What is the problem with my two handed backhand ?

blablavla

Hall of Fame
The title of this thread is a "little" provocative. I have played in tournaments for years and cant remember when somebody had advantage over me on backhand side. Even the best player in Poland in my category (last year he was in top ten in ITF ranking ) did me no harm on that side. Whenever I played against players who used one handed backhand they were forced to use only slice because their backhands had no chance against mine. Maybe the title of this thread should be " Why is my backhand so good if it is so bad ? ".The best verification of the quality of two handed backhand is return of serve. You can watch a lot of my videos from a real play. You cant find even one case when I returned using slice from backhand side. Of course it happens sometimes but only if the ball is not in the reach of two handed backhand. Even on hard courts , on grass and other fast surfaces I use two handed backhand to return serves. As I read your comments most changes you advise for my backhand would inevitably cause more errors in my game. I tested it million times. Probably most of you dont want to be competetive players. You just want to copy technique of the best professionals even if your technique generate more errors. I dont criticize you. It is your choice why you play tennis. But if you want to win more matches and tournaments you should everyday ask why I am so effective though I am a very weak person and my right wrist is injured. If you tried to play using technique you advise with my injured wrist you would in a short time be forced to go to hospital for surgery. But I usually win. It is only possible because my technique more than compensates for my physical limitations.
taking ROS is a very random measure of how good your BH is.

and I for example didn't tell you to change your technique.
what I am telling you, is that your technique works for you, but there are certain flaws, due to which I would not preach it to 100% of amateurs. Especially as their age advances.
and this is what you fail to comprehend, that your success might come IN SPITE of flaws in technique. Perhaps your hand-eye coordination let's you go away with it. Perhaps how you feel the ball. Perhaps something else. But one thing I can tell you for sure, an average amateur, with poor hand-eye coordination, poor feeling of the ball, poor footwork will become an error machine if will try to copy your technique.

and please don't misunderstand, I am not advocating against 2 handed shot on both wings.
if you ask me, amateur tennis is much more about precision and consistency than power.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
As I read your comments most changes you advise for my backhand would inevitably cause more errors in my game.
But I'don't advise any changes to your BH.

The fun part is, despite what you write, your BH is quite solid (rushed situations aside, everyone has them). You prepare coiled and use torso rotation to execute the shot. You are not arming the ball completely as you advocate in writing. Could your BH be more efficient from technical standpoint, and hence more potent? Absolutely. Do you need it? It's always your decision. You rely much more on other strengths than perfect shot making, your current shots serve your current gameplan, and until you face stronger opposition (there always is some if you are not top player of the world) you are not likely feel any need for change.
Now if you want to contribute to other players' development, I believe, it's not techniques but gameplan, decisions, mental state are what you can perfectly cover.
 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Stiff backhand of Djokovic is the last thing we should advise to anybody. The same problem is with backhand of Serena Wiliams. Both tennis players dont need good technique because they are very strong. Usually they stop movement of the racket behind them. It shortens the distance on which the head of the racket is accelerated.
no
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
At amateur level the further the racket is from the body the less control the player has. That is why we shouldnt copy forehands of Federer, Nadal or Dimitrov played with straight arm or backhands of male professionals with straightening the elbow during follow through. Bent left elbow in two handed backhand and bent right elbow in one handed forehand should be the standard at amateur level. Also limiting the movement of right elbow in two handed backhand should be recomended. Of course if you dont play to win matches and tournaments you can copy those famous players.
The hard part about learning to hit a 2hbh is learning to hit a 2hbh ... not the arm positions. It took me many hours/reps on the ball machine to learn a fundamental 2hbh (low to high, rh over right shoulder, racquet taps me on the back). But once I did, I could change arm positions (both backswing and at contact) without much trouble. Not so with grip change ... that would have taken many hours. I hit cont/east bent/straight and have no interest in changing it. I just wanted to see what east sw felt like ... messed swing up immediately. Which is interesting ... because I can roll 1h fh from eastern to weak sw during a point with no issues. I think bent/straight is the best for a rec player to learn ... you get close to the reach of straight/straight ... but feels very solid at contact.

The part that matters in a swing is from slot to contact ... the drop or not, backswing arm positions is relevant only in regards to what works for you timing wise to get to the slot.

What is this mysterious "block" you talk off?

The arm positions that matter are at contact ... read article at bottom from someone that would never teach someone to add resistance to a forward swing. Videos not available unless a member, but you can read the text and understand.

 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
At amateur level the further the racket is from the body the less control the player has. That is why we shouldnt copy forehands of Federer, Nadal or Dimitrov played with straight arm or backhands of male professionals with straightening the elbow during follow through. Bent left elbow in two handed backhand and bent right elbow in one handed forehand should be the standard at amateur level. Also limiting the movement of right elbow in two handed backhand should be recomended. Of course if you dont play to win matches and tournaments you can copy those famous players.
No ... we will celebrate that you are playing good old dude ball (I'm 62 ... I can say this 8-B ) ... give a nod to your tennis IQ and point construction ... overcoming fh limiting injury ... and match results on multiple surfaces. We just can't allow you to uglify rec 2hbhs. 8-B You are good because you are good ... not because of your technique. Rec tennis isn't about power ... so pretty much anything we can control can work.

Question ... is your 2hfh better than your old 1hfh?
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Rec players would gain more control swinging 50% rhs than 50% stroke length. Guiding is a tennis player and golfer control fools gold.

Our arms and hands are coordinated ... our stomach is not ... why would anyone try and teather their arm to their stomach and try and hit a moving tennis ball with their stomach ... or their chest? That extension of left arm (righty) between slot and contact that @travlerajm talks about ... anti-stomach/torso-teathering. That free your arm triangle from torso I talk about ... anti-torso-teathering. The racquet lag (both down and back) ... anti-forearm/racquet angle teathering.

Ever heard of Eye hand coordination? ... ever heard of eye stomach coordination?

A rec 2hbh deserves to be free ... teathering and whips is for a different forum.

8-B
 
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grzewas

Rookie
No ... we will celebrate that you are playing good old dude ball (I'm 62 ... I can say this 8-B ) ... give a nod to your tennis IQ and point construction ... overcoming fh limiting injury ... and match results on multiple surfaces. We just can't allow you to uglify rec 2hbhs. 8-B You are good because you are good ... not because of your technique. Rec tennis isn't about power ... so pretty much anything we can control can work.

Question ... is your 2hfh better than your old 1hfh?
It is difficult to compare my one handed forehand and two handed. I think that if my wrist was not injured and I was as strong as I was over 18 years ago then inside the court and when the ball is within the reach of two handed forehand it would be better but far behind baseline and when the ball if far to my side one handed would be better. That is why I think that the best tennis player in the future will be using both techniques depending on the situation.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I tried out a few cross-handed 2hf’s yesterday when rallying with my opponent after my league match. I hit a few that felt solid, but a few that were terrible with no power and ball sprayed late out to my right. I think it would need some dedicated wall work to get comfortable with it.
 

grzewas

Rookie
I tried out a few cross-handed 2hf’s yesterday when rallying with my opponent after my league match. I hit a few that felt solid, but a few that were terrible with no power and ball sprayed late out to my right. I think it would need some dedicated wall work to get comfortable with it.
I have an advice. When you take the racket back direct the strings to the ground and not to the right. It changes everything. In this video if you activate the subtitles you can read my lesson of two handed forehand.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I tried out a few cross-handed 2hf’s yesterday when rallying with my opponent after my league match. I hit a few that felt solid, but a few that were terrible with no power and ball sprayed late out to my right. I think it would need some dedicated wall work to get comfortable with it.
Pretty much proves a 2hbh stroke is not just the back arm/hand fh. 8-B Anytime someone tells me a 2hbh is a left handed fh ... I say ... cool ... let's see your lh fh video. Even more obvious with 2hfh (I have tried it before). You already have a back arm/hand 1h fh .. should be automatic with just adding the extra hand. LOL
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Pretty much proves a 2hbh stroke is not just the back arm/hand fh. 8-B Anytime someone tells me a 2hbh is a left handed fh ... I say ... cool ... let's see your lh fh video. Even more obvious with 2hfh (I have tried it before). You already have a back arm/hand 1h fh .. should be automatic with just adding the extra hand. LOL
The problem for me was that the top hand reaches across and restricts extension, so I need to use a different swingpath much closer to the body than a regular 1hf. I was sometimes hitting the extension limit before contact, resulting in a dud hit.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
The problem for me was that the top hand reaches across and restricts extension, so I need to use a different swingpath much closer to the body than a regular 1hf. I was sometimes hitting the extension limit before contact, resulting in a dud hit.
Yep ... each arm restricts the other at different places in the 2hbh/fh stroke.

Add to that ... according to Mr Google ... a 150lb person has an eight lb arm. So take your normal one hand FH stroke, then strap 8 lbs on the racquet and try again. Should work fine if 2hfh is just a right handed fh. 8-B Each arm has to carry it's own weight ... no slackers. 8-B
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Yep ... each arm restricts the other at different places in the 2hbh/fh stroke.

Add to that ... according to Mr Google ... a 150lb person has an eight lb arm. So take your normal one hand FH stroke, then strap 8 lbs on the racquet and try again. Should work fine if 2hfh is just a right handed fh. 8-B Each arm has to carry it's own weight ... no slackers. 8-B
Maybe today I will practice a few 2hf’s with the wrist holding technique. But I can’t get too crazy right now because my singles 4.5 league regular season just ended and playoffs start next week.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Maybe today I will practice a few 2hf’s with the wrist holding technique. But I can’t get too crazy right now because my singles 4.5 league regular season just ended and playoffs start next week.
This one of those times friends don't let their friends drive drunk. NEVER change anything right before playoffs.
 

grzewas

Rookie
I think the key with the cross-handed forehand is that the contact point must be further back compared to a 1hf or 2hb. Otherwise there is no room to extend.
The greatest problem is the left hand which blocs the movement of right hand. The solution is simple. You should push the racket more upward than across your body. Right arm should work as Nadal left hand when he hits forehand.
 

grzewas

Rookie
Rec players would gain more control swinging 50% rhs than 50% stroke length. Guiding is a tennis player and golfer control fools gold.

Our arms and hands are coordinated ... our stomach is not ... why would anyone try and teather their arm to their stomach and try and hit a moving tennis ball with their stomach ... or their chest? That extension of left arm (righty) between slot and contact that @travlerajm talks about ... anti-stomach/torso-teathering. That free your arm triangle from torso I talk about ... anti-torso-teathering. The racquet lag (both down and back) ... anti-forearm/racquet angle teathering.

Ever heard of Eye hand coordination? ... ever heard of eye stomach coordination?

A rec 2hbh deserves to be free ... teathering and whips is for a different forum.

8-B
It requires more force to accelerate the racket on a shorter distance. This is why backhands of Djokovic and Serena Williams shouldnt be copied by amateurs and in older categories.
 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
It requires more force to accelerate the racket on a shorter distance. This is why backhands of Djokovic and Serena Williams shouldnt be copied by amateurs and in older categories.
Oh Gregory ... don't use Djokovic's 2hbh in the same sentence as Serena's 2hbh. Other than Djokovic's range of motion in his unit turn, Djoker's 2hbh is a fantastic model for a rec 2hbh.

Just say no to chicken wing 2hbhs.
 

grzewas

Rookie
The greatest problem is the left hand which blocs the movement of right hand. The solution is simple. You should push the racket more upward than across your body. Right arm should work as Nadal left hand when he hits forehand.
This thread slowly transfoms to the thread about two handed forehand. For the last 5 years I have been looking for the best two handed forehand. I tested many kinds( used by professional players) and found several new ones. As I wrote before the greatest problem in two handed forehand is the left arm blocking the movement of right hand. In my opinion the best two handed forehand for amateurs and for professional players is the forehand of Peng Shuai. You can see that she finishes the stroke with her right hand above left shoulder and the head of the racket almost on her back. But if you try to copy her you will see that your right hand doesnt go that far because it is blocked earlier by left arm. If you move your left hand back at the level of your chest ,or even below, your elbow goes back the first. At some point it cant go back any farther so the hand ends its movement about 40 cm in front of left elbow ( length of forearm) . Left hand can be moved farthest back at the level slightly above left shoulder. Then it will be above the left elbow. So if you want to avoid blocking your movement by left arm your left hand should quickly rise to the level at least of the shoulders. It means that left hand at the begining of the stroke (just before the ball touches the strings) should go upward and not across the body. So your right hand should go foreward but also upward in first phase (like Nadal forehand). Only when both hands are at shoulder level they can begin to move across the body. At this level, the left elbow does not block the movement of the left hand.
 
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3loudboys

Hall of Fame
Whilst admittedly being confused by some of the suggestions made in this thread I've always thought that Djokers 2hbh was a good model for players to model. It's a simple unit turn and take back with face closed, drop and drive. The angle of the racket face is taken care of so less need for complicated wrist work. Engage body, legs and extend to target.

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grzewas

Rookie
Whilst admittedly being confused by some of the suggestions made in this thread I've always thought that Djokers 2hbh was a good model for players to model. It's a simple unit turn and take back with face closed, drop and drive. The angle of the racket face is taken care of so less need for complicated wrist work. Engage body, legs and extend to target.

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No forehand and backhand techniques that involve stopping the racket's head behind should be recommended for amateur players or in older categories because it requires great strength to be effective. That is why most women even in professional tennis dont use APT forehand.
 

3loudboys

Hall of Fame
No forehand and backhand techniques that involve stopping the racket's head behind should be recommended for amateur players or in older categories because it requires great strength to be effective. That is why most women even in professional tennis dont use APT forehand.
I suppose at rec/club level you get time for a loop but beyond that a compact take back is more necessary, as is use of the body and legs to generate power. We've been over extending out to target.

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grzewas

Rookie
I suppose at rec/club level you get time for a loop but beyond that a compact take back is more necessary, as is use of the body and legs to generate power. We've been over extending out to target.

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Why do you think Halep and Sharapova and most women in professional tennis dont stop the head of the racket behind ? They dont need time ?
 

pencilcheck

Professional
Reading you all post reminds me of this story about a group of blind people trying to understand what an elephant is but even though everyone is close no one get the whole picture
 

3loudboys

Hall of Fame
Why do you think Halep and Sharapova and most women in professional tennis dont stop the head of the racket behind ? They dont need time ?
There is a reason Djoker has the best backhand in the world. Just look at the beautiful simplicity of that stroke. Efficiency, balance, control, power and spin. Elegant use of his body and legs. I rest my case Greg.


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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
No forehand and backhand techniques that involve stopping the racket's head behind should be recommended for amateur players or in older categories because it requires great strength to be effective. That is why most women even in professional tennis dont use APT forehand.
Strength in the backswing ... LOL!!! ... you are killing me here ... good stuff sir Gregory.

I will play along with this Game of Trolls ... then I have to go walk the dog at the Park to clear my head of your Polish Propaganda 8-B

Djokovic does not "strength" from here:



or here:



But he (and all players hitting non-freak show 2hbs) "strength" ... "power" from here ... following is referred to as the slot ... everything before then is foreplay ... for timing ... including a drop, loop, etc. If you are powering into your backswing or your loop or at your drop ... your stroke is in that freak show category ... sorry to inform you. 8-B(n)

This be the slot Sir Gregory ... learn about it before future Game of Trolls posts:





Here are some "Who cares ... doesn't matter" pics of pros ... note all of the lack of "strength" involved in the "doesn't matter" stages.



Doesn't matter:




Matters:






Reminder ... below is the slot ... from here to contact is where the $ is made ... rest is just ttw chatter:




Gregory ... here is how you can find the part of the swing that matters. Watch Youtube video .... use frame by frame to detect the moment that lead shoulder starts to rotate forward ... that's when it matters ... that's when "strength" might be relevant. You are making the case that foreplay with strength ... bet you didn't get many repeat dates. :p

My work here should be done ... but I know it won't be.
 

grzewas

Rookie
There is a reason Djoker has the best backhand in the world. Just look at the beautiful simplicity of that stroke. Efficiency, balance, control, power and spin. Elegant use of his body and legs. I rest my case Greg.


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I agree that it is simple primitive backhand. Also forehand of Nadal is simple and primitive. Forehand and backhand of Serena Williams too. Everybody can repeat their movements but effect will not be the same. They are very strong and using backhand of Halep or Sharapova they would generate more power but they prefer to shorten the time of preparation for the stroke. They are so strong that even shortening the distance for accelerating the ball they can generate great speed of the ball. Whoever tries to copy forehand of Nadal and Serena Williams or backhands of Djokovic, Nadal or Serena cant be succesful in amateur tennis or in older categories. Show me any real match when you use effectively their technique. I tested their technique and know that my backhand technique generates more speed and spin. That is why I use it.
 

3loudboys

Hall of Fame
I agree that it is simple primitive backhand. Also forehand of Nadal is simple and primitive. Forehand and backhand of Serena Williams too. Everybody can repeat their movements but effect will not be the same. They are very strong and using backhand of Halep or Sharapova they would generate more power but they prefer to shorten the time of preparation for the stroke. They are so strong that even shortening the distance for accelerating the ball they can generate great speed of the ball. Whoever tries to copy forehand of Nadal and Serena Williams or backhands of Djokovic, Nadal or Serena cant be succesful in amateur tennis or in older categories. Show me any real match when you use effectively their technique. I tested their technique and know that my backhand technique generates more speed and spin. That is why I use it.
Primitive is not the way most observers of Djokers bh technique would describe it. You know as well as I do it's a better shot and your last post is nothing more than bait to get a reaction. You simply cant help yourself, shame because I am genuinely interested in your matches.

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grzewas

Rookie
Primitive is not the way most observers of Djokers bh technique would describe it. You know as well as I do it's a better shot and your last post is nothing more than bait to get a reaction. You simply cant help yourself, shame because I am genuinely interested in your matches.

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Backhand of Djokovic and backhand and forehand of Serena Williams are most effective shots in professional tennis. But not because of they are complicated. On the contrary. Because they are simple and primitive. They are so strong so they dont need good technique. They prefer to speed up preparation for the stroke. The same case was with Jim Courier 20 years ago. He used primitive technique and won grand slams.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Most pros pretty much time being "mostly" finished with backswing by bounce on their side ... and as you can see with Djokovic (always watch video from behind when you are trying to look at backswing prep and any pause in arms/hands).

So:

1) Djoker pauses early in backswing .... Fake News
2) Djoker preps earlier than required ... Fake News

 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I agree that it is simple primitive backhand. Also forehand of Nadal is simple and primitive. Forehand and backhand of Serena Williams too. Everybody can repeat their movements but effect will not be the same. They are very strong and using backhand of Halep or Sharapova they would generate more power but they prefer to shorten the time of preparation for the stroke. They are so strong that even shortening the distance for accelerating the ball they can generate great speed of the ball. Whoever tries to copy forehand of Nadal and Serena Williams or backhands of Djokovic, Nadal or Serena cant be succesful in amateur tennis or in older categories. Show me any real match when you use effectively their technique. I tested their technique and know that my backhand technique generates more speed and spin. That is why I use it.
So ... sample size = one old Polish dude 8-B
 

grzewas

Rookie
Most pros pretty much time being "mostly" finished with backswing by bounce on their side ... and as you can see with Djokovic (always watch video from behind when you are trying to look at backswing prep and any pause in arms/hands).

So:

1) Djoker pauses early in backswing .... Fake News
2) Djoker preps earlier than required ... Fake News

I dont know why you posted this video. I have seen his videos million times. I watched it once more and saw that he takes the racket back leading his hands down not upward. Then stops movement of the racket and his hands move in the opposite direction. The distance on which the racket is accelerated is half of the distance in my technique. He can afford it because he is very strong. When I do what he does I generate less speed and less spin than using my technique. I tested it million times. Why do you want me to lose matches ? My backhand is my greatest weapon. It can compete with best forehands in my age category. They are accustomed to attacking backhand and usually when they play against me they dont win too many points on that side. My greatest problem is my injured wrist so the best tactics is to play fast forehands on my forehand. Above some speed of the ball my wrist can't stand the impact and I need to relax him. That is the reason why in some of my strokes from forehand I keep right elbow by my side. I just have to block the ball because my wrist is too weak.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
This guy knows how to hit a two handed stroke:



Why didn't he teach "this guy" that stroke?




BTW ... I grabbed those two contacts randomly ... check out the center contact on both. Sweet SIr Gregory of Trolldom ... can't teach that ... you either got it or you don't.

So question ... in your opinion what is the problem with hitting a 2hfh just like the 2hbh ... using front arm/hand as bottom grip position? I think you ended up that way because of injured right wrist you were trying to protect ... so my question is assuming no injury, why not just a right 2hfh with left hand at bottom?
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
There is a reason Djoker has the best backhand in the world. Just look at the beautiful simplicity of that stroke. Efficiency, balance, control, power and spin. Elegant use of his body and legs. I rest my case Greg.


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I agree with the part about his balance and use of the legs. The main reason his backhand is so good is that he is better than any other player at getting his feet well-positioned to execute the shot, even when he has to cover a lot of ground to get to it.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
This guy knows how to hit a two handed stroke:



Why didn't he teach "this guy" that stroke?




BTW ... I grabbed those two contacts randomly ... check out the center contact on both. Sweet SIr Gregory of Trolldom ... can't teach that ... you either got it or you don't.

So question ... in your opinion what is the problem with hitting a 2hfh just like the 2hbh ... using front arm/hand as bottom grip position? I think you ended up that way because of injured right wrist you were trying to protect ... so my question is assuming no injury, why not just a right 2hfh with left hand at bottom?
OP’s body position at contact looks much better (better weight transfer with legs - look at position of rear leg) on his 2hf than on his 2hb. Maybe your snapshots have solved his problem of what’s wrong with his 2hb?
 

grzewas

Rookie
This guy knows how to hit a two handed stroke:



Why didn't he teach "this guy" that stroke?




BTW ... I grabbed those two contacts randomly ... check out the center contact on both. Sweet SIr Gregory of Trolldom ... can't teach that ... you either got it or you don't.

So question ... in your opinion what is the problem with hitting a 2hfh just like the 2hbh ... using front arm/hand as bottom grip position? I think you ended up that way because of injured right wrist you were trying to protect ... so my question is assuming no injury, why not just a right 2hfh with left hand at bottom?
1) Shortened reach from both sides is the main reason.
2) in two handed forehand the bottom hand is most important and usually left hand (which on the left side would have to be at the bottom) is not as good as the right hand
3) you would have to switch hands all the time.

I will write it again. If my wrist was not injured I would use two handed forehand only inside the court and when the ball is within the reach of two handed forehand. These are situation when two handed forehand is more effective than one handed. Other balls I would play using one handed forehand. I dont understand why one handed player dont learn two handed forehand too. It is stupid.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Above some speed of the ball my wrist can't stand the impact and I need to relax him.
Interesting, so you are aware you only have issues on FH side because you only learned stiff wrist techniques? The absurd part for me is, when you get a comfortable ball and can hit it with clean flowing technique (one handed FH) with relaxed wrist without stressing it, you go with two hands. When you are stretched and have no option but to arm the shot stiffening the wrist, you use one hand with injured wrist.
 
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travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
After watching the Peng Shuai vid, I realize now that I was not applying the left hand to the upper handle in the same way she does when I experimented with 2hf the other day. I was using a grip with my hand mostly behind the racquet, but Shuai uses a grip with her hand on the front side of the racquet. I will try her grip style next time. Again, I think the key to this shot appears to be the use of a contact zone further back in the stance compared to a 2hb so that the left arm is less limiting of extension through the hitting zone.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I dont know why you posted this video. I have seen his videos million times. I watched it once more and saw that he takes the racket back leading his hands down not upward. Then stops movement of the racket and his hands move in the opposite direction. The distance on which the racket is accelerated is half of the distance in my technique. He can afford it because he is very strong. When I do what he does I generate less speed and less spin than using my technique. I tested it million times. Why do you want me to lose matches ? My backhand is my greatest weapon. It can compete with best forehands in my age category. They are accustomed to attacking backhand and usually when they play against me they dont win too many points on that side. My greatest problem is my injured wrist so the best tactics is to play fast forehands on my forehand. Above some speed of the ball my wrist can't stand the impact and I need to relax him. That is the reason why in some of my strokes from forehand I keep right elbow by my side. I just have to block the ball because my wrist is too weak.
I posted the video because I am bored enough to be here. 8-B

"The distance on which the racket is accelerated is half of the distance in my technique. "

You don't seem to understand your own stroke.

You aren't swinging from here .... your shoulders haven't even rotated forward yet ... you are just ready to drop to slot position:



Now you have hit your slot ... shoulders are rotating forward and your swing has started ... about the same length as Djoker to contact.




Following your logic ... as painful is that is on just one cup of coffee ... YOUR Special sauce swing is special because you started your swing at pic #1 ... but Djoker doesn't start his swing at that similar position. Also ... you are saying you start your swing before your shoulder rotation forward ... so the sequence of events is 1) meaningful Gregory arms only start to the swing .... followed by 2) now the shoulders start to rotate and jump on that Gregory arm momentum.

I learn something everyday ... I always thought it was the arms jumping on the initial shoulder rotation. Who is going to break it to Fed?

But ... I'm way ahead of you. If you have innovated the rec arms first swing ... I am going to do you one better. I propose we accelerate the arms going into the backswing and never stop as it completes it's loop eventually ending at contact. You are leaving a lot of swing distance/range on the table with your just starting your swing at backswing.

I need breakfast and more coffee ... please don't leave ... I will be back. Love it.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I posted the video because I am bored enough to be here. 8-B

"The distance on which the racket is accelerated is half of the distance in my technique. "

You don't seem to understand your own stroke.

You aren't swinging from here .... your shoulders haven't even rotated forward yet ... you are just ready to drop to slot position:



Now you have hit your slot ... shoulders are rotating forward and your swing has started ... about the same length as Djoker to contact.




Following your logic ... as painful is that is on just one cup of coffee ... YOUR Special sauce swing is special because you started your swing at pic #1 ... but Djoker doesn't start his swing at that similar position. Also ... you are saying you start your swing before your shoulder rotation forward ... so the sequence of events is 1) meaningful Gregory arms only start to the swing .... followed by 2) now the shoulders start to rotate and jump on that Gregory arm momentum.

I learn something everyday ... I always thought it was the arms jumping on the initial shoulder rotation. Who is going to break it to Fed?

But ... I'm way ahead of you. If you have innovated the rec arms first swing ... I am going to do you one better. I propose we accelerate the arms going into the backswing and never stop as it completes it's loop eventually ending at contact. You are leaving a lot of swing distance/range on the table with your just starting your swing at backswing.

I need breakfast and more coffee ... please don't leave ... I will be back. Love it.
Looks like he is preparing for a vicious rip in those images. Much better balance on this example.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
OP’s body position at contact looks much better (better weight transfer with legs - look at position of rear leg) on his 2hf than on his 2hb. Maybe your snapshots have solved his problem of what’s wrong with his 2hb?
I don't think his 2hbh has a problem ... although he could go to full left arm extension by contact. That 90% right elbow at contact on that 2hfh is a problem ... but understandable looking and finding a way to avoid pain. Unfortunately ... years later ... we are getting the pain. 8-B
 

grzewas

Rookie

In this video we can see that the ball really interacts with the racket's frame. At the beginning back of the ball deforms and the strings stretch.. Frame during that time moved forward. Front of the ball almost didn’t move. When strings are stretching they pull the frame back. According to the third law of dynamics, the frame exerts a force on the strings in the other direction and strings exerts a force on the ball. The ball indirectly “feels” the frame. The front of the ball begins to move forward but in the first phase of its movement it has contact with the strings and during that time frame is moving. The effect of such collision depends not only on the speed of the frame but also on the effective mass of the frame. It is obvious and could be seen if we changed tennis racket for badminton racket and accelerated it to the same speed. The effective mass depends not only on the mass of the racket but also on how tightly it is connected to our body. By increasing the effective mass, we increase the speed of the ball, assuming that the speed of the racket frame is the same. However, increasing the effective mass of the racket requires holding it firmly, which usually slows down the racket's movement. Depending on the situation, a compromise must be found between the strength with which we hold the racket and its speed. If the approaching ball is fast we can recover much of its kinetic energy by holding the racket tighter. To hit the same ball with the same speed with a looser grip, we need to accelerate the racket's head to higher speed. The faster the racket speed, the less control we have as to the direction of the stroke. Power and control are equally important and a good player can find the right balance between two.
 

grzewas

Rookie
After watching the Peng Shuai vid, I realize now that I was not applying the left hand to the upper handle in the same way she does when I experimented with 2hf the other day. I was using a grip with my hand mostly behind the racquet, but Shuai uses a grip with her hand on the front side of the racquet. I will try her grip style next time. Again, I think the key to this shot appears to be the use of a contact zone further back in the stance compared to a 2hb so that the left arm is less limiting of extension through the hitting zone.
The grip of left hand in two handed forehand ( Peng Shuai forehand) is similar to grip we should use in two handed backhand but not exactly the same. But remember that if the left hand doesnt go upward in the first phase of the stroke then this grip opens the racket.
 
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