What Makes A Good Tennis Coach?

S

Scribbles

Rookie
Hi everyone,

I'm in my mid 20's with above average athletic abilities. I started tennis about 3 1/2 years ago and absolutely fell in love with the sport. I've had 3 private lesson coaches over this period (as well as clinics with several other coaches). I'm on the higher end of 3.5 and can hang with some lower 4.0 players. My goal is to reach the 4.5/5.0 level and to be honest, I'm a little impatient. I don't mind putting in the time and effort to get there but I feel like I'm lacking direction. I've switched coaches several times because I would feel as though I plateau with a certain coach. Spending quite a bit of money for lessons and not seeing clear improvement is frustrating. I know that some of it has to do with skills that just takes time to develop (tracking the ball, staying loose and calm under pressure conditions, repetition with strokes, etc.).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that many coaches can take a person who has never played tennis before slowly to a 3.5 level but few coaches can take a player to 4.5+. I want to maximize my private lesson experience otherwise I feel as though I'm just wasting money.

What do you look for in a high-level coach?

What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?

Thanks for any advice. :)
 
A high level coach understands the physics behind each stroke.

For example, any coach can look at your backhand and say that your making too big of a loop, but they can't tell you to bring the racket across your waist and drop by pulling the right hand forward and relaxing your wrists and using the kinetic chain for power rather than brute force.
 
First and most importantly find a coach who's taken rec players to the 4.5+ level. There aren't many and they're expensive, but you're better off taking a few lessons with a good coach than many lessons with a bad one. If you can't find a coach like that, then go to one who trains ranked juniors but make sure he cares about you and isn't just taking your money. You have to remember though that most of the effort will have to come from you. If you aren't willing to put in the work outside lessons, you won't make it no matter how good your coach is. Also ignore trolls like the previous poster.
 
Should a high level coach sit down and create a plan with you to reach your goal (4.0, 4.5, etc.)?

I've had so many private lessons turn into "what do you want to work on today?"

How do I find good coaches? Ex-college players? Coaches that teach high level juniors?
 
Scribbles said:
Should a high level coach sit down and create a plan with you to reach your goal (4.0, 4.5, etc.)?

I've had so many private lessons turn into "what do you want to work on today?"

How do I find good coaches? Ex-college players? Coaches that teach high level juniors?
Click to expand...
Yes definitely.

Networking. Go to a tennis club or men's open, find 4.5+ players who've taken lessons as adults, and ask them who they recommend.
 
Last edited:
Scribbles said:
Hi everyone,

I'm in my mid 20's with above average athletic abilities. I started tennis about 3 1/2 years ago and absolutely fell in love with the sport. I've had 3 private lesson coaches over this period (as well as clinics with several other coaches). I'm on the higher end of 3.5 and can hang with some lower 4.0 players. My goal is to reach the 4.5/5.0 level and to be honest, I'm a little impatient. I don't mind putting in the time and effort to get there but I feel like I'm lacking direction. I've switched coaches several times because I would feel as though I plateau with a certain coach. Spending quite a bit of money for lessons and not seeing clear improvement is frustrating. I know that some of it has to do with skills that just takes time to develop (tracking the ball, staying loose and calm under pressure conditions, repetition with strokes, etc.).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that many coaches can take a person who has never played tennis before slowly to a 3.5 level but few coaches can take a player to 4.5+. I want to maximize my private lesson experience otherwise I feel as though I'm just wasting money.

What do you look for in a high-level coach?

What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?

Thanks for any advice. :)
Click to expand...

Just keep in mind that 5.0 is about the 97th percentile of NTRP-land. It's absolutely reasonable to think the average person will never get there. You're already past the median so going up a level will get exponentially more difficult.

So just because few coaches can take a player to 5.0 doesn't necessarily mean they are bad coaches; it could just mean that statistically, so few people make it.

Having said that, I'd look for a coach that could communicate well, was patient, and could explain things in multiple ways if you didn't understand the first one. In other words, avoid Thomas Daniels.

Explain what your goal is what what you're willing to do to achieve it: many coaches despair of students who put no effort in and expect the coach to magically improve their game. Show him/her you're serious about putting the work in so he knows he's not wasting his time on another wannabe.

Finally, give it some time. Getting to 5.0, unless you're phenomenally talented, will not be an easy journey. Plateaus are inevitable and not a sign of failure; some skills take longer to internalize than others and some students pick certain things up faster than others. Embrace the process of improvement and try not to fixate on NTRP; that will take care of itself.

Disclaimer: I'm not a coach, nor have I played one on TV.
 
1. Lives in Japan
2. Hates opposition
3. Speaks in cliches, white space, quotation marks, italics, and bold
4. Calls anyone with different ideas "stupid" or "vampires" or "clowns"
5. Has a $69.99 ebook on Amazon full of old ideas
6. Is completely useless other than to provide comic relief, yet is very annoying (Think Jar-Jar Binks)
 
styksnstryngs said:
1. Lives in Japan
2. Hates opposition
3. Speaks in cliches, white space, quotation marks, italics, and bold
4. Calls anyone with different ideas "stupid" or "vampires" or "clowns"
5. Has a $69.99 ebook on Amazon full of old ideas
6. Is completely useless other than to provide comic relief, yet is very annoying (Think Jar-Jar Binks)
Click to expand...

Slight correction on #4: "stupid clowns" and "energy vampires".
 
Scribbles said:
What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?. :)
Click to expand...

Most parents want a coach that will lie to them and tell them their kids are the greatest thing since sliced bread and they'll keep spending their money to find the best bullsh*tter they can. The best junior coaches are the honest ones that teach mental toughness first, then follow up with fitness training.
 
Thanks for all the responses.

Should it be a requirement that the coach I look for be able to play at the 4.5/5.0 level himself? Since this a technique coach, he should be able to demonstrate high level technique?

Because I've seen some high level juniors but with coaches who were lower level themselves
 
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It's sounds funny but you have to click with a coach. His/her communication style has to get through to you.

Some are dictatorial beasts while others are gentle, wannabe therapists...

I like coaches that have a system. I think also the main thing for you is to check out the students of any coach you're considering.
 
Scribbles said:
What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?
Click to expand...

We care about a good match between our son's abilities and the coaching techniques as well as a good fit between coaching style and our son's personality. But we care much more about maintaining order and discipline and teaching honesty and sportsmanship. We appreciate a coach who is very firm about the character issues but not-so firm about all the technique issues.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Just keep in mind that 5.0 is about the 97th percentile of NTRP-land. It's absolutely reasonable to think the average person will never get there. You're already past the median so going up a level will get exponentially more difficult.

So just because few coaches can take a player to 5.0 doesn't necessarily mean they are bad coaches; it could just mean that statistically, so few people make it.

Having said that, I'd look for a coach that could communicate well, was patient, and could explain things in multiple ways if you didn't understand the first one. In other words, avoid Thomas Daniels.

Explain what your goal is what what you're willing to do to achieve it: many coaches despair of students who put no effort in and expect the coach to magically improve their game. Show him/her you're serious about putting the work in so he knows he's not wasting his time on another wannabe.

Finally, give it some time. Getting to 5.0, unless you're phenomenally talented, will not be an easy journey. Plateaus are inevitable and not a sign of failure; some skills take longer to internalize than others and some students pick certain things up faster than others. Embrace the process of improvement and try not to fixate on NTRP; that will take care of itself.

Disclaimer: I'm not a coach, nor have I played one on TV.
Click to expand...


I cannot agree more. 5.0 is very tough to achieve, and very few players are capable of reaching that level. It should be very difficult to reach 5.0 in less than 10 years.

The worst thing to do is to copy the pros of today. Many of them have idiosyncrasies in their shots that have nothing to do with their success.
 
Scribbles said:
Hi everyone,

I'm in my mid 20's with above average athletic abilities. I started tennis about 3 1/2 years ago and absolutely fell in love with the sport. I've had 3 private lesson coaches over this period (as well as clinics with several other coaches). I'm on the higher end of 3.5 and can hang with some lower 4.0 players. My goal is to reach the 4.5/5.0 level and to be honest, I'm a little impatient. I don't mind putting in the time and effort to get there but I feel like I'm lacking direction. I've switched coaches several times because I would feel as though I plateau with a certain coach. Spending quite a bit of money for lessons and not seeing clear improvement is frustrating. I know that some of it has to do with skills that just takes time to develop (tracking the ball, staying loose and calm under pressure conditions, repetition with strokes, etc.).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that many coaches can take a person who has never played tennis before slowly to a 3.5 level but few coaches can take a player to 4.5+. I want to maximize my private lesson experience otherwise I feel as though I'm just wasting money.

What do you look for in a high-level coach?

What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?

Thanks for any advice. :)
Click to expand...
how often are you taking private lessons?
just curious, how much do you actually practice? ie. doing the boring/painful stuff (practicing toss/serve, ball machine, running for balls out wide, sprints, gym for leg strength, etc...)?
the juniors that are getting to 4.5/5.0+ are getting there by 12-13y old are playing daily for 2h... not just hitting around, but drilling specific shots that they miss (and are often not as fun to practice - ie. like the outwide fh/bh, approach shot, etc..)

just asking because, more often than not, a student will say they really want to get good, then i'll give them a drill they can do (let's say it's toss in the living room, or shadow swings),... then the following week, i find out they did none of it.
 
You also have to understand the difference between 'coach' and 'instructor' and 'hitting partner'. Many coaches may not be able to match the power of their students, especially if the coach is old and the students are in their youth. Such a coach will have a hitting partner drill with the student and make comments. An instructor will help beginners to intermediates to learn the basics and to become proficient in them.
 
Scribbles said:
What do you look for in a high-level coach?

What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?
Click to expand...

Beginner
  • Knowledge of stroke mechanics
  • Acute observation of player needs for fundamentals
  • Adaptive drills to match players needs
  • Simple language, i.e., specific, concise instruction, only working one or two skills per session
    • Drills that match instruction
    • Point play that exemplifies drills
  • Positive and patient, but demanding
  • Will be able to give a solid development plan of realistic goals and expectation for reaching goals
Advanced
  • Acute observation of players abilities
    • Maximize strengths and both develop/minimize weaknesses
  • Develop pattern use and recognition
  • Simple language, will usually have input on more than one or two skills in a session
    • Drills to enforce instruction and pattern play
    • Point play that exemplifies pattern play
  • Positive and patient, but demanding
  • Will be able to give a solid development plan of realistic goals and expectation for reaching goals

Things that I see in bad coaches at all levels:
  • More interested in continually talking and expression knowledge (Not interested in understanding player learning)
  • Over-explaining technique or bringing in too many other factors (especially bad at the beginner level)
  • Anyone that claims to have a method if it isn't player focused
  • Passive-aggressive coaches annoy the hell out of me
  • Do not take any responsibility for player outcomes
  • Do not let players take enough responsibility for outcomes
  • For Jrs, do not also instruct parents in the how, what, and why of what is being taught

That should be enough to get started.

Notice I did not mention the level in which a coach themselves play. In my experience, the above factors are more important for player development and learning than if a coach plays open or whatever. In many cases the above criteria has weeded out many novice coaches anyway and you end up with solid players anyway, but not always an ex-college or high level players. Most end up in that 4.5 player range, though I know a good high school coach that plays 4.0, but is one of the most amazing and inspirational coaches I know, and young players bend over backwards to work with him.

Anyway, that is just what I look for. Your mileage will vary.
 
nytennisaddict said:
how often are you taking private lessons?
just curious, how much do you actually practice? ie. doing the boring/painful stuff (practicing toss/serve, ball machine, running for balls out wide, sprints, gym for leg strength, etc...)?
the juniors that are getting to 4.5/5.0+ are getting there by 12-13y old are playing daily for 2h... not just hitting around, but drilling specific shots that they miss (and are often not as fun to practice - ie. like the outwide fh/bh, approach shot, etc..)

just asking because, more often than not, a student will say they really want to get good, then i'll give them a drill they can do (let's say it's toss in the living room, or shadow swings),... then the following week, i find out they did none of it.
Click to expand...

Leg strength and sprints aren't too much of an issue for me. I lift weights and take pretty intense HIIT classes that involve sprinting, lateral movement, all sorts of jumping etc. multiple times a week.
I try to practice serving 1-2 hours a week (divided up and spread throughout).
Drill 2 hours a week.
Singles 1x a week and Doubles 1-2x a week.
Private lesson 1x a week.
I haven't hit with a ball machine in a while (mainly due to many of the ball machines in my area have really old flat balls).

I would LOVE to have more structure with a coach (like one that gives me homework to work on this or that X number of times this week).

I guess I've just had a couple coaches that I thought could take me far. I'll improve for 2-3 months and then plateau for the next 3-4 months after that (usually when my coaching lessons turn into hitting sessions). After 3-4 coaches and all this time and effort, I've even considered if maybe I'm just not trusting the process or not fully grasping concepts. I have yet to have a coach give me actual "homework" or one that will sit down with me and help me create a plan to get to 4.5+ level.
 
Scribbles said:
Leg strength and sprints aren't too much of an issue for me. I lift weights and take pretty intense HIIT classes that involve sprinting, lateral movement, all sorts of jumping etc. multiple times a week.
I try to practice serving 1-2 hours a week (divided up and spread throughout).
Drill 2 hours a week.
Singles 1x a week and Doubles 1-2x a week.
Private lesson 1x a week.
I haven't hit with a ball machine in a while (mainly due to many of the ball machines in my area have really old flat balls).

I would LOVE to have more structure with a coach (like one that gives me homework to work on this or that X number of times this week).

I guess I've just had a couple coaches that I thought could take me far. I'll improve for 2-3 months and then plateau for the next 3-4 months after that (usually when my coaching lessons turn into hitting sessions). After 3-4 coaches and all this time and effort, I've even considered if maybe I'm just not trusting the process or not fulling grasping concepts. I have yet to have a coach give me actual "homework" or one that will sit down with me and help me create a plan to get to 4.5+ level.
Click to expand...

If I were truly impatient about getting to 4.5/5.0, I would:
*practice serve daily for 30m
*drill daily for 1-1.5h
*continue with weekly lessons, ideally daily 30m lesson, that drives what I'll be drilling that day... and do blocks of training (e.g. Fh focus for a month, etc,...)
*match play on the weekends in lieu of drilling (but still practice serves at the end of the match)

What's your mile time?

regarding ball machine and flat balls... sounds like an excuse. just set elevation higher (presuming you don't have a hitting partner which would be better anyway)

every coach should give you homework... else it's implied that the home is, work on the stuff i just corrected you on. they should also hold you accountable to actually practicing.

i'd prefer a coach that just watches me, then get a separate person to hit with me, which the coach watches.

regarding h/w... i used to give h/w all thte time (emailed it, gave drills, linked youtube vids, etc...)... but got demoralized as it being a waste, because no one ever did the homework.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited by a moderator:
nytennisaddict said:
If I were truly impatient about getting to 4.5/5.0, I would:
*drill daily for 1-1.5h

What's your mile time?

regarding ball machine and flat balls... sounds like an excuse. just set elevation higher (presuming you don't have a hitting partner which would be better anyway)

every coach should give you homework... else it's implied that the home is, work on the stuff i just corrected you on. they should also hold you accountable to actually practicing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, what are we defining as drill. I meant that I do drills with a small group of people (almost like a clinic) once 2 hours a week. I don't think I would be able to drill by myself but I might be able to get a hitting partner and just do drills with just the 2 of us.

I haven't checked my mile time in a while but I'm certain I can at least run it under 8 minutes (possibly under 7, but not 100% sure). I've always been more of a sprinter and that's definitely helped me get to a lot of balls on the court haha.

I think I'll try to find a regular hitting partner instead of using the ball machine.

But anyways, I'll take everyone's advice into consideration and look for a new coach that can set up more of a long-term plan and roadmap.
 
Scribbles said:
I think I'll try to find a regular hitting partner instead of using the ball machine.

But anyways, I'll take everyone's advice into consideration and look for a new coach that can set up more of a long-term plan and roadmap.
Click to expand...

Finding people you can hit with is essential! Some will just want to hit, others only match play, if you're really lucky you'll also find someone who wants to do drills / work on things with a basket of balls taking it in turn to feed etc and you can progress together which is very rare in my experience of rec tennis.

Also, for your coach to do anything eg a roadmap, you need to ask them and also do it during a lesson otherwise they are working for free. You could write your own (draft) plan and present it to your coach during a lesson and then discuss it.
 
Lot of great stuff in this thread. Another thing that I think is really important is to understand what kind of vision the coach has for the future of their players. Some coaches have a homogeneous vision-- they want all their players to use the same technique, same style, same everything. Other coaches are interested in helping the player create their own vision. And then there's everything in between. Of course some coaches have no vision at all, I'd avoid them because they're likely only envisioning what their wallet is going to look like when they're done with you.

I think the vision is the most important thing. Find a coach with a vision you agree with first and foremost.
 
Going from a 3.5 to a 5.0 is not a realistic vision, even for someone below 30, I am afraid. If a coach is promising that, you should take a deep look. We have had many threads on this topic, and as far as I know, not a single claim of an adult player who picked up tennis as an adult and was not a junior/college player reaching 5.0 has been verifiable. I remember a thread about a tennis magazine article of a player doing this, and it turned out the news was misleading: the guy "hit" with 5.0 players and was not one himself.
 
sureshs said:
Going from a 3.5 to a 5.0 is not a realistic vision, even for someone below 30, I am afraid. If a coach is promising that, you should take a deep look. We have had many threads on this topic, and as far as I know, not a single claim of an adult player who picked up tennis as an adult and was not a junior/college player reaching 5.0 has been verifiable. I remember a thread about a tennis magazine article of a player doing this, and it turned out the news was misleading: the guy "hit" with 5.0 players and was not one himself.
Click to expand...
If one were, say, a D1 soccer player then maybe..
4.5 does seem to be the ceiling for everyone else
 
ChaelAZ said:
Comes up all the time. He is USTA rated playing 4.5 and 5.0 I think this year.

Just need the "I can beat these guys with my off-hand" comment to complete the cycle.
Click to expand...
Okay, then there are no examples I can think of off-hand. Thanks for being a dick about it!
 
sureshs said:
Going from a 3.5 to a 5.0 is not a realistic vision, even for someone below 30, I am afraid. If a coach is promising that, you should take a deep look. We have had many threads on this topic, and as far as I know, not a single claim of an adult player who picked up tennis as an adult and was not a junior/college player reaching 5.0 has been verifiable. I remember a thread about a tennis magazine article of a player doing this, and it turned out the news was misleading: the guy "hit" with 5.0 players and was not one himself.
Click to expand...
bro, it's never too late to go after your own goals and dreams... but first, you'll have to take a break from trying to squash everyone elses.
 
Scribbles said:
Just to clarify, what are we defining as drill. I meant that I do drills with a small group of people (almost like a clinic) once 2 hours a week. I don't think I would be able to drill by myself but I might be able to get a hitting partner and just do drills with just the 2 of us.

I haven't checked my mile time in a while but I'm certain I can at least run it under 8 minutes (possibly under 7, but not 100% sure). I've always been more of a sprinter and that's definitely helped me get to a lot of balls on the court haha.

I think I'll try to find a regular hitting partner instead of using the ball machine.

But anyways, I'll take everyone's advice into consideration and look for a new coach that can set up more of a long-term plan and roadmap.
Click to expand...
you can absolutely drill by yourself:
* wall
* buy a ball machine (money can buy the tools, so you can save time)
* self feed (will do wonders especially for a 3.5... i'm a 4.5 and still do self feed drills focusing on shape of the ball and consistency of placement)
--> try this drill: self feed a ball (ie. bounce it off your racquet) about 15-20ft in the air, at the baseline, then try to hit a groundstroke (after the bounce) to the same spot 10 of 10 times, with a full topspin groundstroke. I bet you can't. at 3.5 this is the kind of ball you'll have to master to beat the pusher/moonballer standing at the gates of 4.0.
 
heninfan99 said:
I can ask the guy directly his official USTA computer rating to confirm.
Click to expand...

Confirm what? I know what a 5.0 player is, and these ain't it!

I'm always amused to see players run around and hit an inside-out forehand, then lose the point because they are so far out of position. Anyone who teaches that is a fraud!
 
Wise one said:
these are not 5.0 players. Maybe 4.5.
Click to expand...
c'mon now... if the computer says 5.0...
if santoro didn't have wins on the tour, i'm sure we'd all be saying he's a 4.5 tops :P

also there's a huge range in 5.0.

i play close to a one of the 5.0C's i know... ie. split sets, lose in 3rd set tb...
and he's definitely not in the same league as the top 5.0's in the league (who I've also played, and lost 1,1)
but he's still a 5.0C
 
I understand the jump from 4.5 to 5.0 is a huge leap and I would be pretty happy reaching the 4.5 level and playing quality tennis with dependable strokes. The idea of 5.0 tennis is just something to keep me pushing for higher once/if I reach 4.5. I am well aware that 3.5 to 4.0 to 4.5 is also a difficult journey riddled with hard work and probably a lot of frustration. The reason I made this thread was to ask for characteristics of a good coach (and how to find one) who will at least guide me in the right direction. I just felt frustrated that I have plateaued with several coaches and was paying money to be stuck (The whole "Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" kinda thing). I also struggled to figure out which coaches can take me to that level and which ones can't. I know a couple 4.5 players and will ask them later this week.

Thanks for all your help!
 
[QUOTE="Scribbles, post: 11690638, member: 187751"

What do parents look for when they want to find a good coach for their junior players?

Thanks for any advice. :)[/QUOTE]

They are working with the coach not you, find a few pro's and let them choose.
 
Sorry just to clarify, I don't have a child and I'm not looking for a coach for a junior. I'm looking for a coach for me. I was asking about junior coaches because I was hoping for people to share their experiences with choosing a high level coach for their kid. Maybe it could help me find/choose a good coach.
 
I started around 20 years old and played 4.5 for years. It can be done but I was fanatic. Read tons, took lots of group coaching, a little private coaching and played 6 or 7 days a week year round. Played lots of league tennis and some tournaments. A good coach is important but my view is you have to learn to coach yourself. You'll likely want to change coaches from time to time to get a different view.

I'll be honest, it is unlikely that you will reach a 5.0 rating. I played on a 5.0 team for a year and won about 30% of my matches but it a tough level. Heck, there are a few teaching pros, a number of ex-college players and lots of ex-high school players at 4.5 and 5.0 is tougher.
 
Wise one said:
these are not 5.0 players. Maybe 4.5.
Click to expand...

He is 5.0

Watch his indoor soccer vids and you realize just what awesome footwork and athleticism he has.

I reckon he'd grind down and crush nearly everyone on here.
 
AllCourtHeathen said:
He is 5.0

Watch his indoor soccer vids and you realize just what awesome footwork and athleticism he has.

I reckon he'd grind down and crush nearly everyone on here.
Click to expand...

Watch his latest Dubs video. Anyone here that says technique is more important than athleticism needs to reckon with that misconception. Andrew is a stellar athlete that allows him to compete at this level, and he is the first to admit he could improve technique. The guy grinds and gets to a ton of balls...and makes the play. But he also can attack the ball.


He is a great study, having started at 3.5 years back. But you can see how well he competes and it is easy to see how he advanced.
 
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