what 's the reason federer 's wimbledon level was so dropped after 2009 wimbledon ? ( serious post )

skypadq

skypadq

Hall of Fame
i really belive right after federer won 09 wimbledon
he could win 10 wimbledon
but he didn't
he reached 7 consecutive final at 03 ~ 09 wimbledon and he won 6 of them

then , federer lost like tomas beydych at 2010 wimbledon and tsonga at 2011 wimbledon
this is two total wasted loss for federer
and i don 't understand this two loss
i understand he lost 2013 wimbledon 2R ( he had the worst year and he had injury )
i understand he lost raonic at 2016 wimbledon sf ( he had injury also )
but these two loss i can 't understand

these two lost at 2010 wimbledon final agianst nadal and 2011 wimbledon SF aginast djokovic

please don 't say joke
i want to know reason
 
Burnout maybe. Federer is normally great at beating these weak era opponents like Berdych and Tsonga. His form started to improve again in 2012 and then he had to deal with strong era opponent like Djokovic in his later Wimbledon final losses.
 
killerboss said:
Burnout maybe. Federer is normally great at beating these weak era opponents like Berdych and Tsonga. His form started to improve again in 2012 and then he had to deal with strong era opponent like Djokovic in his later Wimbledon final losses.
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yes and no
06 federer vs 15 djokovic at wimbledon final ?
i pick 06 federer
06 federer was total monster

and federer is 6 year older than novak djokovic
 
skypadq said:
yes and no
06 federer vs 15 djokovic at wimbledon final ?
i pick 06 federer
06 federer was total monster

and federer is 6 year older than novak djokovic
Click to expand...

You can't peak Federer as a winner in such contest as Federer 2015 was better palyer than Federer 2006 and Djokovic beat him.

If you are in disagreement with this school of thought, please find enclosed proof that Federer2015 is better than Federer2006:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practiced for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August, 2015)
 
ABCD said:
You can't peak Federer as a winner in such contest as Federer 2015 was better palyer than Federer 2006 and Djokovic beat him.

If you are in disagreement with this school of thought, please find enclosed proof that Federer2015 is better than Federer2006:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practiced for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August, 2015)
Click to expand...

He is on point here. The truth is that Federer couldn't handle pressure that well when he was 24 because he was used to beat everybody and that's why he started losing to Nadal when he became a threat. Now it's different, he can deal with pressure a lot better because he knows people don't expect him to win against Djokal and he probably doesn't either.

Nadal_Django said:
Federer won Wimbledon 09 only because Rafa wasn't there. Serious answer.
Click to expand...

If Roddick had been more stable mentally he would have beaten Federer. From what I remember he threw that match away.
 
His level didn't drop, Rafa came back from injury and Djokovic improved.

The ATP isn't just about what ONE player is capable of doing, it involves hundreds of pros...
 
For me, 2010 and 2011 are the biggest wastes. Especially 2011 where he was in decent form but just choked and Tsonga kind of GOATed.

those were years he should’ve been consolidating his best slam. By 2014 his baseline and return game were too far gone to compete with a peak ATG as good as Djokovic.

2019 Djokovic declined a bit and fed upped his level so he nearly got it done.
 
ABCD said:
You can't peak Federer as a winner in such contest as Federer 2015 was better palyer than Federer 2006 and Djokovic beat him.

If you are in disagreement with this school of thought, please find enclosed proof that Federer2015 is better than Federer2006:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practiced for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August, 2015)
Click to expand...
Federer 2006 is a better player in every single aspect of tennis than his 2015 version. Maybe serve is on par.

Federer spinning some PR media talk =\= fact.
 
ABCD said:
You can't peak Federer as a winner in such contest as Federer 2015 was better palyer than Federer 2006 and Djokovic beat him.

If you are in disagreement with this school of thought, please find enclosed proof that Federer2015 is better than Federer2006:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practiced for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August, 2015)
Click to expand...

When I go back and watch the 2006 Wimbledon Final, all of this shows. His backhand (both topspin and slice), volleying, and serve are all worse than the 2015 version. He moved better in 06 obviously, but he was still moving very well in 2015 (especially on grass).
 
skypadq said:
i really belive right after federer won 09 wimbledon
he could win 10 wimbledon
but he didn't
he reached 7 consecutive final at 03 ~ 09 wimbledon and he won 6 of them

then , federer lost like tomas beydych at 2010 wimbledon and tsonga at 2011 wimbledon
this is two total wasted loss for federer
and i don 't understand this two loss
i understand he lost 2013 wimbledon 2R ( he had the worst year and he had injury )
i understand he lost raonic at 2016 wimbledon sf ( he had injury also )
but these two loss i can 't understand

these two lost at 2010 wimbledon final agianst nadal and 2011 wimbledon SF aginast djokovic

please don 't say joke
i want to know reason
Click to expand...

Nadal, is that you?
 
daggerman said:
When I go back and watch the 2006 Wimbledon Final, all of this shows. His backhand (both topspin and slice), volleying, and serve are all worse than the 2015 version. He moved better in 06 obviously, but he was still moving very well in 2015 (especially on grass).
Click to expand...
LOL

BH probably even worse than his FH in 2015... hence why he was being completely biased by Djokovic in every rally

LOL @2015 slice being better:-D
 
I went back and watched 2015 highlights, just confirmed what I remember watching it live. Decent going forward to the net and serving, very mediocre from both sides at the baseline which is where modern tennis is won... only 2010, 2013 and 2018 I’d call worse showings since he first won there. 2014 about on par.
 
Younger players with lots of power, such as Berdych and Tsonga, had come along by 2010. Also, Federer had a leg injury, which he complained loudly about after the 2010 loss.
 
daggerman said:
When I go back and watch the 2006 Wimbledon Final, all of this shows. His backhand (both topspin and slice), volleying, and serve are all worse than the 2015 version. He moved better in 06 obviously, but he was still moving very well in 2015 (especially on grass).
Click to expand...
Better backhand in 2015, much better serve, forehand and movement as good in 2006, in 2006 to pasive, staying more on the baseline, in 2015 much more offensive, taking the initiative as early in the point, going to the net more often, he moved a lot more in 2015, the final match statistics showed that he outrun Djokovic by few hundred meters more. ;)
 
Nadal_Django said:
Better backhand in 2015, much better serve, forehand and movement as good in 2006, in 2006 to pasive, staying more on the baseline, in 2015 much more offensive, taking the initiative as early in the point, going to the net more often, he moved a lot more in 2015, the final match statistics showed that he outrun Djokovic by few hundred meters more. ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah because Djokovic dictated play by having Fed run on defence because his baseline game wasn’t strong enough.

he didn’t need to net rush in 2006... he had the best FH ever in peak form and his serve + 1 did the job. I can only assume you haven’t seen a single Federer match from pre 2014 or you’re just trolling.

Another candidate for dumbest post of 2020 and we’re only 1 month in.
 
Honestly? His play didn't drop, he just got some competition. He was able to win the amount of championships that he did because the real competition had not yet arrived.
 
Nadal_Django said:
Federer won Wimbledon 09 only because Rafa wasn't there. Serious answer.
Click to expand...

Err no.

People act like 2008 WB was a proof that Rafa will always beat Roger at WB.

But forget that Rafa too was an inch away from defeat.In Last 3 sets there was nothing separating them. And just a year before, Federer downed a similarly well playing Nadal, just because he was more clutch.


You people complain about Federer winning hypothetical matches yet give Nadal moral wins in them.

I bet you 2009 WB would be as 50-50 as they come. Even with slight edge to Federer given the RG high and the fact he was serving like a mad man.
 
TennisHockey said:
Honestly? His play didn't drop, he just got some competition. He was able to win the amount of championships that he did because the real competition had not yet arrived.
Click to expand...

And that explains his losses in masters and slams to all those non big 4 player he used to straight set?

Even Roddick got him in 2010.


Let's face it after around AO 2010 Federer was never as consistent as before. Yes he did have tourneys rivalling his best ones but they weren't back to back anymore.
 
Third Serve said:
And Berdych and Tsonga and Stakhovsky...
Click to expand...

OK so you're determining there's a level drop because he lost 3 matches to people he never lost to, and never lost to again.

It's called sports, some days you do lose.

Everyone loses tennis matches - Federer lost to Canas in back to back weeks during his glory days - what was the reason there? My reason sounds much more logical
 
Federer had a lot more power earlier in his career. Maybe now, if you isolate his forehand, it stands alone better but thats not all there is to it. His movement was so much faster earlier on, and when his opponents hit the ball short he would usually hit the ball so hard that it would bounce and still be rising as it hit the back wall, making a massive "thump". When do you ever see that happen?

Federer being better now is just a convenient story people tell themselves when they want a different player to look better. Its the same kind of logic that requires that Federer be the GOAT in order for your random preffered player to be even GOAT-IER.
 
Enga said:
Federer had a lot more power earlier in his career. Maybe now, if you isolate his forehand, it stands alone better but thats not all there is to it. His movement was so much faster earlier on, and when his opponents hit the ball short he would usually hit the ball so hard that it would bounce and still be rising as it hit the back wall, making a massive "thump". When do you ever see that happen?

Federer being better now is just a convenient story people tell themselves when they want a different player to look better. Its the same kind of logic that requires that Federer be the GOAT in order for your random preffered player to be even GOAT-IER.
Click to expand...

Federer definitely pioneered the game. No doubt - but the game caught up to him. The only guy who had a forehand comparable was Nadal and Fernando Gonzalez, and that's all he had.

Del Potro forehand is another level, now you have huge hitters like Thiem and even Kyrgios hits and enormous ball. Everyone hits as big as Federer now. He didn't get worse, others caught up.

What's so difficult to understand about people have caught up to him? If he didn't improve he would have became Hewitt, who was stagnant and if you're not getting better, you're getting worse.
 
BrooklynNY said:
OK so you're determining there's a level drop because he lost 3 matches to people he never lost to, and never lost to again.

It's called sports, some days you do lose.

Everyone loses tennis matches - Federer lost to Canas in back to back weeks during his glory days - what was the reason there? My reason sounds much more logical
Click to expand...
It seemed at the time that his grasp over Bo3 in 2007 had begun to slip. Still one of his best seasons but his Masters results weren't the greatest.

I'm just saying that it's pretty hard to chalk it all down to "Nadal and Djokovic improving" when Federer goes from 6/7 consecutive titles to a more mixed range of results that includes some QFs, some finals, some wins, and even an early loss. Even if you remove Nadal and Djokovic, he still wins less.
 
BrooklynNY said:
Federer definitely pioneered the game. No doubt - but the game caught up to him. The only guy who had a forehand comparable was Nadal and Fernando Gonzalez, and that's all he had.

Del Potro forehand is another level, now you have huge hitters like Thiem and even Kyrgios hits and enormous ball. Everyone hits as big as Federer now. He didn't get worse, others caught up.

What's so difficult to understand about people have caught up to him? If he didn't improve he would have became Hewitt, who was stagnant and if you're not getting better, you're getting worse.
Click to expand...
You can say people caught up to him if you believe in the myth that sports is ever evolving, ever "improving". You look at the way the game is today and the way the game was 20 years ago, and you'll notice that its a different game. It didn't evolve, it changed, so this old dog had to learn new tricks. If that's called "getting better", then I guess that's one way of putting it. Yes, he was forced to get better because his skill set became obsolete, but you're all acting like he didn't lose anything in the process.

That's where people's perception gets skewed. 06 was only very shortly after Sampras retired, and I think most people have the common sense to know that you can't compare Sampras' era with this one. Yet when it comes to Federer, they forget that he has been around for around 20 years. The game has changed. His ability to stay relevant is a testament to his skills alone, not to his adversaries.

Better in tennis terms is subjective, but the one thing that isn't subjective is power, athleticism. What is tennis? A game that is essentially a release of energy. If you can look at Federer now, reaching to the forehand side and barely making it, and say that he is better than in 06, when he ran to the forehand side and exploded the ball back with precision, you're crazy. It would be like saying that Thiem will be better in 10 years, AFTER he loses his speed and his power, THEN he will be better. Of course.
 
Federer came close to winning 0 Wimbledon's from 2007-2009. Reminds me of Djokovic at Wimbledon the last couple of years. When you just barely win again and again it is not a positive sign.
 
BrooklynNY said:
Federer definitely pioneered the game. No doubt - but the game caught up to him. The only guy who had a forehand comparable was Nadal and Fernando Gonzalez, and that's all he had.

Del Potro forehand is another level, now you have huge hitters like Thiem and even Kyrgios hits and enormous ball. Everyone hits as big as Federer now. He didn't get worse, others caught up.

What's so difficult to understand about people have caught up to him? If he didn't improve he would have became Hewitt, who was stagnant and if you're not getting better, you're getting worse.
Click to expand...

Just like the game caught up to Sampras, right? He just played an improved version of himself in 2001 Wimbledon which is why he lost and the can called it quits short after.
 
The drop already happened in 2007 when his return plummeted.

His absolute best level on grass was 2003-2006, then in 2007-2009 he was still very good but slipping a bit year on year.

In 2010 he had niggling injuries and in 2011 Tsonga just got really hot on serve - 2012 was his last hurrah in terms of prime level and he played great in the last three rounds. Since then he's been good enough against the field but lacked the athleticism to deal with Djokovic.
 
NatF said:
The drop already happened in 2007 when his return plummeted.

His absolute best level on grass was 2003-2006, then in 2007-2009 he was still very good but slipping a bit year on year.

In 2010 he had niggling injuries and in 2011 Tsonga just got really hot on serve - 2012 was his last hurrah in terms of prime level and he played great in the last three rounds. Since then he's been good enough against the field but lacked the athleticism to deal with Djokovic.
Click to expand...
What do you think was better for Federer 2015 Wimbeldon or 2017 Wimbeldon?
Thinking 2015 for the field maybe slightly but 2017 for Novak/Nadal slightly at peak level?
 
NatF said:
Served better in 2015, better off the ground in 2017, better mentally in 2017 - so edge to 2017 IMO.
Click to expand...
Seemed Fed started slower in 2017 and built up as it progressed . Stamina seemed better in 2017 generally than 2015 even though he did have to play a slower pace which might have helped.
 
KINGROGER said:
Federer 2006 is a better player in every single aspect of tennis than his 2015 version. Maybe serve is on par.

Federer spinning some PR media talk =\= fact.
Click to expand...
Do Fed is laying to make more money...
Agree generally, but not in this case...
 
ReeceSachs said:
Seemed Fed started slower in 2017 and built up as it progressed . Stamina seemed better in 2017 generally than 2015 even though he did have to play a slower pace which might have helped.
Click to expand...

I think he was probably a bit quicker in 2015 as well tbh. I just think his nothing to lose mentality and forehand especially were much better in 2017. That was the key shot I felt in his AO 2017 campaign, he had the I/O forehand back. His draw wasn't tough at Wimby in 2017 but whenever he was under threat of losing serve or momentum he seemed to find a great forehand. Best single match out of the two years would be the 2015 SF because his serve was so insane but otherwise I think 2017 was slightly better all things considered.
 
On topic, I think it's opposite to what OP says...

Federer is big overachiever at Wimbledon...

He should lost 07 to Nadal...
He should lost 09 to RodDick...
He should lost 12 to fckn Benettau...

About 5 other Wimbledon's, he should thanks to weakest era ever he got... Yeah, he definitely overachived...
 
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