What makes Djokovic more accomplished Grass player than Murray?

What makes Djokovic more accomplished grass player than Murray?


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D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
I've seen some extreme opinions about Djokovic's success on grass in recent years. I'm not fan of either but Djokovic is tremendously underappreciated on grass in my view. Below are representative opinions about Djokovic's grass success especially compared to Murray.

Very contentious point. I am not typically in agreement with Mainad, but you won't find many that think of Djokovic as a grass court player. Murray, on the other hand, has managed to put together impressive winning streaks on the surface. For me, Djokovic's movement on grass is a liability. If anything, Djokovic was very fortunate to avoid Roger in 2011. He was also involved in real wars to claim his 2014 title. In no sense does he exude the sense of competence that Murray does when on grass. Djokovic wins because he is a warrior not because he is a good grass court player. Murray, on the other hand, wins because he has the finesse and the experience.

Djokovic has more grass achievement then Murray not because his game is more suited to grass but because he is mentally the stronger player.

Is this true Novak has more grass achievements as he's just physically and mentally stronger? No credits to his excellent shot making skills which gives high reward on grass? I know he's not top mover on grass but movement is only aspect of game which gives success on grass? since Novak has more complete and versatile game than Murray and his lack of excellent movement on grass couldn't stop him winning Wimbledon twice beating two Tier 1 greats in final. If movement is that important factor Murray would be ruling Wimbledon like Federer did.

Will Djokovic ever get enough credits for achievements on grass? or will he get plain criticised for poor movement and always called physical beast despite of having high quality shot making skills and versatility comparable to Federer?
It's plain frustrating how he often gets underappreciated and hated as lucky physical beast but he's proving all them wrong.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Djokovic isn't more accomplished on grass IMO, Murray has won more titles on the surface and has a better W/L%. And Chico's gonna hate me for saying it but I do think Murray is the more natural grass court player, his movement is certainly more fluid and his serve can be more of a weapon. Djokovic is now more accomplished at Wimbledon but overall I would have to give it to Murray.
 

Chico

Banned
1 and 2 both.
3 and 4 are irrelevant when measuring grass accomplishment.
 
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D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
djokovics consistency in my opinion, makes him an overall better player than murray, not just on grass.

Yeah overall he's better than Murray but his grass success is often underrated I believe. I've prepared poll just, let's see what people thinks about this.
 

killerboi2

Hall of Fame
The fact that he's won 2 wimbledons and Murray has only won 1. If Murray had beaten Federer in that final then he would have the edge imo.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic isn't more accomplished on grass IMO, Murray has won more titles on the surface and has a better W/L%. And Chico's gonna hate me for saying it but I do think Murray is the more natural grass court player, his movement is certainly more fluid and his serve can be more of a weapon. Djokovic is now more accomplished at Wimbledon but overall I would have to give it to Murray.

Have to disagree on you with this one. I also think djokovic is a better player than nadal but nadal is greater than djokovic. Wimbledon is the grass court tournament you want to win and djokovic has more of those. Do u see where i am coming from?
 
He is a better player on every surface, including grass. Djokovic is insanely underrated on grass. People still talk about him as some juniorish grass courter who isn't even top 10 on the surface, even after his 2nd Wimbledon. His return of serve is one of the best in history, and is a very formidable asset on grass. Not to mention his athleticsm, his performance best ever balance and agility, and his compact and efficient swings.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I would be interested in knowing what Mainad's thoughts are on this. Is 1 Wimbledon title + 3 Queens + Olympic Gold better than 2 Wimbledons but no smaller titles? I really don't know.
 
Djokovic isn't more accomplished on grass IMO, Murray has won more titles on the surface and has a better W/L%. And Chico's gonna hate me for saying it but I do think Murray is the more natural grass court player, his movement is certainly more fluid and his serve can be more of a weapon. Djokovic is now more accomplished at Wimbledon but overall I would have to give it to Murray.

There is no grass season today. There isn't even a Masters on grass. So "more tournaments" means nothing as far as overcoming an extra Wimbledon. Yeah Murray does better vs Djokovic on grass (thus far), so what. Djokovic does far better on grass vs Nadal, probably better vs Federer, better vs most others in the top 10, and is far less vurnerable to the field of early upsets than Murray is.

You could even debate who is a better grass courter between Nadal and Djokovic at this point. I would still say Nadal, but it is getting close. Obviously only an idiot would argue Murray > Nadal on grass. That alone makes the Djokovic vs Murray on grass comparision easy.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Have to disagree on you with this one. I also think djokovic is a better player than nadal but nadal is greater than djokovic. Wimbledon is the grass court tournament you want to win and djokovic has more of those. Do u see where i am coming from?

Yeah I see where you're coming from mate and I've just posted why I feel so torn on this. Murray is better on grass but Djokovic is greater. Would that be a fair thing to say?
 

Chico

Banned
I would be interested in knowing what Mainad's thoughts are on this. Is 1 Wimbledon title + 3 Queens + Olympic Gold better than 2 Wimbledons but no smaller titles? I really don't know.

LOL are you for real. :shock:
1 Wimbledon title >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite amount of other titles on grass.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
I don't think Djokovic is a better grass court player than Murray. Djokovic may have two Wimby's, but their grass records are close. Murray has more grass titles, and winning Olympics on grass is a very big thing. You could easily still give Murray the edge.

People keep ignoring the fact that Murray has had a major surgery since he won Wimbledon. He hasn't beaten a top 10 player since. That probably made a difference in results this year.
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
I don't think Djokovic is a better grass court player than Murray. Djokovic may have two Wimby's, but their grass records are close. Murray has more grass titles, and winning Olympics on grass is a very big thing. You could easily still give Murray the edge.

People keep ignoring the fact that Murray has had a major surgery since he won Wimbledon. He hasn't beaten a top 10 player since. That probably made a difference in results this year.

Murray's playing style led to that back injury. People don't give Djokovic enough credit for his super fluid playing style that avoids any serious injuries.
 
That Djokovic might now be considered a better grass courter than Nadal, already means there is no chance Murray could be considered better than Djokovic on grass. After all you couldn't even begin to argue Murray is superior to Nadal on grass (despite how awful he is now) when he has a much inferior Wimbledon record AND is owned so badly in numerous meetings at Wimbledon (especialy to those trying to buff up the importance of the Djokovic vs Murray grass H2H) 9 sets to 1. Yet Djokovic is being argued against Nadal on grass at this point. Murray could never be. Thus makes it pretty much impossible to even argue Murray vs Djokovic on grass either at this point.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
2 Wimbys > 1. That makes Djokovic a superior grass player. Also made another final.

1 Wimby + Olympic Singles Gold on Grass= 2 Wimbys.

Murray has been hampered by major surgery, which is very recent. If he's not able to make another final after this year, I'll give Djokovic's extra final more weight. But you need to allow for Murray's recent back surgery.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
That Djokovic might now be considered a better grass courter than Nadal, already means there is no chance Murray could be considered better than Djokovic on grass. After all you couldn't even begin to argue Murray is superior to Nadal on grass (despite how awful he is now) when he has a much inferior Wimbledon record AND is owned so badly in numerous meetings at Wimbledon (especialy to those trying to buff up the importance of the Djokovic vs Murray grass H2H) 9 sets to 1. Yet Djokovic is being argued against Nadal on grass at this point. Murray could never be. Thus makes it pretty much impossible to even argue Murray vs Djokovic on grass either at this point.

The Nadal vs Djokovic argument on grass is bogus though. The only people who make it are hardcore Djoko stans like Chico.

Djokovic vs Murray on grass is very close.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
How so? I think there's a pretty good case now for people putting Djokovic above Nadal on grass.

Even if djokovic stays on 2 wimby titles. By the end of their careers djokovic will be considered greater than nadal on grass due to his level of consistency throughout his whole career at wimbledon
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
How so? I think there's a pretty good case now for people putting Djokovic above Nadal on grass.

I don't think there is a case at all.

Nadal is passed his grass prime, but at his grass prime, he was making the finals of Wimbledon every year (with two more finals than Nole), and beating arguably the greatest grass court player ever (Federer) at the peak of his powers. Nole struggled past a 33 year old Fedrerer in 5 sets. Peak/Prime Federer would have destroyed Nole.

We are currently in a free-for-all grass era. There is no single oustanding grass courter like when Federer or Sampras were in their prime, which means Wimbledon can be won by a lot of top players

Nole beat a Nadal who he mentally owned that season, and an old and faded Federer. You can't take away his Nadal win, but I think peak Nadal on grass, without the mental blocks of 2011, beats Djoker in 4 sets.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
Even if djokovic stays on 2 wimby titles. By the end of their careers djokovic will be considered greater than nadal on grass due to his level of consistency throughout his whole career at wimbledon

That's rubbish. Venus Williams has been losing in the first week of Wimbledon for quite a few years now, yet nobody feels that devalues her grass record as one of the greatest female grass court players.

People look at how good you were in Wimbledon during your grass prime, not after.

Grass Prime Nadal> Grass Prime Djokovic.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I don't think there is a case at all.

Nadal is passed his grass prime, but at his grass prime, he was making the finals of Wimbledon every year (with two more finals than Nole), and beating arguably the greatest grass court player ever (Federer) at the peak of his powers. Nole struggled past a 33 year old Fedrerer in 5 sets. Peak/Prime Federer would have destroyed Nole.

We are currently in a free-for-all grass era. There is no single oustanding grass courter like when Federer or Sampras were in their prime, which means Wimbledon can be won by a lot of top players

Nole beat a Nadal who he mentally owned that season, and an old and faded Federer. You can't take away his Nadal win, but I think peak Nadal on grass, without the mental blocks of 2011, beats Djoker in 4 sets.

Shame on Nole for beating Nadal so many times before Wimbledon that year and thus putting doubts into his mind before the final. He should know by now that that isn't how sport is played between gentleman. Silly, silly Novak!
 

Fiji

Legend
Shame on Nole for beating Nadal so many times before Wimbledon that year and thus putting doubts into his mind before the final. He should know by now that that isn't how sport is played between gentleman. Silly, silly Novak!

Same reason why nadal beat nole at the uso last year... all those nadal wins before the uso last year. **** happens...

Nole should never lose to nadal at the uso but all those nadal wins over nole last year were the reason nadal beat him at he uso.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
That's rubbish. Venus Williams has been losing in the first week of Wimbledon for quite a few years now, yet nobody feels that devalues her grass record as one of the greatest female grass court players.

People look at how good you were in Wimbledon during your grass prime, not after.

Grass Prime Nadal> Grass Prime Djokovic.

Djokovic resume on grass> Nadal resume on grass.
 
Of course Djokovic, how that could be a question? All Murray's big titles that he won(USO,Wimbledon,Olympics), he was facing more exhausted opponents in the finals. And on top of that Murray never defeated Federer or Nadal at Wimbledon.
 

Flint

Hall of Fame
It's a close call.

Djokovic has 2 Wimbledon championships to Murrays 1 Wimbledon championship and 1 gold medal. Obviously Wimbledon is worth more than the Olympic gold but for me Olypmic gold is the best non grand slam title (yes even better than masters and WTF imho).

So Djokovic shades him on that one.

But Murray has won 5 out of 5 sets against Djokovic on grass

so, tough to call......
 

Flint

Hall of Fame
Of course Djokovic, how that could be a question? All Murray's big titles that he won(USO,Wimbledon,Olympics), he was facing more exhausted opponents in the finals. And on top of that Murray never defeated Federer or Nadal at Wimbledon.
Technically he has beaten Federer at Wimbledon :twisted:
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
Technically he has beaten Federer at Wimbledon :twisted:

Yep. At The Olympics. In a Best Of 5 final. A month after Federer had just won Wimbledon.

Murray actually beat a better version of Federer at the Olympics, than Djokovic did at Wimbledon.
 
Yep. At The Olympics. In a Best Of 5 final. A month after Federer had just won Wimbledon.

Murray actually beat a better version of Federer at the Olympics, than Djokovic did at Wimbledon.

Not at all. Murray should send DelPotro some gifts because Big Juan basically won for Andy both Olympics and Wimbledon by exhausting Federer and Djokovic in semifinals of these tournaments.
 
I would be interested in knowing what Mainad's thoughts are on this. Is 1 Wimbledon title + 3 Queens + Olympic Gold better than 2 Wimbledons but no smaller titles? I really don't know.

Queens is a 250 event. Most of the players are using it strictly for tune-up; I don't think it really counts for anything in any achievement debate.
 

Mayonnaise

Banned
Of course Djokovic, how that could be a question? All Murray's big titles that he won(USO,Wimbledon,Olympics), he was facing more exhausted opponents in the finals. And on top of that Murray never defeated Federer or Nadal at Wimbledon.

Who cares who Djokovic beat? It's about how many titles he has, and he has Murray beat there. If you wanna talk about opponents, Djokovic has never taken a set off Murray on grass.
 
Absolutely nothing.

try harder:)
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D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
5(5/6) titles vs 2(2/5) titles. Who is the more accomplished grass player?

Hewitt has 8 grass titles with 1 Wimbledon and 7 ATP 250 at 4 different venues. So he's clearly better and versatile grass courter than both Djokovic and Murray as your logic says.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
Who cares who Djokovic beat? It's about how many titles he has, and he has Murray beat there. If you wanna talk about opponents, Djokovic has never taken a set off Murray on grass.

Nadal leads AO H2H with Federer 3-0 with 1absolute beat down. So Nadal > Federer at AO?
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
1 Wimby + Olympic Singles Gold on Grass= 2 Wimbys.

Murray has been hampered by major surgery, which is very recent. If he's not able to make another final after this year, I'll give Djokovic's extra final more weight. But you need to allow for Murray's recent back surgery.

I've other equation:1Wimby+ 4 Queens+ 1 Halle+1 Den Bosch+ 1 Newport= 2.5 Wimby. Hewitt > Djokovic, Great mathematician you are! :lol:

Injury is big excuse since Murray is capable of replicating his results at RG (SF), he must physically at great shape since clay needs physical grinding and Murray did it successfully.
He lost to one of the best talents in young generation and there is no shame and excuse since Dimitrov leads him 2-0 this year.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
2 meetings on grass. Both times Murray won in straight sets. Pointless thread.

I came to know you hates Djokovic too much but at least don't post complementary to your signature since it automatically shifts you in territory of clueless Fanboy trolls like mainad. :wink:
 
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