What should be the Masters level events?

[timnz]

(Note: This spread spawned from a thread about whether there should be a grass court Masters level event).

At the moment there are:

After Australian Open hard court season
--------------------------------------
Indian Wells

Miami

Before French Open clay court season
-------------------------------------
Monte Carlo

Rome

Madrid

After Wimbledon before US Open hardcourt season
-------------------------------------------------
Indianapolis

Montreal/Toronto (Montreal odd years, Toronto even years)

After US Open indoor season
---------------------------
Shanghai (this is actually outdoor hard).

Paris


My feeling is that if a Grass Court masters level is desired and the tour stilll wants to insist on only 9 Masters level events, then obviously one of the current ones has to go. My picks for the one to go is either Indian wells because though it is a great event there is another Masters event in the US the week after and Miami has the greater level of prestige (in the late 80's and early 90's it was called the '5th Grand Slam) OR Madrid. I say Madrid because Monte Carlo & Rome have established long traditions and you just don't need 3 Masters level events leading into Roland Garros. (Ask Nadal about over-playing leading into Roland Garros).

What are people's thoughts.

1/ Would they like to see a Masters level grass event

2/ If (1) is yes - where should it be held.

3/ What current Masters level event should be downgraded?

 

[joeri888]

1 Indoor hardcourt out (Paris) and replace it by carpet. Other one going should be IW or Madrid. I'd probably prefer IW to go. Move Miami to where IW is, move MC a week earlier, whole clay season a week earlier and Wimbledon a week later. You've got your solid grass season.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I think one of the CC masters should be eliminated. When you think about it, every other Masters "season" has only 2 events, 2 US MS post Australia, 2 NA MS events pre USO, and 2 indoors MS events post USO. So I'd demote Monte Carlo to 500 level. This would leave.

Indian Wells
Miami

Rome
Madrid

Grass Court (Halle or Queens)

Canada
Cincinatti

Shanghai
Paris

It would also make things more balanced, and take some weight from the clay masters events. Since 2 slams are played on HC, why shouldn't the majority of MS events be on HC.

 

[timnz]

Agree - but Monte Carlo should be preserved surely

I think one of the CC masters should be eliminated. When you think about it, every other Masters "season" has only 2 events, 2 US MS post Australia, 2 NA MS events pre USO, and 2 indoors MS events post USO. So I'd demote Monte Carlo to 500 level. This would leave.

Indian Wells
Miami

Rome
Madrid

Grass Court (Halle or Queens)

Canada
Cincinatti

Shanghai
Paris

It would also make things more balanced, and take some weight from the clay masters events. Since 2 slams are played on HC, why shouldn't the majority of MS events be on HC.

Monte Carlo was one of the Major events at the beginning of the 20th Century and has continued to be that way for over 100 years. Surely it is Madrid that should be downgraded.

What is your thinking behind the choice to downgrade Monte Carlo instead of Madrid?

Agree with joeri888 about indoor carpet though. Like to see 2 indoor carpet Masters level events before season end championship and season end championship going back to true indoor carpet.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

It's either way. Madrid's OK, but I chose Monte Carlo b/c it's in a smaller city. But maybe if they moved it to right before the French, since it's so close to France anyways (Monte Carlo is), they could get rid of Madrid instead of Monte Carlo. That's actually a better idea.

 

[timnz]

Grass Court Masters

As I said on the other thread - like the idea of a US Grasscourt Championship title as the Masters level event, just before Wimbledon. Not sure where it should be held though. Thought of Newport, but someone raised the very good point that Masters level events need to be in reasonably large cities to attract fans.

Would seem weird to have a Masters level event at Queens (which is in London) and then have Wimbledon (which is also in London) almost straight after.

 

[MarcRosset1992]

(Note: This spread spawned from a thread about whether there should be a grass court Masters level event).

At the moment there are:

After Australian Open hard court season
--------------------------------------
Indian Wells

Miami

Before French Open clay court season
-------------------------------------
Monte Carlo

Rome

Madrid

After Wimbledon before US Open hardcourt season
-------------------------------------------------
Indianapolis :?

Montreal/Toronto (Montreal odd years, Toronto even years)

After US Open indoor season
---------------------------
Shanghai (this is actually outdoor hard).

Paris


My feeling is that if a Grass Court masters level is desired and the tour stilll wants to insist on only 9 Masters level events, then obviously one of the current ones has to go. My picks for the one to go is either Indian wells because though it is a great event there is another Masters event in the US the week after and Miami has the greater level of prestige (in the late 80's and early 90's it was called the '5th Grand Slam) OR Madrid. I say Madrid because Monte Carlo & Rome have established long traditions and you just don't need 3 Masters level events leading into Roland Garros. (Ask Nadal about over-playing leading into Roland Garros).

What are people's thoughts.

1/ Would they like to see a Masters level grass event

2/ If (1) is yes - where should it be held.

3/ What current Masters level event should be downgraded?

Indianapolis is not a 1000 Event, I think

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I don't think they should put one in America. It's not like we need one. Plus the traveling from Europe to America, then back to Europe straight away would be too much, IMO. I think Halle's a good option if not Queens', especially since they lost Hamburg as a MS event in Germany.

 

[timnz]

Halle wins

I don't think they should put one in America. It's not like we need one. Plus the traveling from Europe to America, then back to Europe straight away would be too much, IMO. I think Halle's a good option if not Queens', especially since they lost Hamburg as a MS event in Germany.

As I wrote in the other thread, maybe some extra prestige could be given the event through a rename of Halle to 'Continential Europe Grasscourt Championship'. But anyway..... I think this is good.

As in the other thread I do like the idea of a 4 week grasscourt season leading up to Wimbledon but moving Roland Garros to a week earlier and Wimbledon to a week later.

 

[MarcRosset1992]

I don't think they should put one in America. It's not like we need one. Plus the traveling from Europe to America, then back to Europe straight away would be too much, IMO. I think Halle's a good option if not Queens', especially since they lost Hamburg as a MS event in Germany.

Neither Halle nor Queens have the facilities for a Masters event.

If one insists on a grass 1000 event, why not appeal to those with a little bit of nostalgy for the Jurassic era of tennis, and suggest the West Side Club in Forrest Hills, some time in July after Wimbledon and before the beginning of the North American HC season. The place could do with some refreshing and would need to fly in some ground staff.

The Philadelphia Cricket Club is another option in the US North East.

 

[MarcRosset1992]

anoher idea:

- Play Shangai after the AO

- keep IW

- keep Miami but move it on clay (North American variety) and move it by a week or 2

- keep Monte Carlo and Rome

- Have one grass court event in North America after Wimbledon (Forrest HIls or Philadelphia)

- keep the Rodgers Cup, and (if you have to) Cincy

- Have Paris and Madrid fight it out for an indoors event after the USO.

Solves several problems:
1. the gap between AO and IW
2. the ridiculous succession of 3 almost back-to-back clay-courts 1000's in the run-up to the FO
3. the grass court thing:???:
4. the status of Madrid and Paris, both of which are not that popular with anybody

Added benefit is that it would bring a more diverse tennis product to North American audiences at a time where that market is becoming dangerously under-penetrated with tennis.

Thoughts?

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

But what's the point of a grass court MS event post Wimbledon? I don't think it would serve it's purpose then, which would be to help prepare for Wimbledon.

And I don't think North America's under penetrated, particularly after Wimbledon with the US Open Series. Miami on clay? To save Monte Carlo? No way, though I agree w/ the premise of a MS event closer to Australia, not to put Miami on clay, which American people and players hate.

 

[MarcRosset1992]

But what's the point of a grass court MS event post Wimbledon? I don't think it would serve it's purpose then, which would be to help prepare for Wimbledon.

I am not sure I am following the logic; in that case what is the point of having IW after the AO?

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I get what you're saying. But I was thinking the whole point of adding the MS grass event would be so that players could get a good warm up before Wimbledon, against high level competition. That loses it's point when you put the MS event post Wimbledon. As I mentioned, I agree w/ the idea of maybe even putting a MS event pre Australia, to kick off the season. But for the purposes of this discussion, I was just lookin at a realistic way of fitting a grass MS event in pre Wimby.

 

[MarcRosset1992]

But what's the point of a grass court MS event post Wimbledon? I don't think it would serve it's purpose then, which would be to help prepare for Wimbledon.

And I don't think North America's under penetrated, particularly after Wimbledon with the US Open Series. Miami on clay? To save Monte Carlo? No way, though I agree w/ the premise of a MS event closer to Australia, not to put Miami on clay, which American people and players hate.

I don't think that American people hate clay at all. As a matter of fact there are lots of college programs and academies that are now putting more emphasis on clay for development tennis, and in some big tennis areas such as South Florida, numerous recreational clay facilities are being re-developed.

The professional tennis offering in North America is becoming very one-dimensional: mono-technique, mono-surface....There is a big risk that audiences will be getting bored and turning off.

 

[sh@de]

IMO one of the clay court masters should be replaced by a grass one. The only one worth taking out is Madrid due to its relatively large difference with RG (hence bad warm up for players) and also because MC and Rome have a longer tradition.

 

[tennisNoob78]

Might be a silly ques...but could the French open be moved 1 week earlier, and Wimbledon 1 week later to accomodate a Grass Masters tournament (with sufficient break)? Was this ever considered ?

 

[vandre]

anoher idea:

- Play Shangai after the AO

- keep IW

- keep Miami but move it on clay (North American variety) and move it by a week or 2

- keep Monte Carlo and Rome

- Have one grass court event in North America after Wimbledon (Forrest HIls or Philadelphia)

- keep the Rodgers Cup, and (if you have to) Cincy

- Have Paris and Madrid fight it out for an indoors event after the USO.

Solves several problems:
1. the gap between AO and IW
2. the ridiculous succession of 3 almost back-to-back clay-courts 1000's in the run-up to the FO
3. the grass court thing:???:
4. the status of Madrid and Paris, both of which are not that popular with anybody

Added benefit is that it would bring a more diverse tennis product to North American audiences at a time where that market is becoming dangerously under-penetrated with tennis.

Thoughts?

would you move miami a week or 2 earlier or later?

 

[asafi2]

Neither one of them want to move because they feel that one is more prestigious than the other...that is the reason why there arent any grass masters.

 

[MarcRosset1992]

would you move miami a week or 2 earlier or later?

Later. The back-to-back with IW would not work. Players would need some time to transition to clay b4 a major event like Miami 1000

 

[vandre]

Might be a silly ques...but could the French open be moved 1 week earlier, and Wimbledon 1 week later to accomodate a Grass Masters tournament (with sufficient break)? Was this ever considered ?

neither the fo or wimbledon will move. ever ever ever. they are both set in stone in that "since the beginning of time..." sort of way. there's been many ppl suggest that but the french and the british will fight for another hundred years before either of them moves their slam.

 

[vandre]

Later. The back-to-back with IW would not work. Players would need some time to transition to clay b4 a major event like Miami 1000

ok i got you!

 

[harrpau7]

I would go as follows.

Shanghai
Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte-Carlo
Rome
French Open
Hamburg
Wimbledon
Toronto
Cincinatti
US Open
Madrid
Paris
London

 

[Blinkism]

Take out Paris, no need for 2 big events in the same city. Replace it with a Moscow Masters on Carpet (meanwhile scrapping the Moscow 250 that happens anyways).

Take Madrid out completely and replace it's empty space with the Amsterdam Grass Masters either that or Indian Wells.