What makes you think that Murray is better than Djoko on grass?

[Mainad]

Pffff murrays other titles on Grass does not make up for djokovics 1 extra W title and one extra final.

H2h? What are you, following the footsteps of Nadal fans? H2h is irrelevant

Would you say it was irrelevent if the H2H was in favour of Djokovic?

Djokovic has done better against the Field and different matchups, wich murray has failed to do.

Murray has beaten Federer and Djokovic in big grasscourt finals. Djokovic has beaten Federer and Nadal. So what's your point?

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

but Djokovic last year it was pretty impressive
Stepanek - Simon - Tsonga - Cilic - Dimitrov - Federer
all these guys on grass, except maybe Simon they all play excellent on grass, one of the toughest draw i have seen in a slam

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Pffff murrays other titles on Grass does not make up for djokovics 1 extra W title and one extra final.

H2h? What are you, following the footsteps of Nadal fans? H2h is irrelevant as Djokovic has done better against the Field and different matchups, wich murray has failed to do.

Surface H2H isn't the same thing as overall H2H.

For instance, I wouldn't bet on Murray if he played Djokovic at the Australian Open as his grass prowess has no credence there.

And it also paints a realistic picture in my opinion.

One extra final? Is that the same final he lost to Murray?

Why don't we bring Murray's Wimbledon record into the equation? You cannot get more consistent than Murray at Wimbledon these days.

2008 - QF.
2009 - SF.
2010 - SF.
2011 - SF.
2012 - F.
2013 - W.
2014 - QF.

And this is Djokovic's record in comparison.

2008 - R2.
2009 - QF.
2010 - SF.
2011 - W.
2012 - SF.
2013 - F.
2014 - W.

Besides the two wins, Murray's record there is a bit more impressive.

 

[RF-18]

Why not ask the general public who's achievements on grass they Would rather have between Djokovic and Murray?

:lol:

 

[Anti-Fedal]

Oh dear, bit of a Novak fanboy, are we?

First off, Murray owes nothing to Delpo or anybody else for his Wimbledon win. If Djokovic couldn't put away Delpo in straight sets, that was his problem. Nothing to do with Murray.

Secondly, Murray had already beaten Djokovic on grass the year before at Wimbledon at the 2012 Olympics, again in straights, so his H2H v Djokovic on grass is 2-0 to Murray. Djokovic has yet to take a set off Murray on grass.

Lastly, although Djokovic is more accomplished at Wimbledon with 2 titles out of 3 finals, Murray has 5 titles on grass including a Wimbledon title, another final and an Olympic gold medal (beating Djokovic en route to winning it as I just said).

All in all, I think that kind of makes them equal on the surface as things stand so you need to wise up and start having a bit more respect for Murray and his game, especially his game on grass!

Selective analysis. No mention of Murray's record against Fed and Nadal (two best grass courters of this generation) at Wimbledon compared to that of Djokovic's. Surely that has to be considered in all this.

 

[mistik]

More titles on grass thing in my book hold zero water. All the tournaments before Wimbledon are mickey mouse tournaments.You can even choose not to play them if you feel it doesnt hurt your chances on Wimbledon.

 

[Mainad]

Why not ask the general public who's achievements on grass they Would rather have between Djokovic and Murray?

:lol:

Why not ask the players? Ekaterina Makarova recently stated that she would prefer to win an Olympic gold medal than win a Slam! :wink:

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Why not ask the general public who's achievements on grass they Would rather have between Djokovic and Murray?

:lol:

I said besides the two wins.

If you took away one Wimbledon from Novak and looked at those results, you have to admit Murray's record is more impressive.

 

[RF-18]

Surface H2H isn't the same thing as overall H2H.

For instance, I wouldn't bet on Murray if he played Djokovic at the Australian Open as his grass prowess has no credence there.

And it also paints a realistic picture in my opinion.

One extra final? Is that the same final he lost to Murray?

Why don't we bring Murray's Wimbledon record into the equation? You cannot get more consistent than Murray at Wimbledon these days.

2008 - QF.
2009 - SF.
2010 - SF.
2011 - SF.
2012 - F.
2013 - W.
2014 - QF.

And this is Djokovic's record in comparison.

2008 - R2.
2009 - QF.
2010 - SF.
2011 - W.
2012 - SF.
2013 - F.
2014 - W.

Besides the two wins, Murray's record there is a bit more impressive.

What do you mean besides the two wins? Ask anyone wich of Those two tables they Find more impressive or rather have and lets see the answer.

H2h no relevance. Nadal leads Fed 3-0 at the AO.

Nadal is greater AO player :lol:

 

[Mainad]

Selective analysis. No mention of Murray's record against Fed and Nadal (two best grass courters of this generation) at Wimbledon compared to that of Djokovic's. Surely that has to be considered in all this.

Murray beat Federer in straights in a best of 5 set final at Wimbledon just a month after losing to him in the Wimbledon final. That needs to be taken into account when assessing his performance against the best players on grass. By the same token, Djokovic has yet to even take a set off Murray on grass in 2 attempts so I feel that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

 

[RF-18]

Why not ask the players? Ekaterina Makarova recently stated that she would prefer to win an Olympic gold medal than win a Slam! :wink:

Yea no problem. but that is one opinion. I haven't heard such thing ever. Players n1 dream is to become #1 player and a Slam winner.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

What do you mean besides the two wins? Ask anyone wich of Those two tables they Find more impressive or rather have and lets see the answer.

H2h no relevance. Nadal leads Fed 3-0 at the AO.

Nadal is greater AO player :lol:

Because obviously Novak will seem more impressive with his two Wimbledon titles..

I was talking about consistency at the event and how many realistic shots these guys have had at titles and it's pretty similar.

If Murray wins a second Wimbledon though, Novak won't be better than Murray at Wimbledon.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

More titles on grass thing in my book hold zero water. All the tournaments before Wimbledon are mickey mouse tournaments.You can even choose not to play them if you feel it doesnt hurt your chances on Wimbledon.

I won't say Murray is > Djokovic on grass overall when it comes to both achievement but saying Queens is a mickey mouse tournament is wrong, Tsonga, Cilic, Roddick, Malisse, Fish etc...

 

[Anti-Fedal]

Murray beat Federer in straights in a best of 5 set final at Wimbledon just a month after losing to him in the Wimbledon final. That needs to be taken into account when assessing his performance against the best players on grass. By the same token, Djokovic has yet to even take a set off Murray on grass in 2 attempts so I feel that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

I never said that doesn't need to be taken into consideration. I said your analysis is selective because you overlooked Djokovic's Hth against Fed and Nadal at Wimbledon (the grand slam tournament, not the Olympics), considering those guys have 9 Wimbledons between them, beating them there to win the title is a pretty significant achievement, Djokovic has done this twice from four attempts, Murray has never done this from four attempts.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

Why not ask the players? Ekaterina Makarova recently stated that she would prefer to win an Olympic gold medal than win a Slam! :wink:

For women it is different though
Women slam are not more difficult to win than a master 1000, it is actually arguably easier because they have more rest but play the same format of best of 3 that they do the rest of the year

Slams are like holidays for women :twisted:

 

[RF-18]

Because obviously Novak will seem more impressive with his two Wimbledon titles..

I was talking about consistency at the event and how many realistic shots these guys have had at titles and it's pretty similar.

If Murray wins a second Wimbledon though, Novak won't be better than Murray at Wimbledon.

If murray gets another Wimbledon, then I will agree that murray has better achievements on Grass. The OG Would be the tie breaker. Aswell as other titles he has on Grass.

But for now it is pretty clear that 1 extra W title + final is too much to make up for murray.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

If murray gets another Wimbledon, then I will agree that murray has better achievements on Grass. The OG Would be the tie breaker. Aswell as other titles he has on Grass.

But for now it is pretty clear that 1 extra W title + final is too much to make up for murray.

I can agree with that.

 

[mistik]

I won't say Murray is > Djokovic on grass overall when it comes to both achievement but saying Queens is a mickey mouse tournament is wrong, Tsonga, Cilic, Roddick, Malisse, Fish etc...

Believe me ı am a fan of Queens tournament ı love nearly everything about that tournament but still it was just Atp 250 until this year which a player can easily skip if feels being fresh is more important than match play when it comes to Wimbledon.

 

[Mainad]

Believe me ı am a fan of Queens tournament ı love nearly everything about that tournament but still it was just Atp 250 until this year which a player can easily skip if feels being fresh is more important than match play when it comes to Wimbledon.

Nevertheless, in the absence of any grasscourt Masters tournaments, Queens and Halle are the senior warm-up events for Wimbledon and their past 250 status (now upgraded to 500) has not deterred the top players from regularly playing them year after year (just look at the list of past champions). So they cannot be considered just like any other 250 tournament!

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

Believe me ı am a fan of Queens tournament ı love nearly everything about that tournament but still it was just Atp 250 until this year which a player can easily skip if feels being fresh is more important than match play when it comes to Wimbledon.

For me an example of Mickey mouse tournament is Buenos aires won by Nadal this year (Arguello, Delbonis, Berlocq, Monaco (Berlocq being the only great player here) or Istanbul won by Federer (Nieminen, Gimeno-Traver, Schwartzmann, Cuevas).

 

[mistik]

I am not a guy who jump on to make statements after the results. I just knew it Murray isnt a better player than Djokovic. It was huge myth on this forum and some part of the tennis media.

 

[West Coast Ace]

I think the biggest difference is that Murray is a better mover on grass and feels more comfortable on the surface than Djokovic does.

Yeah. Even though Murray left for ESP and the red dirt, he obviously got in a lot of time on grass.

Becker's inputs are closing the gap.

 

[mattosgrant]

If Djokovic wins the final Sunday the argument will be laughable. 3 time Wimbledon winner > 1 time Wimbledon winner on grass no matter what.

Even if he doesnt it is pretty hard to make the argument. Murray might seem more natural on grass, but Djokovic clearly has the better career and results on it, even losing Sunday. Djokovic's return of serve, balance, athleticsm, timing and compact strokes, are all major assets on grass. He is very underrated on grass.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I think the biggest difference is that Murray is a better mover on grass and feels more comfortable on the surface than Djokovic does.

LOL @ Murray has Del Potro to thank for winning the 2013 Wimbledon. More lame excuses from Djokofiends.

Mistic isn't a Djokovic fan.

 

[D.Nalby12]

Even if Djokovic loses tomorrow, 2 Wins + 2 Finals >> 1 Win +1 Final. Additionally Djokovic has beaten two best players of the era in both Wimbledon Finals while Murray has plain 0-5 losing record against Fedal there.

Rest is popcorn discussion.