, I am sure that the control version will be very fine for you.

Gut / Cream played too stiff for me.

To be a little nerdy and go to the string database at TWU looking at ref tension and stiffness - you will se that all strings will have higher stiffness as tension increase, only two strings will have about the same stiffness:

1. Natural Gut - you can string this string higher and it will still play soft. Here is an example:

Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 90.9
Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 98.9
Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 96.6

2 Isospeed professional and Control classic:

Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 40 stiffness 133.2
Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 51 stiffness 133.7
Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 60 stiffness 133.7

I think that can be one of the reasons that these two strings goes so well together in a hybrid - just my own theory.

3. Other string examples:

Your string:
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 142.3
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 173.7
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 195.5

A soft poly like Volkl V-Torque:
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 144.6
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 181.7
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 201.7

This is kind of the normal behavior of string stiffness contra tension.

I hope this can help

Please report back when you try it out.

Cheers, Toby
Good nerdy ... that is interesting. Actually pretty amazing any string could have that small a change from 40 to 60.

I noticed the cream behind gut mains also. Sad. Injured elbows seek out string stats. :D
 
I have NG x ZX Pro in a PCG100 and a POG 107. I have NG x Velocity in a Wilson Burn 16x19.

Wilson Nat Gut 16 x Velocity 16 in a 100, 16x19 doesn't move around too much. I like this combo better than Nat Gut x Zyex, but tension combo factors could be an issue or rackets.

Wilson Nat Gut 16 x Zyex Pro 17 doesn't move around much in either the 107 or 100.

I'm waiting for my reel of Origin to try some Wilson Nat Gut x Origin.
I tried all of these combos, but IMO isospeed performs the best in regards to string movement. I even had the combo in POG 107 and 100 too :)

Gut / ZX is interesting but too powerful for me, also the ZX cuts into the gut too fast for my liking. What tension do you use for Gut / ZX.

In the 107 I would string the Gut / Isospeed 28kg / 30kg - yes very high tension but still plays soft.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
YES my gut / iso hybrid last a long time. It is the iso that gives in first and starts to fray heavily, the I cut the cross out and replace with a new iso going 1kg down - it is like a new setup (I wax the gut before reinstalling the cross). Gut will last for a loooong time even on clay. This is my experience. I am about 5.0 baseline player, hit ok hard and with a lot of spin.

I however change to a FB multi if the weather condition is wet or the court is wet - good to know that gut also will last in wet condition.
I do the same thing with my Head Hawk poly crosses after a month. Flip the frame, six point mount, cut out crosses and restring the new crosses on opposite side of the gut from the first gut / Hawk setup.

When the balls are damp is when you don't want to to use Natural Gut.
 
Gut / ZX is interesting but too powerful for me, also the ZX cuts into the gut too fast for my liking. What tension do you use for Gut / ZX.
In the POG 107 I used Wilson Nat Gut in mains at 29kg x 27kg Zyex 17 crosses; in the PCG 100 27kg/27kg. I'm not overly fond of how either plays so am going to take the PCG 100, cut the Zyex out and install Wilson Revolve. If that plays better I may do the same with the 107. I'll still have a couple of half sets of Wilson NG 16 to fool around with.

I am an over 60 playe just having fun trying out strings in various rackets.
 
The only way I'll play fullbed nat gut is in a 65" wood racket. If NG x Origin plays like fullbed NG in a 100" 16x19 I'll cut the Origin out and replace it with something else. It's a good thing I found Origin at a price that it will only cost me about $6.00 a half set.
Ok this thread has got some legs to it. I just want to report that Ashaway Kevlar + Origin with a differential is essentially GOD MODE, by that I mean that if you've got the fitness and knees to get to a ball you can obliterate it (and still feel your arm fine afterwards!)

Going to grab that UK origin as well.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
In the POG 107 I used Wilson Nat Gut in mains at 29kg x 27kg Zyex 17 crosses; in the PCG 100 27kg/27kg. I'm not overly fond of how either plays so am going to take the PCG 100, cut the Zyex out and install Wilson Revolve. If that plays better I may do the same with the 107. I'll still have a couple of half sets of Wilson NG 16 to fool around with.

I am an over 60 playe just having fun trying out strings in various rackets.
Yes Nat gut + zyez just seems like too powerful of a combo for a modern racquet.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
In the POG 107 I used Wilson Nat Gut in mains at 29kg x 27kg Zyex 17 crosses; in the PCG 100 27kg/27kg. I'm not overly fond of how either plays so am going to take the PCG 100, cut the Zyex out and install Wilson Revolve. If that plays better I may do the same with the 107. I'll still have a couple of half sets of Wilson NG 16 to fool around with.

I am an over 60 playe just having fun trying out strings in various rackets.
I am +55 and also just having fun trying out different strings. I have 4 frames of TT100P, and I have this method trying out multis:

1. ref tension 22kg (strung with constant pull Wise 286 head) as a starting point for all multis. Then I monitor the tension loss with my ERT 300 over a period. I am interested in feel, arm comfort and power. I hate string movement so this is also a large factor.

2. if I like the string in FB then I might try it as a cross string for gut. starting point 24kg/23kg. Gut/isospeed 24kg/25kg due to large initial tension loss from iso.

I had to quit testing out poly as I got arm problems.

I love my gut/isospeed setup and this is my reference setup. So far this is the best gut/multi setup even better for my liking than any gut/poly setup.

For FB multi this is my favorite so far: HDX Tour and Kirchbaum Touch Multi. I also like X-One, Velocity and multifeel but strings move too much.

I got a reel of ZX because of the hype here, so I guess I will try out some different setup with ZX and Multi. Gut/ZX did not work for me, if I strung the ZX at higher tension like 25kg og 27kg the combo played stiff - very strange as the string is suppose to be very soft.

Please share your best setup so far, I still have some POG 107 frames.

Cheers,

Toby
 
Toby, thanks, that is great info. Amazing how both Gut and Iso Classic have basically the same stiffness over such a large range of tension. I can't wait to get my order of Iso Control Classic in and test it out as a cross for Gut.

I'm not that impressed so far with the Tonic/Volkl Classic SynGut hybrid in my PCG 100. It seems like it's easier on my elbow than fullbed Head Velocity in my Volkl VS8 315, but it's not that comfortable to hit with, feels pretty tight at 60x48. Gut mains are moving around like crazy on the Volkl SG crosses. I have Tonic/Outlast (poly) at 60x45 in my Prince Graphite II and it feels more comfortable while I'm playing (though my elbow hurts after hitting very hard 1st serves), though that may have something to do with the Graphite II being a more powerful racquet than the PCG 100, and not just because the Gut mains are snapping back nice on the Outlast poly crosses. I'm very intrigued by what you say about the Gut mains not moving around on Iso crosses. Can't wait to try that for myself.

How does the Iso Classic play as a fullbed?

I was looking at the strings you said you like as FB multi, HDX Tour and Kirschbaum Touch. You said they don't move as much as, say, Velocity? Do you feel like you get a little better spin as a result? What kind of durability do you get with those in a fullbed (hours of play before breaking)? Those strings are a little higher $, are they worth it?

Hi ashridge

with gut / isospeed the strings does not move - I would state that for string movements it is the best gut / multi combo I have tried, better that Origin, Velocity etc. I only use the processional classic as I like thin gauge, I am sure that the control version will be very fine for you.

Gut / Cream played too stiff for me.

To be a little nerdy and go to the string database at TWU looking at ref tension and stiffness - you will se that all strings will have higher stiffness as tension increase, only two strings will have about the same stiffness:

1. Natural Gut - you can string this string higher and it will still play soft. Here is an example:

Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 90.9
Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 98.9
Babolat Tonic+ 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 96.6

2 Isospeed professional and Control classic:

Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 40 stiffness 133.2
Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 51 stiffness 133.7
Isospeed professional 17 ref tension 60 stiffness 133.7

I think that can be one of the reasons that these two strings goes so well together in a hybrid - just my own theory.

3. Other string examples:

Your string:
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 142.3
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 173.7
Volkl Classic SynGut 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 195.5

A soft poly like Volkl V-Torque:
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 40 stiffness 144.6
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 51 stiffness 181.7
Volkl V-Torque 16 ref tension 60 stiffness 201.7

This is kind of the normal behavior of string stiffness contra tension.

I hope this can help

Please report back when you try it out.

Cheers, Toby
 
Another vote for Babolat Origin. Not only does it approach natural gut in playability, it also approaches it in price! LOL
Mantis Comfort synthetic is my cure for TE(and Donnay) and plays gut like....full bed.... never poly......I'd rather play than be poly cool....And while I'm at it...why do players need poly rather than apply technique to cure their hitting long?...….. I unwittingly used it when I came back to tennis and had frames string with this new miracle string that never broke or frayed...Guess what...TE....big time...
 
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Mantis Comfort synthetic is my cure for TE(and Donnay) and plays gut like....full bed.... never poly......I'd rather play than be poly cool....And while I'm at it...why do players need poly rather than apply technique to cure their hitting long?....Admittedly I never used it when I played (in the seventies) .... I unwittingly used it when I came back to tennis and had frames string with this new miracle string that never broke...Guess what...TE....big time...
The biggest problem with Mantis Comfort is durability. It only lasts me 3-5 hours at most.


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The biggest problem with Mantis Comfort is durability. It only lasts me 3-5 hours at most.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For me the biggest problem is the smell, cant stand it and it seem to not go away, had to cut them out. Anyone else encountered this problem with MCS.
 
Mantis Comfort synthetic is my cure for TE(and Donnay) and plays gut like....full bed.... never poly......I'd rather play than be poly cool....And while I'm at it...why do players need poly rather than apply technique to cure their hitting long?....Admittedly I never used it when I played (in the seventies) .... I unwittingly used it when I came back to tennis and had frames string with this new miracle string that never broke...Guess what...TE....big time...
Because no matter how you change your technique, poly will always give you more spin so it will allow you to hit bigger.
 
Because no matter how you change your technique, poly will always give you more spin so it will allow you to hit bigger.
When I switched from poly to synthetic multifilament, one of the things I noticed is that I started hitting the ball a lot harder. When I was using poly, I was holding back because my elbow would hurt every time I hit a hard ball. When that was no longer happening, I subconsciously started hitting a lot harder because I no longer felt pain.
 
Hard to hit bigger with an injured elbow, due to the use of poly strings. :)
Not everybody has elbow issues because of poly. Most people have issues because they string it at 60 pounds on stiff Babolats or because they keep hitting with it after it goes dead or even because of bad technique. Most actually because of bad tecnique.

People under 4.0 shouldn't use it anyways, it is not for everyone.

Also keep in mind that somebody that got hurt from poly will come in here and start a thread "Poly killed my arm" but you won't see somebody that has been playing for it forever start a thread " I've been playing with poly for 10 years and my arm is fine" ! :):)
 
When I switched from poly to synthetic multifilament, one of the things I noticed is that I started hitting the ball a lot harder. When I was using poly, I was holding back because my elbow would hurt every time I hit a hard ball. When that was no longer happening, I subconsciously started hitting a lot harder because I no longer felt pain.
Ramon, I am glad you no longer get pain! But the fact that you got pain from playing with Poly doesn't mean that everybody should stay away from it!

I have a friend that plays USTA 5.0 and has played sectionals too. Very high level player. He always used to play Multi and/or Syn gut hybrids. I sold him one of my IGRMP strung with alu rough. His shots are so much bigger now, he says he will never go back to anything other than poly.
 
Ramon, I am glad you no longer get pain! But the fact that you got pain from playing with Poly doesn't mean that everybody should stay away from it!

I have a friend that plays USTA 5.0 and has played sectionals too. Very high level player. He always used to play Multi and/or Syn gut hybrids. I sold him one of my IGRMP strung with alu rough. His shots are so much bigger now, he says he will never go back to anything other than poly.
I don’t think anyone here questions the benefits of poly for high level players who can tolerate it. I wouldn’t have been using poly in the first place if I didn’t think it was helping my game at some point. However, this thread was about gut-like strings. Someone who’s looking for gut-like strings probably isn’t looking for poly.


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I don’t think anyone here questions the benefits of poly for high level players who can tolerate it. I wouldn’t have been using poly in the first place if I didn’t think it was helping my game at some point. However, this thread was about gut-like strings. Someone who’s looking for gut-like strings probably isn’t looking for poly.


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I didn't suggest poly as a replacement for gut. I simply responded to the post's 116 question "And while I'm at it...why do players need poly rather than apply technique to cure their hitting long?"
 
I didn't suggest poly as a replacement for gut. I simply responded to the post's 116 question "And while I'm at it...why do players need poly rather than apply technique to cure their hitting long?"
You're correct, and I'd say we are all in agreement here. Poly does give you more spin regardless of how good or bad your technique is. If I was younger, and a better player, and I had no arm problems from poly I'd probably be using it. What I don't quite understand is the number of people using poly who will never play at a highly competitive level. I think the worst part about poly is that its playability and arm-friendliness both decline rather quickly. Most of the pros only use it for one set, and that's what it was originally designed for. I know they designed Copolys so they can last longer, but then you still have to remember to re-string them after about 10 hours if you expect to get good playability out of them, and a lot of people forget to do that.
 
I tried all of these combos, but IMO isospeed performs the best in regards to string movement. I even had the combo in POG 107 and 100 too :)

Gut / ZX is interesting but too powerful for me, also the ZX cuts into the gut too fast for my liking. What tension do you use for Gut / ZX.

In the 107 I would string the Gut / Isospeed 28kg / 30kg - yes very high tension but still plays soft.
Try the ZX in the mains with MCS or Pro's Pro Hitech Multifibre crosses. It feels like Pacific Classic full bed to me, but tension ZX/multi 3 lbs lower than you would string gut. I used 56/53 lbs, prestretching 3.5" from the ZX. Also I used a drop weight machine which stretched more from the string during tensioning. It will be lower powered than with gut. Go easy tying off ZX.
 
You're correct, and I'd say we are all in agreement here. Poly does give you more spin regardless of how good or bad your technique is. If I was younger, and a better player, and I had no arm problems from poly I'd probably be using it. What I don't quite understand is the number of people using poly who will never play at a highly competitive level. I think the worst part about poly is that its playability and arm-friendliness both decline rather quickly. Most of the pros only use it for one set, and that's what it was originally designed for. I know they designed Copolys so they can last longer, but then you still have to remember to re-string them after about 10 hours if you expect to get good playability out of them, and a lot of people forget to do that.
I agree with everything that you say. For a couple hours poly is the best there is out there if you can take the impact. The problem is that most tennis stores (at least the ones I've been to) won't inform you of the characteristics of each string. They will ask the customer:

-Do you want the best? Gut.
-How much?
-Blabla
-Too expensive. Next.

-Want power? Multi.
-Nah I can generate my own power. Next.

-Want control? Poly
-Yeap that's for me.

Also can you imagine the average store owner/stringer saying to their customer that they need to string every 3 weeks? They'll start running away as fast as possible.
 
I love isospeed control at super low tensions
What tensions are we talking about here ? Are you talking about the classic version that comes in a small yellow reel (1 set) or the new version ?

I am stringing isospeed professional classic at high tension due to high initial tension loss. Could be interesting to try and go the other way.

Cheers, Toby
 
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