What poly crosses last as long as natural gut mains?

C

ChanterRacquet

Professional
Fresh nat gut/revolve at 54/48 was fantastic. Then the revolve crosses lost tension and the whole bed became harder to control with too much power.

So I took out the revolve crosses as the mains were still good and just put in some multi or syn gut and it’s controllable again as the string bed isn’t deforming near as much at impact.

So…instead of restringing the crosses, is there a poly that maintains a semblance of performance over the life of the gut?

Not sure I want to try higher tension poly as I need the softness for the elbow and the same setup in another racquet was too stiff.

I break multis in a few hours but these gut mains are barely notched after many hours of play!

Or perhaps nat gut/syn gut is just the way to go when the goals are to take advantage of having gut mains but still keep the price reasonable to justify the expense of nat gut?

If so, what’s your go to syn gut cross? OGSM? Prince Lightening Pro? Forten Sweet?
 
ChanterRacquet said:
Fresh nat gut/revolve at 54/48 was fantastic. Then the revolve crosses lost tension and the whole bed became harder to control with too much power.

So I took out the revolve crosses as the mains were still good and just put in some multi or syn gut and it’s controllable again as the string bed isn’t deforming near as much at impact.

So…instead of restringing the crosses, is there a poly that maintains a semblance of performance over the life of the gut?

Not sure I want to try higher tension poly as I need the softness for the elbow and the same setup in another racquet was too stiff.

I break multis in a few hours but these gut mains are barely notched after many hours of play!

Or perhaps nat gut/syn gut is just the way to go when the goals are to take advantage of having gut mains but still keep the price reasonable to justify the expense of nat gut?

If so, what’s your go to syn gut cross? OGSM? Prince Lightening Pro? Forten Sweet?
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Some thoughts

Since your gut is far outlasting you poly my suggestion is don't use a huge tension differential as Poly is going to drop from there.

I tried cutting out cross and redoing it once (even opposite weaved to avoid the notches but it broke quickly - never again)

Maybe work into going full bed same tension except the poly can be thinner gauge (1.30 gut mains 1.25 poly crosses @ 54/54 or 53/53) - the poly will drop and you will soon have the tension differential anyway.

Use a different more modern co-poly cross - say Restring Sync

Gut x Multi is unlikely to last a long time and since Multi costs more than most Poly wouldn't be a huge benefit. If you are doing it (to replace the Poly in Gut x Poly) then do something like TF Multifeel which is slippery. OGSM is very firm and sticky so I guess the gut will be constantly out of place but you might not care. Forten Sweet is very soft and since the gut will be the one in rough shape when you put it in it might be fine.
 
If you want a soft slippery with decent tension maintenance, then look at Bab Syn Gut. Bab SG is renamed old Bab SpiralTek. This is personal experience tho some posts say otherwise.

If you really want to use poly similar to 4G, include RPM Team.
 
I used to use Kirschbaum Max Power for like 5+ years, then I decided to try out some newer strings and found Yonex Poly Tour Strike to be an amazing cross. And seems to maintain a very consistent stringbed even up until I snap the gut mains at 12-16 hours.
 
That's a big tension difference on your crosses and probably contributed to the lack of control you mentioned. Looking at softer, round crosses, you could try something like Ghost Wire or YTex Protour. Both of those have good tension maintenance and lifespan.
 
Max power 1.20 or 1.25 hands down. 4G will outlast all as it is the stiffer (stiffest?) string, but it is also shaped which is probably not what one wants with natural gut.

You can also try Gosen AK series - stiffer nylon string with either a multi core, tri- core, or syn gut core construction. AK strings are slippery.

Lastly, you can try a syn gut and play around with thickness, with and without kevlar wrap for longevity and spin. In this set-up friction is what will generate more of the spin not so much snap-back. Out of the three set ups this natural gut/syn gut combo offers the most power and feel.
 
stapletonj said:
Although some people consider it heresy, I have successfully restrung the crosses only on a gut/poly string job.
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Heresy? I do it all the time.

ryushen21 said:
It is heresy. There's being cheap and there's taking it too far. Restringing the crosses like that is the latter.
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If by "taking it too far" you're implying that I'm going to get the full usage out of an expensive pack of gut, then sure. Seems like an overexaggeration when you already know that gut is bottlenecked by poly in a hybrid.
 
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I haven't tried many different poly crosses so there are perhaps better alternatives, but when I used a gut/poly hybrid, 4G was the best cross for me. It maintained tension and playability the longest, and I had no issues with any stiffness. If anything, that stiffness and low power only made it better, as I prefer full poly but played with gut when I had slight tension in the arm. With gut mains, I had no such problem regardless of cross string, and a pretty high string tension (28kg/26kg).
 
thenewbig3 said:
Some thoughts

Since your gut is far outlasting you poly my suggestion is don't use a huge tension differential as Poly is going to drop from there.

I tried cutting out cross and redoing it once (even opposite weaved to avoid the notches but it broke quickly - never again)

Maybe work into going full bed same tension except the poly can be thinner gauge (1.30 gut mains 1.25 poly crosses @ 54/54 or 53/53) - the poly will drop and you will soon have the tension differential anyway.

Use a different more modern co-poly cross - say Restring Sync

Gut x Multi is unlikely to last a long time and since Multi costs more than most Poly wouldn't be a huge benefit. If you are doing it (to replace the Poly in Gut x Poly) then do something like TF Multifeel which is slippery. OGSM is very firm and sticky so I guess the gut will be constantly out of place but you might not care. Forten Sweet is very soft and since the gut will be the one in rough shape when you put it in it might be fine.
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I've tried, long ago, what you did, restringing poly on the opposite side of the notches in the gut, it also had broken. However, restringing into the notch is just fine. You can doi it maybe even twice.
10 lbs is about perfect differential. I do 60/50. Poly needs to be prestretched, for longer somewhat uniform playability.
 
I have strung up two PS 6.1 classics with Klip Legend 16 and Grapplesnake Irukanji (spelling?) in the crosses, the gray flat rectangle stuff. Someone here in a different thread recommended it so I tried it and really like it. Strings have great snapback and no notching yet that I can see. Strung mid to upper 50s, around 57 lbs iirc with only about a 1 lb differential for the poly. I did pre-stretch both strings quite heavily. I strung up my third 6.1 with the same mains but 4G soft 1.25 in the crosses and did not like it as much, a more 'boardy' feel for lack of a better way to describe it and honestly working with 4G is like working with weed whacker string hahaha. I only have a few hours on that one so I'm going to chop out the 4G and give something else a try.
 
ShahofTennis said:
If by "taking it too far" you're implying that I'm going to get the full usage out of an expensive pack of gut, then sure. Seems like an overexaggeration when you already know that gut is bottlenecked by poly in a hybrid.
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It'll never be worth the risk and stress put on the racquet by cutting out just the crosses. Not to mention other aspects that are affected.

It sucks that no poly will ever go the distance like gut, but it's just dumb to restring just the crosses.
 
ryushen21 said:
It'll never be worth the risk and stress put on the racquet by cutting out just the crosses. Not to mention other aspects that are affected.

It sucks that no poly will ever go the distance like gut, but it's just dumb to restring just the crosses.
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Even if you do everything involved with replacing your crosses while the frame is secured in a 6 point mounting system?

I shudder to think there are people out there who are just snipping poly crosses in a racquet thats not securely mounted

The frame is subjected only to the stresses of stringing, which, if you're restringing often with new poly, you're going to have to deal with anyway.
 
Not polys but for tension maintainance in monofilaments you can go Diadem Evolution or Babolat RPM soft which are both high power but holds tension well.
Maybe the slickness doesn't hold as long as some polys though.
 
ryushen21 said:
It'll never be worth the risk and stress put on the racquet by cutting out just the crosses. Not to mention other aspects that are affected.

It sucks that no poly will ever go the distance like gut, but it's just dumb to restring just the crosses.
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Racquet needs to be mounted first, before cuttimg the crosses.
I did it numerous times and it's fine, even on 2-point mounting machine.
 
ShahofTennis said:
Heresy? I do it all the time.



If by "taking it too far" you're implying that I'm going to get the full usage out of an expensive pack of gut, then sure. Seems like an overexaggeration when you already know that gut is bottlenecked by poly in a hybrid.
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you can leave the ends (0.4m) natural in the main during the first tightening. They will be useful for the second tightening when the Cross is damaged.
 
restringing crosses is no big deal, i do it all the time without a problem, dont even have to mount the racquet first. However, just use X-1 biphase instead of gut, save some money and just restring whole frame every time. X-1 feels better than gut for me.
 
@ChanterRacquet sounds like you’re looking for a poly as resilient as gut. Good luck. To begin with I would change the tension differential from 6# to a max of 3#. I don’t think you get enough of the plasticity removed from poly with a 6# difference. My number 1 most popular hybrid is X-One 16 / ALU Power Rough 125. My second most popular if VS Gut 16 / ALU Power Rough 125. Tension difference in the crosses are 0-3 lbs different.
 
blai212 said:
restringing crosses is no big deal, i do it all the time without a problem, dont even have to mount the racquet first. However, just use X-1 biphase instead of gut, save some money and just restring whole frame every time. X-1 feels better than gut for me.
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I don’t agree with restringing half a racket, but replacing gut with X-One or NXT is a good idea. Gut is getting too expensive. I’ve switched players from gut to X-One and they seldom go back. Those that go back say gut just feels better and don’t care about price.
 
I restring crosses every now and then, I don’t see an issue with that. I use a 6 point mount machine.

As for multi as a replacement for gut. I find that gut feels much better, provides more spin, and is more durable, plays true longer. To me, these benefits cover the 2.5x to 3x price difference. Taking playability duration in isolation, it all depends on the racquet you use. Stiff racquet with open string pattern: I won’t use gut. It will break too early to justify the cost. But in a softer (control) racquet with tighter string pattern, eg Blade or even Extreme Pro: yes, gut in mains makes 100% sense, it will play well much longer than a multi. Especially for an indoor season. 6 months of playability in my case.

Now to the original question. I am currently playing with Yonex Poly Tour Rev as a cross and I haven’t noticed tension loss yet after a couple weeks. I have used YPTP for years, but rev may be a good candidate.
 
BlueB said:
Racquet needs to be mounted first, before cuttimg the crosses.
I did it numerous times and it's fine, even on 2-point mounting machine.
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ChanterRacquet said:
Yeah, once mounted, cutting out the crosses is no different than having just strung the mains.
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Except that when you cut the first cross string the outside of the frame, particularly if the strings were installed at a high tension, decompresses/expands quite forcefully against the side mounts, while the inside of the frame likewise contracts against the two main mounts, possibly creating contusions &/or weakening the frame; again, this practice is not something I would ever do with a customer’s racquet, but the bar is lower & the consequences are fewer for backyarders/self stringers.
 
jmacdaununder2 said:
when you cut the first cross string the outside of the frame, particularly if the strings were installed at a high tension, decompresses/expands quite forcefully against the side mounts,
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I was surprised at how energetic the tension release was when I had to cut out the almost new poly crosses in my gut hybrid even though it was only at 50lbs. I put some of that down to the fresh polys retained high elasticity as unlike the pros I've never had to cut a fresh string job out.
The frame was securely mounted at 6points but you could definitely see and hear it "snap back" FWIW I restrung the crosses with MSV Swift which so far seems like a great option for a NG hybrid if you're looking for something more comfort focused.
 
Personal stringing - I will disagree with Irvin on this one, but very respectfully.

I agree that gut is getting ridiculous in price. BUT, try as I might, I cant get any multi to come to 90% of the feel, power, spin, bite, etc., of gut, and yes, I've tried several, Wilson, Tecnifibre, Yonex, etc.

AS long as you snug up your 6 point nice and tight, I have never seen any damage or movement when snipping out the crosses.

Do the crosses make a sound, especially the first couple? Yep. Have I ever had a racket crack on the machine from it? Nope.

Just my $0.02
 
This thread is fun reading for the half restringing

Also, going to throw this out there.
Can't someone doing the half string job use floating clamps as stents at the 3 and 9?

If secured, this should minimize violent tension drop.
 
Sync - a VERY slick/round poly - keeps it's characteristics for a surprisingly long time and makes a great cross string (better than Lux imho) to combine with natty gut in the mains.
 
HG 1.15 is my new fav cross string in v7 blade. Have restrung only crosses countless times with zero problems. It really isnt that big of a deal. I dont even mount it before I cut out crosses and still no problem. Y’all are paranoid about racquet safety. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Zx lasts like gut in terms tension but will eat through gut ( assuming a major elongation prestretch not around the pole)

Routinely restring the crosses with no issues. Though I do put them in the machine before cutting. And never heard anyone say this, but I do turn the center mounts to elongate the racquet a bit before cutting. You can see the frame get longer, maybe 2-3 turns. I am sure the people who have never done that will hassle me but never had ANY issues.

Been struggling with weight on the racquet staying on and a few months back I thought i had a cracked the racquet. Nope. Turns out it was just the weight and racquet is fine. They are a decade old or more and shroud has been beating the crap out of them with max machine tensions, restringing and skipping crosses, crazy tension differentials, machine mounting elongation and almost frictionless cross pulls. Sticks are fine.
 
Shroud said:
Zx lasts like gut in terms tension but will eat through gut ( assuming a major elongation prestretch not around the pole)

Routinely restring the crosses with no issues. Though I do put them in the machine before cutting. And never heard anyone say this, but I do turn the center mounts to elongate the racquet a bit before cutting. You can see the frame get longer, maybe 2-3 turns. I am sure the people who have never done that will hassle me but never had ANY issues.

Been struggling with weight on the racquet staying on and a few months back I thought i had a cracked the racquet. Nope. Turns out it was just the weight and racquet is fine. They are a decade old or more and shroud has been beating the crap out of them with max machine tensions, restringing and skipping crosses, crazy tension differentials, machine mounting elongation and almost frictionless cross pulls. Sticks are fine.
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2 of the points on a 6 point mount are 12 and 6 where you secure the frame via the inner hoop. I've always turned the dial's until 12 and 6 have very little or no give. Typically opt for no give if its the first time I restring crosses, and then go a little softer (very little give) on 2nd and 3rd restring because I have lost a considerable amount of tension and don't want to stress the mains, grommets, or frame. I have never turned enough to further elongate the frame. Frame and grommets would have to deform or take damage in order to give the mains more tension once everything is tied off. Also, because the gut mains are very elastic, they would probably see very little added tension in this case as well. I cant easily find more grommets for a lot of my sticks, so preserving the grommets is a priority.
 
ShahofTennis said:
2 of the points on a 6 point mount are 12 and 6 where you secure the frame via the inner hoop. I've always turned the dial's until 12 and 6 have very little or no give. Typically opt for no give if its the first time I restring crosses, and then go a little softer (very little give) on 2nd and 3rd restring because I have lost a considerable amount of tension and don't want to stress the mains, grommets, or frame. I have never turned enough to further elongate the frame. Frame and grommets would have to deform or take damage in order to give the mains more tension once everything is tied off. Also, because the gut mains are very elastic, they would probably see very little added tension in this case as well. I cant easily find more grommets for a lot of my sticks, so preserving the grommets is a priority.
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Grommets stressing? Not sure it matters. Meaning an actual impact with the ball will do more to stress the grommets than a few twists to move the center mounts. Never any grommet issues. Or frame issues either and have strung lots 30+ year old profiles.

Have you had actual problems from turning the center mounts? Grommet issues? Or is this just speculation?
 
I cant easily find more grommets for a lot of my sticks, so preserving the grommets is a priority.

Obviously the companies have no interest in allowing us to buy grommets when they can sell us another $309.00 racket.

I know little to nothing about 3D printing and patent law, but I cant imagine there is anything patentable about grommet strips and head guards.

Time to hoist the pirate flag and recruit some of us who have this kind of expertise!
 
stapletonj said:
I know little to nothing about 3D printing and patent law, but I cant imagine there is anything patentable about grommet strips and head guards.
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Current 3D printing tech just cannot produce usable grommets.

I cant even find grommets for my Ezone 98 2022!! (I have the 2024 Aqua Night Edition bought in 2025 and so its not even that old)
 
Shroud said:
Grommets stressing? Not sure it matters. Meaning an actual impact with the ball will do more to stress the grommets than a few twists to move the center mounts. Never any grommet issues. Or frame issues either and have strung lots 30+ year old profiles.

Have you had actual problems from turning the center mounts? Grommet issues? Or is this just speculation?
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Hitting the ball will cause structural wear, and thats unavoidable. But I won't hurt my babies any more than I absolutely have to.

But yes, purely speculation. I would rather not use the frame and grommets to pull my strings apart. The goal is to mount the frame so that its exactly the original length.
 
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ShahofTennis said:
Hitting the ball will cause structural wear, and thats unavoidable. But I won't hurt my babies any more than I absolutely have to.

But yes, purely speculation. I would rather not use the frame and grommets to pull my strings apart. The goal is to mount the frame so that its exactly the original length.
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Do some research. There is a reason why its worked for me. Fwiw i stretch the frame a tad when doing fresh string jobs anyhow.

But i get the not wanting to hurt the babies even if it wont.
 
Shroud said:
Do some research. There is a reason why its worked for me. Fwiw i stretch the frame a tad when doing fresh string jobs anyhow.

But i get the not wanting to hurt the babies even if it wont.
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Shroud... I'm pretty sure there's no one who stretches the frame more than you...

Still, it's true. Racquet elongation occurs anytime a cross is pulled and tension is being applied.
Elongation gets relaxed when the pull or tensioning stops.

When trying to apply even tension with mains and crosses, this is usually in fractions of a millimeter with poly strings, then more apparent with syngut/multi, and extremely apparent when you're using syngut/multi mains and poly crosses. It's a matter of engineering of the tension device and racquets should be built to handle this.
 
calmlyTryin said:
Shroud... I'm pretty sure there's no one who stretches the frame more than you...

Still, it's true. Racquet elongation occurs anytime a cross is pulled and tension is being applied.
Elongation gets relaxed when the pull or tensioning stops.

When trying to apply even tension with mains and crosses, this is usually in fractions of a millimeter with poly strings, then more apparent with syngut/multi, and extremely apparent when you're using syngut/multi mains and poly crosses. It's a matter of engineering of the tension device and racquets should be built to handle this.
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seems like the wilsons are. Lots have done differentials with lower crosses say 20-30lbs lower where the racquet gets shorter. But anyone done 20+ differential the other way with crosses more than the mains? And use stringweavers in the wrong position to minimize cross friction? Yep the frame elongates visibly. And yep the racquets appear to handle this craziness. As well doing that at machine max tensions like 60/86lbs or 86/15lbs, etc. Sure maybe my experience is somewhat unique because of kevlar mains and it not stretching much, but it DOES allow the frame to shorten or elongate. Anyhow its IMHO just over stated. Modern racquets are way better than the old school ones like 90s or earlier, where even thinking about restringing could crack a frame.
 
Shroud said:
Fwiw i stretch the frame a tad when doing fresh string jobs anyhow.
Click to expand...

When you stretch your frame even by a little bit, aren't you effectively altering the desired tension in the first place? Your frame is supposed to retain its intended shape so that you actually get your desired tension. The frame will probably try to return to its original shape once its off the press, so then your tension will obviously change.

calmlyTryin said:
Still, it's true. Racquet elongation occurs anytime a cross is pulled and tension is being applied.
Click to expand...

isnt the whole point of mounting the frame so you can tighten it only to the point where the frame is 27" and will not change during the stringing process?
 
ShahofTennis said:
isnt the whole point of mounting the frame so you can tighten it only to the point where the frame is 27" and will not change during the stringing process?
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I believe the mounting system minimizes deformation, however, it cannot eliminate it.

It is the nature of how strings must anchor to the item it's being tied to. Some force must be exerted, which causes deformation.

Back to basics: tensioning a string to 50lb, means there is 50lb of force being applied to the frame at that grommet point.

As you continue to tension, you are applying different pressure at different parts of the racket at different times. A 6 point mounting system cannot account for all the different points where there's pressure differences. Hence, you will get some deformation at different points at different times throughout stringing which also means you get some parts which elongates while others compress as well.
 
ShahofTennis said:
When you stretch your frame even by a little bit, aren't you effectively altering the desired tension in the first place? Your frame is supposed to retain its intended shape so that you actually get your desired tension. The frame will probably try to return to its original shape once its off the press, so then your tension will obviously change.



isnt the whole point of mounting the frame so you can tighten it only to the point where the frame is 27" and will not change during the stringing process?
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Exactly. Watch next time you string. The racquet gets shorter when installing the mains. Even on a 6 point the racquet will get shorter and then the crosses bring it back. Sounds like you don’t sting for yourself?? Anyhow this is all designed into modern racquets. Frames will be ok. And consistency no matter what your method is key.

In my head that shortening makes it have less tension than it could have so I stretch the frame to compensate because in my case i want the max tension i can get since i often string at the machine max and can’t increase tension as an option.
 
Shroud said:
Exactly. Watch next time you string. The racquet gets shorter when installing the mains. Even on a 6 point the racquet will get shorter and then the crosses bring it back. Sounds like you don’t sting for yourself?? Anyhow this is all designed into modern racquets. Frames will be ok. And consistency no matter what your method is key.

In my head that shortening makes it have less tension than it could have so I stretch the frame to compensate because in my case i want the max tension i can get since i often string at the machine max and can’t increase tension as an option.
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I see your point, and I do string for myself which is why I guess I have my own suppositions on it. I have not seen the racquet get shorter while on the press, that's what the mounts at 6 and 12 are there for, right? Maybe the hoop does get shorter when you string at max tension, but then it sounds like the mounts are failing if the frame deforms despite all that.
 
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calmlyTryin said:
Back to basics: tensioning a string to 50lb, means there is 50lb of force being applied to the frame at that grommet point.
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this really makes me wonder why the concept of power pads, a cushioning layer between the string and grommets is not more of a thing. Might need to start experimenting.
 
ShahofTennis said:
this really makes me wonder why the concept of power pads, a cushioning layer between the string and grommets is not more of a thing. Might need to start experimenting.
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You're introducing moving parts to a system.

No technician (in our case - stringer) would want extra moving parts - unless there's some compensation. I argue that in performance, there is none.

Add you'll need to pre-compress these power pads, similar to pre-stretching a string to maintain tension stability. That's due too the fact that it's no longer just the graphite frame anchoring the string to a tension, it's the graphite frame and a layer of soft leather. (Like anchoring on a sand beach instead of rocks)

The only item that would be functional are acrylic pads, which act as extenders to lengthen the string around a grommet point. (I want to say this might be something for @Shroud who does experiment with compressing a racket and therefore string length modifications)
 
calmlyTryin said:
The only item that would be functional are acrylic pads, which act as extenders to lengthen the string around a grommet point. (I want to say this might be something for @Shroud who does experiment with compressing a racket and therefore string length modifications)
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I was thinking, but instead of acrylic you could reinforce the contact points with UHMW plastic. At that point you could crank the tension up and overturn the mounts all you want.
 
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