What is up with my SW??

Azzurri

Legend
OK, I worked over an hour testing the weight, balance, length and SW (the one advised by TWU) and here are the #'s I got. They have to be off. I assure you, the weight machine was perfect (used 2 and also made sure the weight was correct by using 2 different GRAM weights). I used a yard stick and performed the balance and length correctly. But my SW's are insane! I need help!

Head MG P MP #1:
Length: 68.5 c
Weight: 349 g
Balance: 34.5 cm
SW: 364:shock: (the racquet swayed 10X in 13.76 seconds avg.)

Head MG MP #2:
L: same
W: 345.3 g
B: same
SW: 359 (this swayed 10X in 13.75 seconds avg.)

KPS 88
L: 68.5
W: 360.8
B: 36 (yes..did it 3 times)
SW: 390 :shock: (my god. 10X 13.6 seconds avg.)

I can't believe my figures are correct. I sed TW University. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.
 

Quikj

Rookie
They don't seem too unreasonable to me. Your rackets are heavy even balanced frames. They should have a pretty high SW. My rackets are on the heavy side as well but balanced with less weight in the head so the SW isn't astronomical.
 

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
They don't seem too unreasonable to me. Your rackets are heavy even balanced frames. They should have a pretty high SW. My rackets are on the heavy side as well but balanced with less weight in the head so the SW isn't astronomical.

A swingweight of 390 isnt unreasonable??

That's insane.

(it would make for some nice ploughthrough though)
 

crash

Rookie
It seems to me your balance points are kinda high...

Did you add weight to the head of those frames to make them more head heavy ? That would explain the high sw.

Especially in the case of the KPS88, a balance of 36 cm = 5 points head heavy, compared to the stock 6 points head light listed on TW.
 

VGP

Legend
Azzurri -

1. put away the scales, stopwatches, and calculators

2. go play tennis


This goes for everybody else out there!

:)
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
OK, I worked over an hour testing the weight, balance, length and SW (the one advised by TWU) and here are the #'s I got. They have to be off. I assure you, the weight machine was perfect (used 2 and also made sure the weight was correct by using 2 different GRAM weights). I used a yard stick and performed the balance and length correctly. But my SW's are insane! I need help!

Head MG P MP #1:
Length: 68.5 c
Weight: 349 g
Balance: 34.5 cm
SW: 364:shock: (the racquet swayed 10X in 13.76 seconds avg.)

Head MG MP #2:
L: same
W: 345.3 g
B: same
SW: 359 (this swayed 10X in 13.75 seconds avg.)

KPS 88
L: 68.5
W: 360.8
B: 36 (yes..did it 3 times)
SW: 390 :shock: (my god. 10X 13.6 seconds avg.)

I can't believe my figures are correct. I sed TW University. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

I can't believe the figures too but the balance of the frames does suggest a very high sw.

Azzurri -

1. put away the scales, stopwatches, and calculators

2. go play tennis


This goes for everybody else out there!

:)

Great point, if it plays well go hit some balls n forget bout the figures LOL!

mawahsi
 

Azzurri

Legend
It seems to me your balance points are kinda high...

Did you add weight to the head of those frames to make them more head heavy ? That would explain the high sw.

Especially in the case of the KPS88, a balance of 36 cm = 5 points head heavy, compared to the stock 6 points head light listed on TW.

Nothing added..stock.

OK, I don't know how to figure out the balance...my god! The KPS can't be 5 pts HH.

I took a yard stick. placed it on the top of a filing cabinet. Taped it. the ZERO/1cm was taped right at the edge. I took a pencil and taped it so the racquet could easily "balance" once it got to its balance point. The racquet began to fall (balance forward/down) at 36 cm. What did I do wrong?

Thanks again! and how to I figure out balance using cm? How did you get 36 cm is 5 pts HH? I am bad at math, so be gentle.:)
 

Azzurri

Legend
Azzurri -

1. put away the scales, stopwatches, and calculators

2. go play tennis


This goes for everybody else out there!

:)

dude, I can't play the racquet stock. I have to make some modifications and thought I could do it myself. Guess not.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
OK, I worked over an hour testing the weight, balance, length and SW (the one advised by TWU) and here are the #'s I got. They have to be off. I assure you, the weight machine was perfect (used 2 and also made sure the weight was correct by using 2 different GRAM weights). I used a yard stick and performed the balance and length correctly. But my SW's are insane! I need help!

Head MG P MP #1:
Length: 68.5 c
Weight: 349 g
Balance: 34.5 cm
SW: 364:shock: (the racquet swayed 10X in 13.76 seconds avg.)

Head MG MP #2:
L: same
W: 345.3 g
B: same
SW: 359 (this swayed 10X in 13.75 seconds avg.)

KPS 88
L: 68.5
W: 360.8
B: 36 (yes..did it 3 times)
SW: 390 :shock: (my god. 10X 13.6 seconds avg.)

I can't believe my figures are correct. I sed TW University. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

It helps to give the 'balance' units in US imperial, too. 36 cm is 14.17 in. or nearly 6 points HH

Is your KPS88 really almost 6 points HH? It's no wonder the SW is so high.

However, it doesn't sound correct based on the static weight unless the QC guy at Wilson nodded off for a few hours.
 

crash

Rookie
Nothing added..stock.

OK, I don't know how to figure out the balance...my god! The KPS can't be 5 pts HH.

I took a yard stick. placed it on the top of a filing cabinet. Taped it. the ZERO/1cm was taped right at the edge. I took a pencil and taped it so the racquet could easily "balance" once it got to its balance point. The racquet began to fall (balance forward/down) at 36 cm. What did I do wrong?

Thanks again! and how to I figure out balance using cm? How did you get 36 cm is 5 pts HH? I am bad at math, so be gentle.:)

Just to make sure, you measured the balance from the BUTT (not the top of the head) to the balance point right ? It is possible you did the opposite, in the case of the KPS, that would make the balance about 32.5 cm which makes more sense. Otherwise, your method seems right.

Now for the conversion, each "point" is 1/8 of an inch towards the butt (Head light) or towards the head (head heavy) from the middle of the racquet. So, to go from "points" to "cm", you need to substract half the length of racquet (in cm) to the balance you measured (in cm) and then divide that by 2.54 (to convert from cm to inch) and finally multiply by 8 to convert into 1/8 of an inch.

Put into an equation, it gives PTS=8*(B-L/2)/2,54
where B:balance in cm, L=length in cm and PTS=points (a negative value means head light and a positive value head heavy).

It also goes the other way around (from PTS to balance in cm)
B=L/2+PTS*2,54/8

I hope I made it clear enough, good luck.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I guess I should read all the posts before commenting... since you've determined you calculated the balance incorrectly :)
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Just to make sure, you measured the balance from the BUTT (not the top of the head) to the balance point right ? It is possible you did the opposite, in the case of the KPS, that would make the balance about 32.5 cm which makes more sense. Otherwise, your method seems right.

Now for the conversion, each "point" is 1/8 of an inch towards the butt (Head light) or towards the head (head heavy) from the middle of the racquet. So, to go from "points" to "cm", you need to substract half the length of racquet (in cm) to the balance you measured (in cm) and then divide that by 2.54 (to convert from cm to inch) and finally multiply by 8 to convert into 1/8 of an inch.

Put into an equation, it gives PTS=8*(B-L/2)/2,54
where B:balance in cm, L=length in cm and PTS=points (a negative value means head light and a positive value head heavy).

It also goes the other way around (from PTS to balance in cm)
B=L/2+PTS*2,54/8

I hope I made it clear enough, good luck.

Lol.. I was thinking he may have measured from the head too... as opposed to the butt. That would put the balance spot on, stock.
 
regarding swingweight...

Why cant swingweight be determined simply by knowing the overall static weight and the balance point? Seems to me a simple chart (grid) with weight on top and balance point on the side. I am sure I am simplifying things and there is something I am missing.

for instance (not a real example)

350g static weight, 5pts HL = 335 SW
360g static weight, 5pts HL = 340 SW
370g static weight, 5pts HL = 345 SW
380g static weight, 5pts HL = 350 SW

350g static weight, 7pts HL = 325 SW
360g static weight, 7pts HL = 335 SW

this is all hyprothetical, but once grid established it would be easy to know wswingweight by knowing static and balance.

WHAT AM I MISSING?
 

0d1n

Hall of Fame
You probably didn't start to measure from the handle but from the head instead.
A standard length racket is 68.5 cm (68.56 I think ...).
If you started from the head, 68.5-36 = 32.5 which is the real balance from the handle.
The Head's are still a bit too head heavy even if you started from the top (68.5-34.5 = 34 balance from the handle, which would mean roughly 33 balance when measured unstrung, perhaps slightly lower if you use heavy strings...that's still almost 2 cm "off" the 31 cm balance advertised).
Can't comment on what you did wrong on the SW numbers...but at least they are consistently high, which means that when you correct your mistake, you will have accurate AND consistent numbers (your "count" was probably "off" by 1 or 2...)

@ NoMansLandPlayer - there is no such chart because weight and balance don't directly translate into swing weight. The mass distribution also affects the inertia.
If you have more mass concentrated @ or close to the balance point the inertia (SW) will be smaller than when you have the mass concentrated more towards the head and handle (same balance point as first example). The more mass you have placed at a further distance from your hand (i.e in the racket head) the more inertia/sw the frame will have, even if the balance point and mass are identical.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
regarding swingweight...

Why cant swingweight be determined simply by knowing the overall static weight and the balance point? Seems to me a simple chart (grid) with weight on top and balance point on the side. I am sure I am simplifying things and there is something I am missing.

for instance (not a real example)

350g static weight, 5pts HL = 335 SW
360g static weight, 5pts HL = 340 SW
370g static weight, 5pts HL = 345 SW
380g static weight, 5pts HL = 350 SW

350g static weight, 7pts HL = 325 SW
360g static weight, 7pts HL = 335 SW

this is all hyprothetical, but once grid established it would be easy to know wswingweight by knowing static and balance.

WHAT AM I MISSING?

Two racquets can have the same static weight and balance... however, their weight distribution can be vastly different.
 

Azzurri

Legend
It helps to give the 'balance' units in US imperial, too. 36 cm is 14.17 in. or nearly 6 points HH

Is your KPS88 really almost 6 points HH? It's no wonder the SW is so high.

However, it doesn't sound correct based on the static weight unless the QC guy at Wilson nodded off for a few hours.

No, my 88 is not HH. I messed up the measurement.:oops:

I am new to this. I am a specs virgin.:)
 

Azzurri

Legend
Just to make sure, you measured the balance from the BUTT (not the top of the head) to the balance point right ? It is possible you did the opposite, in the case of the KPS, that would make the balance about 32.5 cm which makes more sense. Otherwise, your method seems right.

Now for the conversion, each "point" is 1/8 of an inch towards the butt (Head light) or towards the head (head heavy) from the middle of the racquet. So, to go from "points" to "cm", you need to substract half the length of racquet (in cm) to the balance you measured (in cm) and then divide that by 2.54 (to convert from cm to inch) and finally multiply by 8 to convert into 1/8 of an inch.

Put into an equation, it gives PTS=8*(B-L/2)/2,54
where B:balance in cm, L=length in cm and PTS=points (a negative value means head light and a positive value head heavy).

It also goes the other way around (from PTS to balance in cm)
B=L/2+PTS*2,54/8

I hope I made it clear enough, good luck.

oh man...I am bad with this kind of math. I need to see a visual (I see, I learn:)). I saw Yulittle's youtube video, but he used an actual balance machine kind of like the alpha board. I used a pencil and a yard stick.:oops:
 

Azzurri

Legend
You probably didn't start to measure from the handle but from the head instead.
A standard length racket is 68.5 cm (68.56 I think ...).
If you started from the head, 68.5-36 = 32.5 which is the real balance from the handle.
The Head's are still a bit too head heavy even if you started from the top (68.5-34.5 = 34 balance from the handle, which would mean roughly 33 balance when measured unstrung, perhaps slightly lower if you use heavy strings...that's still almost 2 cm "off" the 31 cm balance advertised).
Can't comment on what you did wrong on the SW numbers...but at least they are consistently high, which means that when you correct your mistake, you will have accurate AND consistent numbers (your "count" was probably "off" by 1 or 2...)

@ NoMansLandPlayer - there is no such chart because weight and balance don't directly translate into swing weight. The mass distribution also affects the inertia.
If you have more mass concentrated @ or close to the balance point the inertia (SW) will be smaller than when you have the mass concentrated more towards the head and handle (same balance point as first example). The more mass you have placed at a further distance from your hand (i.e in the racket head) the more inertia/sw the frame will have, even if the balance point and mass are identical.

Thanks OD..I get what you are saying. Here is what I will do. I will try this again tomorrow and uload a few pictures of my "work space". This way you may all see what I am doing. I bet it will be easier to explain my mistake and correct me.

Yes, the length and static weight are spot on. I did that little balancing test TW shows on their University page. The times (seconds) were very consistent. So my balance HAS to be off because I measured it wrong.

Maybe this will help before I put up pics:

I place the yard stick with the zero end at the edge of the table. I placed the racquet head (starting) right at the zero/edge of the table. I slowly slid the racquet (which had a taped pencil under so it allowed a "balance") until the handle pick up. I thought at that point this is where the balance was. At the point of where the handle cam up, I measured that at 36 cm.

Thanks again for evryone's help. I am new to this and want to be more knowedgable about racquet modification.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
390???? :shock: (faints). :)

Like you, I'm also learning as I go. Good luck with this, and keep us updated. Seems like you have a few guys in here who are being helpful in guiding you in the right direction.
 

Azzurri

Legend
390???? :shock: (faints). :)

Like you, I'm also learning as I go. Good luck with this, and keep us updated. Seems like you have a few guys in here who are being helpful in guiding you in the right direction.

can you imagine 390 SW! I know Jolly's is near 400, but I don't play the same game he does. My arm would fall off y the 3rd game.

I will bring home the yard stick tonight and take some pics exactly how I performed the measurements. I may also be playing tonight, so I will give a short review of the KPS of your thread sometime soon.
 

larry10s

Hall of Fame
azzurri if there is a tennis shop near you i would watch them do your specs. otherwisw send one to **** or some othe place the fee for just specs without anything else is usually not too much. then you can discuus with them what went wrong
 

Sublime

Semi-Pro
regarding swingweight...

Why cant swingweight be determined simply by knowing the overall static weight and the balance point?

350g static weight, 5pts HL = 335 SW

Let's take this one example. At the absolute theoretical extremes lets say you have two rackets. One as all 350g exactly at the balance point. The other one has 167g at the tip and 183g at the buttcap.

The first would have a SW of 178
The second would have a SW of 587

Obviously neither of these extremes could actually exist (there would be some weight everywhere on the frame) but it illustrates how wide the spread can be for the same static weight and balance point.

I believe people call the SW / static weight the polarized factor.
 

Azzurri

Legend
azzurri if there is a tennis shop near you i would watch them do your specs. otherwisw send one to **** or some othe place the fee for just specs without anything else is usually not too much. then you can discuus with them what went wrong

ha ha ha...c'mon now. I obviously don't know how to set up the racquet for balance. I don't need to spend $ for someone to weigh my racquets and measure them. I just need to know how to balance them.:)
 

Azzurri

Legend
Got it!! I figured out my mistake. Check the LAST picture. The racquet should be at even balance when placed on the yard stick. I was placing the top of the racquet at the edge and pushing the racquet forward until it was unbalanced. In this pic, my racquet started with the head of the racquet at the edge, unlike this picture where the middle of the racquet was at the edge. This is from TW Univ. and I somehow thought the tip of the racquet was the starting point.

I know what I did now. Will fix it later tonight and update the SW.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Alpha Balance Board

regarding swingweight...

Why cant swingweight be determined simply by knowing the overall static weight and the balance point? Seems to me a simple chart (grid) with weight on top and balance point on the side. I am sure I am simplifying things and there is something I am missing.

for instance (not a real example)

350g static weight, 5pts HL = 335 SW
360g static weight, 5pts HL = 340 SW
370g static weight, 5pts HL = 345 SW
380g static weight, 5pts HL = 350 SW

350g static weight, 7pts HL = 325 SW
360g static weight, 7pts HL = 335 SW

this is all hyprothetical, but once grid established it would be easy to know wswingweight by knowing static and balance.

WHAT AM I MISSING?

May I recommend the Alpha Balance Board?

I'll second this and throw in an AWESOME!!! The best 30 bucks you'll ever spend, IMO.

I previously measured the balance using a coffee table edge and a tape measure <---
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Quick and dirty (and cheap) method for measuring balance

oh man...I am bad with this kind of math. I need to see a visual (I see, I learn:)). I saw Yulittle's youtube video, but he used an actual balance machine kind of like the alpha board. I used a pencil and a yard stick.:oops:

This is for a standard length 27" racquet:


1. Measure 13.5" from the butt and make a temporary mark.

2. Stick the racquet on the edge of a table (butt end hanging over the edge) and push the racquet slowly until it starts to tip off the edge, slightly.

3. Make a second temporary mark on the racquet at the edge of the table.

4. Measure the distance between the two marks.

5. If the second mark is on the butt cap side, it's HL. Otherwise, it's HH <---

6. If the distance is 1", it's 8 points HL. If the distance is 1/2", it's 4 points HL., etc. (see #5).

1 point is 1/8"
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Got it!! I figured out my mistake. Check the LAST picture. The racquet should be at even balance when placed on the yard stick. I was placing the top of the racquet at the edge and pushing the racquet forward until it was unbalanced. In this pic, my racquet started with the head of the racquet at the edge, unlike this picture where the middle of the racquet was at the edge. This is from TW Univ. and I somehow thought the tip of the racquet was the starting point.

I know what I did now. Will fix it later tonight and update the SW.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight

Yeah, I figured you had it reversed and were starting from the tip... that's why your measurement 'points' were correct... but the HL/HH designation was reversed.
 

Azzurri

Legend
^^ Thanks for the tip. I measured out my Heads at 31.5. They were both off by 3 cm. what is the HL points?:)

Won't have the KPS stat until Sunday. The owner of my club "borrowed" my KPS.:)
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
^^ Thanks for the tip. I measured out my Heads at 31.5. They were both off by 3 cm. what is the HL points?:)

Won't have the KPS stat until Sunday. The owner of my club "borrowed" my KPS.:)

315mm is 9 pts hl, 310 is 10hl n 305 is 12hl.

mawashi
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
Yup, i got the measurements from vantage n double confirmed it through some of my other wilson frames.

28009jq.jpg


mawashi

Azzurri... u sure you did it right this time LOL?
 
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Azzurri

Legend
I hope so. I added leather grips to the Heads and did not think they would be 9pts HL. I may end up getting that Alpha thing to measure balance. I know the MGPMP on the TW sepcs page lists 6 pts HL. Could a leather grip cause a 3 pts swing???:shock:
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
I hope so. I added leather grips to the Heads and did not think they would be 9pts HL. I may end up getting that Alpha thing to measure balance. I know the MGPMP on the TW sepcs page lists 6 pts HL. Could a leather grip cause a 3 pts swing???:shock:

Quite possible as it adds between 7 to 15 g depending on the type of leather grip. All the weight is concentrated at the handle unlike the weight of strings which are spread over a larger n longer area.

I'm guessing here but, from my messing about with my frames, the addition of a leather grip does change the balance by 1 or 2 points, 3 is unusual although possible.

Getting the alpha board is a great idea, really makes these measurements so much more accurate n easier.

mawashi
 
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larry10s

Hall of Fame
take a butter knife. find the balance point put your thumb there. use a tape measure measure distance butt cap to your thumb. learn conversion of inches to points to cm. will post that later have to go to work. i would play tennis better and contribute to the boards more if i didnt have to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I hope so. I added leather grips to the Heads and did not think they would be 9pts HL. I may end up getting that Alpha thing to measure balance. I know the MGPMP on the TW sepcs page lists 6 pts HL. Could a leather grip cause a 3 pts swing???:shock:

Yes, it could.
 

Azzurri

Legend
I added a TW 22-1.55mm grip (the thicker one). Not sure of the weight, but it was certainly heavier than the HydroSorb I removed, so 3pts could happen.
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
... Trust your guts, if it measure right, feels right, it must be right.

Go hit some balls n stop fretting over the racquets LOL!

mawashi
 

Azzurri

Legend
no fretts at all. I am just starting to gain an interest in this. I am probably going to order an Alpha board and just tinker with racquets. Ever since Drakulie began his tinkering, I just got very interested. I thought to myself "why not make some minor changes and play test the same racquet with different modifications"? I am not a pro, but if it works for them , then why not??

I think this may be a small hobby. I actually may buy another MGPMP just to tinker with and see what I like the best. You know, take notes on specific mods I would make and decide which one felt the best.

But I just need to make proper measurements. I know the weight and length is correct, but had some trouble with balance. thanks again for you help..it is appreciated.:)
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
no fretts at all. I am just starting to gain an interest in this. I am probably going to order an Alpha board and just tinker with racquets. Ever since Drakulie began his tinkering, I just got very interested. I thought to myself "why not make some minor changes and play test the same racquet with different modifications"? I am not a pro, but if it works for them , then why not??

I think this may be a small hobby. I actually may buy another MGPMP just to tinker with and see what I like the best. You know, take notes on specific mods I would make and decide which one felt the best.

But I just need to make proper measurements. I know the weight and length is correct, but had some trouble with balance. thanks again for you help..it is appreciated.:)

Your're welcome. As for me I'm done with messing about with my frames as it is just too much of a hassle, I'll just leave this to the professionals like Sven. I'll just give him a holler n he'll do the rest for me :).

On another note, don't go overboard with the messing about, often over modification will result in a quick reset to default setting as it plays better stock LOL!

All the best mate,

mawashi
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I added a TW 22-1.55mm grip (the thicker one). Not sure of the weight, but it was certainly heavier than the HydroSorb I removed, so 3pts could happen.

Yup... I weighed the TW leather grips recently... Uncut they are 36 grams and 30 grams respectively. That's approximately an ounce after installation.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
no fretts at all. I am just starting to gain an interest in this. I am probably going to order an Alpha board and just tinker with racquets. Ever since Drakulie began his tinkering, I just got very interested. I thought to myself "why not make some minor changes and play test the same racquet with different modifications"? I am not a pro, but if it works for them , then why not??

I think this may be a small hobby. I actually may buy another MGPMP just to tinker with and see what I like the best. You know, take notes on specific mods I would make and decide which one felt the best.

But I just need to make proper measurements. I know the weight and length is correct, but had some trouble with balance. thanks again for you help..it is appreciated.:)

I smell a racquet addiction on the horizon :)
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
Yup... I weighed the TW leather grips recently... Uncut they are 36 grams and 30 grams respectively. That's approximately an ounce after installation.

30-35g sheeze, that's not grip leather, it's shoe leather LOL! JK

I smell a racquet addiction on the horizon :)

Yup, smells like we got another addict! LOL!

mawashi
 

larry10s

Hall of Fame
if it wasnt for all the tinkerer addicts we would not have the great sources of info on these boards. i am now a recovering tinkerer addict , excessive demoer, since i settled on one spec bought several vantage racquets and am leaning to play tennis where i do not constantly have to adjust for feel power etc. my game, timing, touch and feel have improved sinced i cant blame the racquet on my misses (too bad great excuse lol ) and there is a consistency that you get used to . the pros dont tinker much that is why there are paintjobs. i do not wish to discourager the tinkerers its a lot of fun but azzzurri once you start it will suck you in for a long while. have fun doing it .it is a blast to have "new "toy to try any time you make a modification
 

Azzurri

Legend
Your're welcome. As for me I'm done with messing about with my frames as it is just too much of a hassle, I'll just leave this to the professionals like Sven. I'll just give him a holler n he'll do the rest for me :).

On another note, don't go overboard with the messing about, often over modification will result in a quick reset to default setting as it plays better stock LOL!

All the best mate,

mawashi

Funny thing is I may not be tinkering much after all. if the balance I got is true on my heads, then 9pts is perfect. I just wanted it to be more HL for S&V.
 

Azzurri

Legend
Yup... I weighed the TW leather grips recently... Uncut they are 36 grams and 30 grams respectively. That's approximately an ounce after installation.

so the TW letaher grips are 36 grams???? what is the weight of a typical grip then?
 
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