What more does Rafa have to do?

If Roger does not win another one the very next slam Rafa wins will put him on uncharted legendary territory.

AO -> Double Career Slam / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record.
FO -> Stand-alone Grand Slam record
WB -> Only man with at least 3 Slams on all 3 Surfaces in Open Era history / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record
USO -> Tie US Open all time record / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record.


So essentially just win one more slam, it doesn't even matter where.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Winning a WTF and regaining number one for a stretch would be nice too.
Click to expand...

Weeks are downstream from titles at this point.

Djokovic could make the final of every event for the next two years, winning none of them but racking up over 400 weeks at #1, and yet if Nadal were to win 2 Majors per year during that same time period nobody would think Djokovic enhanced his resume vs Nadal one iota.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Weeks are downstream from titles at this point.

Djokovic could make the final of every event for the next two years, winning none of them but racking up over 400 weeks at #1, and yet if Nadal were to win 2 Majors per year during that same time period nobody would think Djokovic enhanced his resume vs Nadal one iota.
Click to expand...

It has always been that way.

It's the same reason the tennis world has always viewed Borg ahead of Lendl & Connors despite him having almost 3x less weeks at #1 than them
 
Leandro2045 said:
It has always been that way.

It's the same reason the tennis world has always viewed Borg ahead of Lendl & Connors despite him having almost 3x less weeks at #1 than them
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I DO think any ATG or GOAT has to have weeks at #1, and for the latter it has to be significant, but at a certain point more weeks is a silly stat, and is more reflective of timing, circumstance, scheduling, and desire.
 
Nadal said in an interview earlier this year that he'd like to retire with 25 slams.
None of the other stats are relevant when you compare it to 25 slams.
Although I'm very impressed with his 10-6 slam H2H lead over Djokovic, and his 10-4 slam H2H lead over Federer.
But the total number of slams a player wins is all that will be remembered by the general public or the sports public.
20 slams or 25 slams is all that matters.
 
sureshs said:
20 Slams
Olympics singles gold
Fed H2H 24-16

He needs to:

Win one more AO thus winning each Slam at least twice which Fed and Djokovic has not been able to do
Make the H2H against Djokovic better which is currently 27-29
Click to expand...

He is 10-6 in slams against Djokovic that’s already amazing.

He also has 209 weeks at no.1, 5 year end no.1 and 35 Masters 1000 titles.

I don’t think he has anything to prove, both Fedal are the GOATs.

Everything else will be a bonus!
 
I hope Nadal never wins the World Tour Finals.
Because if he wins the World Tour Finals, he will give it credibility when it clearly doesn't deserve credibility.
Zverev and Tsitsipas won it, and that's all you need to know....
 
BackhandDTL said:
No one cares about WTF. Weeks at #1 is primarily a matter of circumstance, fortunate timing.

It’s all about the slams. One more slam. Preferably off of clay and he’s the GOAT. Win the AO and it’s not even a debate really.
Click to expand...

WTF is considered the 5th biggest tournament of they year and weeks #1 defines the player being an all around best player on the tour.

Slam is the the most important criteria but there are many more important criteria in evaluation the player's ATG.
 
Beat Sunny Deol in a straight fight. Good luck with that!

still91.jpg
 
Leandro2045 said:
If Roger does not win another one the very next slam Rafa wins will put him on uncharted legendary territory.

AO -> Double Career Slam / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record.
FO -> Stand-alone Grand Slam record
WB -> Only man with at least 3 Slams on all 3 Surfaces in Open Era history / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record
Click to expand...
 
Reach the 2024 RG final at 38 against Tsitsipas, enter the fifth set at 6-5 and get to 40-0 on his serve with 3 MP, then commit 2 double faults followed by 3 shancked forehands to lose it all 6-8.

Words wouldn't humanely describe the ensuing adulation.
 
Leandro2045 said:
If Roger does not win another one the very next slam Rafa wins will put him on uncharted legendary territory.

AO -> Double Career Slam / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record.
FO -> Stand-alone Grand Slam record
WB -> Only man with at least 3 Slams on all 3 Surfaces in Open Era history / Stand-alone Grand Slam Record
Click to expand...
Almost was going to post he has the record with 2 slams because I keep forgetting Wilander won 2 AO's on grass , so he and Rafa shared the 2 slams on all 3 surfaces in Open Era History...
 
TMF said:
WTF is considered the 5th biggest tournament of they year and weeks #1 defines the player being an all around best player on the tour.

Slam is the the most important criteria but there are many more important criteria in evaluation the player's ATG.
Click to expand...


So Lendl > Borg? Lendl had way more more weeks at #1 than Borg. The priority is peaking in the slams, that defines greatness.

The context for weeks #1 needs to be understood here. Fed accumulated all those weeks in an era with Roddick, old Agassi, Philippousis, Hewitt, while Djokovic accumulated most of those weeks in 2015-16, during his prime, when Nadal was nowhere to be seen and Federer was 35. Weeks #1 should only be resorted to if slams are tied and if masters are tied. There is too much arbitrary timing involved for this measurement.

Why doesn’t Federer get penalized for his poor clay Masters record? 1/3? Because there are other masters for him to save face. Similarly, If the WTF were held on any other surface, or if they managed to change it up even a few times (not even clay, fast HC would do) surely Nadal would grab a couple titles there.

The point is that weeks and WTF are too arbitrary to be involved in GOAT arguments unless slams and masters are tied.
 
Personally I would love one more USO to get him to 5, that would tie him with Sampras, Connors and Federer for most in the Open Era.
 
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Leandro2045 said:
It has always been that way.

It's the same reason the tennis world has always viewed Borg ahead of Lendl & Connors despite him having almost 3x less weeks at #1 than them
Click to expand...
Murray,Hewitt,Roddick and Courier have more weeks at no 1 than Becker, tells you all you need to know.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Sounds like an opinion. Three of the 4 greatest over the past few decades have a combined 16 WTF... then you have Rafa with zero...
Click to expand...

I mean those two are HC legends. Djokovic the HC goat, Fed a distant second.

But yeah, penalize Nadal for not winning a tournament on a slow indoor HC. I’m not penalizing Fed for his poor outdoor clay court in 30 degree Celsius record. We know that’s not his surface.
 
BackhandDTL said:
I mean those two are HC legends. Djokovic the HC goat, Fed a distant second.

But yeah, penalize Nadal for not winning a tournament on a slow indoor HC. I’m not penalizing Fed for his poor clay court resume. We know that’s not his surface.
Click to expand...
Fed does have titles on clay, several big ones actually. But Rafa.... not so much. Distant second? It is 12-11 and Fed has more WTF's... so that claim is just another hate claim.
 
BackhandDTL said:
So Lendl > Borg? Lendl had way more more weeks at #1 than Borg. The priority is peaking in the slams, that defines greatness.

The context for weeks #1 needs to be understood here. Fed accumulated all those weeks in an era with Roddick, old Agassi, Philippousis, Hewitt, while Djokovic accumulated most of those weeks in 2015-16, during his prime, when Nadal was nowhere to be seen and Federer was 35. Weeks #1 should only be resorted to if slams are tied and if masters are tied. There is too much arbitrary timing involved for this measurement.

Why doesn’t Federer get penalized for his poor clay Masters record? 1/3? Because there are other masters for him to save face. Similarly, If the WTF were held on any other surface, or if they managed to change it up even a few times (not even clay, fast HC would do) surely Nadal would grab a couple titles there.

The point is that weeks and WTF are too arbitrary to be involved in GOAT arguments unless slams and masters are tied.
Click to expand...
Weeks at no 1 is a little flawed as the points awarded do not correctly reflect the importance of achievements. Absolutely nobody thinks that two masters equal a slam or that two runner ups are worth more than one win. Hell, you could win four 500er and get the same number of points than winning a slam. Let’s assume player a reaches all four slam finals of a season losing them all, while player b wins two slams and looses in the first round at the other two. Would any sane person put player a over player b?? The ranking points and through them weeks at no 1 are there to get the seeds for the slams and do not reflect the actual importance of the tournaments. If they did, the points awarded to slams would be astronomical and mess up the whole system.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Fed does have titles on clay, several big ones actually. But Rafa.... not so much. Distant second? It is 12-11 and Fed has more WTF's... so that claim is just another hate claim.
Click to expand...

Well prime v prime he could rarely beat Nadal on HC. WTFs are just one sub-surface. That’s a gaping hole on Feds resume.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
Weeks at no 1 is a little flawed as the points awarded do not correctly reflect the importance of achievements. Absolutely nobody thinks that two masters equal a slam or that two runner ups are worth more than one win. Hell, you could win four 500er and get the same number of points than winning a slam. Let’s assume player a reaches all four slam finals of a season losing them all, while player b wins two slams and looses in the first round at the other two. Would any sane person put player a over player b?? The ranking points and through them weeks at no 1 are there to get the seeds for the slams and do not reflect the actual importance of the tournaments. If they did, the points awarded to slams would be astronomical and mess up the whole system.
Click to expand...

Well yes. the top players play tennis for the slams. 2 slams > 0 slams, it’s not hard.

Looks like Guillermo Coria has entered the thread.
 
BackhandDTL said:
Well prime v prime he could rarely beat Nadal on HC. WTFs are just on one surface. That’s a gaping hole on Feds resume.
Click to expand...
Huh? Fed has a better HC record than Rafa. Oh, and he has smoke Rafa what is it... 6, 7 straight times off clay as he almost hits 40...

That sir is a hole.
 
Last edited:
sureshs said:
20 Slams
Olympics singles gold
Fed H2H 24-16

He needs to:

Win one more AO thus winning each Slam at least twice which Fed and Djokovic has not been able to do
Make the H2H against Djokovic better which is currently 27-29
Click to expand...
If he does this, I’ll accept him:
Learn to speak proper English.
Use his right hand exclusively to toss the ball during his service rituals.
 
Most people on this earth are narrow-minded. Once they latch onto a belief, it's very difficult for them to process anything that is contrary to their beliefs as their beliefs form a core part of their human identity. Unfortunately, open-minded people are in the minority and society views people who change their minds as being weak when in fact it can be a sign of growth. It's very difficult for hardcore Fed and Djoker fans to accept that Rafa now stands alongside Fed in the pantheon of tennis greats. You could debate or argue until the cows come home about metrics etc - however, the easiest and most accepted metric is number of slams 20 to 20. I most certainly could be wrong. If somebody could point me to evidence based articles that state that Fed>Nadal and the reasons why then i'm happy to read! Maybe Fed > Nadal...it's hard to tell on these forums! However, right now the easiest metric to rate somebody is number of slams. Tennis players usually put in their greatest efforts at the slams. If we didn't have this metric as a standard of greatness, you could argue that anybody is the GOAT.
 
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