extreme_western
Rookie
Very interesting thread here, the Fischer sounds very similar to the Babolat Pure Control Tour, would that be fair to say Trip?
What new racket can I buy today that has the most similar feel to the classic old feel?
- Thread starter M A
- Start date
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
Ouch, I wouldn't compare any Fischer with any Babs... They may be equal in terms of specs, but feel... I've hit with the Pure Control on some occasions and it's very different from any Fischer. Two schools of thought I guess...
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extreme_western
Rookie
Interesting, I’ve never hit with the Fischer but was just thinking in terms of specs and profile of racket….Ouch, I wouldn't compare any Fischer with any Babs... They may be equal in terms of specs, but feel... I've hit with the Pure Control on some occasions and it's very different from any Fischer. Two schools of thought I guess...
Sounds familiar, sure, but exactly like it, probably not. And to be clear, I've never hit with a Fischer Vacuum, so I would absolutely defer to those like @NicoMK who have for a more definitive opinion on feel. And certainly, most typical Babs will never feel anywhere near as solid, smooth and connected as I'd imagine a Fischer Vacuum to feel, but if one Bab did get closest, I would think it would have to be the Strike 97 – even if it's still not that close in reality. In overall playability, though, I think it could still come close to what @M A is looking for (thus why I kept it on the list).
Trip, do you think the Babolat Pure Strike 100 16/20 can have the most similar feeling because it is the less stiff (61, the 97 is 63) in the entire Strike line? Thank you my friend!
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Yonex HD, string with natural gut, assuming you can find some still in stock on clearance.
Honestly, the rated softness of the 97, if it's anywhere close to the predecessor Strike VS (which I owned and played), is maybe about equal, if only 1RA point higher in overall perceived stiffness, than the 100 16x20, which I own now (had 2 copies of it: an over-spec 304sw unstrung playtest demo, and my current 292sw unstrung retail stick, which I think plays much better overall). I will say, if you do want to buy-and-try the 100 16x20, and want to ensure a strung swing weight of 323 or less and intend on at least playing a hybrid if not full-bed poly, you absolutely must use a matching service up front, for the lowest SW sample you can find, no higher than 295sw unstrung, ideally down towards 290sw. And if that can't be found, in your case, I'd pass (that 100" 16x20 adds a good amount of face weight - like well over 30 SW points with most 1.20-1.25 poly full bed).
Good idea, but not quite a fit here because 1) a bit too dense a pattern, and 2) @M A wants to keep stock static weight at 310g or lower, and 3) even though it's some of the least incriminating VDM to ever be used, the feel is still just a tad bit more muted overall than the Strike VS / 97.
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In November I'm going to Orlando and I'm going to pay 20 dollars to tenniswarehouse for the matching service! I'm going to take the opportunity to buy a multifeel black 1.30 reel and I was wanting to ask you if restring sync 1.25 is a good idea for Crosses?
Much too high a stock swing weight for the what the OP wants, even with lighter/thinner strings. Re-read the thread.
Sounds like a plan. Sync sounds like a good string, but I haven't tried it. Perhaps order a couple sets and see; one set full-bed, another for 2 hybrid jobs, to use as a cross, perhaps the other as a main. From among larger-brand options that should be available in Brazil, would Head Lynx Touch be available to you? That's a softer poly that still has a pretty crisp feel. Might make a nice pairing in the crosses with MF Black mains.
You can't get "classic old feel" with 320g.
Nonsense. The OP himself has it with his own Fischer, who's stock static weight is 320g unstrung and average stock swing weight is 311 (as was measured by TW).
Feel is less so a function of swing weight alone, and more so a function of the layup and overall material construction. Yes, more material in the hoop helps, but you can certainly find classic feel down to around 320 kg/cm².
LOL... you really want to be right uh...
I just want to help the OP. Perhaps one of us is misunderstanding what the other is trying to say. What exact measurement are you referring to, which makes a classic feel impossible: static weight, or swing weight, and unstrung or strung?
You're not confused. If I write "320g" for sure it's not swingweight. Come on now...
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Volkl C10 pro is pick up and play at those specs. You can get older models of it on the Bay for cheap. I have 2 fishscale graphic ones for less than $100 total. The feel is far better than any modern frame.
Wilson Ultra Pro is a great option but requires a good amount of modding to get close to the C10 Pro/Fischer 330/295 weight.
I have played about every modern frame out there, and nothing really is great in feel anymore outside of the Head reissues. I don't find the new Prestige to be that great, but I love the Classic and the Pro Tour 2.0.
The Gravity is good but not on the level of classic frames. I think those days are over for a while. Everything is super muted and soul less now. I went back to playing with older Babolats just so I can feel the ball. I injured my arm and can't use heavy racquets for a while, but I have my Volkls and a Babolat Pure Control Swirly ready to go for when I can.
The new goal of racquets is light and stable with as much power as possible. So old school ball feel gets sacrificed as a result.
Wilson Ultra Pro is a great option but requires a good amount of modding to get close to the C10 Pro/Fischer 330/295 weight.
I have played about every modern frame out there, and nothing really is great in feel anymore outside of the Head reissues. I don't find the new Prestige to be that great, but I love the Classic and the Pro Tour 2.0.
The Gravity is good but not on the level of classic frames. I think those days are over for a while. Everything is super muted and soul less now. I went back to playing with older Babolats just so I can feel the ball. I injured my arm and can't use heavy racquets for a while, but I have my Volkls and a Babolat Pure Control Swirly ready to go for when I can.
The new goal of racquets is light and stable with as much power as possible. So old school ball feel gets sacrificed as a result.
PistolPete23
Hall of Fame
C10 Pro feels amazing. I have a yellow and black circa 2005/2006. It surprised me with how powerful it is. I personally prefer the PC 2.0, but the Volkl is a keeper.
A lot of users write grams when they mean swing weight units, and I haven't conversed with you much, so I wasn't sure. It was an honest question.
As for 320g (or lighter) static weight not being able to deliver classic feel, I'm not so sure about that. I can think of some all-time-great feeling stuff right in that realm, including frames like the RDX 500 MP, etc. Today's stuff is shorter on options, for sure, I'll give you that. Though there are frames like the Phantom 100X 18x20 that at least get very close.
ngoster
Semi-Pro
Look for anything that has a thin box beam. Head size to taste.
Dunlop CX 200 Tour (either string pattern will work but the 16*19 is more forgiving)
Prince Phantom 39p (18*20)
Head Gravity Pro - although it's a 100, combined with the 18*20 pattern, it feel pretty pretty pretty good.
Dunlop CX 200 Tour (either string pattern will work but the 16*19 is more forgiving)
Prince Phantom 39p (18*20)
Head Gravity Pro - although it's a 100, combined with the 18*20 pattern, it feel pretty pretty pretty good.
Yes, it’s available here. Thanks again for other option my friend!
I'm going to try to find 2 100 16/20 rackets with the unstrung sw of 290 in the customization service on the tenniswarehouse website! You told me that these rackets add more than 30 sw when they are strung! Can you tell me how much you think it will add if I put multifeel 1.30 on mains and restring sync 1.25 on crosses?
Good luck with the search. Will be interested to see the lowest SW they can find.
As for string bed swing weight in the Strike 100 16x20, for MF Black 1.30 / Sync 1.25, I would expect 27-29sw points.
Hhere are the recorded string swing weights from my logs:
Full-Bed Poly:
- Babolat RPM Rough Orange 1.25 – 33sw points
- Gamma AMP Ocho Silver 1.30 / Head Hawk Black 1.30 – 33sw points
Non-Poly mains / Poly crosses:
- Gosen AK Pro CX Black Spiral 1.30 / Babolat RPM Rough Orange 1.25 – 28sw points
- Gosen AK Pro CX Black Spiral 1.30 / Gosen G-Tour 3 Black 1.18 – 25sw points
Poly mains / Non-poly crosses:
- Gamma AMP Ocho Silver 1.30 / Kirschbaum Syn Gut Black 1.30 – 31sw points
- MSV Focus Hex Black 1.18 / Volkl Power Fiber Pro 1.25 – 26sw points
- Head Lynx Tour Gray 1.30 / Diadem Evolution Blue 1.30 – 30sw points
As you can see, the 100 16x20 has a decent amount of face weight.
Really has a decent amount of face weight! Thanks again my friend for all informations!
Good luck with the search. Will be interested to see the lowest SW they can find.
As for string bed swing weight in the Strike 100 16x20, for MF Black 1.30 / Sync 1.25, I would expect 27-29sw points.
Hhere are the recorded string swing weights from my logs:
Full-Bed Poly:
- Babolat RPM Rough Orange 1.25 – 33sw points
- Gamma AMP Ocho Silver 1.30 / Head Hawk Black 1.30 – 33sw points
Non-Poly mains / Poly crosses:
- Gosen AK Pro CX Black Spiral 1.30 / Babolat RPM Rough Orange 1.25 – 28sw points
- Gosen AK Pro CX Black Spiral 1.30 / Gosen G-Tour 3 Black 1.18 – 25sw points
Poly mains / Non-poly crosses:
- Gamma AMP Ocho Silver 1.30 / Kirschbaum Syn Gut Black 1.30 – 31sw points
- MSV Focus Hex Black 1.18 / Volkl Power Fiber Pro 1.25 – 26sw points
- Head Lynx Tour Gray 1.30 / Diadem Evolution Blue 1.30 – 30sw points
As you can see, the 100 16x20 has a decent amount of face weight.
Trip, I would like to ask one more question, if tenniswarehouse doesn't have 2 strikes 100
Good luck with the search. Will be interested to see the lowest SW they can find.
As for string bed swing weight in the Strike 100 16x20, for MF Black 1.30 / Sync 1.25, I would expect 27-29sw points.
Hhere are the recorded string swing weights from my logs:
Full-Bed Poly:
- Babolat RPM Rough Orange 1.25 – 33sw points
- Gamma AMP Ocho Silver 1.30 / Head Hawk Black 1.30 – 33sw points
Non-Poly mains / Poly crosses:
- Gosen AK Pro CX Black Spiral 1.30 / Babolat RPM Rough Orange 1.25 – 28sw points
- Gosen AK Pro CX Black Spiral 1.30 / Gosen G-Tour 3 Black 1.18 – 25sw points
Poly mains / Non-poly crosses:
- Gamma AMP Ocho Silver 1.30 / Kirschbaum Syn Gut Black 1.30 – 31sw points
- MSV Focus Hex Black 1.18 / Volkl Power Fiber Pro 1.25 – 26sw points
- Head Lynx Tour Gray 1.30 / Diadem Evolution Blue 1.30 – 30sw points
As you can see, the 100 16x20 has a decent amount of face weight.
16/20 close to 290 sw unstrung I'm going to opt for 2 strikes 97 close to 290 sw unstrung, can you tell me if the static weight of 310 and the balance of 31 on the tenniswarehouse website is taking into account the leather grip? I say this because I don't like leather grips and I'm going to use the synthetic ones, the babolat team version which is thinner, and i like the balance of 31! Thanks again!
@M A - That sounds like a good fallback plan. Honestly, even if TW does have a couple 100 16x20's at/around 290sw unstrung, you might just want to opt for the 97 anyways (for which you should definitely be able to find a pair at 290sw, if not a tad lower just to be on the safe side for swing weight and customization window). Knowing the kind of handling that you're used to with your Vacuum Pro, the 97 will be less of a change, whereas the 100 16x20, while adding more forgiveness, free power/depth and off-center consistency, is noticeably more sluggish to twist, flick and maneuver in general, including a lower amount amount of immediate command of the hoop, owing mainly to the greater degree if handle-to-hoop disconnect, mainly from such long neck members coupled with the larger hoop, softer flex and wider beam. Overall, it's a trade-off and nothing comes for free. Perhaps you grab a pair of 97's to transition to initially, then bide your time on some low-enough spec 100 16x20's, only pulling the trigger on the very lowest ones you can find.
As for how TW measures the advertised spec on the 97 with regards to the leather grip: yes, the leather grip contributes to that 310g and 31cm unstrung spec. That said, I tend to find the Babolat leather grips to be "medium" in weight, right around 20 to low-20's grams installed. The Syntec Team is typically 11-13g installed, so you'll be lightening the racquet by about 10g in the handle, and probably giving up .3 to .4 cm of head-lightness in the process. Still, an unstrung spec of 300g/31.2-31.5cm/285-290sw would be lovely for customization, even potentially very playable in stock form, as long as you string low enough (with crisp/firm strings).
Hope that helps again!
As for how TW measures the advertised spec on the 97 with regards to the leather grip: yes, the leather grip contributes to that 310g and 31cm unstrung spec. That said, I tend to find the Babolat leather grips to be "medium" in weight, right around 20 to low-20's grams installed. The Syntec Team is typically 11-13g installed, so you'll be lightening the racquet by about 10g in the handle, and probably giving up .3 to .4 cm of head-lightness in the process. Still, an unstrung spec of 300g/31.2-31.5cm/285-290sw would be lovely for customization, even potentially very playable in stock form, as long as you string low enough (with crisp/firm strings).
Hope that helps again!
Trip, my guru, you always helps me. Thank you always for your availability. I will follow your advice and buy 2 Babolat Strike 97.
And I'll immediately start with a slightly bouncier, higher power bed of strings, like Rexis Speed Black (main) 1.25 / Multifeel Black (crosses) 1.25, tensioned around 52/50, and modify from there, as you had suggested. By putting these two non-poly strings together I will have to adjust them all the time, because they move? These two strings are crisper than using the Multifeel Black 1.30 (main) with the Restring Sync 1.25 (crosses), right?
I saw information on the internet that the Babolat leather replacement grip is 27 grams and that the Babolat synthetic team replacement grip is 12 grams. Making the racket 15 grams lighter in the handle in fact. Given this difference of 15 grams, you still think it is the best option to order rackets in these specifications (unstrung spec of 300g/31.2-31.5cm/285-290sw)?
How many grams of lead tape would you add in the handle to give it a balance of 31 and a static unstrung weight of 310 and do you think it is necessary to add any weight in the hoop?
Thanks again and sorry for so many questions, I've tested a lot of rackets and I want to be right this time! =)
All depends on how Rexis Speed slides on MF Black, but I wouldn't think so, at least not for the first few hours, as MF Black is arguably the slickest non-poly cross in existence, so it should keep the string bed fairly fluid, at least for the initial part of its life (there's also MonoGut ZX that you could use as a cross, but it's very finicky to string with, so I wouldn't suggest it for now).
Yeah, I would stick to those specs. You can make up the potential 15g difference in leather grip weight by adding handle mass under the syntec team grip, either internally (example: silicone + cotton ball method, or for a less-hard-to-undo approach, two equal-weighted pieces of shammy cloth, one stuffed into each half of the hairpin, with a little bit left popping up from each side so you can still pull each out if you ever chose to), or externally, either by purchasing 1 grip size down, then doing a 1/2-grip thickness heat shrink sleeve, or simply wrapping very thin .25g/inch 1/4" lead tape, spiral-wrapped up the grip pallet from where the tip of butt cap taper meets the grip pallet, all the way up the grip (for 15g, you'd need 60" of tape)). Then put on the syntec team over that. The heat-shrink sleeve method will undersize the grip slightly, and you'll loose just a tiny bit of bevel corner sharpness. The lead wrapping method will increase grip size almost indistinguishably, and won't really reduce bevel sharpness either.
Any of those methods will allow for handle weight added back in, but also spread evenly throughout, as opposed to just ticking blue-tack/putty under the butt cap and having all the weight concentrated there (which my be desirable, but I usually find equally spread out to be better).
Hope that helps again.
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You always help me! Thank you my friend!
Steve Huff
G.O.A.T.
The 2 I would think come closest would be 1) Volkl C10 Pro and 2) Pro Kennex Black Ace 315.
PistolPete23
Hall of Fame
Babolat PS definitely doesn’t have the classic feel. Whatever they put in the layup causes the racquet to be very muted. Yonex is the same. I almost only play with classic box beams. The Head Pro Tour 2.0 is the most recently released MP I’ve hit with that has that throwback classic feel.
Hi Trip! I'm from Brasília, which is the capital, but I managed to buy a pair of Pure Strike 97 in Rio, with 305 grams unstrung, 31.5 grams unstrung and 290 sw unstrung! I loved the racket, I thought it was soft and solid in just the right way! Here in Brazil it is difficult to find the multifilament strings that you recommended! I ended up putting the black Babolat Xcel 1.30 in the main and the Solinco Tour Bite Soft 1.25 in the cross due to lack of options. I didn't think it gave that crisp and lively feeling! If possible, I would like you to give me some full poly options that give this crisp and lively feeling even if I have to use lower tensions! I prefer to use full poly with lower tensions than multifilament strings which normally have to be tensioned a little higher! I asked for some options because I already want to use them here in Brazil and when I go to the United States in November I will buy the best option possible! Thank you very much!
Glad you were able to get ahold of some fairly on-spec Strike 97's (albeit a little under-spec on weight and higher in balance). Still a good starting spec.
As for strings, Xcel isn't very crisp at all. Pretty mushy, in fact. If you want to stick with a hybrid, I would replace Xcel with one of the following, one of which you must be able to find somewhere:
- Tecnifibre X-One Biphase
- Tecnifibre Multifeel
- Wilson NXT
As for full-bed poly that is crisp and lively, how about first trying full-bed Tour Bite Soft? It will be crisp, for sure, but perhaps not as lively or as much pop as you've looking for. Other options that will be crisp but still have decent pop/power:
- Luxilon Alu Power 1.20
- MSV Focus Hex Silver or Red 1.23
- Tecnifibre Ice Code 1.20 or 1.25
- Tourna Silver 7 Tour 1.25 (strung low)
As for strings, Xcel isn't very crisp at all. Pretty mushy, in fact. If you want to stick with a hybrid, I would replace Xcel with one of the following, one of which you must be able to find somewhere:
- Tecnifibre X-One Biphase
- Tecnifibre Multifeel
- Wilson NXT
As for full-bed poly that is crisp and lively, how about first trying full-bed Tour Bite Soft? It will be crisp, for sure, but perhaps not as lively or as much pop as you've looking for. Other options that will be crisp but still have decent pop/power:
- Luxilon Alu Power 1.20
- MSV Focus Hex Silver or Red 1.23
- Tecnifibre Ice Code 1.20 or 1.25
- Tourna Silver 7 Tour 1.25 (strung low)
Wilson NXT is the only one available here of these 3 options!
I would like to be more crisp and lively so i will try the Tecnifibre Ice Code!
Thanks again my friend!
Trip, I did a test using the alu power 1.25 fullbed with 46 lbs and I felt a little pain again in the left shoulder where I had the injury, i'm left-handed. With the xcel 1.30 on the mains and the tour bite soft 1.25 on the crosses I didn't feel any pain so I found and ordered at São Paulo the strings and strung the Pure Strike 97 as you suggested with the Yonex Rexis Speed 1.25 with 52 lbs mains and the multifeel black 1.25 for 50 lbs crosses. I'm feeling a bit of a lack of power, especially in my two-handed backhand, which has always had a lot of power, I'd like a suggestion, do you think it's better if I just reduce the strings tension, invert the strings by placing the multifeel mains or use a few grams of leadtape at 12 o'clock position? Thanks!
TennisHound
Legend
I agree 100%- i struggle to understand how so many can possibly list the Gravity as a classic old school feel racquet...
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
We should collectivly blackmail Fischer to get back into racquet business!
lazywombat
Rookie
Mold may be the same but it has no Ceramic component and beacause of this feel is different. Old classic "Fisher feel" is gone forever.
blackfrido
Hall of Fame
jackiechiles
New User
This is a good comparison. I find the vcore pro and percept lineups to feel pretty old school. They are muted but do have that nice ball pocketing and feature a fairly high static weight with a headlight balance.
I’ve never been able to adapt my forehand to the more evenly balanced modern frames like the blade.
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
Count on me!!
Hello everyone,
I know this topic may seem somewhat dated (same as my engagement rate!), but I’d greatly appreciate your insights, guidance, or redirection to a more relevant thread if appropriate. Any recommendations or advice would be most welcome.
I’m a male, born in the 80s, and have been playing tennis since childhood, though I’ve been largely inactive since 2012, with only sporadic play. I resumed in 2020 but had to pause again due to wrist injuries. Over the years, I’ve owned several rackets, including a children’s Donnay, a Dunlop, a Head Lite Tour 630, a Yonex SRD Tour 98, a Head Liquidmetal Prestige 600, and a Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 (remake) . I still own the Yonex, Head, and Wilson rackets. Looking back, I regret not purchasing the classic Head Prestige; I wasn’t keen on the Head Liquidmetal Prestige but kept it nonetheless. I’m now considering acquiring a PC600 or possibly the 2.0 version, as I’m drawn to their traditional look and feel.
I no longer aim to compete at a high level, focusing instead on competitive recreational play. I’m inclined to return to a Head racket.
Thank you for your help!
I know this topic may seem somewhat dated (same as my engagement rate!), but I’d greatly appreciate your insights, guidance, or redirection to a more relevant thread if appropriate. Any recommendations or advice would be most welcome.
I’m a male, born in the 80s, and have been playing tennis since childhood, though I’ve been largely inactive since 2012, with only sporadic play. I resumed in 2020 but had to pause again due to wrist injuries. Over the years, I’ve owned several rackets, including a children’s Donnay, a Dunlop, a Head Lite Tour 630, a Yonex SRD Tour 98, a Head Liquidmetal Prestige 600, and a Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 (remake) . I still own the Yonex, Head, and Wilson rackets. Looking back, I regret not purchasing the classic Head Prestige; I wasn’t keen on the Head Liquidmetal Prestige but kept it nonetheless. I’m now considering acquiring a PC600 or possibly the 2.0 version, as I’m drawn to their traditional look and feel.
I no longer aim to compete at a high level, focusing instead on competitive recreational play. I’m inclined to return to a Head racket.
Thank you for your help!
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