What NTRP would you rate this hitting

RDS001 said:
Yesterday I practiced a bit, and played a practice set against a 5.0. player who gets coached 3 times a week, won that one 6:1, he is too much of a headcase, goes for each shot like it's the last, and makes a ton of errors, so I had no problem getting that win, my serve worked magic, hitting 3 aces and 4 service winners, was struggeling on the return of serve cause he hits them hard too, but luckly for me his footwork is terrible, so sliced backhands chopped his legs completely and setted some monster forehands for me :)
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That doesn't make any sense.
Footwork = terrible?
Slices hurt him?
Headcase?
Errors?

What kind of 5.0 player is this. 5.0 you don't have a weakness, the only thing that sets you apart from other players your level is either physical or 1/2 important points. They should be able to hold serve easily no matter what player they're against. its pretty dang hard to break serve even at 4.5 level.
 
Flatballs said:
Um, and you say my statements are ironic?....lol
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Uh, yes. You complain about others criticizing the OP and yet you have two comments in this thread criticizing the OP. Can you understand that?

And the funniest part is, the post your complaining about of mine - I'm quoting your own words.
 
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MarinaHighTennis said:
That doesn't make any sense.
Footwork = terrible?
Slices hurt him?
Headcase?
Errors?

What kind of 5.0 player is this. 5.0 you don't have a weakness, the only thing that sets you apart from other players your level is either physical or 1/2 important points. They should be able to hold serve easily no matter what player they're against. its pretty dang hard to break serve even at 4.5 level.
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Well the kind of 5.0. player who has Futures level strokes, but is not mentally nowhere near that level, he meltsdown under pressure but when he is on he is unplayable :)
We are talking clay court tennis here, it is totally different game than hard court 5.0. game in America, here anyone can return your serve, people actually use their brain when playing tennis here on clay, so no matter how good your strokes are you have to expect one more ball getting back at you, and that is the problem you american guys don't understand when rating Europe people tennis, we have to play patient tennis here, using whole court, many different shots to open up the court, it is not as easy to win a point with just serve and couple of big fhs here :)
 
RDS001 said:
Yesterday I practiced a bit, and played a practice set against a 5.0. player who gets coached 3 times a week, won that one 6:1, he is too much of a headcase, goes for each shot like it's the last, and makes a ton of errors, so I had no problem getting that win
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How do you manage to have US NTRP rating system in Croatia.

This thread is pure fail (and that's not only the lame videos).
 
RDS001 said:
Well the kind of 5.0. player who has Futures level strokes, but is not mentally nowhere near that level, he meltsdown under pressure but when he is on he is unplayable :)
We are talking clay court tennis here, it is totally different game than hard court 5.0. game in America, here anyone can return your serve, people actually use their brain when playing tennis here on clay, so no matter how good your strokes are you have to expect one more ball getting back at you, and that is the problem you american guys don't understand when rating Europe people tennis, we have to play patient tennis here, using whole court, many different shots to open up the court, it is not as easy to win a point with just serve and couple of big fhs here :)
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Everybody grinds here.
 
MarinaHighTennis said:
That doesn't make any sense.
Footwork = terrible?
Slices hurt him?
Headcase?
Errors?

What kind of 5.0 player is this. 5.0 you don't have a weakness, the only thing that sets you apart from other players your level is either physical or 1/2 important points. They should be able to hold serve easily no matter what player they're against. its pretty dang hard to break serve even at 4.5 level.
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5.0 on a scale of 0 to 50 it would seem.
 
RDS001 said:
Well the kind of 5.0. player who has Futures level strokes, but is not mentally nowhere near that level, he meltsdown under pressure but when he is on he is unplayable :)
We are talking clay court tennis here, it is totally different game than hard court 5.0. game in America, here anyone can return your serve, people actually use their brain when playing tennis here on clay, so no matter how good your strokes are you have to expect one more ball getting back at you, and that is the problem you american guys don't understand when rating Europe people tennis, we have to play patient tennis here, using whole court, many different shots to open up the court, it is not as easy to win a point with just serve and couple of big fhs here :)
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Marina does have some familiarity with how the highest level players hit.
 
movdqa said:
Marina does have some familiarity with how the highest level players hit.
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Not really. I think that Djokovic guy is 5.5 at best.

RDS001, look at the video MarinaHigh posted of some match play. I don't know what sort of mount he's using on the fence, but that's the camera perspective that will allow someone to actually see what you're doing. I sometimes use a camera on a tripod, but I don't feel that it is a safe setup because one good ball strike could knock the tripod over and potentially break the camera.
 
WildVolley said:
Not really. I think that Djokovic guy is 5.5 at best.

RDS001, look at the video MarinaHigh posted of some match play. I don't know what sort of mount he's using on the fence, but that's the camera perspective that will allow someone to actually see what you're doing. I sometimes use a camera on a tripod, but I don't feel that it is a safe setup because one good ball strike could knock the tripod over and potentially break the camera.
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I went searching for the Djokovic - MarinaHigh video but couldn't find it. Anyone have a link? I haven't seen it for a while.
 
movdqa said:
Marina does have some familiarity with how the highest level players hit.
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yes he does, he does a good job of retrieving peoples balls back deep into the court, but without being able to finish points with his own pace I'm affraid there are way too many limitations to his game :)
 
RDS001 said:
yes he does, he does a good job of retrieving peoples balls back deep into the court, but without being able to finish points with his own pace I'm affraid there are way too many limitations to his game :)
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You may have missed the video, but he's also actually hit with a guy that's supposed to be fairly good.

Some Serbian dude named Djokovic. I still maintain Djokovic's only a 5.5 based on the video, but some claim he's actually the world's #1 rated player.:twisted:
 
RDS001 said:
it is called self rating, judged by watching videos of US. NTRP rated players, and compairing your own level to their :)
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I've said this many times in the past and no one's ever had an issue with it...

The accuracy in determining one's skill level (from worst to best):

(1) Self-rating: almost, but not completely, worthless. Humans tend to have a much higher opinion of their abilities than objective evidence proves. I take someone's self-rating and subtract a 1/2 NTRP point at a minimum.
(2) Video: a bit better than worthless, but not particularly valuable. As we've seen here many, many times, TT posters are notoriously bad at judging a player's NTRP level from watching video. Video lies.
(3) Rating by a certified teaching pro: getting better - much better than (1) and (2) above, but... doesn't adjust for match play, which is totally different than hitting balls around the court.
(4) Verifiable results from sanctioned tournaments: the gold standard. Everything else falls well short by varying degrees.

If you think you can guess your NTRP based on some combination of watching videos and playing practice matches against players without a rating (or ranking) then your actual rating is probably well below where you think it is, because any good player knows your methodology is deeply flawed and a fool's errand.

I don't understand why people post videos and expect anyone to have meaningful insights regarding their "level." It's totally irrelevant. If finding out your level - or confirming it for yourself - is important to you... play sanctioned tournaments. Or just play for the fun of it and accept that you don't have a verifiable level.
 
That guy, Brian Su, is so sneaky good. Looks like he's not doing much but the guy hits all the right shots and makes the opponent uncomfortable. Not sure why he uses a 2 handle racket when he hits with 1hbh???
 
mad dog1 said:
In other words you think you would beat those guys easily.
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get-to-the-point.png
 
Only on this forum, could I guy post a video of him hitting a wall and then ask people to judge their tennis. This is not Golf, you do not need beautiful technical strokes to be good. Tennis is competition, all in the mind.
 
RDS001 said:
or am I gonna have to post a full video of match played against 5.0. or better opponent?
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You're going to have to post a video against a supposed 5.0 (even though no such thing exists in your country) as hitting against a wall and posting another video where the camera is pointing at the sky doesn't show anything.
 
I'll be gentle. OP, Brian Su and Andy Chang are 5.5 players. Most likely they would crush you in a match. Prove me wrong by posting a match video of you against a player your level with a decent camera angle.
 
Topspin Shot said:
I'll be gentle. OP, Brian Su and Andy Chang are 5.5 players. Most likely they would crush you in a match. Prove me wrong by posting a match video of you against a player your level with a decent camera angle.
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I had the feeling that this was the case.

Their movement, speed and smoothness of their strokes gave me the feeling that they were just fooling around out there.
 
RDS001 said:
yes that is true, I would beat both of them easly from what I saw here :)
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Proving once again the futility of deriving NTRP ratings from video... Bryan Su and Andy Chang are both teaching pros in the LA area and both have won multiple 5.5 events in Southern California over the last many years. Absent any verifiable ranking information as an adult or junior - and your backboard video notwithstanding, of course - any sentient being would be forced to conclude that they would likely decimate you... easily. If you honestly believe that these guys are 4.0 players - verifiably not even in the ballpark - then you have some navel-gazing ahead of you regarding your own level. I truly love these threads... the self-delusion is something to behold...
 
Topspin Shot said:
I'll be gentle. OP, Brian Su and Andy Chang are 5.5 players. Most likely they would crush you in a match. Prove me wrong by posting a match video of you against a player your level with a decent camera angle.
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But OP's strokes hitting against a wall looks better.
 
To be fair, the above video of Brian and Andy is not a typical 5.5 match in intensity in my experience. It also goes to show that it's not always straightforward to judge even by a match video. So the OP should learn the absurdity of asking for the level with a wall and leisurely match videos. Maybe you can try to show the aesthetic of your technique and ask for critique and opinions.
 
Always hilarious when a tennis player who has NO IDEA of his skill level looks at a video and declares himself superior.
How does a tennis player get to his skill level without ever knowing the skill levels of his opponents?
Does he play in a vacuum? Is he "The Natural"? Did he come from outer space?
 
LeeD said:
Always hilarious when a tennis player who has NO IDEA of his skill level looks at a video and declares himself superior.
How does a tennis player get to his skill level without ever knowing the skill levels of his opponents?
Does he play in a vacuum? Is he "The Natural"? Did he come from outer space?
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It's a 5.0 backboard.

You should get an Avatar. It took me a while to realize that this is you.
 
mad dog1 said:
OP, what level would you rate the players in this video?

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But this was a trap video. Brian Su has an ugly game. I know of another 5.5 (former Division 1 singles player on big name team) who had ugly strokes. When he played on a high school team, you wouldn't think much of him in the warm up and then he'd just destroy the other player because he was too solid and placed the ball well. I wish I could play as well as that guy, but I'm glad my strokes don't look like his.

In the past, someone else also posted a short clip of multi-surface USTA national champion playing a defensive point and bunting the ball back over the net. Again people seriously under-rated the player (I think he was an ex-6.5 who had aged into playing USTA open tournaments) while people were saying things like 3.5 or 4.0.

The OP still hasn't posted a decent video of his hitting or match play so the whole discussion is moot.
 
LeeD said:
If I knew how to post an avatar, I'd have the technology to film by bad tennis too...
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Sir, allow me to be of service:
1. Go to the internet and find a picture you like.
2. Right-click on it and choose "Save Image As.."
3. Save it under whatever name you want in your Download folder.
4. Come back to TTW.
5. With the mouse cursor, hover over your name in the upper right part of the page. This will bring up a drop-down list.
6. In the left column, second from the bottom is "Avatar." Click on it.
7. Click "Browse" in the Upload Avatar section.
8. Choose the pic from your download folder.
9. Continue GOATing on TTW.
 
WildVolley said:
But this was a trap video. Brian Su has an ugly game. I know of another 5.5 (former Division 1 singles player on big name team) who had ugly strokes. When he played on a high school team, you wouldn't think much of him in the warm up and then he'd just destroy the other player because he was too solid and placed the ball well. I wish I could play as well as that guy, but I'm glad my strokes don't look like his.

In the past, someone else also posted a short clip of multi-surface USTA national champion playing a defensive point and bunting the ball back over the net. Again people seriously under-rated the player (I think he was an ex-6.5 who had aged into playing USTA open tournaments) while people were saying things like 3.5 or 4.0.

The OP still hasn't posted a decent video of his hitting or match play so the whole discussion is moot.
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it wasn't intended to be a video trap. had i posted a video of TonLars, OP would likely have also given him a 4.0 rating. after all, OP saw Matt Lin's videos and rated him 4.0 as well.
 
If you've played or watched a lot of matches, which you'd have to to get to 4.0, then you'd have seen a lot of players that may have an ugly game but still win. You have to think about where they are hitting the ball, how fast they're hitting it, is the spin going to bother you, how fast can they move around the court - a lot of stuff that isn't necessarily to do with how well you hit the ball.
 
mad dog1 said:
it wasn't intended to be a video trap. had i posted a video of TonLars, OP would likely have also given him a 4.0 rating. after all, OP saw Matt Lin's videos and rated him 4.0 as well.
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I guess the advantage of the video is that it isn't obvious what level the players are at, as compared to a D1 video in which people might recognize the names of the schools.

I doubt the OP has properly guessed his own level. I'm still waiting for a decent video to see how he actually plays.
 
mad dog1 said:
it wasn't intended to be a video trap. had i posted a video of TonLars, OP would likely have also given him a 4.0 rating. after all, OP saw Matt Lin's videos and rated him 4.0 as well.
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In all fairness, I would have underestimated Su and Chang from that video. Though I would have said sonething like 5.0, not 4.0.
 
Topspin Shot said:
In all fairness, I would have underestimated Su and Chang from that video. Though I would have said sonething like 5.0, not 4.0.
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i can certainly agree with you because it's not easy to see the diiference between 5.0 and 5.5. however it's not hard to see the difference between 4.0 and 5.0+. :)
 
These "What NTRP rating am I?" threads and debates are just ridiculous. Self ratings mean nothing. Zero. Zip. It's very simple, if you play in leagues or tournaments and win about 50% at any given level, then you are that level. If you lose most matches at a certain level, then you are bumped down. If you win most matches at a certain level, then you are bumped up.

The Matt Lin thing has been debated at length. The TRUTH is, he has never played ANY leagues or tournaments to be rated, and he doesn't play for a college team. "Hitting with guys" means nothing. His claim that his junior record/ranking somehow translates into being a 5.0 as he claimed, is BS because his junior schedule was fluff - all small local tournaments with little to no sectional, regional, or national play to speak of. What's more, his highest ranking was when he was in the 12s! So, the "Matt Lin benchmark" is bogus.

So let's stop estimating NTRP from a video, especially one that doesn't even show a match or a hitting partner. If you want to know what you're rated, join a league or enter a few tournaments and find out.
 
navigator said:
Proving once again the futility of deriving NTRP ratings from video... Bryan Su and Andy Chang are both teaching pros in the LA area and both have won multiple 5.5 events in Southern California over the last many years. Absent any verifiable ranking information as an adult or junior - and your backboard video notwithstanding, of course - any sentient being would be forced to conclude that they would likely decimate you... easily. If you honestly believe that these guys are 4.0 players - verifiably not even in the ballpark - then you have some navel-gazing ahead of you regarding your own level. I truly love these threads... the self-delusion is something to behold...
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Thank you! Looks on video are meaningless. Results = rating. A quick search is all it takes: 5.0, 5.5 and Open wins. Mr. Lin may look decent, but he has none of the results that these guys have.
 
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