What NTRP are these 2 ?
- Thread starter BetaServe
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SlvrDragon50
Semi-Pro
IMO I don't think that guy is a pusher at all. All of his returns are placed very well...
FightMeAtTheNet
Rookie
I also agree that guy doesn't seem like a pusher. There are multiple points he comes in off a slice or topspin approach to finish with a volley. The videos only show highlights so can't see how many double faults they commit vs good 1st serves.
But off of just a very small highlight clip (which is highly unrealistic to accurately judge someone's NTRP as we've seen time and time again on this forum), the girl reminds me of younger women in their 20s who compete at the 4.5 level in the Northeast. Again, very hard to tell b/c I don't know her unforced error rate, but she has active feet, all of her strokes looked smooth, and she's young enough to move well compared to most other female players at 4.5 I've seen.
The guy plays her in similar fashion to how pros play against me during private lessons. Simply slicing back my deep balls to their backhand and pushing the envelope on my offensive game, not really trying to go for too much unless I messed up and fed them a short ball, only serves high margin kick serves to start the point off. If he's going 100% and that's just his regular play style then I'd guess he could do well at 4.0 but would not be surprised if OP later mentions he was trolling us with a top 200 junior training with a 5.0+ hitting partner.
But off of just a very small highlight clip (which is highly unrealistic to accurately judge someone's NTRP as we've seen time and time again on this forum), the girl reminds me of younger women in their 20s who compete at the 4.5 level in the Northeast. Again, very hard to tell b/c I don't know her unforced error rate, but she has active feet, all of her strokes looked smooth, and she's young enough to move well compared to most other female players at 4.5 I've seen.
The guy plays her in similar fashion to how pros play against me during private lessons. Simply slicing back my deep balls to their backhand and pushing the envelope on my offensive game, not really trying to go for too much unless I messed up and fed them a short ball, only serves high margin kick serves to start the point off. If he's going 100% and that's just his regular play style then I'd guess he could do well at 4.0 but would not be surprised if OP later mentions he was trolling us with a top 200 junior training with a 5.0+ hitting partner.
BetaServe
Professional
Don't worry I'm not trolling, cuz I'm the guy on the other side (the pusher) and I'm no 5.0
Don't worry I'm not trolling, cuz I'm the guy on the other side (the pusher) and I'm no 5.0
certainly not pusher.
good variety, top spin, slice, volley, good placement.
yes, the speed on this video is not impressive, but it is as well not too slow. average pace mostly.
but with so much variety and such placement it is as well not a must.
in particularly if you are a recreational player only, meaning you don't try to go to ATP level tournaments.
service.
if this highlight is representative, it looks like you are only going for somewhat slow kick-serves.
but again, good kick, good placement.
C
Chadalina
Guest
5.0+ for women, he gave her slow rollers and short balls. Banging she did fine.
Younger players are rythmatic, think that was his intentions. She attacked the short ball, not counter against someone who couldnt get it with a drop shot. Good practice session.
FiReFTW
Legend
Ok, but ntrp sucks so il rate in UTR
Girl:
Great athletic footwork and movement, good strokes and can finish shorter balls well but sometimes the ball lacks pace on non balanced shots and overall game looks good but not great, almost like a lack of mileage.
Guy:
Extremely lazy footwork and movement and very casual swing speed at like 50% but with good placement consistency and variety
Conclusion
Girls footwork is high class but shots and game alltogether not at the level of top junior girls.
So girl must be either a junior tennis player but either younger around 13-15 or if shes older like 16+ shes not a serious junior that trains daily for 3-4 hours.
Or she trained/trains another sport seriously and plays tennis as a 2nd one.
My guess is UTR7~
Guy has good control of shots and volleys has good variety and placement and overall game looks better more mature than girls.
But footwork is extremely poor of that of a 80year old and swing speed at like 50%.
Stroke technique looks good too.
So two options, either he must have had some coaching or developed his strokes with other methods like youtube etc seriously, but doesnt look like he ever developed footwork and also never seriously played other sports at a high level for the footwork to be so lacking. And this swing speed is his limit of having good control and placement of shots.
In that case he looks UTR 7~
Or second option, he has great footwork and good control at much higher swing speeds but is casually playing down to the girls level, which happens alot with coaches or other juniors when they teach lower level players and move so casual and slow and have a controlled swing speed.
In which case he could be UTR 8~11
So @BetaServe how close am I
Girl:
Great athletic footwork and movement, good strokes and can finish shorter balls well but sometimes the ball lacks pace on non balanced shots and overall game looks good but not great, almost like a lack of mileage.
Guy:
Extremely lazy footwork and movement and very casual swing speed at like 50% but with good placement consistency and variety
Conclusion
Girls footwork is high class but shots and game alltogether not at the level of top junior girls.
So girl must be either a junior tennis player but either younger around 13-15 or if shes older like 16+ shes not a serious junior that trains daily for 3-4 hours.
Or she trained/trains another sport seriously and plays tennis as a 2nd one.
My guess is UTR7~
Guy has good control of shots and volleys has good variety and placement and overall game looks better more mature than girls.
But footwork is extremely poor of that of a 80year old and swing speed at like 50%.
Stroke technique looks good too.
So two options, either he must have had some coaching or developed his strokes with other methods like youtube etc seriously, but doesnt look like he ever developed footwork and also never seriously played other sports at a high level for the footwork to be so lacking. And this swing speed is his limit of having good control and placement of shots.
In that case he looks UTR 7~
Or second option, he has great footwork and good control at much higher swing speeds but is casually playing down to the girls level, which happens alot with coaches or other juniors when they teach lower level players and move so casual and slow and have a controlled swing speed.
In which case he could be UTR 8~11
So @BetaServe how close am I
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
The pusher server is a 4.0-4.5.
The girl is a 3.5.
The girl is a 3.5.
FiReFTW
Legend
Hahaha, good joke.
BetaServe
Professional
Girl's a 14 year old junior tennis player and she just won a tournament recently. I think her NTPR is at least 4.5.
Regarding my lazy footwork and my casual play style, I like Tomic, Kyrgios and Fognini so that explains why haha I know it might sound strange but being "lazy" with the feet helps me focus more on executing shots.
Regarding my lazy footwork and my casual play style, I like Tomic, Kyrgios and Fognini so that explains why haha I know it might sound strange but being "lazy" with the feet helps me focus more on executing shots.
FiReFTW
Legend
So basically considering her age shes around UTR 6-8 depending on how good of a junior she is, average being UTR7.
And shes 14 years old, and a junior.
So basically im amazing
BetaServe
Professional
Correction: She's 13.So basically considering her age shes around UTR 6-8 depending on how good of a junior she is, average being UTR7.
And shes 14 years old, and a junior.
So basically im amazing
FiReFTW
Legend
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Top high school national top 100s are 4.0-4.5, Division 3, are 4.5-5.0.
This girl is no top 100 Juniors!
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Tomic,Kyrgios, and Fognini can afford to look lazy because they are all very talented, with best training from young age. Put a 4.0 that can run in front of you, see if you can still be lazy to focus on executing shots
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dimkin
Hall of Fame
Girl: F4.5-5.0 Very Solid, maybe lacking pace, but great movement
Pusher: Seems not a pusher at all ... but tough to say ... clearly M4.5+ maybe a M5.0-5.5 but playing down / fkcing around... VERY precise junk balling.
Wise one
Hall of Fame
The girl hasn't a clue what to do with a short ball; she hits it cross-court with top-spin, and loses the point to well-placed lobs. She seems deathly afraid of the net, cannot hit an overhead, and uses a two-handed backhand. Whoever taught her is a criminal!
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Saul Goode
Semi-Pro
Said the old crank
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Two hand backhand is not evil it is good
Wise one
Hall of Fame
Nope.
golden chicken
Hall of Fame
I would've guessed 4.0
ontologist
New User
Dude this is so wrong. Top 100 junior girls (18 years old) would beat so many male 5.0s
FiReFTW
Legend
Top 100 junior girls are around 9-10UTR which is around 5.0 male level
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Top 100 Junior girls are 10-11UTR and competitive with average male 5.0s.
J
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Everyone’s rating always gets hacked down 2-3 levels on the board because those offering the stingy ratings most likely have never seen a video of themselves playing so they operate in the realm of “I’m so great on my mind’s eye.”
FiReFTW
Legend
Ive seen alot of video of my play and also im nowhere near 5.0 why would I hack down the ratings because of that? That doesn't make sense to me.
Yes I said they are competitive with male 5.0s, here in my parts the top 18s junior girls are not that good generally as in the US, small country and not alot of girls thats why, usually they are spanning from UTR7-UTR9 with maybe a UTR10 thrown it, but thats an outliner.
Thats why I rather went to this site and took those UTR9-10 ratings from here since it shows the US girls where its alot bigger pool of players:
Girls' College Recruiting Lists
www.tennisrecruiting.net
Then I went to freshmen girls and opened up a few profiles and these top100 seem to go from UTR9-10 with a few UTR11s also in the top
But if im not mistaken freshmen girls are 19yo arent they? or 20? Thats why I said the 18s are probably UTR9-10
Im not saying im right I actually have no clue, thats why I went to check, but thats just what my foundings were from this, and this is where I got that rating from
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Ive seen alot of video of my play and also im nowhere near 5.0 why would I hack down the ratings because of that? That doesn't make sense to me.
Yes I said they are competitive with male 5.0s, here in my parts the top 18s junior girls are not that good generally as in the US, small country and not alot of girls thats why, usually they are spanning from UTR7-UTR9 with maybe a UTR10 thrown it, but thats an outliner.
Thats why I rather went to this site and took those UTR9-10 ratings from here since it shows the US girls where its alot bigger pool of players:
Girls' College Recruiting Lists
Then I went to freshmen girls and opened up a few profiles and these top100 seem to go from UTR9-10 with a few UTR11s also in the top
But if im not mistaken freshmen girls are 19yo arent they? or 20? Thats why I said the 18s are probably UTR9-10
Im not saying im right I actually have no clue, thats why I went to check, but thats just what my foundings were from this, and this is where I got that rating from
Freshman girls are 14.
J
FiReFTW
Legend
That makes even less sense to me then, how are these 14yo girls UTR11
And when you go to seniors they are also UTR11 tops, maybe an outliner UTR12 somewhere
Extremely confused
navigator
Hall of Fame
Posting actual points... that's helpful. Just my guess, but...
I'm guessing the guy is a (male) middling 4.5 and the girl is a (female) low 5.0 (so, subtract 0.5 on the male scale). She has great footwork and groundstrokes, and a pretty good serve, but not much net game or touch.
It's video, so I could be wrong.
I'm guessing the guy is a (male) middling 4.5 and the girl is a (female) low 5.0 (so, subtract 0.5 on the male scale). She has great footwork and groundstrokes, and a pretty good serve, but not much net game or touch.
It's video, so I could be wrong.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
FiReFTW
Legend
Nothing I guess I just expected more differences from 14 to 18yo
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
He gets confused easily.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
He gets confused easily.
Stuff like this is frustrating...
J
BetaServe
Professional
Question: assume there are different ways to play her but there’s only one or two specific ways I can play to beat her. If I play her in other ways I’d lose to her very easily. So, is she still considered a 5.0? (Assuming I’m a 4.0)
I played in total 5 matches against her. First two matches she beat me pretty badly like any 5.0 would beat a 4.0 but then I won the next 3 because I found holes in her game and I kept exploiting them by playing certain specific shots. She didn’t even realize and adjust so she kept losing in those specific scenarios, partly because I mixed my shots to make it less obvious that I was trying to play those shots/patterns on important points.
One pattern would be to make her come to the net using low shots (preferably slice) then lob her since she’s not very tall and her smash isn’t that good (and I have a pretty good lob) and also I can almost always guess where she’s hitting her approach shot. Another pattern is I play a slice down the middle to her backhand, she has a tendency to slice it back so I just need to come to the net and volley it away. I also won most of the points using dropshots, I like to use it while she’s recovering back to the middle (after hitting a running FH/BH)
I played in total 5 matches against her. First two matches she beat me pretty badly like any 5.0 would beat a 4.0 but then I won the next 3 because I found holes in her game and I kept exploiting them by playing certain specific shots. She didn’t even realize and adjust so she kept losing in those specific scenarios, partly because I mixed my shots to make it less obvious that I was trying to play those shots/patterns on important points.
One pattern would be to make her come to the net using low shots (preferably slice) then lob her since she’s not very tall and her smash isn’t that good (and I have a pretty good lob) and also I can almost always guess where she’s hitting her approach shot. Another pattern is I play a slice down the middle to her backhand, she has a tendency to slice it back so I just need to come to the net and volley it away. I also won most of the points using dropshots, I like to use it while she’s recovering back to the middle (after hitting a running FH/BH)
FiReFTW
Legend
And what exactly is frustrating about someone not knowing something since he never checked it but then checking it out on a webpage and assuming he now has the facts about that???
I was wrong because I thought those freshmen girls are 19 or so, but at the time i cheked it out I assumed that they are 19 which made me confident about the ratings.
I think im just gonna leave this forum, ive already been close to doing it in the past weeks but now seriously, this has to be the most toxic forum ever.
People just randomly poking and making fun out of people for no reason, attacking others for no reason, making fun of someones video or strokes yet offering no input, quoting ttps posts and laughing at them and making fun of them after he clearly blocked those people so whats the point of that even if the post is ridicilous, people who actually make genuine advice and observations on someones video all offering completely contradicting advice and input..
Theres really no point to even be here anymore, ive only stuck around because I learned at least a few things now and enjoy offering my advice and help to others, but even that gets p*ssed on and made fun of, so p*ss off ttw forum.
BetaServe
Professional
Relax man.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Gauff's an outlier. The #1 girl in this year's senior class on TRN is a UTR 12.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Not everything is about you. In fact, you are on my ignore list so I never saw your post.
Are you one of those offering stingy ratings? Or are you confused again?
TT definitely has some great tennis eyes. I remember someone posted a video of himself playing, great serve great footwork, very awesome forehand. He even mentioned he played in 5.0 tournaments and stuff. And he got TT rated low 4.5. Now @BetaServe posted his own video. His style definitely looks lazy and junky ( no offense, i don't mean its easy to play against). And he got TT rated 4.5 or 5.0. What is going on people?
C
Chadalina
Guest
Alot of people here need validation as players and instructors.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You just have to be able to filter out the toxins: a few post mostly crap, a few mostly insight, and the rest are in between. Determining which is which and who is whom is a personal thing.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Because you say something like it's a fact then two posts later say you actually have no idea.
Why would you make that original post?
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, that's my point, if the outlier is 13 it's not illogical for another very good, among the best in the country to be two levels lower.
J
time_fly
Hall of Fame
My take: the guy is 4.5. The girl is apparently a Junior and doesn’t really belong on the NTRP scale. But if she were, she would be 4.5+. I belong to a large club with a dozen or so 4.5C females and I think the girl in the video looks better than most of them. We have a few that probably hit harder but flat. Only a couple could generate that much topspin and deal as well with incoming kick serves and slices. Most ladies club players, even at 4.5 level, don’t play with a lot of spin.
Wise one
Hall of Fame
This fits my criticisms of her game.
