What NTRP would you rate this hitting

oble

Hall of Fame
Kyrgios did a better job at copying Federer here :p (including dumping an easy 1hbh into the net :lol:):
https://youtu.be/7oC2zV_rn9s?t=23s

The serve video is just too far away from the camera plus poor lighting to see properly. The forehands look good but it's like watching a silhouette, although it does look like you can hit some solid level tennis. Am I also seeing some Federer mimicking in your forehands?
 
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shindemac

Hall of Fame
Is this a joke?! Why do people post vertical vids, super dark lighting, person is like 5 pixels tall? All I heard was the ball in the second vid! :confused: And then expect people to help them :? :neutral: :confused:
 

gregor.b

Professional
Some quality (and honest ) posts here.

Maybe have another crack (and then view it yourself if you can) and then you may get some decent responses here.

Cheers bud!
 

RDS001

Rookie
Kyrgios did a better job at copying Federer here :p (including dumping an easy 1hbh into the net :lol:):
https://youtu.be/7oC2zV_rn9s?t=23s

The serve video is just too far away from the camera plus poor lighting to see properly. The forehands look good but it's like watching a silhouette, although it does look like you can hit some solid level tennis. Am I also seeing some Federer mimicking in your forehands?

Well, since I started playing tennis 12 years ago, I loved feds forehand, so I learned his techniqe, straight arm(most of the time) and copyied it pretty well, but I use sw grip....my one handed backhand is an atempt of trying to copy almagro's backhand, but with more of an open stance, but with continental grip.

I will try to video my todays league match and post it here, so you guys will get a better view hopefully :)
 

Flatballs

Banned
Here is another video, hope this one is better :)
note that I was very lazy with my legs here :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0hdUkt81o
Nice form. Definitely channeling Federer. I'm not going to give you a ranking though, cos this comes down to results in actual competitive match play in my opinion, and by definition. Wall hitting and playing matches are two different things.

All I might suggest is play to your natural ability and strengths. Don't get too caught up in trying to copy a pro for the sake of it, when you might play more effectively just being yourself. :) Unless you get enjoyment out of doing so, which is perfectly ok. :)

Ps: Croatia - a beautiful country
 
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RDS001

Rookie
Nice form. Definitely channeling Federer. I'm not going to give you a ranking though, cos this comes down to results in actual competitive match play in my opinion.

All I might suggest is play to your natural ability and strengths. Don't get too caught up in trying to copy a pro for the sake of it, when you might play more effectively just being yourself. :) Unless you get enjoyment out of doing so, which is perfectly ok. :)

Ps: Croatia - a beautiful country
Thanks man, nowdays I'm not trying to copy any pro, when I was a kid I was crazy about Federer and his way of playing, so I learned that technique and it pretty much stayed unchanged till today,

From watching Matt Linn's videos, I would say that in U.S. i would get atleast a 5.0. ranking, especially because guys in U.S. play most of their league matches on hard courts, where I tend to play my best tennis, dominating with big serve and forehand :) on clay here in Croatia it is a little bit more challenging because your results depend alot on your physical shape, mostly because of the grueling rallys, it is hard to get any free points, even with big serve and huge ground game, alot of guys can neutralize that and make you play one more shot, and if you aren't playing regularly, despite the perfect technique you sometimes end up missing those and lose some matches you should've won
 

Flatballs

Banned
Thanks man, nowdays I'm not trying to copy any pro, when I was a kid I was crazy about Federer and his way of playing, so I learned that technique and it pretty much stayed unchanged till today,

From watching Matt Linn's videos, I would say that in U.S. i would get atleast a 5.0. ranking, especially because guys in U.S. play most of their league matches on hard courts, where I tend to play my best tennis, dominating with big serve and forehand :) on clay here in Croatia it is a little bit more challenging because your results depend alot on your physical shape, mostly because of the grueling rallys, it is hard to get any free points, even with big serve and huge ground game, alot of guys can neutralize that and make you play one more shot, and if you aren't playing regularly, despite the perfect technique you sometimes end up missing those and lose some matches you should've won
Do you actually play in a league that requires a ranking?
 

Flatballs

Banned
No I currently play recreational league
So you think you could match it in with 5.0 ranked players, but you dont even play in a compeititve, sanctioned league?

If you're that good, why don't you play in a sanctioned league? Why do you waste your time playing rec tennis?
 

RDS001

Rookie
So you think you could match it in with 5.0 ranked players, but you dont even play in a compeititve, sanctioned league?

If you're that good, why don't you play in a sanctioned league? Why do you waste your time playing rec tennis?

Because unfortunately we don't have sanctioned leagues here in Croatia, you can only play rec tennis leagues, and some itf veteran tournaments, but they cost too much for most rec players and I am under 30 years old so it is not even "legal" for me to play itf veteran tournaments
 

WildVolley

Legend
From watching Matt Linn's videos, I would say that in U.S. i would get at least a 5.0. ranking, especially because guys in U.S. play most of their league matches on hard courts, where I tend to play my best tennis, dominating with big serve and forehand :)
It is really hard to say from the video, but you're going to set people off by saying you're a 5.0, whether it is true or not.

Your strokes look smooth, your contact sounds good, and it is obvious you play a fair amount of tennis, but I'm not good enough to just see someone hit against a wall or hit a few rally strokes and necessarily know how they'd do in a competitive match.

At first I thought you were standing in the middle of a street hitting against a wall, but I hope that's a parking lot. Did the lady tell you to stop making noise at the end of that last video?:twisted:
 

RDS001

Rookie
It is really hard to say from the video, but you're going to set people off by saying you're a 5.0, whether it is true or not.

Your strokes look smooth, your contact sounds good, and it is obvious you play a fair amount of tennis, but I'm not good enough to just see someone hit against a wall or hit a few rally strokes and necessarily know how they'd do in a competitive match.

At first I thought you were standing in the middle of a street hitting against a wall, but I hope that's a parking lot. Did the lady tell you to stop making noise at the end of that last video?:twisted:

Yeah it's a parking lot now, used to be a school yard, lady said that they minded the noise, so I decidate to quit, it was too hot anyway, and I was just warming up for my afternoon league match :)

I don't mind guys saying that I'm not at that level, I know my game, and I've seen 5.0. videos on Youtube, I play tennis for 12 years now and there is absolutely no reason for me not to be able to play against a regular 5.0., of course it always depend on style of the oponnent, his experience in match play etc.
if you practiced tennis as a kid, and learned proper technique, 5.0. tennis is not that much of a challenge anyways
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
No doubt you are better than most of us who post here on TW forums.
But then, so is a high 4.0 level player.
At 4.5, you'd be the best guy on a school team for kids under 18.
At 4.5, you'd qualify to play tennis for most universities, although probably not singles in the top 5.
At 5.0, you'd already be as good as the TOP players for almost any university, and have no problems beeating any high school, or under 18 year old kid.
At around high 4.0, you'd have trouble finding player's to hit with, player's to practice with, who are your level or better. You cannot meet any at the tennis courts, so you'd have to arrange it berforehand, and most of THOSE players know EXACTLY their tennis rankings, because to get to that level, you'd, and they, would have played serious tennis for at least 4 years already, and have played with and against more than a hundred different players.
 

RDS001

Rookie
Today I played my league match, but it was very cloudy and windy, so it wasn't a good idea to film that match, I won 9:5 but it was a stupid match, basicly me trying to hit as many forehand topspin moonballs to the guys one hander, everything in order to get the ball in play since it was so windy, I almost felt sorry for the guy, because his flat strokes sailed long so often cause of wind and heavy topspin that was further helped by the wind

On Sunday I am playing friendly match against a friend, who is a very high level pusher, I assume it doesn't get any better than that, basicly he stands at a pusher limit, with that technique they don't get much better, especially on clay, so I will try to film that match and post it here on forum I guess it will be fun for you guys to see that kind of a match :)
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
We feel sorry you have to play a pusher.
And of course, we regret you had to play under strong wind conditions, both of which can bring out the worst in a tennis player.
 

RDS001

Rookie
We feel sorry you have to play a pusher.
And of course, we regret you had to play under strong wind conditions, both of which can bring out the worst in a tennis player.

yeah wind sucks, I don't mind it on the return of serve, and it actually suits my topspin game nicely, since the bounce gets curvy on clay, and even more unpredictable if the wind affects the ball, but it is easy to get frustrated, cause first serve percentage gets very low, and than you risk it with the kickers on 2nd serves cause of the wind blowing the high ball in all sort of directions, so yeah, you have to be way more focused, watch the ball all the time, your timing gets wrong sometimes so it is hard to get in the groove, and hit the ball clean
 

Coolio

Professional
At 4.5, you'd qualify to play tennis for most universities, although probably not singles in the top 5.
At 5.0, you'd already be as good as the TOP players for almost any university, and have no problems beeating any high school, or under 18 year old kid.
LeeD, this is very different to how most view it. Most people say you need to be 5.0 to qualify for most universites with the better players being 5.5 and the really great players being 6.0, who tend to mix college tennis with playing futures events when they can.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Very different?
Remember, I rated Matt Lin as a 4.5 level player, who USED to play at the 5.0 level. Little did I know he was practicing extensively the 3 months before we hit, and after his hit with AndreA.
Half a level can't be soooo very different.
And on our local 4.5 league team plays at No. 4 singles....a former No_ONE for UCBerkeley, a D-1 school. And he's only 42 or so years old.
 

Coolio

Professional
At 5.0, you'd already be as good as the TOP players for almost any university, and have no problems beeating any high school, or under 18 year old kid.
5.0 is not near as good as the top players for almost any university. How could 5.0's have no trouble beating U18 kids, when a lot of good U18 kids are as good as if not better than 5.0's themselves.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
5.0 JUNIORS usually lose to 5.0 men. Little experience is one of the keys, as you should know.
While 5.0 juniors can outrun and sometimes outhit 5.0 men, they can't deal with the varied game, the gamesmanship, and most are only ready to do battle against another topspinning baseliner opting to win through consistency and little else from the baseline.
You know this.
As a low level 4.0, ME, I have no trouble playing against high rated juniors, while lower rated seniors (but still rated above me), just crush me with a smirk and a consdescending smile.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
True, my experience is seen through the eyes of a 66 year old hobbled low 4.0 level player.
But, I've played against lots of top 10 NorCal rated juniors, both boys and girls, mostly doubles, where the versatility really shows.
Most juniors hate the net game, and while they can put away the volleys when given the chance, just flinch away when they are on the other end.
Most juniors insist on hitting topspin return of serves, which take longer to prep, go slower and higher over the net, and are susceptible to poaching.
Most juniors DON'T have a big first serve, so you can count on a steady diet of medium speed serves, which are easier to return low and CC.
And most juniors DON'T have the patience to play the low volley to the feet game, usually going for a winner off a 2hbh while digging it out from their shoetops.
A good senior 4.5 would destroy most 5.0 level juniors, just due to slices, volleys, and all court play.
 
OP has the best looking strokes i've seen here on the forum, i can't think of any technical improvements that could be made based on the videos. Whether hes good in matches or not, he has the strokes of a high 4.5 + and is probably better than 99% of us
 

mikeler

Moderator
True, my experience is seen through the eyes of a 66 year old hobbled low 4.0 level player.
But, I've played against lots of top 10 NorCal rated juniors, both boys and girls, mostly doubles, where the versatility really shows.
Most juniors hate the net game, and while they can put away the volleys when given the chance, just flinch away when they are on the other end.
Most juniors insist on hitting topspin return of serves, which take longer to prep, go slower and higher over the net, and are susceptible to poaching.
Most juniors DON'T have a big first serve, so you can count on a steady diet of medium speed serves, which are easier to return low and CC.
And most juniors DON'T have the patience to play the low volley to the feet game, usually going for a winner off a 2hbh while digging it out from their shoetops.
A good senior 4.5 would destroy most 5.0 level juniors, just due to slices, volleys, and all court play.
Not true. The difference in levels is too great. The USTA states that a +0.5 NTRP difference should result in a 6-0, 6-0 score for the 5.0, not for the 4.5. The ratings are independent of age.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Very different?
Remember, I rated Matt Lin as a 4.5 level player, who USED to play at the 5.0 level. Little did I know he was practicing extensively the 3 months before we hit, and after his hit with AndreA.
Half a level can't be soooo very different.
And on our local 4.5 league team plays at No. 4 singles....a former No_ONE for UCBerkeley, a D-1 school. And he's only 42 or so years old.
There's always something.

Hey wow, a good tennis player practices a lot - stunner.

Got to let that match go and the excuses with it. There is no way you would sniff beating Linn or even be playing near his level.
 

Flatballs

Banned
Not true. The difference in levels is too great. The USTA states that a +0.5 NTRP difference should result in a 6-0, 6-0 score for the 5.0, not for the 4.5. The ratings are independent of age.
Seriously, where does this LeeD guy dream up this stuff?
 

RDS001

Rookie
OP has the best looking strokes i've seen here on the forum, i can't think of any technical improvements that could be made based on the videos. Whether hes good in matches or not, he has the strokes of a high 4.5 + and is probably better than 99% of us
thanks man :)) there always are technical improvements that can be made, but at some point you just have to accept what you got and make the best out of it, because when you stop training full time with coach, changing your technique on your own is basicly pointless, you don't have the feedback weather you really improved something or not, and you don't have enough time on court to do it correctly so it is better to just focus on match play as you get older and sort of more recreational player, and from there on you use your experience to play better than other players who maybe unfortunately didn't had a chance to start playing tennis at a younger age and learned a proper technique....but I always marvel at the effort those kind of players put into their matches, they really give their best and that is really something to see sometimes on courts.

For instance, yesterday I watched practice match between two Futures players, and both of them were so uninterested in their practice, that I felt sorry for the chance they got to play at such a high level, I mean guys can play some crazy level of tennis and sometimes they just act like idiots and play like crap, just because they don't have the desire to play like some of the rec players do :)
 

RDS001

Rookie
There's always something.

Hey wow, a good tennis player practices a lot - stunner.

Got to let that match go and the excuses with it. There is no way you would sniff beating Linn or even be playing near his level.

I watched Leeds match against Linn, Leed really didn't play his best there unfortunately, made alot of double faults, but Linn also didn't show nothing there, especially if he trained like crazy 3 months leading into that match....his first serve percentage is way too low for a 5.0., and he was troubled by Leeds serve to his backhand so that indicates me that if Leed was more focused on his serve the result would've been much better for him....Linn has alot to improve in his game, his backhand is way too stiff, he never uses the slice, he is too predictable with his play, and guys can easly figure him out, if he serves well he can be dangeours, but those 2nd serves are suspectible to big hitters, so I think that even a good U.S. rated 4.5. hard hitter can trouble Linn alot, just my humble opinion and observation
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
I watched Leeds match against Linn, Leed really didn't play his best there unfortunately, made alot of double faults, but Linn also didn't show nothing there, especially if he trained like crazy 3 months leading into that match....his first serve percentage is way too low for a 5.0., and he was troubled by Leeds serve to his backhand so that indicates me that if Leed was more focused on his serve the result would've been much better for him....Linn has alot to improve in his game, his backhand is way too stiff, he never uses the slice, he is too predictable with his play, and guys can easly figure him out, if he serves well he can be dangeours, but those 2nd serves are suspectible to big hitters, so I think that even a good U.S. rated 4.5. hard hitter can trouble Linn alot, just my humble opinion and observation
If you look at his channel, there is a recent match of him playing against another 4.5/5.0 rated guy. It was posted here but quickly deleted since he is banned? I think u get a much better look at his game when he plays someone closer to his skill level. Unless he hits the books hard or gets distracted by a girl, I don't think a 4.5 has a chance against him.
 

RDS001

Rookie
If you look at his channel, there is a recent match of him playing against another 4.5/5.0 rated guy. It was posted here but quickly deleted since he is banned? I think u get a much better look at his game when he plays someone closer to his skill level. Unless he hits the books hard or gets distracted by a girl, I don't think a 4.5 has a chance against him.

Yeah I saw some of that match, I must admit it was alot better level, but like I said, he is troubled by the slice here to, he tries to arm those too much and they end up into the net, again not that much of a first serve percentage, made quite some number of unforced erros off his forehand, his backhand was more solid in that regard....the thing is that his opponent left too much court opened by constant unnecesary running around his backhand, it was just pointless cause his forehand wasn't doing the damage it was supposed to and he is not that fast to get there on time to hit perfect inside out or inside in fh, that's why the guy made alot of uf errors with his fh, and most of his fhs ended up in the middle of the court, basicly he gave Linn the match with that, if he was smarter and used his slice to set up that big forehand and get some weaker balls he could've crushed Linn, but that's the problem with american style of play, they seem afraid of their backhands and lose court positioning too much with constant search for the forehand...
I can't say that Linn is not a good player, he is, and he probbably deserves a 5.0. rating, but I also see alot of flukes in his game, which can be exploated if played the right way, he certainly isn't unbeatable, I think his game is much more suited to clay courts than hard courts...
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
Yeah I saw some of that match, I must admit it was alot better level, but like I said, he is troubled by the slice here to, he tries to arm those too much and they end up into the net, again not that much of a first serve percentage, made quite some number of unforced erros off his forehand, his backhand was more solid in that regard....the thing is that his opponent left too much court opened by constant unnecesary running around his backhand, it was just pointless cause his forehand wasn't doing the damage it was supposed to and he is not that fast to get there on time to hit perfect inside out or inside in fh, that's why the guy made alot of uf errors with his fh, and most of his fhs ended up in the middle of the court, basicly he gave Linn the match with that, if he was smarter and used his slice to set up that big forehand and get some weaker balls he could've crushed Linn, but that's the problem with american style of play, they seem afraid of their backhands and lose court positioning too much with constant search for the forehand...
I can't say that Linn is not a good player, he is, and he probbably deserves a 5.0. rating, but I also see alot of flukes in his game, which can be exploated if played the right way, he certainly isn't unbeatable, I think his game is much more suited to clay courts than hard courts...
That is the American style of play. Strong forehand. Weak backhand. Strong serve. Poor movement. No strategy.

I already did an analysis in the deleted thread. But yeah, his groundstroke game was weaker than matt's. I got the feeling he was able to hold serve against matt.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah I saw some of that match, I must admit it was alot better level, but like I said, he is troubled by the slice here to, he tries to arm those too much and they end up into the net, again not that much of a first serve percentage, made quite some number of unforced erros off his forehand, his backhand was more solid in that regard....the thing is that his opponent left too much court opened by constant unnecesary running around his backhand, it was just pointless cause his forehand wasn't doing the damage it was supposed to and he is not that fast to get there on time to hit perfect inside out or inside in fh, that's why the guy made alot of uf errors with his fh, and most of his fhs ended up in the middle of the court, basicly he gave Linn the match with that, if he was smarter and used his slice to set up that big forehand and get some weaker balls he could've crushed Linn, but that's the problem with american style of play, they seem afraid of their backhands and lose court positioning too much with constant search for the forehand...
I can't say that Linn is not a good player, he is, and he probbably deserves a 5.0. rating, but I also see alot of flukes in his game, which can be exploated if played the right way, he certainly isn't unbeatable, I think his game is much more suited to clay courts than hard courts...
Matt is studying Computer Science at a top school and it's a pretty rough major if you're not familiar with it.
 

navigator

Hall of Fame
From watching Matt Linn's videos, I would say that in U.S. i would get at least a 5.0. ranking,
A couple of well-known biases at work here:

(1) Self-ratings are almost always inflated (almost all humans think they're better at most things than they actually are); and
(2) Most folks under-rate the actual skill level of those on video (who are actually playing matches).

Further, videos of folks hitting (as opposed to playing matches), playing practice matches (that is, non-sanctioned matches), and hitting against backboards are almost worthless in assessing that player's level. At the end of the day, sanctioned matches are, by far, the best determinant of one's level.

So, we have a poor quality backboard video of a player that self rates at 5.0 because that's the level he feels another guy is in another video. And I presume you don't have any junior or adult ranking information or you would've provided it... that suggests to me that you *might* play at a 4.5-ish level.

But here's the really good news: it's completely meaningless speculation. Play tournaments to get a better idea of where you stand - because virtually nothing you've provided thus far is strongly indicative of any particular level.
 

RDS001

Rookie
A couple of well-known biases at work here:

(1) Self-ratings are almost always inflated (almost all humans think they're better at most things than they actually are); and
(2) Most folks under-rate the actual skill level of those on video (who are actually playing matches).

Further, videos of folks hitting (as opposed to playing matches), playing practice matches (that is, non-sanctioned matches), and hitting against backboards are almost worthless in assessing that player's level. At the end of the day, sanctioned matches are, by far, the best determinant of one's level.

So, we have a poor quality backboard video of a player that self rates at 5.0 because that's the level he feels another guy is in another video. And I presume you don't have any junior or adult ranking information or you would've provided it... that suggests to me that you *might* play at a 4.5-ish level.

But here's the really good news: it's completely meaningless speculation. Play tournaments to get a better idea of where you stand - because virtually nothing you've provided thus far is strongly indicative of any particular level.

Thanks for the feedback, I completely agree with you that real match play is what counts, I was just speculating about my rating according to U.S. rating system that's all....
I'll try and post my singles match tomorrow morning, today I played against my roomate, who is in my opinion around 3,5 NTRP or so, it was such a fun match, he gave his all, ran like crazy on court, and I kept it interesting by not making too much with my shots, the scoreline was 6:0 6:1 6:1, the funniest thing is how he called me to play him, we were watching finals of Croatian tennnis league, where Damir Dzumhur actually plays for Osijek Tennis Club, and my roomate watched that high level of play and got pumped up to beat me, so it was just hillarious on court today with him, but I must say he played his best match so far, the lighting was too poor so I couldn't tape that match unfortunately :(
 

RDS001

Rookie
Matt is studying Computer Science at a top school and it's a pretty rough major if you're not familiar with it.
I don't understand what does that have to do with his level of tennis, it can only help him if he studies at a college that has it's own tennis courts at which he can play for free right?
 
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