Dilettante
Hall of Fame
I'm totally convinced. English has much more of Latin than from Germanic. That's the impression I always have.
What non-native top player speaks the best and the worst English?
- Thread starter Cassius Clay
- Start date
I'm totally convinced. English has much more of Latin than from Germanic. That's the impression I always have.
rovex
Legend
And vice versa. More and more English words are creeping into the French vocabulary and the current president and die hard French are having fits over it. If you look for a decent job in France and don't speak you're screwed I'm afraid. It's a MUST when you're in the enterprise
President
Legend
Agreed. Djokovic strikes me as being the most intelligent of the top players.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I think a large part of the problem is that English is almost completely un-phonetic.It's virtually impossible to tell how a word is pronounced from the written word. The spoken and written forms have diverged considerably over the centuries.I've often thought that,of all languages,written English is the most in need of accents and symbols to indicate correct pronounciation.
I think they'd probably have to invent a few new ones though...lol!
Dilettante;5585030 But Italian is the easier language to pronounce and learn for a Spaniard. Italian and Spanish are very said:
rovex
Legend
Yes, I'm sure Latin plays a much larger role in the English we know today. Ive done german before and I couldn't find a single word which sounded the same or very similar in English. Conversely, there are numerous words in French and English Which sound identical and spelled practically the same.
I will say though, I did Spanish and couldn't get a grip on it. Speaking English and French I was sure that I could do well but that was far from the case. It's totally different to french and English I found. Some words I recognised which are the same in French but the disparity between the two is phenomenal. Their tendency of speaking 200 miles an hour makes it even more difficult! But I think French is the harder language to learn from what I've heard, Predominantly writing.
...typing this out on an iPhone is such a pain in the back...
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ChopShot
Semi-Pro
You shouldn't be. It's hogwash, what them two be up too.
In fact, QUITE IRONICALLY, modern english derives la plupart of its vocabulary from two sources. French, and proto-germanic. See, the whole norman invasion brought with it an entirely french aristocracy. As such, the legal lingua franca in the UK, as of now, is still very much influenced by the french spoken from the 12-14th century. Likewise, most modern words that would have pertained to the interests of the aristocracy at this point are french influenced.
The language of the common blighter, on the other hand, is a rich potpourri of danish, proto-germanic, gaelic and latin. Oh, and some cornish and kentish as well.
Which brings us to english grammar. English grammar is just about unexplainable. It appears to me, after lengthy and diligent pondering, that english grammar is become exactly what one would expect of such a stranger-than-fiction linguistic cluster-shag. It defies logic. All logic.
As quoted in Bill Bryson's quite excellent "Mother Tongue", and now quoted by me: "I heard a story once of a japanese immigrant who gave up on learning english after seeing a newspaper billboard with the headline "Fétè pronounced success"."
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Perhaps because there seem to be many Latin derived words.But how on earth can you think that English is similar to the true Latin-derived languages like French,Spanish and Italian? Its basic grammar and pronounciation is Anglo-Saxon,not Latin!
cucio
Legend
I strongly disagree, when I was learning Dutch I found it shared a lot with English: lexical roots, verb conjugation, including phrasals (separabele werkwoorden), you can even find the crazy numbering system in old English (five-and-twenty instead of twenty-five.)
tacou
G.O.A.T.
tursunov, haas and sharapova for sure win this category, Woz is pretty good too at such a young age.
Nadal is kind of up and down, never seemed fluent but I heard him speak recently and feel like he sort of lost his grasp a little bit. Had somewhat of a busy 2010 though...
The French players have pretty poor grammar, del potro I can't understand at all
Nadal is kind of up and down, never seemed fluent but I heard him speak recently and feel like he sort of lost his grasp a little bit. Had somewhat of a busy 2010 though...
The French players have pretty poor grammar, del potro I can't understand at all
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Not a single one...REALLY???
English = Son
German = Sohn
French = Fils
English = Mother
German = Mutter
French = Mere
English = Father
German = Vater
French = Pere
English = Brother
German = Bruder
French = Frere
English = Sister
German = Schwester
French = Soeur
English = Day
German = Tag
French = Jour
English = Morning
German = Morgen
French = Matin
English = Evening
German = Abend
French = Soir
English = Sunday,Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday,Friday,Saturday
German = Sonntag,Montag,Dienstag,Mittwoch,Duurstag,Freitag,Samstag
French = Dimanche,Lundi,Mardi,Mercredi,Vendredi,Jeudi,Samedi
These are just a few examples.Spot the ones that seem different (I've highlighted them for you).
rovex
Legend
Yeah, there are similarities but equally there are some which are difficult to distinguish in that very list.
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
I'm the surprised the Spanish don't speak English very well with the amount of drunken fights between from people from Manchester in various parts of Spain every summer.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
But even those are closer to each other than the French examples!
English: one,two,three,four five,six,seven,eight,nine,ten
German:eins,zwei,drei,vier,funf,sechs,sieben,achts,neun,zehn
Dutch: een.twee,drie,vier,vijf,zes,zeven,acht,negen,tien
French: un,deux,trois,quatre,cinq,six,sept,huit,neuf,dix.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Even more surprising that these people from Manchester haven't become fluent in Spanish by now!
He may have grown up speaking in German (dad) and English (mom) and French in school or from friends. Or maybe Dad or mom speak French as well. He speaks all 3 languaqges fluently. Most Europeans speak at least 2, more likely 3, or sometimes even 7 or 8 languages fluently due to the proximity of one country to the other. This does not include the most Brits who speak English only and have no interest in foreign languages or food (except for currry). Oh yes, the Queen is an exception and speaks fluent French. Allez QE II!
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Usually inspired by "the Beautiful Game"
This would be a non-verbal form of communication perfected over centuries (sometimes hooligans compete, other times armadas). Imagine the amount of altercations that would ensue if the Brits actually had a few blokes who knew how to play tennis!
This would be a non-verbal form of communication perfected over centuries (sometimes hooligans compete, other times armadas). Imagine the amount of altercations that would ensue if the Brits actually had a few blokes who knew how to play tennis!
Mainad
Bionic Poster
You evidently haven't watched much British TV recently or you'd be overwhelmed by the number of cookery programmes being shown on various different channels!
Mainad
Bionic Poster
There is a cast-iron law that governs British tennis.Only one decent player can be produced per generation!
decent...Merriam Webster dicitionary...Fairly good
Well, I think that`s what Britain has done.
Pozarevacka
Banned
Although the words might not look the same they are pronounced basically the same. Latin has no basis in the English language. Certain words are taken and expanded upon from Latin (as is the case in German) but the core of English is German.
German English Latin
Weisse = White = Albus
Blau = Blue = Caeruleus
Haus = House = Domus (Dom in Serbian is dwelling)
Woher = Where = Qua
Was = What = Que
English is not derived from Latin, because if it were, then it would be a Romance Language. By definition a Romance Language is one derived from Latin. Therefore, it should be a closed case, as English IS NOT a Romance Language. Not sure how it's a debate.
Bloodshed
Professional
Obviously for me: Federer, Djokovic, Blake, Roddick are some of the best individual who speaks English properly.
If there's one guy I never wish he'd be involved in a speech trophy presentation is Fernando Gonzalez. Wow this guy really blows when it comes to speak English and makes guys like Del Potro, Berdych, Nadal look like godly speakers in comparaison.
If there's one guy I never wish he'd be involved in a speech trophy presentation is Fernando Gonzalez. Wow this guy really blows when it comes to speak English and makes guys like Del Potro, Berdych, Nadal look like godly speakers in comparaison.
reversef
Hall of Fame
English is considered the most "latin" of the germanic languages and french is the most "germanic" of the romance languages. It comes from their history, the invasions, the contacts between the languages. French has a germanic superstrate and english has a norman superstrate.
rovex
Legend
Once a french told me he thought English was a more difficult language than french and made me chuckle. English is the easiest language you can Learn. And French perhaps the most difficult in western europe.
batz
G.O.A.T.
I don't pretend to be a linguist as I have a very poor aptitude for languages but I do have a smattering of Spanish (pero mi vocabulario es moy limitado) and whilst English might be firmly rooted in German, there seem to be many Romantic influences e.g. nearly every word in English ending in '-tion' is the same in Spanish except it is '-cion' in Spanish. Most English words ending in '-ary' in English are the same in Spanish but the ending becomes '-ario', many words ending '-ant' or '-ent' in English are the same word in Spanish just pronounced slightly differently, anything ending '-cal' in English is the same in Spanish except it ends '-co', Most words ending '-ble' in English is the same word in Spanish but pronounced slighty differenly.
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cucio
Legend
English grammar is one of the easiest there are: simple verb conjugation, almost no trace of gender, etc. Its expressiveness comes more from a broad vocabulary where almost-synonyms contribute subtle nuances to the overall meaning of the sentence. Acquiring this lexicon is the hard part. That and the fuzzy pronunciation rules: you say tomato and all that...
Out of Western languages, I'd say German has to have the most difficult grammar, because of declination and word ordering.
Yup, probably most of those come from Latin, or maybe in some case they use Latin inflections over Germanic roots, although I cannot come up with an example. There are, of course, exceptions. For instance, "hesitation" or "damnation" come from Latin, but have no homophone equivalent in Spanish, there is no such thing as "hesitación" or "dañación".
In Spanish is some sort of a joke to make up English-sounding words by changing the pronunciation of those inflections. In many cases they mean the same, in others they don't exist or have a slightly different meaning.
This can lead to funny situations, what linguists call "false friends". For instance, the word "affection": in Spanish "afección" is used exclusively in its medical sense, a pathological condition. So be careful if you are trying to woo a Spanish chick and want to express your feelings for her.
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Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
On women's, I found Mauresmo's English quite good.
reversef
Hall of Fame
I don't know if French is the most difficult language since it's my own language. I'm sure that it must be a torture for a foreign speaker to learn the grammar and spelling, but for the rest, I don't know. I don't think that english is such an easy language though. Definitely easier than german for example, yes. But it takes years to understand spoken english. I remember how it was for me at the beginning (and for everyone else who starts learning the language): you hear an easy sentence like, I don't know, "It's a beautiful day!" and you are
"What? I don't know those words ". Then you feel 
when you see them written. English is difficult for our ears, just like it's difficult for Spaniards and Italians. This is the explanation since you know french (impossible for me to explain in english):http://www.proteac.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114&Itemid=109&lang=pl
So, to answer the OP's question: you have very good chances to find the best english speakers amongst Russians, Serbians, Croatians, Czechs, Germans, Swedes (and all the players who speak a germanic or a slavic language) and most of the worst ones amongst the players who speak a romance language (and, of course, it's even more difficult for chinese or japanese players). There are exceptions, of course.
batz
G.O.A.T.
LOL - thank you for the tip; but I'm sure my wife would object!
Like I said, I only have a smattering of Spanish - just enough to get by when I go to Tenerife.Also re exceptions - translation (traduxion) and explanation (explication) don't comply to the 'rules' I posted.
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rovex
Legend
I don't know if French is the most difficult language since it's my own language. I'm sure that it must be a torture for a foreign speaker to learn the grammar and spelling, but for the rest, I don't know. I don't think that english is such an easy language though. Definitely easier than german for example, yes. But it takes years to understand spoken english. I remember how it was for me at the beginning (and for everyone else who starts learning the language): you hear an easy sentence like, I don't know, "It's a beautiful day!" and you are
http://www.proteac.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114&Itemid=109&lang=pl
So, to answer the OP's question: you have very good chances to find the best english speakers amongst Russians, Serbians, CroatianMs, Czechs, Germans, Swedes (and all the players who speak a germanic or a slavic language) and most of the worst ones amongst the players who speak a romance language (and, of course, it's even more difficult for chinese or japanese players). There are exceptions, of course.
Both the French and english find it difficult to grasp the concept of verbs being the other way round. Like for example, a blue bike. In French, it translates as 'bike blue'. This confuses a lot of individuals from both parties. I'm not really French well, half French, but I've lived in France in the past and speak and write sufficiently well. It's not my maternal language, though.
But one thing I have noticed is how both languages use such similar sounding and written words. I still maintain that Latin is more prominent in the English language than Germanic. Yes, "father" and "brother" and those words are similar in german and not in French but I'm mainly referring to adjectives and just soo many other words that I hear when having a conversation with somebody who speaks English and somebody who speaks French.
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origmarm
Hall of Fame
I never knew Dalmatian was a language. That and I thought Hercegovacki was essentially a very close dialect of Bosnian. Not that I'm some sort of weird language specialist, just I work with two Bosnians so you hear this sort of chat sometimes.
You learn something new every day.
Orig
dominikk1985
Legend
Yes english has definitely german origins. the english people where derived from german tribes called anglo saxons (there is still a district called saxony in germany).
there were the of course the celts who were the native people (the red haired ones
) but most are anglo saxons and english is not close to celtic but more to german. (not sure on the celts though, maybe another one can elaborate on them)On the other hand spanish, italian, french and portuguese are romance (latin) languages which are very different.
thus german, dutch or scandinavian people have a very easy time learning english than the romance language countries which on the other hand learn the other romance languages better.
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You also have to bear in mind the culture of the country. The Netherlands, Denmark, Norway and Sweden all have a strong culture of learning other languages, and because English has been adopted as the universal/ business language, they will almost always learn English from a young age. For example, in the Netherlands, a large percentage of teenagers will already be fluent in English. Also, because the languages are quite similar, and the words are often pronounced in a similar way, you will often find that people from these countries won't have much of an accent (Swedish people often sound English/ American when speaking English, for example).
If you compare that to France, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc, the culture is very different.
I'm British, and i'm often ashamed at how awful we are at learning languages. I think it is a mixture of us being culturally arrogant, lazy, and not really needing to learn another language because English is so widely spoken. I have also found that when I try and speak the language of the country I am in, people will either interrupt me and speak English because they are either fluent in it (which happens a lot in the Netherlands), or interrupt me and speak English because they really want to practice their English and they don't often get much chance (which has happened to me in Poland and Thailand).
If you compare that to France, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc, the culture is very different.
I'm British, and i'm often ashamed at how awful we are at learning languages. I think it is a mixture of us being culturally arrogant, lazy, and not really needing to learn another language because English is so widely spoken. I have also found that when I try and speak the language of the country I am in, people will either interrupt me and speak English because they are either fluent in it (which happens a lot in the Netherlands), or interrupt me and speak English because they really want to practice their English and they don't often get much chance (which has happened to me in Poland and Thailand).
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I don't know if French is the most difficult language since it's my own language. I'm sure that it must be a torture for a foreign speaker to learn the grammar and spelling, but for the rest, I don't know. I don't think that english is such an easy language though. Definitely easier than german for example, yes. But it takes years to understand spoken english. I remember how it was for me at the beginning (and for everyone else who starts learning the language): you hear an easy sentence like, I don't know, "It's a beautiful day!" and you are
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It's the same for me,as an English-speaker,in reverse.I can follow written French quite well but it is extremely difficult for me to follow a conversation and detect what a French-speaker is saying (the same with Spanish and Italian).You all speak so fast,hardly without any pauses,and it is difficult for me to make out one word from another.On the other hand,whilst the grammar is harder,I can understand spoken German much better because there are stresses and pauses that make it possible for me to recognize what is being said even if I don't always understand the words.
I find the Scandinavians and the Dutch speak the best English because I can barely detect any accent (except Robin Soderling for some reason).The Germans are also good but usually have more of an accent.I don't agree with you about Russians as I find that the Russian tennis players are amongst the worst English speakers (Davydenko,Kuznetsova) and all have very strong accents.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Take away the Germanic roots (Anglo-Saxon,Norse) and you will have no English language.Take away the Latin derived words and you can replace them with Anglo-Saxon equivalents or invent some.That's the essential difference.
reversef
Hall of Fame
Yes, we speak very fast. German is for me the easiest language to understand (phonetically speaking). It's easy to recognize the words because the Germans articulate very well. Knowing what those words mean is another thing though.
Russians have great language skills in general. There are always exceptions, of course. Davydenko's english is atrocious, but I don't know why. Kuznetsova's english is not great either, but it's ok. Dementieva?
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
English is pretty much the easiest language to learn imo.Atleast the basics are rather easy to grasp.Plus,in India spoken English isn't much of a problem because our pronunciations are very clear.Almost sharp,I'd say.
French is tough.Particularly spoken French because most people sort 'gobble up' half of a word while they talk-or that's what it sounds like.More often than not you HAVE to ask them to repeat and slow down a bit.
I don't get the reason for their hurry It's such a beautiful language.Speak it slowly,treasuring every word of it.But no,they start racing off and I'm completely lost
French is tough.Particularly spoken French because most people sort 'gobble up' half of a word while they talk-or that's what it sounds like.More often than not you HAVE to ask them to repeat and slow down a bit.
I don't get the reason for their hurry
It's such a beautiful language.Speak it slowly,treasuring every word of it.But no,they start racing off and I'm completely lost
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Pozarevacka
Banned
They are all just dialects of Serbian. The Serbian language was codified and reformed in what is presently Hercegovina. There is more variation in how someone speaks in Minnesota to that of New York than Serbia and Bosnia or Croatia. And on the lines how everything is over there, Americans speak American then.
J
Jchurch
Guest
Today I play match of lie, no? So and so ranked 4 millions 300 make it hard, no? I speak english good, no?
I mean get a clue dude.
origmarm
Hall of Fame
See what you mean. That's more or less what the chap next to me said when I asked him about it over lunch: "It's all the same, people just like to have their own name now". Like having Welsh English and Scottish English was how he put it.
Netzroller
Semi-Pro
I totally agree!!!
I'm German, and I've learned English as a foreign language. (some Latin and Spanish as well)
For beginners English is pretty easy. You just need a handful of rules to form a sentence, you don't have to worry about declination and such.
One thing I find difficult is tenses – you guys have 17 different tenses and a ton of rules when to use them:
Simple Present, Present Progressive , Simple Past , Past Progressive , Present Perfect Simple , Present Perfect Progressive , Past Perfect Simple , Past Perfect Progressive , Future I Simple (will), Future I Simple (going to), Future I Progressive , Future II Simple, Future II Progressive , Conditional I Simple , Conditional I Progressive , Conditional II Simple , Conditional II Progressive
...holy crap, give me a break:shock:
German grammar is a lot more difficult, however, it also offers more flexibility. Once you know the rules and have acquired a decent lexicon, you're able to say anything. You can just create new words that everyone who knows the language will understand. By rearranging the words you can slightly alter the meaning of the sentence. Also, there are things like the diminutive: You can give a word a certain ending making it sound little and cute. In English, you usually need a new word for that.
There are a lot more words in the English language, so at some point improving your language skills comes down to learning more and more words and knowing how exactly to use them. I can grab a German dictionary and I will know pretty much every word in there (except for some fancy old expressions that nobody uses anyway). From what I've heard, this is not true for English native speakers.
I'd also agree that the English pronunciation is harder, but I can't tell for sure. To me, it seems to be very irregular. Form example in German, there is a rule saying “sch” is pronounced different than what these letters are pronounced if the stand by themselves - but this is almost always true. I English, the same spelling is pronounced different for different words
For example:
Kansas is [ˈkænzəs]
Arkansas is [ˈɑɹkənsɔː]
Could anyone explain me how the 'Ar' totally changes the way 'kansas' is pronounced?:?
However, in German I find it harder to get the spelling right from simply hearing the word. You could write a word in different ways and it would be pronounced pretty much the same – therefore going the other way around is trickier.
I agree, but since this is my native tongue I might be the wrong person to ask.
While this might be a good thing at some point, it think it often gets in the way of speaking proper English if you're German. You try to pronounce every single letter accurately and it ends up sounding extremely stupid. I actually think a German accent is by far the worst of all. While French etc. people also struggle with pronunciation their accents adds something distinct to the language that I sometimes find appealing or at least tolerable. A German accent sound like trying to get it right, but failing miserably. That’s why I tried so hard to get rid of mine.
I don't know if you guys feel that way too, though. Do you have any preferences when it comes to accents?
It's Donnerstag not Duurstag
I can speak two languages and I find that polish is much more complex then english. There is the different gender sayings, but once you get a feel for the order of the words and such you are good. english is easy to learn. Some of the eastern european languages are quite similiar, like polish, ukrainian, etc.
For example the words
"I understand"
Polish - rozumiem
Ukrainian - YA rozumiyu
Serbian - Ja razumem
I have been around people at school from many countries around the world, I find that the Filipino people are the ones who have the least recognisable accent. I know a few who came here only around 3 years ago and when they speak I cannot tell of an accent.,
For example the words
"I understand"
Polish - rozumiem
Ukrainian - YA rozumiyu
Serbian - Ja razumem
I have been around people at school from many countries around the world, I find that the Filipino people are the ones who have the least recognisable accent. I know a few who came here only around 3 years ago and when they speak I cannot tell of an accent.,
Net I don't know if you guys feel that way too said:
I don't mind the German accent when speaking English, but it can sometimes sound quite hard, as if you are telling people off, a bit like a teacher speaking to a child. I like the way the French, Italians and Spanish sound speaking English because the accent is so strong, but it can sometimes be quite hard to understand.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Linguistics 101
Any quick study of a linguistics chart will yield the fact that English is considered a Germanic language but it is obviously the most basta**ized tongue on the planet. French roots from the Normans, Latin from the Roman occupations (any city ending in -chester is from Latin's "castra", meaning a military "camp"), Greek roots from the educated class (how else can you explain the "xenophobic" remarks on current threads re:unwanted presence of Canadians at London's year-ending event?)
As to the Romance branch of tongues, Spanish veers from the rest due to the Arabic influence. It shares a lot with Italian but Romanian is actually a closer cousin. Having lived in France and Italy as an American child, French was much more difficult to link the written to the spoken word (the silent "rules" are still hard to fathom). Italian is also easier to follow in conversation due to cadence. It seems to roll off the tongue.
The hardest part of German relates to the different placement of verbs due to changes in tense. In English, I change the following sentence in tense by adding a letter to a verb: I LIVE IN AMERICA becomes I LIVED IN AMERICA. In German: ICH WOHNE IN AMERIKA becomes ICH HABE IN AMERIKA GEWOHNT. Truly a more difficult conversation to follow, no?
Any quick study of a linguistics chart will yield the fact that English is considered a Germanic language but it is obviously the most basta**ized tongue on the planet. French roots from the Normans, Latin from the Roman occupations (any city ending in -chester is from Latin's "castra", meaning a military "camp"), Greek roots from the educated class (how else can you explain the "xenophobic" remarks on current threads re:unwanted presence of Canadians at London's year-ending event?)
As to the Romance branch of tongues, Spanish veers from the rest due to the Arabic influence. It shares a lot with Italian but Romanian is actually a closer cousin. Having lived in France and Italy as an American child, French was much more difficult to link the written to the spoken word (the silent "rules" are still hard to fathom). Italian is also easier to follow in conversation due to cadence. It seems to roll off the tongue.
The hardest part of German relates to the different placement of verbs due to changes in tense. In English, I change the following sentence in tense by adding a letter to a verb: I LIVE IN AMERICA becomes I LIVED IN AMERICA. In German: ICH WOHNE IN AMERIKA becomes ICH HABE IN AMERIKA GEWOHNT. Truly a more difficult conversation to follow, no?
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rovex
Legend
For you to decide, but there has been an influx of Poles and Romanians especially (and other eastern European nations) coming to western Europe over the years and taking most of the local people's jobs. It's caused problems in the countries with a high employment rate such as Germany, UK and france to a lesser degree, as eastern Europeans think they can improve their standard of living in these countries. This is a serious issue and the EU regulations on immigration is very poor. Poles/Romanians/eastern Europeans are prepared to work for a fraction less of what local's want. Not much anyone can do about it unless the eu comes to an agreement on putting visas in place for countries part of the EU.
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dirtballer
Professional
Vera Zvonereva speaks English very well with only a slight accent. Elena Dementieva is now retired but she spoke well. For Kuzy and Davy, English is a third language, not a second, so that may account for the difficulty.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Sharapova speaks the best English, I guess you can call her a Floridian but she was born elsewhere...
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