What player beat his two main rivals in all Slams?

Razer said:
There are 3 types of Tennis fans associated with Djokovic

Type 1 : People who think he is better than Federer and Nadal, this group is in minority. You guys are loud but you are not many in number.

Type 2 : People who know he is not better than Federer but we respect "destiny" because we understand it was Djokovic's destiny to emerge with more slams than Federer. It is not something we like but we respect destiny/god's will.

Type 3 : People who know he is not better and people who are bothered as well by the fact that he has better stats now. They dont like him, they find him bad etc ...they dont respect God's will / destiny at all.

I am in Type 2, I dont dislike Djokovic, I might dislike his fans a bit because I find them naive and annoying, but Djokovic is not so bad. His game could be boring but his personality is interesting, he creates Drama and that is fun to watch too.
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Type 1 is not a minority. In fact, in a three-way poll, Djokovic should win. Maybe not in TW, but in a wider audience.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
To ask him to apologize shows the complete lunacy of those people. excuse for what exactly? They even made it sound that he was running around discrediting Serena's achievements when those guys were the ones coming to him and asking him. Mac was way to lenient on those clowns, if I were him I would have never let this idiotic reporter off the hook when he asked him where he would place Serena. He tried to brush it away with saying he is not an expert on tennis, I would have told him "then why are you opening your dumbass mouth in the first place on topics you are an acknowledged ignorant on"?

Anywho, Serena also backflipped on her Murray statement later on. As for Fed: him backing down when he was asked the same question few weeks later was completely lame.
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John McEnroe still wanted to work in the media. He didn't want to end up like Eric Bristow after November 2016 (i.e. sacked for controversial public comments, despite nearly 23 years of punditry). Bristow always spoke his truth, and it often got him into hot water.
 
SonnyT said:
Type 1 is not a minority. In fact, in a three-way poll, Djokovic should win. Maybe not in TW, but in a wider audience.
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And the actual wider audience are not those nerds voting in those polls, the real wide audience are the people worldwide, most of them are Fedal fans and ,many of them dont take part in these little polls.
 
ghostofMecir said:
You don't think that somebody playing with an antiquated stroke and an antiquated racket technology as the game changed drastically from the time he was a junior matters?

It becomes more and more apparent which posters here know anything at all about the game.
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Please teach me about the game…
It may matter, however, that is a part of the player as complete. You can’t say Federer did not achieve what ND did or Rafa because of his 90 sq in frame and older technique so let’s give him bonus points for the achievements he got. It does not work that way…
And in reality, they all adjusted their equipment and style to the more modern game. RF just could not adjust everything to overcome the other two.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
I haven't paid attention to who your favourite player ever is but among the B3 it's clearly Djokovic and you being a Federer (and Nadal) detractor in line with that is not surprising.


Rather, you interpret what data is available in ways you like that support your opinions and so do the 'experts' available for us to listen to (if they use data at all, often it's vibes).



Achievement numbers are there, available for everyone to look at. Your point? You weren't just reciting achievements here but stating your opinion on competition and level of play. Opinions on competition and level of play are exactly why/how some reject Djokovic as goat as they do not see his level and competition as superior.
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My favorite of the big 3+1 is actually that +1 = Andy Murray. But if I had to choose between the three, yes, Rafa and RF would be my less favorites.

None of what I said above are based on my subjective opinion - pure statistical (numbers) and expert feedback. And that is that ND is undisputed best and most achieved in history of our sport at this moment. In the era of the big three, plus AM, SW and a few other greats, this is not even up to discussion anywhere else but here, with the RF and Rafa fans denying it AFTER claiming a clear “winner” before ND crossed that 20 and then 22 mark. Then we had the FO win without beating Rafa, but then he beat him twice…
Then we had missing OG. He got that too…
 
dr325i said:
Please teach me about the game…
It may matter, however, that is a part of the player as complete. You can’t say Federer did not achieve what ND did or Rafa because of his 90 sq in frame and older technique so let’s give him bonus points for the achievements he got. It does not work that way…
And in reality, they all adjusted their equipment and style to the more modern game. RF just could not adjust everything to overcome the other two.
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You cannot "adjust" from a one handed back hand to a two handed back hand. You cannot change your racket, very drastically from what you learned to play as a junior when you gain muscle memory.

It's not about bonus points – your first post was about how he stopped winning when these other two players started winning, but there's much more than that. It is an absolutely unique situation in the history of the game, and even then he still wind up winning more points against the other two than they did against him even with every single possible disadvantage.
 
ghostofMecir said:
You cannot "adjust" from a one handed back hand to a two handed back hand. You cannot change your racket, very drastically from what you learned to play as a junior when you gain muscle memory.
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Mats Wilander had a two-handed backhand, but in 1987-1988 slowly created a one-handed slice backhand for himself in addition to his usual two-handed backhand. This became vital to him winning the 1988 US Open title.
 
ghostofMecir said:
You cannot "adjust" from a one handed back hand to a two handed back hand. You cannot change your racket, very drastically from what you learned to play as a junior when you gain muscle memory.

It's not about bonus points – your first post was about how he stopped winning when these other two players started winning, but there's much more than that. It is an absolutely unique situation in the history of the game, and even then he still wind up winning more points against the other two than they did against him even with every single possible disadvantage.
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ND had a very different serve till about 2010 and then changed again. ND FH was different before…2015 or so…so yes, successful adjustments are possible.
One handed BH does not necessarily disadvantage him, and in reality, was not the weakness easily exploited. Nadal always approached it from that angle, ND did not…

I agree, going from 1HBH to 2HbH would have been a dramatic change, probably not a success…

He stopped winning against ND once Novak (late bloomer) figured things out and made above mentioned changes. He was never ahead of Rafa, and caught up a little bit at the end when Rafa was totally broken.

Can you please share the statistics (actual data) that RF won more points vs Rafa and vs Novak from 2011-2022. I find it theoretically impossible that he has won more points vs ND 2011-2022 in the H2H score of 10:22!! Thank you

To add:
In their legendary rivalry, Roger Federer won slightly more total points against Novak Djokovic, with approximately 4729 points to Djokovic's 4695 points,

This includes 2006-2011 period when RF had the dominance. There is absolutely NO way that post 2011 RF won more points if overall difference is 34 points in RF favor over ALL matches!
 
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Novak Djokovic has 24 grand slams. He achieved this by beating the players in front of him. Everything else was not a choice made by him. Say what you will, but no one has accomplished more in tennis than Novak Djokovic. Not Roger, not Rafa. I’m not a Novak stan, I’m a general big 3 enjoyer. Just look at the numbers.
 
dr325i said:
ND had a very different serve till about 2010 and then changed again. ND FH was different before…2015 or so…so yes, successful adjustments are possible.
One handed BH does not necessarily disadvantage him, and in reality, was not the weakness easily exploited. Nadal always approached it from that angle, ND did not…

I agree, going from 1HBH to 2HbH would have been a dramatic change, probably not a success…

He stopped winning against ND once Novak (late bloomer) figured things out and made above mentioned changes. He was never ahead of Rafa, and caught up a little bit at the end when Rafa was totally broken.

Can you please share the statistics (actual data) that RF won more points vs Rafa and vs Novak from 2011-2022. I find it theoretically impossible that he has won more points vs ND 2011-2022 in the H2H score of 10:22!! Thank you

To add:
In their legendary rivalry, Roger Federer won slightly more total points against Novak Djokovic, with approximately 4729 points to Djokovic's 4695 points,

This includes 2006-2011 period when RF had the dominance. There is absolutely NO way that post 2011 RF won more points if overall difference is 34 points in RF favor over ALL matches!
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I don't mean to be offensive, but the comments you make make it clear that you have never played the sport at all and don't know the first thing about it if you're talking about some of the things you are, so I think I'll end the discussion here.
 
ghostofMecir said:
I don't mean to be offensive, but the comments you make make it clear that you have never played the sport at all and don't know the first thing about it if you're talking about some of the things you are, so I think I'll end the discussion here.
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no clue how you got to legend if you actually believe this LOL

He’s one of the few on this forum that we all know actually plays every week.
 
Sudacafan said:
Fedal fans are already in the Former Pro forum, only Djokovic fans want to pull them back here.
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Wait for Novak retirement . People and fans will forget them in hurry and shift their attention to SINNER ALCARAZ .
Surely Roger rafa fans are slowing down and it is only Novak fans who tries to provoke Fedal fans .
 
gamelovergold said:
Wait for Novak retirement . People and fans will forget them in hurry and shift their attention to SINNER ALCARAZ .
Surely Roger rafa fans are slowing down and it is only Novak fans who tries to provoke Fedal fans .
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honestly, i’m excited to move past the big 3 and the goat debate. it got old 10 yrs ago.
 
Wins over other Big3s by Slam:

AO: Djokovic 6 > Nadal 3 > Federer 2
RG: Nadal 14 > Djokovic 3 > Federer 1
WI: Djokovic 5 > Federer 4 > Nadal 1
UO: Djokovic 4 > Federer 3 > Nadal 2

Djokovic has the most wins at 3/4 Slams and 3+ wins at all Slams.
 
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Now, now Michael, it is the Christmas season.

Why do you think Federer said that Nadal was more of a defensive player and Djokovic an offensive player if Nole is so boring? Hmmm?
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Nadal's defense is a thing of absolute beauty one should say.

I9lD0q.gif
 
dr325i said:
Federer first 8 slams were breeze until Rafa showed up, then Novak matured end of 2010 and all was over. Not because he got old but because he could not compete. If Rafa and ND were not there, RF would have had 35 slams today.
RF fans always pull the age/weak era arguments to make them feel better. The reality is completely different.
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After 2010 Fed started losing primarily to the field, not Fedal. At his best slam Wimbledon, he lost to Berdych, Tsonga and Stakhovsky 2010-2013.

Either the whole field suddenly improved overnight in 2010, or Roger declined. I understand why you want to believe the "Nole made him weak" narrative, but it doesnt make it true. Federer was 4-1 vs Nole in 2010, but lost more than ever to the field.

For Rogers haters its impossible to grasp the idea that his level of play wasnt the same from 2003-2019, but they are very clear about Novaks peaks, injuries and slumps.
 
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junkieballer said:
Federer never beat peak 2013-23 Djokovic (19 Slams won)
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Oh, how shocking that a 32y old player didnt beat a 6y younger ATG, never happened before in tennis history.
Oh wait...

Btw, i guess you expect Medvedev to start beating Sincaraz in 3 years, when he is 32? Poor Zverev has to wait another 5 years, as he is only 27, still in his youth.
 
Jonas78 said:
Oh, how shocking that a 32y old player didnt beat a 6y younger ATG, never happened before in tennis history.
Oh wait...

Btw, i guess you expect Medvedev to start beating Sincaraz in 3 years, when he is 32? Poor Zverev has to wait another 5 years, as he is only 27, still in his youth.
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the fact is Federer in what you call his prime didn't beat great opponents. You can't choose your opponents, but peaking against great opponents is greater than peaking against non-great opponents.

Slam wins over the top ranked opponent (#1, or #2 if you're #1):

AO: Djokovic 4, Nadal 1, Federer 0
RG: Nadal 9, Djokovic 2, Federer 0
WI: Federer 5, Djokovic 3, Nadal 1
UO: Djokovic 3, Nadal 1, Federer 0

total: Nadal 12, Djokovic 11, Federer 5.

Djokovic has multiple wins at all four Slams, Nadal only at one, and Federer has zero at 3/4 Slams.
 
Jonas78 said:
And Istomin beat Nole and Stakhovsky Federer. Players arent at their best all the time, but Nadal 2006/2007 on grass was. Only peak-Fed could stop him there.
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the fact is to get 5 Wimbledon titles without Federer he would have had to win all three editions he lost to Federer in: 2006, 2007 and 2019.

2007 is safe, 2006 was his first grass final, and 2019 he would need to beat Nishikori or Berrettini and then Djokovic.

I think he wins 1-2 most likely.
 
dr325i said:
My favorite of the big 3+1 is actually that +1 = Andy Murray. But if I had to choose between the three, yes, Rafa and RF would be my less favorites.
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That much is obvious.
dr325i said:
None of what I said above are based on my subjective opinion - pure statistical (numbers) and expert feedback. And that is that ND is undisputed best and most achieved in history of our sport at this moment. In the era of the big three, plus AM, SW and a few other greats, this is not even up to discussion anywhere else but here, with the RF and Rafa fans denying it AFTER claiming a clear “winner” before ND crossed that 20 and then 22 mark. Then we had the FO win without beating Rafa, but then he beat him twice…
Then we had missing OG. He got that too…
Click to expand...

Numbers and "expert feedback" do not make your opinions on competition and level of play into facts, no matter if you might like to think otherwise.
Djokovic is certainly not the undisputed best considering he doesn't have the undisputed highest peak.
 
junkieballer said:
wins over the top ranked opponent:

AO: Djokovic 4, Federer 0
RG: Djokovic 2, Federer 0
UO: Djokovic 3, Federer 0

Stop overrating Fed. He is the GOAT shotmaker and the grass GOAT, but nothing more.
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Fred beat Joe at 2011 RG and had MPs against him at 2011 USO despite being 30.
Stop overrating Djokovic, he is the greatest weak era benefactor and the AO GOAT but nothing more. :D
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
"As you said" is not objective reality though, sad but true.
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Objectively, it is very.
You have a player who won 10 titles, 3 slams, 5 masters, had a score of 64:2 until the moment of injury, a score of 10:1 against the main ATG rivals and GOAT competitors.

It is subjective to say that Federer is the best, and at the same time not be able to confirm it. That's why Fed fans always resort to "proof by eye". ;)
 
junkieballer said:
the fact is to get 5 Wimbledon titles without Federer he would have had to win all three editions he lost to Federer in: 2006, 2007 and 2019.

2007 is safe, 2006 was his first grass final, and 2019 he would need to beat Nishikori or Berrettini and then Djokovic.

I think he wins 1-2 most likely.
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I agree he might win 2. Nole 2019 would be a tough match for both though. He wins 2006/2007 imo.
 
zakopinjo said:
Objectively, it is very.
You have a player who won 10 titles, 3 slams, 5 masters, had a score of 64:2 until the moment of injury, a score of 10:1 against the main ATG rivals and GOAT competitors.

It is subjective to say that Federer is the best, and at the same time not be able to confirm it. That's why Fed fans always resort to "proof by eye". ;)
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Djokovic from AO to USO '11 had GOAT success and overall strong competition, and played at a top level, but him having the single highest level is but a Djokocentric opinion.
 
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