what NTRP is this kid?

2.5

The problem with rating kids is that they don't hit the ball with any power and they can't get around the court.

You can't really compare a kid's rating with that of an adult which is what the NTRP system is based on.
 
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yes, hard to compare here. however he is clearly very good, you could look at his national or state ranking now and extrapolate. eg if he is top 20 nationally now then what rating are the top 20 18's? then assuming he remains top 20 you can easily work out what ntrp he is heading for at his level. he certainly has the makings of 5.0+ as long as he doesnt get bored of the game.

also the adult feeding him in the first clip is ok but not very consistent, probably 4.0 tops
 
ProgressoR said:
yes, hard to compare here. however he is clearly very good, you could look at his national or state ranking now and extrapolate. eg if he is top 20 nationally now then what rating are the top 20 18's? then assuming he remains top 20 you can easily work out what ntrp he is heading for at his level. he certainly has the makings of 5.0+ as long as he doesnt get bored of the game.

also the adult feeding him in the first clip is ok but not very consistent, probably 4.0 tops
Click to expand...

Yeah, Jim Courier is definitely a 4.0 tops. I hear Sampras never got beyond 4.5, either.
/facepalm to end all facepalms
 
Kid would lose in a good 3.5 tournament.
Jim Courier might still be a 6.5 level player now, but as he feeds the kid, he might as well be a 4.0. He's FEEDING, not playing competitively.
Little kid has no match experience, especially against adults. Any strategist would take the kid right off his game, make him crying to mommy in no time.
Obviously, kid as potential to be a top level junior, and even top level player, IN THE FUTURE.
Kids might run like rabbits, but they don't know where to run to, can't cover all that much court (see Karlovic cover court in 2 steps), haven't seen all the wierd shots that tennis can throw at you, and can be thrown off concentration.
 
LeeD said:
Kid would lose in a good 3.5 tournament.
Jim Courier might still be a 6.5 level player now, but as he feeds the kid, he might as well be a 4.0. He's FEEDING, not playing competitively.
Little kid has no match experience, especially against adults. Any strategist would take the kid right off his game, make him crying to mommy in no time.
Obviously, kid as potential to be a top level junior, and even top level player, IN THE FUTURE.
Kids might run like rabbits, but they don't know where to run to, can't cover all that much court (see Karlovic cover court in 2 steps), haven't seen all the wierd shots that tennis can throw at you, and can be thrown off concentration.
Click to expand...

hey u can't be so sure. maybe he has practice sets with some older players. Although this is true for some kids, but ive seen others that often adapt to the situation very well.
 
LeeD said:
Kid would lose in a good 3.5 tournament.
Jim Courier might still be a 6.5 level player now, but as he feeds the kid, he might as well be a 4.0. He's FEEDING, not playing competitively.
Little kid has no match experience, especially against adults. Any strategist would take the kid right off his game, make him crying to mommy in no time.
Obviously, kid as potential to be a top level junior, and even top level player, IN THE FUTURE.
Kids might run like rabbits, but they don't know where to run to, can't cover all that much court (see Karlovic cover court in 2 steps), haven't seen all the wierd shots that tennis can throw at you, and can be thrown off concentration.
Click to expand...




Courier at this stage could still beat some pros let alone 6.5 players.
 
Consigliere73 said:
2.5

The problem with rating kids is that they don't hit the ball with any power and they can't get around the court.

You can't really compare a kid's rating with that of an adult which is what the NTRP system is based on.
Click to expand...

It's definitely not 2.5, based on videos i have seen of supposed "4.0s" who cannot hit half as hard as this kid.
Also, he is huge for a 9 year old.
 
Lol, people obviously underestimate how good even the young top juniors are.

When Agassi was 9-12, his father had him hustling players at the local club, and he had beaten most of the players AT THE LOCAL COLLEGE.

This kid might not be as good as agassi at that time, I don't know what his ranking is. But if it's very good nationally, the 2.5-3.5 rankings are ludicrous.
 
LOL..some of you guys are idiots.

this kid will bagel most of you.

His footwork is deceptively good and better than anyone I have seen at my local club excluding the coaches.

2.5. HAHA. Get a life.
 
yeah, i don't see a 9 year old constantly being able to return a fast serve without eventually breaking down due to physical limitations. he's has no muscle mass period, and there's no denying this
 
LeeD said:
Kid would lose in a good 3.5 tournament.
Jim Courier might still be a 6.5 level player now, but as he feeds the kid, he might as well be a 4.0. He's FEEDING, not playing competitively.
Little kid has no match experience, especially against adults. Any strategist would take the kid right off his game, make him crying to mommy in no time.
Obviously, kid as potential to be a top level junior, and even top level player, IN THE FUTURE.
Kids might run like rabbits, but they don't know where to run to, can't cover all that much court (see Karlovic cover court in 2 steps), haven't seen all the wierd shots that tennis can throw at you, and can be thrown off concentration.
Click to expand...

your an idiot...

nadal, and federer were both DOMINATING everyone when they were his age...im sure other pros were also...most people self rating you can drop a full number...so if they say 4.0, there prob 3.0...if you say 3.0, there most likely 4.5

hes better than:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZWcj51b80I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCRV9sfPxoQ&feature=related

and probably any other video of 3.5's you can find...
 
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sonicare said:
He will bagel your sorry ***. I guarantee it.
Click to expand...

Most likely not. He's still a kid, and your comparison to Agassi is completely different than what happens today; especially because the game is much faster and physical than it was 25 years ago when Agassi was coming up.

A few years ago, I went to a sleep away camp and there was one kid there who was 12 and was one of the top juniors in the South East. However, me and the kid whose tent was next to mine could both kick his ass, despite the fact that his talent level was way beyond what me or my buddy could ever get to. Know why? We were much bigger. The kid, no matter that he played national level tournaments, had never faced a serve higher than 85 mph tops. My buddy was 6'5 215 and now plays D-1 Lax (he was only 16 at the time yet could knock the stuffing off the ball and he could top 115 on his serve) and I, despite only being 5'8 130, could crack 100 as well. The kid could rally with us, easily, but when we started hitting hard, there was no way for him to keep up because we were considerably bigger than him. Mike (the kid who lived next to me) could kick it over my head and when the junior tried to return Mike's serve, he stood no chance of even seeing the ball. Mine either.


This kid in the video the OP posted is good, but he ain't the second coming, and any grown-up with a decent level of play should be able to take out a 9-year-old, no matter how talented he is.
 
HunterST said:
Lol, people obviously underestimate how good even the young top juniors are.

When Agassi was 9-12, his father had him hustling players at the local club, and he had beaten most of the players AT THE LOCAL COLLEGE.

This kid might not be as good as agassi at that time, I don't know what his ranking is. But if it's very good nationally, the 2.5-3.5 rankings are ludicrous.
Click to expand...

sonicare said:
LOL..some of you guys are idiots.

this kid will bagel most of you.

His footwork is deceptively good and better than anyone I have seen at my local club excluding the coaches.

2.5. HAHA. Get a life.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Maybe he can't physically hit as hard as an adult can, but 2.5-3.5's don't hit as hard as they can and have it go in. He would definitely beat a 2.5 in about half an hour, 6-0 6-0.
 
A 2.5? That kid would kick ass.
But an adult (or anyone) with a serve over 80 mph? He'll never be able to return it. Until he turns 12, then he'll kick all our butts.
No 9 year old is built with enough muscle to withstand that pace for long. Let alone a heavy topspin shot, which will jump way over the kid's head, lol.
You can't compare a good 9-year-old vs. a medium adult. It's like apples and oranges.
 
3.5. i'm around a 3.0-3.5 and i can say this kid would kill me in consistency, but by the looks of it i can over power him quite easily. i would say he would destroy most 3.0s purely because of consistency. at 3.5 a player figures out that if they can't beat them in rallies just crank the ball or do high looping shots over the kid's head. power and height is going to be the reason it'll be tough for a kid to get high up on ntrp. when this kid hits puberty though he'll sky rocket in the ratings.
 
LeeD said:
Kid would lose in a good 3.5 tournament.
Jim Courier might still be a 6.5 level player now, but as he feeds the kid, he might as well be a 4.0. He's FEEDING, not playing competitively.
Little kid has no match experience, especially against adults. Any strategist would take the kid right off his game, make him crying to mommy in no time.
Obviously, kid as potential to be a top level junior, and even top level player, IN THE FUTURE.
Kids might run like rabbits, but they don't know where to run to, can't cover all that much court (see Karlovic cover court in 2 steps), haven't seen all the wierd shots that tennis can throw at you, and can be thrown off concentration.
Click to expand...

Kid would beat every 3.5 and most 4.0s. you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
I think the kid would prob beat most 3.5 and go toe to toe with a solid 4.0 depending on their play style. If he is playing a 4.0 junk baller he could probably beat them in straight sets, but if he's playing a hard hitting 4.0 the match would go to the adult just because they are more physical.

It all depends...
 
StringingIrvine said:
I think the kid would prob beat most 3.5 and go toe to toe with a solid 4.0 depending on their play style. If he is playing a 4.0 junk baller he could probably beat them in straight sets, but if he's playing a hard hitting 4.0 the match would go to the adult just because they are more physical.

It all depends...
Click to expand...

More likely he'd lose to the junkballer. There's no doubt that he is much more consistent than almost anyone on this forum, but he doesn't have very much experience, and probably plays against the same baseline grinders day in, day out. A 4.0 that S/V's or junks, even behind a crappy serve, would make his head go boom. He just hasn't seen the crazy stuff tennis sometimes throws at you yet.
 
ChopShot said:
More likely he'd lose to the junkballer. There's no doubt that he is much more consistent than almost anyone on this forum, but he doesn't have very much experience, and probably plays against the same baseline grinders day in, day out. A 4.0 that S/V's or junks, even behind a crappy serve, would make his head go boom. He just hasn't seen the crazy stuff tennis sometimes throws at you yet.
Click to expand...

Not much experience???

The kid is the number one ranked player in Australia. I think he's played quite a few tournaments. You, and a lot of other people, are SERIOUSLY underestimating the world's top juniors. They would eat a junkballer's lunch.

Everyone is talking like this is just some kid at the local club that can hit some balls back. HE'S NUMBER 1 IN AUSTRALIA.

Like I said, When Agassi was a kid and probably about the same level as this kid, he was beating experienced adults 6-0 AND taking out local college players.
 
WHOA. The people who said 2.5-3.5 clearly didn't watch the section of the video that is tournament play. The kid has some very high level strokes, can attack short balls, has GREAT footwork/anticipation.

I think what we have here is a case of people overrating their own abilities. 3.5s and 4.0s: tape yourself playing a match. You'll see you don't look anywhere near as good as this kid.

I know some top high school players that are, I would say, weak-mid 4.5s. I think this kid could easily hang with them in a match, and possibly beat them.
 
HunterST said:
WHOA. The people who said 2.5-3.5 clearly didn't watch the section of the video that is tournament play. The kid has some very high level strokes, can attack short balls, has GREAT footwork/anticipation.

I think what we have here is a case of people overrating their own abilities. 3.5s and 4.0s: tape yourself playing a match. You'll see you don't look anywhere near as good as this kid.

I know some top high school players that are, I would say, weak-mid 4.5s. I think this kid could easily hang with them in a match, and possibly beat them.
Click to expand...

there's a huge range of players in all sections. some play for high percentage and others go for all out power.

for the lower level players going for all out power will be a better equalizer in skills and will make it a closer match. for the high percentage players they will have to draw him up to net where his reach is lacking or lob him because of height.

most 3.0s in my opinion wouldn't stand a chance against this kid. but 3.5s and 4.0s definitely would. the kid is 5ft tall. holding serve shouldn't be a problem if they play topspin serves and head towards the net. the kid has incredible footwork, but a player that is quick on his feet will make up for it with longer reach.

remember, i'm talking about people that are fit, not the lazy ones that aren't willing to run for shots.
 
OKUSA said:
yes, and agassi grew up to win 8 grand slams. i highly doubt this kid will
Click to expand...

irrelevant argument.

1. We have no idea what this kid will do in the future

2. Regardless of Agassi's level as an adult, when he was nine, he was about at this kids level. Frequently, as a junior, Agassi lost to players who would never reach the level he did, but at the time, they were the same level.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kid is a little more advanced than Agassi was at 9.
 
Can't compare this kid with any of the top pros now...when they were junior.
Little people cannot cover court, plain and simple.
I played and practiced with kids who WON pro tournaments the following year, so what would they be? At least 5.5's, right? They were my level when I was C (a winning C player). Of course, following year, I mostly went multiple rounds in A-Open-5.5 and ProQ
 
autumn_leaf said:
there's a huge range of players in all sections. some play for high percentage and others go for all out power.

for the lower level players going for all out power will be a better equalizer in skills and will make it a closer match. for the high percentage players they will have to draw him up to net where his reach is lacking or lob him because of height.

most 3.0s in my opinion wouldn't stand a chance against this kid. but 3.5s and 4.0s definitely would. the kid is 5ft tall. holding serve shouldn't be a problem if they play topspin serves and head towards the net. the kid has incredible footwork, but a player that is quick on his feet will make up for it with longer reach.

remember, i'm talking about people that are fit, not the lazy ones that aren't willing to run for shots.
Click to expand...

This kid is NOT going to be surprised or overpowered by some hard hitting 4.0. I guarantee he's seen pace that equals the logic-defying power of a player that plays for fun on the weekends.

Also, if they're THAT hard hitting and still 4.0s, they must be pretty inconsistent. The kid would just give them enough rope to hang themselves.

There's a 14 year old kid at my club that has had competitive matches with a guy who is a LEGIT 4.0 (has won 4.0 tourneys). The young player isn't even in the top 100 in our USTA section.

Sure, 14 is a lot different than 9. But going by the logic that 4.0s would beat the kid in the video, that would mean an unranked 14 year old could beat Australia's number one 9 year old. I don't see that happening.
 
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HunterST said:
irrelevant argument.

1. We have no idea what this kid will do in the future

2. Regardless of Agassi's level as an adult, when he was nine, he was about at this kids level. Frequently, as a junior, Agassi lost to players who would never reach the level he did, but at the time, they were the same level.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kid is a little more advanced than Agassi was at 9.
Click to expand...

then it goes both ways, it's irrelevant

agassi was playing adults in the 80s and that technology of strings and racquets.

this kid is playing adults who are stronger, and also have better racquets and strings
 
HunterST said:
Not much experience???

The kid is the number one ranked player in Australia. I think he's played quite a few tournaments. You, and a lot of other people, are SERIOUSLY underestimating the world's top juniors. They would eat a junkballer's lunch.

Everyone is talking like this is just some kid at the local club that can hit some balls back. HE'S NUMBER 1 IN AUSTRALIA.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that the #1 refers to UAE, not Australia.
 
OKUSA said:
then it goes both ways, it's irrelevant

agassi was playing adults in the 80s and that technology of strings and racquets.

this kid is playing adults who are stronger, and also have better racquets and strings
Click to expand...

Your argument was irrelevant because it was comparing Agassi as an Adult to this kid as an adult.. That calls for a tremendous amount of speculation. I'm simply highlighting that top juniors have always had the ability to adults with lesser skill sets.

Agassi was a great junior, but not that absolute top player, that means him and this kid were very close in skill levels at this age. Agassi destroyed adult players. You really think racket and string technology has changed that?
 
HunterST said:
This kid is NOT going to be surprised or overpowered by some hard hitting 4.0. I guarantee he's seen pace that equals the logic-defying power of a player that plays for fun on the weekends.

Also, if they're THAT hard hitting and still 4.0s, they must be pretty inconsistent. The kid would just give them enough rope to hang themselves.

There's a 14 year old kid at my club that has had competitive matches with a guy who is a LEGIT 4.0 (has won 4.0 tourneys). The young player isn't even in the top 100 in our USTA section.

Sure, 14 is a lot different than 9. But going by the logic that 4.0s would beat the kid in the video, that would mean an unranked 14 year old could beat Australia's number one 9 year old. I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...

well you're doing a comparison with a 14 yo. and i'm happy that you brought up that it is a lot different from being 9, but you don't really much info on the 14 yo. does he not compete in tournies? if he wanted to, could he be ranked? there's a good amount of players out there that can be ranked but aren't because of money issues, interest issues, etc. so if the 14 yo is ranked and competes, not obliterates, legit 4.0s doesn't that mean a 9 yo would struggle with 4.0s as well?

edit: as for the inconsistent power players. yes, some are inconsistent. but usually this is due to mentality. they just choose the wrong shots at the wrong times. i have a friend that 17 yo, probably 3.5-4.0. but he is 6ft4'' and his safety 2nd serve is to topspin a ball that kicks about 6.5 ft when it reaches me. he just doesn't know how to take advantage of his serve, he's been trying to s&v, which works wonders so it boggles my mind why he doesn't do it every time. his 1st serves he just goes for aces which is part of the mental issue. imo the ranked 1 9 yo will struggle against my friend because my friend will most likely hold all of his serves, has incredible reach, and is quite fit from track.
 
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HunterST said:
Your argument was irrelevant because it was comparing Agassi as an Adult to this kid as an adult.. That calls for a tremendous amount of speculation. I'm simply highlighting that top juniors have always had the ability to adults with lesser skill sets.

Agassi was a great junior, but not that absolute top player, that means him and this kid were very close in skill levels at this age. Agassi destroyed adult players. You really think racket and string technology has changed that?
Click to expand...

people were playing with wooden racquets and natural gut, hardly the situation this kid will have to face. balls will be heavier and faster. just a 10% increase in pace means he will not get to all the balls agassi would have against wooden racquets
 
autumn_leaf said:
well you're doing a comparison with a 14 yo. and i'm happy that you brought up that it is a lot different from being 9, but you don't really much info on the 14 yo. does he not compete in tournies? if he wanted to, could he be ranked? there's a good amount of players out there that can be ranked but aren't because of money issues, interest issues, etc. so if the 14 yo is ranked and competes, not obliterates, legit 4.0s doesn't that mean a 9 yo would struggle with 4.0s as well?

edit: as for the inconsistent power players. yes, some are inconsistent. but usually this is due to mentality. they just choose the wrong shots at the wrong times. i have a friend that 17 yo, probably 3.5-4.0. but he is 6ft4'' and his safety 2nd serve is to topspin a ball that kicks about 6.5 ft when it reaches me. he just doesn't know how to take advantage of his serve, he's been trying to s&v, which works wonders so it boggles my mind why he doesn't do it every time. his 1st serves he just goes for aces which is part of the mental issue. imo the ranked 1 9 yo will struggle against my friend because my friend will most likely hold all of his serves, has incredible reach, and is quite fit from track.
Click to expand...


He plays tournaments and he doesn't win.

I really don't know why you think your friend would beat this kid!

Everyone is looking at this as 9 year old vs Adult and not thinking objectively.

You're thinking "I don't know, 9 year olds are pretty small and weak, any adult would beat them!"

Just watch his tournament play as if he were any other player. If you think that a 3.5 is going to beat him or even be competitive against him, you're delusional.


Just for the record, I'm not trying to make this a heated argument. Some of my posts sound a little confrontational, but I'm just trying to make my points. All in good fun!
 
ubermeyer said:
Agreed. Maybe he can't physically hit as hard as an adult can, but 2.5-3.5's don't hit as hard as they can and have it go in. He would definitely beat a 2.5 in about half an hour, 6-0 6-0.
Click to expand...

Less than half an hour. This kid will most likely golden set a 2.5

Blee1613 said:
Wow guys really? 2.5-3.5? What are you guys smoking!?!?! Even I can see this kid who apparently has no muscle (It's not all about muscle guys) is amazing. Look at 6:34. Thats a ridiculous backhand. He has great form, and technique, and footwork. He has excellent control, and hits well with depth.
Click to expand...

Someone who gets it. Look at the depth of his shots + some of the angles hes hitting.

Ambivalent said:
Kid would beat every 3.5 and most 4.0s. you have no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Glad to see you admit it. I will admit it myself. I won't win a game against this kid.


HunterST said:
Not much experience???

The kid is the number one ranked player in Australia. I think he's played quite a few tournaments. You, and a lot of other people, are SERIOUSLY underestimating the world's top juniors. They would eat a junkballer's lunch.

Everyone is talking like this is just some kid at the local club that can hit some balls back. HE'S NUMBER 1 IN AUSTRALIA.

Like I said, When Agassi was a kid and probably about the same level as this kid, he was beating experienced adults 6-0 AND taking out local college players.
Click to expand...

Damn right. Kid is being TRAINED to be a proffesional tennis player. He most likely hits 2+ hours a day with good coaches beside him. some of the nonsense being spewed by posters here is beyond ridiculous.

HunterST said:
WHOA. The people who said 2.5-3.5 clearly didn't watch the section of the video that is tournament play. The kid has some very high level strokes, can attack short balls, has GREAT footwork/anticipation.

I think what we have here is a case of people overrating their own abilities. 3.5s and 4.0s: tape yourself playing a match. You'll see you don't look anywhere near as good as this kid.

I know some top high school players that are, I would say, weak-mid 4.5s. I think this kid could easily hang with them in a match, and possibly beat them.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Well put.


HunterST said:
This kid is NOT going to be surprised or overpowered by some hard hitting 4.0. I guarantee he's seen pace that equals the logic-defying power of a player that plays for fun on the weekends.

Also, if they're THAT hard hitting and still 4.0s, they must be pretty inconsistent. The kid would just give them enough rope to hang themselves.

There's a 14 year old kid at my club that has had competitive matches with a guy who is a LEGIT 4.0 (has won 4.0 tourneys). The young player isn't even in the top 100 in our USTA section.

Sure, 14 is a lot different than 9. But going by the logic that 4.0s would beat the kid in the video, that would mean an unranked 14 year old could beat Australia's number one 9 year old. I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Any adult who can hit as hard as they can and have the balls go in consistently would be on the ***ing ATP tour.

Adults are stronger but that doen't necessarily mean they can hit harder than a 9 year old who is being groomed for professional tennis.

Claudius said:
This kid will bagel all of us here.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I concur.
 
LeeD said:
Can't compare this kid with any of the top pros now...when they were junior.
Little people cannot cover court, plain and simple.
I played and practiced with kids who WON pro tournaments the following year, so what would they be? At least 5.5's, right? They were my level when I was C (a winning C player). Of course, following year, I mostly went multiple rounds in A-Open-5.5 and ProQ
Click to expand...

he can't cover the court? did you watch the video? was he NOT covering the court? i really think you need to look at the ranking...either you underestimate your playing ability terribly (saying your a 4.0) or your just a internet-player who has probably never played tennis in your life. Watch any video of 4.0's and even 4.5's they hit the SAME way as this kid. sure, if there capable of hitting corner to corner EVERY shot with good depth and pace, the kid won't be able to touch them...but hey nobody probably would, and they wouldn't be ranked 4.5...more like 5.5's...
 
Ambivalent said:
Yeah, that's totally true. Disregard the fact that there's a major tournament in Dubai and Federer owns a home/trains there during the off season.
Click to expand...

1) A 500 a major tournament? Next you're going to tell me Tokyo is a major tournament and we all know how many Japanese are in the top 100, Kei Nishikori where are you?

2) Federer flies in his training partners, it's not like he's training with anyone who is actually from UAE
 
After having watched a 1/3rd of the video, considering 2/3rds of it was the same point slow motion twice (worst video production ever made)

He can't even hit a winner past another kid while being inside the service line, how is he suppose to hit one against an adult?

Not to mention these are a selection of shots, so they are his best points he played. Anyone can have highlight reels spread over a couple of matches
 
OKUSA said:
After having watched a 1/3rd of the video, considering 2/3rds of it was the same point slow motion twice (worst video production ever made)

He can't even hit a winner past another kid while being inside the service line, how is he suppose to hit one against an adult?

Not to mention these are a selection of shots, so they are his best points he played. Anyone can have highlight reels spread over a couple of matches
Click to expand...

Can we see your highlights and winners please?
 
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