What serve stance is the best? HELP

[MurrayMyInspiration]

I cant figure out what serve stance to use. I currently use the platform like fed and djok, but I find that I get mor power with the querry,isner,anderson,haas,mayer motion of stepping my right foot up to join my left one for a pinpoint stance. It gives me more time to get my legs bent and my whole body into the shot, The platform stance rushes me a little bit. What about the murray serve where he glides his feet together or the simon or wawrinka serve where they flex their body like a sling shot....Which one is techically the most efficient and effective use of the the muscles in the body to generate most power, spin etc....Biomechanically the best stance... The kinetic chain or whatever...you get what I mean

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Whatever works for you is the best. It's a matter of personal preference. We've seen the best servers in the game use both/either. We have also seen a hybrid stance (narrow platform) from one of the top servers of the past decade if not of all time = Andy Roddick.

Pressure plate studies done (in the 90s, I believe) showed a very slight advantage (more ground reaction force) with the pinpoint stance. However, it's really your own implementation of any of these stances that really matter.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

consistency and spin is more important at the req level, and the platform really helps in those departments. You can toss the ball farther back for a good kick serve. You aren't moving your feet as you toss so you will have a more consistent placement, I think the benefits far outweigh the weaknesses, but I admit it seemed much worse compared to my pinpoint when I started it.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

consistency and spin is more important at the req level, and the platform really helps in those departments. You can toss the ball farther back for a good kick serve. You aren't moving your feet as you toss so you will have a more consistent placement, I think the benefits far outweigh the weaknesses, but I admit it seemed much worse compared to my pinpoint when I started it.

My spin and consistency on my serve are good...I just feel as if sometimes with the platform everything does not come together fast enough and I lose power in some serves, where as with the hybrid stance to pinpoint I get more time to launch myself into the serve and get a cleaner hit more often then not....Does pinpoint and hybrid contribute to more power? Have they done any studies that support a particular stance? I know personal preference is important in the decision!

 

[3fees]

Platform requires fast swinging racquet and much torso twist to get power ,,pinpoint or semi-step uses the weight shift going forward to get power,,if you hit the ball with semi-step any other time then when your weight is shifting forward--you have mishit the serve,,,

 

[VeeSe]

What you feel most comfortable with will produce the best results by far. The advantages you get from using the stance that you feel the best with far outweigh the differences from science of it, etc.

 

[Power Player]

Focus on which one is best for your balance. This is what i have been working on, and it ended up that platform helps me most.

 

[LeeD]

Try throwing a ball far and hard.
Do you tend to take multiple steps?
Do you take one step forward with your lead foot?
That might impact your service motion.

 

[Fuji]

Try throwing a ball far and hard.
Do you tend to take multiple steps?
Do you take one step forward with your lead foot?
That might impact your service motion.

How so? When I throw a football (ex) as far and as hard as I can, I take 3 to 4 steps to do so.

-Fuji

 

[WildVolley]

I prefer the platform, perhaps partly because I use it, but mostly because it has fewer moving parts.

The problem I have with a lot of beginners using the pinpoint is that they use the stance to chase their poor tosses around, or they allow their balance to go all over the place. If done properly, the pinpoint is an excellent stance and may aid in getting the body forward into the shot.

For the OP, why would the pinpoint give you more time? Isn't the amount of time you have in the swing dependent upon how high you toss the ball?

 

[LeeD]

Exactly!
You and I both.
BUT, lots of QB's in high school and college take only the left foot step forwards to throw 50+ yards. They are the platform serving guys. Former UGeorgia QB, a 2 year starter, couldn't figure out how to incorporate 2-3 steps into a deep throw, but could throw 50 yard bullets that never went higher than 12 or so feet off the ground.
Consider also, pitcher's catchers, infielder', and outfielder's throwing footwork.
Catchers take on step ,for quickness.
Pitcher's learned to take the one step.
SS and 3rd can take two steps.
But second baseline pivot and take only one step max, usually no steps off the bag at second.
Outfielders often take 2-4 steps.
The later would be like a pinpoint motion.
The former more like platform.

 

[Ash_Smith]

If done properly, the pinpoint is an excellent stance and may aid in getting the body forward into the shot.

Platform generally creates greater forward momentum. Pinpoint creates greater vertical momentum.

Cheers

 

[Fuji]

Exactly!
You and I both.
BUT, lots of QB's in high school and college take only the left foot step forwards to throw 50+ yards. They are the platform serving guys. Former UGeorgia QB, a 2 year starter, couldn't figure out how to incorporate 2-3 steps into a deep throw, but could throw 50 yard bullets that never went higher than 12 or so feet off the ground.
Consider also, pitcher's catchers, infielder', and outfielder's throwing footwork.
Catchers take on step ,for quickness.
Pitcher's learned to take the one step.
SS and 3rd can take two steps.
But second baseline pivot and take only one step max, usually no steps off the bag at second.
Outfielders often take 2-4 steps.
The later would be like a pinpoint motion.
The former more like platform.

Surprisingly that actually makes sense haha! Good point LeeD! I feel as though I should try and work transition to pinpoint, as I really haven't messed with it all that much.

-Fuji

 

[LeeD]

But I thought you were 6'1" tall, young, and already serve really hard. As such, maybe you need accuracy over pure power.
And pinpoint might not favor baseliners, as all that vertical work, coupled with some forward motion, places you into NML after you serve.
I thought pinpoint was mainly for guys who wanted to get into the court 5' after they hit the ball, so they can travel another 7' in to get to service line position for most first volleys.
Of course, I'm often wrong, too.

 

[Fuji]

But I thought you were 6'1" tall, young, and already serve really hard. As such, maybe you need accuracy over pure power.
And pinpoint might not favor baseliners, as all that vertical work, coupled with some forward motion, places you into NML after you serve.
I thought pinpoint was mainly for guys who wanted to get into the court 5' after they hit the ball, so they can travel another 7' in to get to service line position for most first volleys.
Of course, I'm often wrong, too.

LOL! I'm 6'0, but yeah! I serve pretty hard as is. If you look though, a few of the top servers have pinpoint and they do pretty well at staying back. Soderling for example as far as I know, rarely serves and volleys and he hits a monster serve.

It is something to try though, I've tried pinpoint maybe 10 times in the entire time I've played tennis. Might be a fun experiment! :razz:

-Fuji

 

[LeeD]

Well, don't forget what AshSmth says, you gotta hit a few, not one day, not 10 days to fully feel comfortable with the new motion.
I can do both, but platform takes away any chance I have of hitting forcing serves, so I go pinpoint for match play. I'm more accurate with platform, each and every single different serve.
But maybe it's time for a change, me being 63 and no push off the left foot.

 

[corbind]

Platform generally creates greater forward momentum. Pinpoint creates greater vertical momentum.

Cheers

Near info. Any idea why?

 

[PhrygianDominant]

Near info. Any idea why?

Yandell studied it and found it to be true. It stands to reason that you can jump higher with your legs together(pinpoint). What a lot of platform servers don't do that they should is keep the weight off their front foot for a bit longer, so they can transfer with the forward swing. I believe that's why the platform gets more forward momentum.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

Surprisingly that actually makes sense haha! Good point LeeD! I feel as though I should try and work transition to pinpoint, as I really haven't messed with it all that much.

-Fuji

Whenever I do pinpoint it ends up looking like the spring loaded serve. Also, I really can't hit topspin in that stance.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Near info. Any idea why?

basic mechanics - the direction of GRF changes with your feet in different positions.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Whenever I do pinpoint it ends up looking like the spring loaded serve. Also, I really can't hit topspin in that stance.

Don't see why you can't hit topspin with a spring-loaded stance. Are your driving your chest and back shoulder more upward rather than just bringing it around? Here the Serve Doctor talks a bit about hitting a 2nd serve with the spring-loaded serve:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88&t=3m48s

 

[JohnYandell]

PD,

The study comparing stances was done by Bruce Elliot. The flaw in my view was that he had servers who were pinpoint and servers that were platform and had them both do both and then compared the results.

Although pinpoint servers push off with the back foot later they tend to do it from the toe.

Platform guys really uncoil that back leg and my suspicion is that energy transfers into the hips and on up.

I've worked with quite a few high level players including Jeff Salzenstein converting them to platform. Jeff went on to hit 130mph first serves on the tour and is convinced the platform was superior. My experience has been the same at all levels, although obviously there are great servers who use the pinpoint.

In you look at video of pros you can't really find any clear correlations between stance and upward and forward thrust.
Some of each land near the baseline and some of each land well into the court--and there are different amounts of air.

Too many other factors--natural leg thrust, ball toss, etc to really make hard and fast science type conclusions. It's preference but I can say a lot of platform servers who master it are convinced it's the way to go.

 

[LeeD]

OTOH, lots of pinpoint users say pinpoint is the way to go.....
Just what is ...."better".
Some players need the accuracy of platform. Other players need the extra zip of pinpoint.

 

[rkelley]

I cant figure out what serve stance to use. I currently use the platform like fed and djok, but I find that I get mor power with the querry,isner,anderson,haas,mayer motion of stepping my right foot up to join my left one for a pinpoint stance. It gives me more time to get my legs bent and my whole body into the shot, The platform stance rushes me a little bit. What about the murray serve where he glides his feet together or the simon or wawrinka serve where they flex their body like a sling shot....Which one is techically the most efficient and effective use of the the muscles in the body to generate most power, spin etc....Biomechanically the best stance... The kinetic chain or whatever...you get what I mean

Thanks for your help guys!

I don't think it matters that much for power. Sampras also used platform, and he arguably had the best serve ever. Fed can hit a 130 mph from platform. I do believe that if my serves were hitting 130 (which they're not) that it would be enough pace to get the job done.

Seriously, I use platform because I feel like it's a simpler motion with less parts moving. My goal/hope/desire is that it translates into a more consistent toss and better location on my serves than I could get with a pinpont stance.

 

[JohnYandell]

LD,

Like I said, no way to prove it--accuracy or power or better or worse with one or the other. Just sharing my experience and veiwpoint.

 

[LeeD]

Personally, being the weakling I am, I see no reason to get lots of serves IN just so the opponent can T off on them.
I'd much rather get a few in, that force my opponent to defend, and use my second serve more often, which normally starts the point in a draw.

 

[JohnYandell]

OK then. I understand.

 

[NTRPolice]

I serve a lot harder with pinpoint, 10 mph, minimum.

The reason why ive been trying to convert to a platform serve is because I find im way more consistent and I have more variety of spins I can use.

The problem with my new serve is that I dont have the "big one" as consistently (if you can call it that) as I used to. Whenever I try to hit flat the serve is very erratic. I can be aiming it down the T and rip it out wide by complete accident.

With pinpoint I never had flat serve accuracy issues like I do with platform.
With platform I never have many consistency issues like I do with pinpoint.

Another thing to mention is that im pretty short. I really believe that a lot of my "consistency" issues are because my target over the net is a lot smaller than someone, let's say 5'10 or taller.

 

[2ndServe]

I've got to think that rec players are better off with platform especially ones with higher ball tosses. The best pinpoint servers usually had low tosses and great timing. I see a lot of foot faults in rec play from both but especially pinpoint.

 

[sansaephanh]

It really depends on the player. I have horrendous balance and found pinpoint to give me a rhythm that has me going through the ball so I can follow through where I want it. As for platform, I'm not very good at exploding into the ball when I need to get so many parts rotating so much more then my mental stability can contain. I tend to explode too much or too little and it messes with my arm swing orientation sometimes.

I've been trying to get into platform to really get a steady control oriented serve, but in all honesty I can't get my hips into it if i'm bending in platform. I also have to toss the ball a ton closer then me because I cant explode proper from platform.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

To me it seems like power can be achieved with a pltform but it requires more gym work and strength as the upper body rotation is difficult, Pinpoint gives more easy power. If you simply bend your legs drop yur hip into the court and let yourself rip up into the ball the serve just flies on you. When I try platform I guess I just am not strong enough to rotate up through the ball and uncoil my upper body. I am gonna make a statement her and say that if you have impeccable timing on the serve, then pinpoint is best, platform gives more control and lees can break down. Im gonna go for pinpoint and work on my toss and consistency as it has greater potential power than platform!