What is the weakness of Federer.

Aykhan Mammadov

Hall of Fame
The same as for many emotional people - trembling.

He is trembling very often, always, he is just trembling, trembling,trembling.....

When somebody is trembling he loses at least 50% of his techniques.

There is even term in Japanese Karate-do: "Misu-No-Kokoro" what means "sleeping lake". When the water in a lake is sleeping ( not moving) u see yr picture clear, when it is worrying ( trembling) u see yr reflection distorted. Same for techniques.

IMO, Sampras had more severe character, as well as McEnroe.
 

Dan007

Hall of Fame
He really doesn't have a weakness, but especially his forehand volleys are not good as the other part of the game.
 
Biggest weakness: being on a clay court against someone who can hit heavy heavy topspin (i.e. Nadal). Nadal is such a threat to Roger because when healthy, he moves well and has trememdous topspin that forces Roger out of his comfort zone. He ends up hitting balls up around his shoulder and backed up from the baseline.
 

brucie

Professional
I thought some of his speciality drop shots should have been played I no nadel is fast but he is so far back! technicially standing back the angles and distance to run should be greater but nadel gets everything its mad!
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
Among his entire repertoire, I think Fed's volleys are his least consistent groundstrokes.
 

janipyt05

Professional
I say fed b.h is imo his weakest shot he puts a lot of top spin on it but if he switches to his forhand its a much tighter more secure shot. That's why rafa did hit to the backhand side more
 

urban

Legend
I think, Fed's backhand cannot hurt Nadal. When under pressure the backhand tends to get short and tame, letting Nadal dictate the points. The one combination, which is successful, is a low slice to Nadal's lefty doublehander, to force a high, short return, which Fed can punish with his big forehand. This worked quite well in the last set, but this low bh slice down the line is difficult to contain over a longer stretch. It's easier to hit it cross court, which gives Fed reasonable success against righthanders. Nadal puts pressure on Fed, holds him on the run, more than he likes. The result is, that Fed begins to overhit his forehand. That's the end.
 
S

splink779

Guest
I think Fed needs to slice every backhand when he plays Nadal. His topspin backhand is extremely neutral (oxymoron, i know) when he plays Nadal. He doesn't flatten it at all.
 

Warriorroger

Hall of Fame
Federer's biggest weakness is his mental capacity. He has all the shots, and because he is so good and likable, most men forgot how to challenge him. Nadal is like Monica Seles to Steffi Graf in the end of the 80s. It is strange to say, but I miss the killer instinct with Roger. Rafael played well, great, but a true champion who hates the lose would have never given away that lead. It has happened before to Roger and if he doesn't work on his mental game, Rafael will beat him on a constant basis.
 

Aykhan Mammadov

Hall of Fame
Why am I talking about trembling ? Because his techniques and his game WHEN HE IS IN THE GAME AND DOESN'T THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE is unbeatable in principle ( watch 8-th game in the 2-nd set). Nadal and others are not opponents for him. But when he worries and starts thinking about his defeat he starts trembling. At such moments his hands lose strength as well as his strokes. He starts making unforced errows and loses.

There is no way to help him with this, it is his nature. Even me with my posts couldn't help him during last 2 years. If I were his coach I'd come to him ( if it were permitted) and slap him in his face a few times to take him out of his state.
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
I see it too, Aykhan. Federer is a great champion, he wins so much, he rarely gets the chance to give his nerves a workout. What I'm saying is on the lines of what Aykhan is saying - he's simply scared of the thought of LOSING. When things get tight....he thinks about who he is and says, "I'm the best damn tennis player in the world....everyone is EXPECTING me to win this match....uh oh....I might not win this match" (this is where he starts to tremble because of the pressure to win all matches).

It's pretty clear I think. Just look at how he holds back and no longer plays like Federer near the end of a match where he is down (few exceptions of course, like Miami last year against Nadal - but there he didn't quite "fear" Nadal as he does now").

Federer is just human in this respect....but can play like a God.
 

janipyt05

Professional
Docalex007 said:
I see it too, Aykhan. Federer is a great champion, he wins so much, he rarely gets the chance to give his nerves a workout.
Thats the problem isn't it when he gets his nerves worked he doesn't win so far against rafa.

His is totally a great player but really he did let up he was crusing to a win but took his foot of the gas the question is why

Rafermania i dont think ppl have forgetten how great fed is he lost when he was winning. Rafa proved that his not just a clay courter
 

VamosRafa

Hall of Fame
Whatever the reason, it's nice that someone can challenge Federer. The fact that he was still winning everything in sight while playing mediocre tennis at times just demonstrated that he was winning matches in the locker room, i.e., because he is Fed. Other guys came close, but then they trembled, not Roger. Rafa is one of the few guys who won't tremble when facing Fed.

Rafa's greatest strength, as others have noted, too, is that he generally isn't going to beat himself. He makes others beat him -- and that's an amazing talent to have when you are 19. And that is why he accomplished as much as he did last year, even though he does need to improve some aspects of his game, certainly. But that's true of most 19-year-olds.

His serve is a liability at times, especially on hardcourts. Someone here noted he was going to have to improve that to remain a top player. IMO, he's going to have to improve it to challenge Rogelio for No. 1. Given how Rafa has played in the two tournaments since coming back from injury, I don't see him falling out of the Top 10 anytime soon. And goodness knows, he deserves to be there more than Davydenko. ;-)
 
raftermania said:
Are we aware that Federer had a 52 match winning streak on hard courts before this????

Yes............so that means he's "trembled" before, but it's been awhile.

BTW,

The OP is a troll.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
VamosRafa said:
Whatever the reason, it's nice that someone can challenge Federer. The fact that he was still winning everything in sight while playing mediocre tennis at times just demonstrated that he was winning matches in the locker room, i.e., because he is Fed. Other guys came close, but then they trembled, not Roger. Rafa is one of the few guys who won't tremble when facing Fed.

Rafa's greatest strength, as others have noted, too, is that he generally isn't going to beat himself. He makes others beat him -- and that's an amazing talent to have when you are 19. And that is why he accomplished as much as he did last year, even though he does need to improve some aspects of his game, certainly. But that's true of most 19-year-olds.

His serve is a liability at times, especially on hardcourts. Someone here noted he was going to have to improve that to remain a top player. IMO, he's going to have to improve it to challenge Rogelio for No. 1. Given how Rafa has played in the two tournaments since coming back from injury, I don't see him falling out of the Top 10 anytime soon. And goodness knows, he deserves to be there more than Davydenko. ;-)
Though this thread was about Feds weaknesses and not Nadal's strengths and weaknesses??

Fed doesnt have any weaknesses obviously.

Nadal will always be a bad match up for him because he is lefty, is unorthodox, and hits with crazy spin, and can grind and bore people into submission. Nalbandian did that to him for a while, but since nalby is orthodox, Fed was able to solve him. Good for Fed that the kid is hurt alot...i dont Nadal is going to have a very long career hitting the ball like that, using that sort of gear, and playing every ball at 100% and having to hit a hundred balls to win a point.

The Nadal high bounding forehand to the Fed backhand is what gives Fed the probs I think, especially with that small headed frame he's using. I'd like to see him go to somethng a little larger and get some help there as that would also help him on the dirt in general and especially at RG. Sampras was thinking of going to something larger and that was already somewhile ago, and the game has changed a bit even since then
 

loubapache

Professional
NoBadMojo said:
The Nadal high bounding forehand to the Fed backhand is what gives Fed the probs I think, especially with that small headed frame he's using. I'd like to see him go to somethng a little larger and get some help there as that would also help him on the dirt in general and especially at RG. Sampras was thinking of going to something larger and that was already somewhile ago, and the game has changed a bit even since then
Exactly what I was thinking but afraid to post because flames will start.

First of all, FED did hit many beautiful BH winners today. When he hit the sweat spot it was beautiful to watch.

However, FED had so many mishits and shanks on the backhand side in the 2nd and 3rd sets today. He needs a MP. Frankly he has trouble handling the midsize when playing people like NAD and SAF. Even if he did not mishit, the balls off his BH were inconsistent. Many times too short and week and NAD just took over and punished FED.

I do not think FED will win the French with that midsize as long as NAD is in the draw.

Flames are welcome but will be ignored. :)
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
loubapache said:
Exactly what I was thinking but afraid to post because flames will start.

First of all, FED did hit many beautiful BH winners today. When he hit the sweat spot it was beautiful to watch.

However, FED had so many mishits and shanks on the backhand side in the 2nd and 3rd sets today. He needs a MP. Frankly he has trouble handling the midsize when playing people like NAD and SAF. Even if he did not mishit, the balls off his BH were inconsistent. Many times too short and week and NAD just took over and punished FED.

I do not think FED will win the French with that midsize as long as NAD is in the draw.

Flames are welcome but will be ignored. :)
Ha! Stick around and you'll get used to getting flamed for offering up some reasoned cogent discourse. People seem to take things like this personally when it's only a tennis racquet.

Didnt see the match, but your observations are precisely what we both are trying to convey..you did it better than I, as you backed it up with what you just saw and cited examples
 

devila

Banned
Nadal's right-handed and was taught to play left-handed.
This opens up the court and lets him create angle winners. Congrats to his uncle for teaching him that technique and for making him practice balance by standing on chairs.

Federer's an intellectual. He has no weakness, whatsoever. Today, John and Patrick McEnroe tried to kill themselves.

Let's not discuss Nadal's clay court strengths that actually work on the dreaded hardcourts.
 

ask1ed

Semi-Pro
Santoro pointed out his weakness when he took a set off him. Short angled slices and a lot of variety to his bh. Keep most shots over there, mix up depth and pace to bh side, and pump some into fh corner when he starts to lean too much on covering bh side. Everyone knows when you starve someone's strength, when they finally get to hit one, they can overhit and make ue. He's so fast and good about running around bh, that he also leaves fh open to flat shots deep into the fh corner. HOw else do you explain him losing a set to Santoro?
Nobadmojo has many cogent sights.
 
NoBadMojo said:
Good for Fed that the kid is hurt alot...i dont Nadal is going to have a very long career hitting the ball like that, using that sort of gear, and playing every ball at 100% and having to hit a hundred balls to win a point.
How does his "gear" affect him. Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion.
 

loubapache

Professional
NBMJ:

I read all these flame wars about racquet head size and weight. I do not remember how you said it but I will paraphrase below and I thought that was the best advice you can offer to anybody.

One needs to select the right racquet (weight, swing weight, and head size, etc) when he or she is playing an equal or better opponent. When one is being pushed around, let’s see what the best racquet is for the player. If it happens to be a heavy and small head size, or a light and large headsize, or something between, so be it.

Today, the Ncode 90 was FED’s perfect racquet in the 1st set. He hit cleanly and volleyed cleanly. He could not continue to do that in the next 2 sets. There are, of course, many reasons (some of them I will speculate below), but one of them might be the weight and head size of the racquet when being pushed around by NAD. That same racquet might be perfect for him when playing ROD in Wimbledon, for 5 sets (shorter points), but not today playing NAD for 3 sets.

Another observation while watching today.

FED was a bit too confident and not patient enough after winning the 1st set easily in record breaking fashion. In the only game he was broken in the 2nd set, I recall he was passed three times at the net because he really should not have come in after these approaching shots.

On that topic, NBMJ, David Potter (I think you might know him in your profession), came here this past week, worked with our varsity teams, gave a seminar to the PTM students on open stance, and gave a clinic to the club players. In that clinic, he emphasized “pressure, hurt, and kill.” FED came in too early in many occasions before hurting NAD and NAD passed him.
 

Max G.

Legend
ask1ed said:
HOw else do you explain him losing a set to Santoro?
By the fact that Santoro just plays so damn WEIRD. He had wins over so many top players - he's 3-3 vs Agassi, 3-4 vs Sampras.

A weakness that is created by Santoro doesn't necessarily mean a weakness that is exploitable by anyone else on the ATP tour...
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
Honestlybad said:
This post was a joke right?;)
Nope... it wasnt...
Don't u think his volley are the less consistent shot in his groundie repertoire?
His volleys are less consistent than his backhand, and his forehand. Even his half-volleys, specially from the baseline, are more accurate, and precise than his volleys...
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
That doesn't mean his volleys are bad at all... which are not :)
But with that beauty of a bakchand and that insane forehand, the volley is the weakest groundstroke in his book ;)
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
loubapache said:
NBMJ:


On that topic, NBMJ, David Potter (I think you might know him in your profession), came here this past week, worked with our varsity teams, gave a seminar to the PTM students on open stance, and gave a clinic to the club players. In that clinic, he emphasized “pressure, hurt, and kill.” FED came in too early in many occasions before hurting NAD and NAD passed him.
Pressure, hurt, and kill. Thats a good way to view it I think. There would also maybe be a 'Neutral' where you are just staying in the point. My fav coach Carlos Goffi views it with a stoplight approach. Green, Yellow, and Red and ties it in to court positions, which seems to be pretty much the same thing.

One thing that I think Nadal really excels at is his up back / back up movement...easy to see he is a really good side to side mover, but he really knows how to move in and take those balls when they are presented to him in a way where he can transition to 'hurt' mode. Not that he takes them on the rise or anything. Contrast some of the other baseliners who seem to prety much work the court the same distance from the baseline
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Nadal+ Nalbandian,by the way why is nadals racket a arm crusher looks more like a fed crusher to me.Sounds like all the fed fans are hoping nadal gets hurt,i thought fed was the god of tennis does he need nadal to be injured to stay #1?
 

fastdunn

Legend
sIn terms of today's baseline tennis, Fed doesn't really have
any weakness.

In terms of old days' all court tennis, however, his net game
is a sub-par. I think he is experimenting with his net game
at non-critical points. In yesterday's final with Nadal, he
lost 5 straight critical net point to give 2nd set away, though...
 

devila

Banned
Federer's backhand volley where he had to leap in the air is laughable. Nadal has the good height and body type to reach these volleys and turned defense into offense immediately. Sampras wouldn't criticize Federer because he looks down upon "grinders who work hard." LOL
After all, Sampras is the greatest of all time and told the TV show Beyond the Glory that he never behaved like an ass hole. LMAO
 

Cigo

Rookie
Aykhan Mammadov said:
The same as for many emotional people - trembling.

He is trembling very often, always, he is just trembling, trembling,trembling.....

When somebody is trembling he loses at least 50% of his techniques.

There is even term in Japanese Karate-do: "Misu-No-Kokoro" what means "sleeping lake". When the water in a lake is sleeping ( not moving) u see yr picture clear, when it is worrying ( trembling) u see yr reflection distorted. Same for techniques.

IMO, Sampras had more severe character, as well as McEnroe.
I know exactly what you mean when you speak of this 'trembling.' Wouldn't it have been present at all the other major points in his carrier so far? Or is it that it only escalades to this level now?


OT: Anyone know more about this? Books, articles or something? Technique is all good, but thins like this can ruine a match. :D
 
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