What is wrong with Thiem?

Meles

Bionic Poster
thiem-pk_bd740_f_304x171.jpg

In the press conference after the R2 Match vs Gasquet in Vienna Thiem said he would skip the Paris Masters due to 'ongoing physical problems only a few people know about, which burden me' and that he didn't want specify in which body part.

Further he said 'I felt there was something going on for some time now'.

The next day Thiem announced he would play Paris after his doctor said he's fit to play.:rolleyes:

This mysterious unknown problem that only a few people know about has impacted Thiem's hard court game in a very specific way:
ThiemHardDemise.png



It's really quite bizarre. Thiem's 2nd serve points won are down severely from early 2017 and the rest of his career to only 48.3%.:( The amazing thing is at the same time Thiem is breaking opponents more than ever and at a career high for first serve points won at 74.8%.

The logical conclusion is that Thiem's 2nd serve is the main culprit, but what kind of injury would only affect a kick serve yet leave the rest of his game largely intact?:confused: What is wrong with Thiem lol?:rolleyes:
 
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Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
thiem-pk_bd740_f_304x171.jpg

In the press conference after the R2 Match vs Gasquet in Vienna Thiem said he would skip the Paris Masters due to 'ongoing physical problems only a few people know about, which burden me' and that he didn't want specify in which body part.

Further he said 'I felt there was something going on for some time now'.

The next day Thiem announced he would play Paris after his doctor said he's fit to play.:rolleyes:

This mysterious unknown problem that only a few people know about has impacted Thiem's hard court game in a very specific way:
ThiemHardDemise.png

@Gary Duane approved.:cool:

It's really quite bizarre. Thiem's 2nd serve points won are down severely from early 2017 and the rest of his career to only 48.3%.:( The amazing thing is at the same time Thiem is breaking opponents more than ever and at a career high for first serve points won at 74.8%.

The logical conclusion is that Thiem's 2nd serve is the main culprit, but what kind of injury would only affect a kick serve yet leave the rest of his game largely intact?:confused: What is wrong with Thiem lol?:rolleyes:

Be very careful of that Brk%. It has to be wrong.

If you add hold and break it's 53.95% of games won, WAY OFF.

The correct figure is around 52.4% of games won, and that would mean around 30% of return games in this season, which is still very good, if we can trust the other figures. But at this point I'm very suspicious of all of them.

If you are getting your figures from TA, beware. They are really off right now.

And that is flat out wrong.

What I can tell you is that he is winning games at about the same % as earlier in the year, but he's in a slump because he's losing close matches and is not doing well in TBs.

The problem with these figures for points won on 1st and 2nd serve is that we need two sources. Normally TA agrees very well with the ATP at the end of the year, and in years when the ATP is flat out wrong, TA corrects.

But if two sources do not agree, you can't trust any of the sources.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Be very careful of that Brk%. It has to be wrong.

If you add hold and break it's 53.95% of games won, WAY OFF.

The correct figure is around 52.4% of games won, and that would mean around 30% of return games in this season, which is still very good, if we can trust the other figures. But at this point I'm very suspicious of all of them.

If you are getting your figures from TA, beware. They are really off right now.

And that is flat out wrong.

What I can tell you is that he is winning games at about the same % as earlier in the year, but he's in a slump because he's losing close matches and is not doing well in TBs.

The problem with these figures for points won on 1st and 2nd serve is that we need two sources. Normally TA agrees very well with the ATP at the end of the year, and in years when the ATP is flat out wrong, TA corrects.

But if two sources do not agree, you can't trust any of the sources.
Well I'm not really looking at the hard games won data from TA, so the points analysis holds and I've not seen any serious issues with the points data. Only TA allows you to scrape specific date ranges so it's the only game in town.;)

I can tell Tennis Abstract's leaders data has not been updated recently as they have Thiem at 18-12 in the hard court leaders instead of the current 19-16, so their leaders data has not been updated since the US Open.:rolleyes: They show 54.3% games won, but this is through US Open.

Ultimate Tennis Statistics uses the TA database and does have current hard court games won data. Let's see how current..... Ferrer shows as 220 games won on TA leaderboard through US Open. Ultimate now has him at 278 games won, but is this up until Vienna or through his last match at Vienna? ....
Matchstat has the following matches for Ferrer which agrees with tennis abstract:
R32 I Hard Kyle Edmund David Ferrer 6-2 7-6(5) H2H 1.70 - 2.10 --------- 8 games won
42 / 2017 Antwerp
QF I Hard Diego Sebastian Schwartzman David Ferrer 7-5 6-2 H2H 1.72 - 2.10 ------- 7 games won
R16 I Hard David Ferrer Steve Darcis 7-5 5-7 6-3 H2H 1.50 - 2.50 ---------- 18 games won
R32 I Hard David Ferrer Stefano Travaglia 4-6 6-4 7-6(3) H2H 1.30 - 3.40----- 17 games won

we are short 8 games it seems.....
R128 Hard Mikhail Kukushkin David Ferrer 4-6 6-3 6-2 6-1 H2H 4.50 - 1.20 ------ 12 games won

:confused: I feel your pain on the games won data from Tennis Abstract. I believe the view from Ultimate Tennis Statistics is superior of the data and they are scraping very nicely.
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=6219

The above is the link to Thiem, but sadly you'll have to go to the statistics pull down under his name to see ALL the data and filter for surface. The address stays the same when operating the filters so one can't directly link to their data. I suggest you check some of the data you collect and trust on games with Ultimate Tennis Statistics and see if you trust it.:p They have Thiem at just under 53% games won which sounds about right given his great performance on break points and saving break points. The thing I don't like about ultimate is they don't show the matches data to verify. Since they use the tennis abstract linking into their database with its perfect individual match data, I believe it is completely valid to use TAs view to check raw match data. It's all from the same database, but Ulitmate does a much, much better job of showing everything to perfection with their queries of the data.:p

I've not run into major issues with points data with TA and so will continue to use for the custom ranges allowed.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Violent FH but with a healthy swing. I don't see the problem in that.

My vote for the lower back serving issue
I think I was but one of many who speculated early on that the excessive violence in his FH will one day cause him issues. Having said that, I have no way of knowing if his current problems are related.
I've watched a ton of matches and the one thing I do notice is his forehand level relates to his serve level. If he's hitting the forehand really well he's invariably serving well and vice versa. This is visible to my eyes watching his matches.

The points data clearly shows the serve level is an issue, and it may be the forehand also becomes an issue, but it doesn't clobber his stats on return and first serve.

As a Thiem fan this injury issue is discouraging as it is dangerous in the long run.

The one encouraging thing is that if he were healthy and was winning 53% of 2nd serve points instead of 48% he'd be up in the 2nd tier on hard courts with players like Goffin and Cilic. Good enough to win more hard court events in his career and still some hope in the long, long run that his game might get good enough to sneak a hard court major and some masters 1000s.:D
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Thiem’s got a really long stroke, especially that backhand. To get mustard on his ground strokes he needs to be camped well behind the baseline.

Of course this works on clay. I don’t see how his stroke mechanics translate to a successful hard court player.

The only player I’ve seen that can successfully camp out that far behind the baseline on all surfaces is Nadal. And that too because his BH can be flattened out and he’s usually tactically on point.

Thiem needs to employ more strategy and acquire playing patterns that can translate to a variety of surfaces. I’d say that’s his biggest hurdle at this point.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Well I'm not really looking at the hard games won data from TA, so the points analysis holds and I've not seen any serious issues with the points data. Only TA allows you to scrape specific date ranges so it's the only game in town.;)

I can tell Tennis Abstract's leaders data has not been updated recently as they have Thiem at 18-12 in the hard court leaders instead of the current 19-16, so their leaders data has not been updated since the US Open.:rolleyes: They show 54.3% games won, but this is through US Open.

Ultimate Tennis Statistics uses the TA database and does have current hard court games won data. Let's see how current..... Ferrer shows as 220 games won on TA leaderboard through US Open. Ultimate now has him at 278 games won, but is this up until Vienna or through his last match at Vienna? ....
Matchstat has the following matches for Ferrer which agrees with tennis abstract:
R32 I Hard Kyle Edmund David Ferrer 6-2 7-6(5) H2H 1.70 - 2.10 --------- 8 games won
42 / 2017 Antwerp
QF I Hard Diego Sebastian Schwartzman David Ferrer 7-5 6-2 H2H 1.72 - 2.10 ------- 7 games won
R16 I Hard David Ferrer Steve Darcis 7-5 5-7 6-3 H2H 1.50 - 2.50 ---------- 18 games won
R32 I Hard David Ferrer Stefano Travaglia 4-6 6-4 7-6(3) H2H 1.30 - 3.40----- 17 games won

we are short 8 games it seems.....
R128 Hard Mikhail Kukushkin David Ferrer 4-6 6-3 6-2 6-1 H2H 4.50 - 1.20 ------ 12 games won

:confused: I feel your pain on the games won data from Tennis Abstract. I believe the view from Ultimate Tennis Statistics is superior of the data and they are scraping very nicely.
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=6219

The above is the link to Thiem, but sadly you'll have to go to the statistics pull down under his name to see ALL the data and filter for surface. The address stays the same when operating the filters so one can't directly link to their data. I suggest you check some of the data you collect and trust on games with Ultimate Tennis Statistics and see if you trust it.:p They have Thiem at just under 53% games won which sounds about right given his great performance on break points and saving break points. The thing I don't like about ultimate is they don't show the matches data to verify. Since they use the tennis abstract linking into their database with its perfect individual match data, I believe it is completely valid to use TAs view to check raw match data. It's all from the same database, but Ulitmate does a much, much better job of showing everything to perfection with their queries of the data.:p

I've not run into major issues with points data with TA and so will continue to use for the custom ranges allowed.
I'm pretty sure TA will get their act together soon. Unlike the ATP they correct. The first time I saw correct data for 2003 was from TA.

For a couple players I've actually gone through match by match on the ATP to compare, so their list of matches for modern players is very accurate.

I have Thiem with 15 matches after the grass season.

52.58% of games

I count TBs, but that won't change the total much because his record in TBs is not that different.

His results in the first half and second half of the HC season are incredibly similar in games. What has hurt him are four close losses, three that he lost by only one game and another where he won more games - DelPo.

I can be reasonably certain of being correct because I simply scrape the matches and let the math take care of itself.

The difference on clay is monumental. Almost 59% of games, only two losses other than to Nadal, and one of those two to Djokovic, one of the best clay players of this era. The reason why my figures are about a % higher than the ATP is that it doesn't count TBs, but we need to - he won 75% of them.

If he is going to win slams, it just about has to start with RG.
 

George Turner

Hall of Fame
I've watched a ton of matches and the one thing I do notice is his forehand level relates to his serve level. If he's hitting the forehand really well he's invariably serving well and vice versa. This is visible to my eyes watching his matches.

The points data clearly shows the serve level is an issue, and it may be the forehand also becomes an issue, but it doesn't clobber his stats on return and first serve.

As a Thiem fan this injury issue is discouraging as it is dangerous in the long run.

The one encouraging thing is that if he were healthy and was winning 53% of 2nd serve points instead of 48% he'd be up in the 2nd tier on hard courts with players like Goffin and Cilic. Good enough to win more hard court events in his career and still some hope in the long, long run that his game might get good enough to sneak a hard court major and some masters 1000s.:D

Thiem has as much chance of winning a hardcourt major as Goffin.

Unlike Thiem, Goffin doesn't seem to have any fans. At least Thiem's got that going for him. :)
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
Thiem has as much chance of winning a hardcourt major as Goffin.

Unlike Thiem, Goffin doesn't seem to have any fans. At least Thiem's got that going for him. :)
Goffin is a nice dude, I like him.
Oh, and Roger Federer is another fan of his game, maybe you've heard of him.


And it looks like some back issue to me, but then his doctor would be insane to tell him to play Paris, because tennis will never ever make your lower back better, so who knows what's really going on.
 

George Turner

Hall of Fame
Goffin is a nice dude, I like him.
Oh, and Roger Federer is another fan of his game, maybe you've heard of him.


And it looks like some back issue to me, but then his doctor would be insane to tell him to play Paris, because tennis will never ever make your lower back better, so who knows what's really going on.

That's not a criticism of Goffin. It's just no one hypes him to win hardcourt majors like they do Thiem. Are Thiems chances really better than Goffins? :rolleyes:

At least Thiem will get a bit of rest before Paris. Must have strategically tanked his last match ;)
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
That's not a criticism of Goffin. It's just no one hypes him to win hardcourt majors like they do Thiem. Are Thiems chances really better than Goffins? :rolleyes:

At least Thiem will get a bit of rest before Paris. Must have strategically tanked his last match ;)
Ah okay, sorry. Sounded like unnecessary bashing of Goffin.
I think he has even more talent than Thiem, he just lacks the physical attributes to back it up effectively.
But yea, he probably won't win majors.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
I figured it out. Mladenovic was concerned about his inability to perform, so he wanted to check with the doc about it.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Nothing wrong with him .

He has been exposed outside of clay. He is physically very fit hence he can slug out clay matches with court positioning like Rafa and keep hitting those heavy backhands all day

On fast courts he is a waste

He is mentally inept during big points.

Once you lose, confidence takes a beating and aura is gone . It has a cascading effect.

May be he should be ranked like Kohlschreiber in the 20's
 

3lite

Professional
It's really quite bizarre. Thiem's 2nd serve points won are down severely from early 2017 and the rest of his career to only 48.3%.:( The amazing thing is at the same time Thiem is breaking opponents more than ever and at a career high for first serve points won at 74.8%.

The logical conclusion is that Thiem's 2nd serve is the main culprit, but what kind of injury would only affect a kick serve yet leave the rest of his game largely intact?:confused: What is wrong with Thiem lol?:rolleyes:

Bad tennis education. Or rather, incorrect understanding of the game. He, like many other players today with bad serves, believe that there is an elemental difference between the 'first' and the 'second' serve when in actuality, the only difference is in its linguist.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
I think I was but one of many who speculated early on that the excessive violence in his FH will one day cause him issues. Having said that, I have no way of knowing if his current problems are related.
I think the violence of his whole game is extremely wearing on the body, but the same is true of Nadal, and he's still going.

But I do expect more injuries from these guys who launch themselves at every ball. I just don't see that as being consistent with long careers.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Nothing's wrong with Thiem. He's just not as good as some people think he is.
Nothing wrong with him .

He has been exposed outside of clay. He is physically very fit hence he can slug out clay matches with court positioning like Rafa and keep hitting those heavy backhands all day

On fast courts he is a waste

He is mentally inept during big points.

Once you lose, confidence takes a beating and aura is gone . It has a cascading effect.

May be he should be ranked like Kohlschreiber in the 20's
Sorry to break it to you, but this all points to a minor physical issue that will be gone by 2018.:eek: Thiem set to cause trouble in 2018 on all surfaces and start winning big titles on clay.:cool:
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Bresnik has military mentality:confused:
Pretty scary when he's got Thiem to the point where he doesn't want to play a tournament. He's been with Thiem so long almost wonder if he's a bit like a bad tennis parent in some respects. Think this has me on the bye bye Bresnik bandwagon:
giphy.gif
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Pretty scary when he's got Thiem to the point where he doesn't want to play a tournament. He's been with Thiem so long almost wonder if he's a bit like a bad tennis parent in some respects. Think this has me on the bye bye Bresnik bandwagon:
giphy.gif

Imagine how many Slams Thiem would already be on without Bresnik.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Thiem set to cause trouble in 2018 on all surfaces and start winning big titles on clay.:cool:

Meles, didn't you say this at the beginning of the year: "Thiem set to cause trouble in 2017 on all surfaces and start winning big titles on clay." :eek:

He's probably never going to win a big title. Root for Shapo, who has a future! :D
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Meles, didn't you say this at the beginning of the year: "Thiem set to cause trouble in 2017 on all surfaces and start winning big titles on clay." :eek:

He's probably never going to win a big title. Root for Shapo, who has a future! :D
Almost did this year except for the injury issue. Thiem very much delivered on clay, but drawing Djoko and Rafa at QFs in Rome and Madrid not the best of luck.:oops:
 

Fabresque

Legend
About a few years ago when Thiem was just getting attention after the win over Wawrinka, a guy wrote in a YouTube comment section that he’s a good player, but his career will be hampered by lower back injuries because of his arch on the second serve. It’s a very generous arch which allows him to hit crazy kick seeves, but also the bend causes his back to have many issues... major or minor, this was coming.
 
Hi, will try to answers some questions on UTS data:

Ultimate Tennis Statistics uses the TA database and does have current hard court games won data. Let's see how current..... Ferrer shows as 220 games won on TA leaderboard through US Open. Ultimate now has him at 278 games won, but is this up until Vienna or through his last match at Vienna? ....
All UTS pages refresh data on Mondays, including statistics and performance figures (as it scraps ATP site, maybe some data is not available early Monday, but usually will be probably soon).
Only exceptions are Tournament Forecasts Pages, which try to include currently playing tournaments.

:confused: I feel your pain on the games won data from Tennis Abstract. I believe the view from Ultimate Tennis Statistics is superior of the data and they are scraping very nicely.
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=6219

The above is the link to Thiem, but sadly you'll have to go to the statistics pull down under his name to see ALL the data and filter for surface. The address stays the same when operating the filters so one can't directly link to their data.

Just added support for permalinks for statistics tab of Player profile page. You can now create an permalink URL for Thiem's Hard-Court 2017 statistics like this:
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=statistics&season=2017&surface=H

I suggest you check some of the data you collect and trust on games with Ultimate Tennis Statistics and see if you trust it.:p They have Thiem at just under 53% games won which sounds about right given his great performance on break points and saving break points. The thing I don't like about ultimate is they don't show the matches data to verify.

You can get Thiem's match data on 2017 Hard-Court with this URL: http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=matches&season=2017&surface=H, but also a direct link to matches is added on statistics page under 'Matches Won' so you can navigate directly to underlying matches.
If you are @ Thiems performance page for 2017 hard-court (http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=performance&season=2017&surface=H), you can drill down to matches by clicking the performance bars.
 
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Meles

Bionic Poster
Hi, will try to answers some questions on UTS data:


All UTS pages refresh data on Mondays, including statistics and performance figures (as it scraps ATP site, maybe some data is not available early Monday, but usually will be probably soon).
Only exceptions are Tournament Forecasts Pages, which try to include currently playing tournaments.



Just added support for permalinks for statistics tab of Player profile page. You can now create an permalink URL for Thiem's Hard-Court 2017 statistics like this:
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=statistics&season=2017&surface=H



You can get Thiem's match data on 2017 Hard-Court with this URL: http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=matches&season=2017&surface=H, but also a direct link to matches is added on statistics page under 'Matches Won' so you can navigate directly to underlying matches.
If you are @ Thiems performance page for 2017 hard-court (http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=performance&season=2017&surface=H), you can drill down to matches by clicking the performance bars.
@Gary Duane time to get familiar with UT; we have an expert among us.:rolleyes::p
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Hi, will try to answers some questions on UTS data:


All UTS pages refresh data on Mondays, including statistics and performance figures (as it scraps ATP site, maybe some data is not available early Monday, but usually will be probably soon).
Only exceptions are Tournament Forecasts Pages, which try to include currently playing tournaments.



Just added support for permalinks for statistics tab of Player profile page. You can now create an permalink URL for Thiem's Hard-Court 2017 statistics like this:
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=statistics&season=2017&surface=H



You can get Thiem's match data on 2017 Hard-Court with this URL: http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=matches&season=2017&surface=H, but also a direct link to matches is added on statistics page under 'Matches Won' so you can navigate directly to underlying matches.
If you are @ Thiems performance page for 2017 hard-court (http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=performance&season=2017&surface=H), you can drill down to matches by clicking the performance bars.
How does the permalink work? Is there a button on the interface to do this? When I click on permalink it just scrambles back to the opening page for me with chrome/Windows 10.

Is it possible to filter stats and matches for a certain date range like hard courts since Wimbledon, etc.?
 
How does the permalink work? Is there a button on the interface to do this? When I click on permalink it just scrambles back to the opening page for me with chrome/Windows 10.

Is it possible to filter stats and matches for a certain date range like hard courts since Wimbledon, etc.?
Sorry, permalink for statistics/performance is currently manual, you need to manually enter URL.
You should be able to get directly to statistics page if you paste URL in the browser or click the link: http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=statistics&season=2017&surface=H

Currently not possible to filter stats by date, only by season and by last 52 weeks.
 
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Meles

Bionic Poster
Sorry, permalink for statistics/performance is currently manual, you need to manually enter URL.
You should be able to get directly to statistics page if you paste URL in the browser or click the link: http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Dominic Thiem&tab=statistics&season=2017&surface=H

Currently not possible to filter stats by date, only by season and by last 52 weeks.
Well you give some reason for still using tennis abstract.:D This would be awesome for surface leaderboards on hard courts and not aware of anyone doing that. At TA you have to pull one player at a time. Would be cool to pull historic data from US hard court series for US Open. I'd love to see that plus clay before RG historically.

Well, I'll try the manual linking to your data, as too lazy to host it myself most of the time.

It would be awesome if a version of data was available that was pasteable as text. I got to matchstat often and rather than paste a link like this:
https://matchstat.com/en/tennis/h2h-odds-bets/Marin Cilic/Jack Sock

I can get the matchstat data to paste as text easy and quite readable:
35/2016 R32 US Open Hard Jack Sock Marin Cilic 6-4 6-3 6-3 2.88 - 1.40
28/2016 USA v CRO - DC WG - QF Hard Jack Sock Marin Cilic 4-6 3-6 6-3 6-4 6-4

love the matchstat historical odds, but showing ranking at time of two players a fine substitute.

Openerarankings did a Wimbledon race this year. I used your data to drive a WTF race with your match odds and you might consider this in future WTF years when the race gets interesting:
2017WTFMakeOddsMeles.png


The above is an old view where I halved the Anderson odds and doubled Pouille. Not 100% confident with odds math as new thing for this attempted project. Would love to see your neural network brain do this for Paris next year.:p

Here is current view of above sheet (no longer updating):
2017WTFMakeOdds.png
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
About a few years ago when Thiem was just getting attention after the win over Wawrinka, a guy wrote in a YouTube comment section that he’s a good player, but his career will be hampered by lower back injuries because of his arch on the second serve. It’s a very generous arch which allows him to hit crazy kick seeves, but also the bend causes his back to have many issues... major or minor, this was coming.
You may have hit the nail on the head. Another poster here claimed Thiem had to make technique changes at beginning of 2017 and we of course know about the hip issues that cropped up 2nd half of 2016.

The thing that confounds a little is Thiem did have good 2nd serve stats on hard courts earlier this year, so it's really not the racquet change or technique change seemingly. The decay on 2nd serve may have started on clay as despite going up on all other stats, 2nd serve on clay did go down a tad this year two, but playing Nadal 4 times and Djoko twice easily could explain that minor blip.

From 53% to 48% really smells like injury issue exactly as you say. It could be so minor that Thiem and his physio have been ignoring, but the stats show a big problem. Watching him myself many, many times I'll say his Superkicker that arrived for clay in 2016 has declined and this is basically a big version of the 2nd serve. He also seemed to have a lot more depth and aggression on 2nd serve for a long time while now half the time the serve is middle of the box. Everything points to the serve and obvious stress on his body. He probably needs to retool the serve again and use the superkicker first much more rarely. On fast courts kick serves maybe not nearly as effective so perhaps time for a slice 2nd serve to be used much of the time to lighten the load.:confused:
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Meles, didn't you say this at the beginning of the year: "Thiem set to cause trouble in 2017 on all surfaces and start winning big titles on clay." :eek:

He's probably never going to win a big title. Root for Shapo, who has a future! :D
Would have happened if not for the Moya resurrection of Nadal's serve game.;)

Shapo has promising serve stats to be sure especially for his age, but he'll have to settle in next year for more study and a baseline against the top of the tour. Borna splashed at a young age with superlative stats and then his return game went down the drain.:( Hopefully Shapo likes those Auz Open courts, but he may prefer slower hard courts. A touch better net game and could really be something on grass. At this point Shapo is about like getting hyped for Thiem in 2014 when he started getting some wins against players. He's probably good, but too short a baseline. The tour may adjust to his game as well.:oops:
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Imagine how many Slams Thiem would already be on without Bresnik.
Another thread on TTW with some Bresnik comments on Paris. The guy really needs to go or a super coach brought on board. Magnus Norman retired from Wawa recently, but Thiem would be wise to get him on board for clay or something with a lighter time commitment.:p
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
@Gary Duane time to get familiar with UT; we have an expert among us.:rolleyes::p
The main problem I see in all the sites is that they piggy-back on each other, so mistakes get copied.

The latest shock for me is that when checking Borg's matches, even the matches the ATP has show wrong surfaces for a surprising number of events, and guess what surfaces are listed at TA? Usually the same ones.
 
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Well you give some reason for still using tennis abstract.:D This would be awesome for surface leaderboards on hard courts and not aware of anyone doing that. At TA you have to pull one player at a time. Would be cool to pull historic data from US hard court series for US Open. I'd love to see that plus clay before RG historically.
Hi,
Search filters by Date Range are added to UTS, you can search stats in http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/statsLeaders . By clicking 'Adv.' (Advanced Filters), additional filters including by date range are available.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
DOQ1O4gX0AANKgk

When your side job is being the Austrias version of James Bond you do get exhausted, maybe even injured. When other players are sleeping, Thiem is out there solving Austrias problems :p
 
Well you give some reason for still using tennis abstract.:D This would be awesome for surface leaderboards on hard courts and not aware of anyone doing that. At TA you have to pull one player at a time. Would be cool to pull historic data from US hard court series for US Open. I'd love to see that plus clay before RG historically.
UTS is just enhanced with date range filters for almost all searches (including performance and statistics).
For your case of pre-US Open or pre-RG stats, you can go to http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/statsLeaders, click 'Adv.' button to activate 'Advanced Filters' and enter desired date range and select the surface.
P.S. Also added are Indoor/Outdoor filters and best-of 3/5 filters.
 

Yoneyama

Hall of Fame
He's sheltering his back. Anyone who has Tennis TV, watch replays of Thiem early 2017 and compare them to recent tournaments. The back arching which people have mentioned before has been reduced and with it has come a weakened serve. I would say that he indeed has back issues. The outrageous full body forehand motion probably hasn't helped either. His backhand tends to be one big swing of the hitting arm too, he doesn't use his left arm to stabilise as much as other OHBH players.

I have had chronic back issues for over 5 years and I can tell you right now arching my back that hard on a serve would be very unpleasant...
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
He's sheltering his back. Anyone who has Tennis TV, watch replays of Thiem early 2017 and compare them to recent tournaments. The back arching which people have mentioned before has been reduced and with it has come a weakened serve. I would say that he indeed has back issues. The outrageous full body forehand motion probably hasn't helped either. His backhand tends to be one big swing of the hitting arm too, he doesn't use his left arm to stabilise as much as other OHBH players.

I have had chronic back issues for over 5 years and I can tell you right now arching my back that hard on a serve would be very unpleasant...

Thats interesting. When you have had injuries you can see it on players when they are sheltering it. I never had back injuries and for me its hard to notice. I have knee injuries and I can see when Rafa is troubled w it.

Do you think 1HBH tend to get more back injuries? Looks like it. Do u have 1HB?

Thiem has a similar serve to Federer who also have back issues and a 1BH.
 
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