What level are these players?

jmnk

Hall of Fame
A friend of mine asked me to perform semi-scientific poll on what level he might be. Here's a video (yes, unedited, a lot of dead time). He promised to provide more footage but enjoy for now.
Edit: another video added
Edit: third clip added, after players switched sides.
 
Last edited:

megamind

Hall of Fame
I'd say 4.0

Can give a better rating if we see the opposite (black shirt boi returning closer the camera)
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
These guys probably beat me 75% of the time on clay. White shirt has a nice run around BH inside out FH. Love it.
 

EP1998

Semi-Pro
I didn't watch all of it and mostly looked at the guy in the lighter shirt since he was easier to see. From what I saw he is a very nice player. He moves his feet, moves up and back well, moves the ball around, balanced, had a lot of variety. He hit some drops, hit some chips etc. comes over it, came to the net etc. Green clay doesnt show the pace and spin as well either. Guy is high level. Very nice hitting!
 

Wise one

Hall of Fame
A friend of mine asked me to perform semi-scientific poll on what level he might be. Here's a video (yes, unedited, a lot of dead time). He promised to provide more footage but enjoy for now.
Which one is he?
 

tpro2000

Rookie
would you happen to have any videos of 3.5/4.0 players in your area?
Honestly I don't. I have to rate players at the club that I work all the time so I kind of go by a few key topics. The guy in the white is obviously more offensive (little better traditional form), etc, but also tends to not stay in the rallies long - wants to hit more outright winners (again, just going by the videos).

The other player is definitely more defensive, some crafty spins. If I had to say, I'd call the guy in white a higher end 3.5 but maybe could lose to a moonballer. The guy in black a mid-high 3.5 based off matchup.

I like both of their footwork though. I think they both have upside to move into that more solid 4.0 level.

I know it also can depend on where you live as to what levels can float to. I hope I didn't offend either one! Seemed like an even matchup
 

megamind

Hall of Fame
white shirt guy is either a cheat, or terrible at line calls

OP, make sure u let them know about that
 

tonylg

Professional
I'd rate them a high ITN 7. If the white shirt guy has a better serve than black shirt, he might be a 6.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
around 2:44-2:47 in the 2nd video

ball clipped the line, but was called out!
I saw that one too. I think it's a tough angle with the video, but definitely a close call. I thought he was hooking the guy in black on a couple a good serves, but it was a thumbs up lol
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
white shirt guy is either a cheat, or terrible at line calls

OP, make sure u let them know about that
around 2:44-2:47 in the 2nd video

ball clipped the line, but was called out!
funny that you mentioned that call. The player in black did question that call too. So, per the dude that took the video, here's the area of the court before and after the bounce (you can see it is exactly the same are by marks on the line)
before


after


there's no way you can tell from that if the mark touches the line. If anything it doesn't. The dude in white was right on top of that ball, I think it is safe to assume he did see the mark and called it as he saw it. (and yes, the other call, that was 'thumbs up' and not an out call).
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
A friend of mine asked me to perform semi-scientific poll on what level he might be. Here's a video (yes, unedited, a lot of dead time). He promised to provide more footage but enjoy for now.
Edit: another video added

Probably between high 3.5 and 4.0 with a good base of skills, but movement and some very routine ball errors. Kinda typical in those rating levels. Also depends on if they are playing 18's or 40+ really.
 

Dan R

Semi-Pro
These guys are 4.0s. I think what's making it difficult to judge is neither one of them are power players, but they have good shot making skills and use off speed shots well. I would guess they can handle power well, and if they can they would do just fine with 4.0s.
 
4.0 for the light shirt for sure. 2:00-2:30 is what I based my opinion on. Now, high 4.0 in Texas would outgun him, but he can easily beat 3.5 singles players and even pushes based on his variety of shots displayed in that 30 seconds.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
4.0 for the light shirt for sure. 2:00-2:30 is what I based my opinion on. Now, high 4.0 in Texas would outgun him, but he can easily beat 3.5 singles players and even pushes based on his variety of shots displayed in that 30 seconds.
I keep hearing things about this high 4.0 in texas . So i looked it up on youtube and find a strong 4.0 in texas. Doesn't look like this 4.0 texas can outgun light shirt at all:
 

tpro2000

Rookie
I keep hearing things about this high 4.0 in texas . So i looked it up on youtube and find a strong 4.0 in texas. Doesn't look like this 4.0 texas can outgun light shirt at all:
No disrespect to these two guys, but this doesn't look like 4.0 to me. This also looks a bit like NY 3.5s. Again, I know it's all relative to area and player pool.

I know it was discussed before, but the 4.5 team that was at nationals out of Houston in 2017 were 5.0s that fixed their rating in 2016 to move down and try to win 4.5. They were so out of level it was scary. It took other self-rated guys out of Mid-Atlantic I believe to knock off one of their singles player. Both Texas' singles and the guy from Mid-Atlantic were subsequently bumped to 5.5 after ratings came out...
 

nicklane1

New User
Based on North East standards, probably both are 3.5. Nice form. Dark shirt has a consistent serve. Movement is average. Too many unforced errors early in points or could be 4.0.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Based on North East standards, probably both are 3.5. Nice form. Dark shirt has a consistent serve. Movement is average. Too many unforced errors early in points or could be 4.0.
Yeah, per the TT ratings standard, these guys are indeed 3.5. After all, practice videos of Fed, Delpo and Raonic in the past were rated 4.5 on the board.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
No disrespect to these two guys, but this doesn't look like 4.0 to me. This also looks a bit like NY 3.5s. Again, I know it's all relative to area and player pool.

I know it was discussed before, but the 4.5 team that was at nationals out of Houston in 2017 were 5.0s that fixed their rating in 2016 to move down and try to win 4.5. They were so out of level it was scary. It took other self-rated guys out of Mid-Atlantic I believe to knock off one of their singles player. Both Texas' singles and the guy from Mid-Atlantic were subsequently bumped to 5.5 after ratings came out...
You can see from the video that those guys were playing 4.0 sectional in texas. One player is #3 seed. Fact is fact.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
You can see from the video that those guys were playing 4.0 sectional in texas. One player is #3 seed. Fact is fact.
Yes, I know - but the level of play is what I'm watching. They wouldn't win a set in an Eastern 4.0 Sectional against other true singles players. I think they're on par with the white shirt guy in the OP - with the white shirt guy having better technique.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Yes, I know - but the level of play is what I'm watching. They wouldn't win a set in an Eastern 4.0 Sectional against other true singles players. I think they're on par with the white shirt guy in the OP - with the white shirt guy having better technique.
Ok, so eastern region is now better than Texas? I'm confused...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

FiReFTW

Legend
What? 3.5 ntrp? TTW sure has softened up their ratings, in the past they would be 2.5 at best, I guess TTW doesn't want to ofend people as much anymore so they rate people abnormaly high now on their scale.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
Ok, so eastern region is now better than Texas? I'm confused...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Not by any means - only regarding the players in the videos shown. That's defintely not what i meant. Texas, Cali, FL, SC typically kick our ass at a national haha. Our women's teams at the 4.0/4.5 level though are solid though (for whatever reason).
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Not by any means - only regarding the players in the videos shown. That's defintely not what i meant. Texas, Cali, FL, SC typically kick our ass at a national haha. Our women's teams at the 4.0/4.5 level though are solid though (for whatever reason).
Ok, so I'm confused. The other poster showed a video of 4.0 Texas sectional match and stated that those Texas players would be more less even with the players in the OP video. You are saying that players in OP video would not have a chance against Eastern region 4.0 players. From that it follows that eastern region must be better than Texas, no?
 

tpro2000

Rookie
Ok, so I'm confused. The other poster showed a video of 4.0 Texas sectional match and stated that those Texas players would be more less even with the players in the OP video. You are saying that players in OP video would not have a chance against Eastern region 4.0 players. From that it follows that eastern region must be better than Texas, no?
Correct - I was only comparing the two guys in your original video, and the two guys in the Texas video. Not comparing Sections as a whole.

I was at the 4.0 eastern sectional in August coaching one of my ladies teams in another NTRP level. The players in the Texas video would not have done well at all in 4.0 singles at our sectionals. Most of the guys seemed to be trending to 4.5 (the actual 1st singles at least). Last year as well, another teaching pro from my area was rated a 4.0 and was cruising through sectionals until he ran into a self rated player from NJ. But his team still went to 4.0 nationals.

I know local league play the levels vary, but sectionals (nationals) are a very different story.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Correct - I was only comparing the two guys in your original video, and the two guys in the Texas video. Not comparing Sections as a whole.

I was at the 4.0 eastern sectional in August coaching one of my ladies teams in another NTRP level. The players in the Texas video would not have done well at all in 4.0 singles at our sectionals. Most of the guys seemed to be trending to 4.5 (the actual 1st singles at least). Last year as well, another teaching pro from my area was rated a 4.0 and was cruising through sectionals until he ran into a self rated player from NJ. But his team still went to 4.0 nationals.

I know local league play the levels vary, but sectionals (nationals) are a very different story.
ok, I'm clearly not following your logic..... The #3seed from Texas sectional would not have done well in eastern sectional - but yet eastern section is overall not stronger than Texas section. hmm....
 
Like one person said, the levels in Texas are for team tennis, like nationals. This is most certainly a single person not team sectionals tournament, if either of these guys played a singles line at 4.0 even in just Dallas their team would be doomed.

The better players usually don't play these for fear of the bump up. Also, those ranked higher in individual tournaments in Texas, and I suspect this #3 guy, get there by sheer volume of tourneys played. I even had a friend at 4.0 with a 50/50 team tennis record at #1 singles in Dallas, become #1 at 4.0 in TEXAS, by playing every tournament offered every weekend, all over state, getting points. Kind of like a Nascar driver just racking up quarterfinal points over and over, but that gets you the # 1 ranking even if you never beat anyone head to head that is in the top 5.

But, yes, I can't disagree that this particular Texas labelled video does not show another level compared to the OP video.
 
No disrespect to these two guys, but this doesn't look like 4.0 to me. This also looks a bit like NY 3.5s. Again, I know it's all relative to area and player pool.

I know it was discussed before, but the 4.5 team that was at nationals out of Houston in 2017 were 5.0s that fixed their rating in 2016 to move down and try to win 4.5. They were so out of level it was scary. It took other self-rated guys out of Mid-Atlantic I believe to knock off one of their singles player. Both Texas' singles and the guy from Mid-Atlantic were subsequently bumped to 5.5 after ratings came out...
I think some people take it personally when I say Texas and maybe Cali and Florida are a different level than other states. Look, I am not saying you are bad or whatever, I even said the guys in the video are legit 4.0. But, I stand by my opinion that they would get blown off the court in Texas at high level 4.0. The mix of tanking players, and there are armies of them, keep the best 4.0 legitimate players from ever getting bumped up to where they should be, so there is layer of 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5 tankers in Texas keeping the best real players at 3.5-4.5 from getting bumped up. This is in teamtennis, they don't bother with tournaments that are individual doubles teams or singles. The tankers stick to combo, mixed, team etc.
It's not an insult or a brag, but it needs to be said in order for my opinion about where a player would be rated where I live to make sense, otherwise my opinion will be misunderstood. Yes, plenty of Texas 4.0 would destroy the OP video participants at singles.
 

tpro2000

Rookie
I think some people take it personally when I say Texas and maybe Cali and Florida are a different level than other states. Look, I am not saying you are bad or whatever, I even said the guys in the video are legit 4.0. But, I stand by my opinion that they would get blown off the court in Texas at high level 4.0. The mix of tanking players, and there are armies of them, keep the best 4.0 legitimate players from ever getting bumped up to where they should be, so there is layer of 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5 tankers in Texas keeping the best real players at 3.5-4.5 from getting bumped up. This is in teamtennis, they don't bother with tournaments that are individual doubles teams or singles. The tankers stick to combo, mixed, team etc.
It's not an insult or a brag, but it needs to be said in order for my opinion about where a player would be rated where I live to make sense, otherwise my opinion will be misunderstood. Yes, plenty of Texas 4.0 would destroy the OP video participants at singles.
Everyone is absolutely right. I have no VIDEO proof, because I actually don't know that many guys who feel the need to video matches. But, league match results sure, which doesn't matter because it's still subject to area.

Your point is right on - "high level 4.0" anywhere would blow those guys off the court.

maybe i missed something. is the Texas video a team sectional and that's 1st singles, or a 4.0 men's ntrp sectional tournament? if so we know that tournament rankings can be very different than usta team league play (assuming the tournament players ONLY play tournaments).

My friend was top 10 Nationally in the 35s, and he's a legit 5.0. But his ranking was so high because he played a bunch of west coast events that were all close in location, yet in 5.0 league play he was at best winning half the time at singles.
 
Oh it's definitely not team Texas sectionals, like I said, that video level "Texas" would not be competitive in Dallas 4.0 sectionals, not even in Dallas 4.0 wild card playoffs (where 2nd place teams vie for a spot in cities)
 
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