what separates the top 100 and top 5?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Tayytennis, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. Tayytennis

    Tayytennis New User

    Jan 5, 2013
    I have been trying to tell apart the top 100 tanked players and the top 5 ranked players.
    I think one thing would be the players' body language after the point - top 5 player stats the same no matter what, and top 100 player would show facial expressions and shrug his shoulder etc... Any ideas on what else separates these players?
  2. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Legend

    Nov 30, 2012
    By "Top 5", I hope you mean the Big Four + Del Potro.

    There is no reason to include Ferrer in with the Big Four, no matter what his ranking is.
  3. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Jul 13, 2009
    Um, have you seen a match with Andy Murray where he hasn't gotten a warning for cursing? He's always yelling something at himself.

    I think the difference is that since everyone in the top 100 has the shots to win a match at any given time, the best guys are willing to take as long as or do whatever necessary to win a point. The lesser guys might play too passively or too aggressively. Hitting that extra ball I think makes all the difference.
  4. Backbored

    Backbored Hall of Fame

    Sep 2, 2006
    Mallorn trees of Lothlorien.
    The top five have a snowballs chance of beating each other, and a 95% chance of beating the other 95 top rank players.
  5. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

    Oct 13, 2012
    It's all about consistency and mentality these days. Especially mentality. Of course some players are just more talented than others, but any of the top 100 these days can beat the top 5, it's just all about the top 5 being better under pressure.
  6. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Jan 24, 2012
    4 out of Top 5 = 35 Grand Slams
    Rest of Top 100 = 3 Grand Slams
  7. SLD76

    SLD76 G.O.A.T.

    Aug 31, 2009
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    I miss the days where you would have that shock finalst/slam winner

    The surfaces make it pretty predictable who will be in the semis and finals

    The last time someone not of the big 4 made a slam final was 2010 with soderling and berdych crashing the party.

    Then 09 with soderling and delpo.

    Then 08 with tsonga at AO

    Then 07 with gonzalez at the AO and I think roddick at the USO. But roddick was a top ten player then and a 1 time slam winner

    Then 06 with bagdhatis at AO and I forget who fed beat at uso that year..

    So basically since 08, the big 4 have dominated the slam finals
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  8. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Jan 24, 2012
    Roddick was USO 2006. Agassi USO 2005.

    2007 USO was Djokovic.
  9. Mainad

    Mainad Bionic Poster

    Apr 1, 2011
    Manchester, UK.
    *For 08, you could add Murray. He was still only ranked #6 at the time.
  10. Onehandedbackhand

    Onehandedbackhand Professional

    Dec 31, 2012
    Yet Daveed annihilates Delpo with the greatest of ease
  11. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

    Feb 11, 2005
    So Cal

    The ability to afford jet fuel for their private planes.
  12. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

    Dec 1, 2005
    Skill , Talent , $....
  13. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

    May 23, 2011
    Shouldnt the title be " what seperates the top 5 from the top 100"?

    99% of it is mental. Murray does not do as well as Djoko Nad and Fed because he can explode on court.

    Here is a good example. Brian Baker made a run to the Nice final in 2012. In all his matches he was rock solid mentally. He DF's quite alot, but did not lose it. He missed a lot of easy FH's but none of it phased him. In recent matches he now talks to himself etc. during matches. He has immense talent as the other top 100, but mentally he can lose it.
  14. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Jan 1, 2009
    Nah, Murray does not have strong body language and his facial expressions is one of the worst.

    Nadal used to have better body language, but his face easily shows anger or disappointment.

    Facial expression does not decide between top 5 and top 100, the only thing, for the 100th time is

  15. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

    Feb 19, 2013
    Sure there's a mental aspect to it, but they're just better.

    If I had to pick just one thing thouhg, I'd say movement/footwork. They are superior in that regard.

    But, generally speaking, they can hold their own in any category with any player, and then have advantage with the other players weakness. For example, guys like Raonic and Isner have big serves and powerful groundstrokes, but suffer at a huge disadvantage in movement.

    Other guys who might be similar in movement, don't have the groundstrokes of the Big 4.
  16. Sabratha

    Sabratha Talk Tennis Guru

    Jun 6, 2012
    I think the difference between the top 5 and the top 20 is mental, and from then on it involves skill.
  17. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Jul 6, 2012
    Lukas Rosol laughs at your statistics.
  18. adil1972

    adil1972 Hall of Fame

    Oct 4, 2012
    please provide the year and name of grand slam won by rest of top 100
  19. Max G.

    Max G. Legend

    Feb 18, 2004
    Nah, I think the difference between the top 4 and the next guys isn't just mental, it's physical too

    Being better at the physical game - faster, harder shots, more spin - MAKES you more mentally tough.

    Like, when Djokovic plays some guy ranked #20, the #20 guy might be able to hang with Djokovic by going for 100% on every shot. But then at the big moments, he tries to bring his level even higher, and he can't, because he's already going for everything he can. Whereas Djokovic can play within himself - his "I can do this all day" game is as good or better than the #20 guy's "I'm playing out of my comfort zone" game.

    So when it comes to a tiebreak, or a close moment, Djokovic has one more gear - whereas the other guy doesn't, and either makes some errors because he tries to go for too much or just gets outhit.

    It's physical as well as mental. I mean, sure, there's players whose mental game is their weakness, but not as many as it seems. I think a lot of guys who seem mentally weak when playing against the Big 4 really seem like that just because their A game isn't good enough and they're going for their A+ game and can't do it.
    thegame_cerebral likes this.
  20. adil1972

    adil1972 Hall of Fame

    Oct 4, 2012
    obviously their ranking

  21. Sabratha

    Sabratha Talk Tennis Guru

    Jun 6, 2012
    Lleyton Hewitt - US Open 2001, Wimbledon 2002. YE #1 for 2001 and 2002.
    Juan Martin Del Potro - US Open 2009, has been apart of the top 4 before.
  22. Amelie Mauresmo

    Amelie Mauresmo Banned

    Nov 17, 2010
    I think the OP's topic is wrong obviously the big difference between the top 100 and top 5 is consistency and talent. I think the question should really be what is the difference between the top 20 and the top 5. There are a few players in the top 10 such as Gasquet and Tipsarevic ranked 9th and 10th who I believe aren't really top 10 players. I know my comment might sound odd in terms of their ranking Gasquet and Tipsarevic are top 10 but in terms of being a contender it is really the top 8. The top 8 players have clearly separated themselves from the pack. Even in the top 8 though there are different levels. The Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro, Ferrer are solid players but they lack that extra mental toughness to breakthrough. Andy Murray is considered by the western media top 4 but in my mind he's closer to the Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro, Ferrer group he is inconsistent, can lose in the first round on any given day. The gold standard of men's tennis are the Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, they have the most slams, they are the ones ranked number 1 and they have the mental toughness and consistency the rest of the guys lack.
  23. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

    Oct 1, 2012
    Agreed. Fans and players alike talk a lot about having confidence etc, but IMO, that's just waffle so they don't need to get into the nitty gritty and give away their tactics or reveal technical weaknesses.

    The way I see it, a top player will find a way to win. If their opponent is playing brilliant shots, they'll hang on in there until they can work out how to get past them. They always have a Plan B, and if required, Plans C, D and E.
    They have the skill and shots that let them switch strategy, and also the gumption to know when and how to change it.

    Mental strength and general savvyness is required to make the right decisions about tactics at the right time, but mainly they've got the most tools at their disposal and they know how to use them.
  24. Backhanded Compliment

    Backhanded Compliment Legend

    Feb 16, 2011
    This... the elite players; No1e, Rafa, Fed, Murray all have both the resources and consistency + variety of weapons at their disposal to always expect to win till they get to a GS semi. They simply have a greater well of resourcse both physical, mental and support wise that keeps them near peak performance all of the time. It is more of a science now than it was in the 80's. Also, since we havent had many surprise finalist/winners at GS events it hasn't given those outside the elite 4 players any hope.

    A guy like Soderling or Tommy Haas is a different story... they know they can hurt those elite players if they redline. That is why Wawrinka didnt knock off Djoker at the AO this year. Had that been Haas playing that well No1e would not have survived. Stan isnt the giant killer he could/should be.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  25. LanceStern

    LanceStern Professional

    Aug 30, 2008
    I agree with this, which also really agrees with the first post about it being mental and physical.

    I would attribute it to someone who was talking about a fighting videogame before:
    The top 4 know what to do in certain situations, know when to do it and are CAPABLE of doing it. It may come from the consistent practices or their natural talent, but the others don't have it; the other top 10 or so can redline for a match or two and beat the top 4/5 on an off day, but not consistently.

    (Super Smash Bros. Brawl, ROB player talking about the metaknight matchup)
  26. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Jun 18, 2004
    For Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray -

    God-given talent.
    This includes the mental and emotional side of things.

    All of the things that make up a tennis player must be nurtured and improved constantly as they were growing up, but there is a level of talent in all areas that the top guys have that others don't.
    Guys like Ferrer and Michael Russell get the maximum out of their talent. Guys like Monfils may have tremendous talent in some area or areas of the game, but not all of them.
    There is so much to tennis that it is rare that someone is immensely talented in all facets of the game.
  27. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

    Feb 19, 2013
    I agree with you completely. Some, if not much, of their mental toughness is derived from their physical ability. They're better, they know it, thus they trust their games and can play more free and relaxed in the big moments.

    It is no different than you or I playing against someone we know we're better than...or against someone we know we aren't as good as.

    Fitness is also a factor. If you know you're physically fit enough to play 5 hours, it gives you confidence and mental toughness. I think much of Ferrer's mental toughness against the field is derived from his fitness. He knows he can run all day and play backboard and wear them down. Against the top 4, his mental toughness is gone because he knows they are better than him.

    The Big 4 have noticeable advantages over any player in field rated below them.

    vs. guys like Raonic, Isner, Berdych, Delpo, etc. - it is movement

    vs. others it may be power or variety or something else depending on the particular matchup

    Or, take Federer vs. Haas, for example. They have very similar games at this point, but Federer is just better at pretty much all of it.

    Ferrer vs. Nadal - very similar, Nadal is just better at everything.
  28. doobiedoodoo

    doobiedoodoo Rookie

    Jun 28, 2012
    I would separate the top 100 and the top 3.
  29. jrs

    jrs Professional

    Jul 10, 2009
    I say it's mental - Physically top 100 are all great athletes, Talent wise - all are up there, skill wise - they all posses great shots - chances are most of these players were/are champions from whatever country they're from.

    Read somewhere "people who win are the people who think they can"

    Rest of the 96 don't think they can win against the top 4. I think in 2011 Djokovic almost had top 99 thinking they can't win against him.

    So my vote it's all mental at the top 100 level!
  30. Harry_Wild

    Harry_Wild Hall of Fame

    Apr 5, 2007
    How about a couple million dollars a year and a private jet to go from place to place in style along with a bunch of groupies like personal trainers, coaches hitting partners girl/boy friends, etc....!

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