What to do in this doubles boring situation?

[toth]

What to do, if the opponents can every ball hit to my weak tennis partner ?
I play: serves, returns.
The rest is totally boring, they hit all balls to my tennis partner.
The problem is here not losing the match but boring double tennis.
Doubles placement could help - my partner schould stay at the net or at the near of the sideline - but he plays rather at the baseline in his usual place.
(Of cource is good to avoid this type of doubles tennis, but what if you are in this situation)

Thank you for your answer
Toth

 

[nyta2]

got to net, and work on poaching... if you're doing it right you're gonna get a workout.

 

[travlerajm]

Keep moving your positioning closer to where you can intercept the shots targeted at your partner. You may get passed on your other side into the open court, but it won’t be boring.

 

[10sbeast888]

play singles.

 

[toth]

got to net, and work on poaching... if you're doing it right you're gonna get a workout.

The problem is my opponents get only easy balls, it is very disadvantogous to poach

 

[toth]

Keep moving your positioning closer to where you can intercept the shots targeted at your partner. You may get passed on your other side into the open court, but it won’t be boring.

Even this plan depends on my team mate, unfortunately he stays to much in the middle in this circumstances

 

[10sbeast888]

The problem is my opponents get only easy balls, it is very disadvantogous to poach

when a player's volley is so bad, the opps will just hit there even directly to him.

teach him how to volley properly. my thread 'how to volley' should fix him in a couple of days to the point that he can at least stand ground.

this way the opps will be forced to hit down the middle, which then you can cover.

doubles is generally boring as shyt unless you get 4 players at the same level, otherwise that weakest link becomes the ball magnet.

 

[travlerajm]

Even this plan depends on my team mate, unfortunately he stays to much in the middle in this circumstances

That actually makes it easier. It means you don’t have to move over as far to intercept.

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

Have your partner get as close to the net as possible, like really close, and maybe he can block some back.

 

[toth]

That actually makes it easier. It means you don’t have to move over as far to intercept.

Ideally would be if i cover more court
If my team mate cover a lot of court, it is easier to hit the ball to him for my opponents
I dont want to hit my teammates ball

 

[toth]

Have your partner get as close to the net as possible, like really close, and maybe he can block some back.

Yes it would be good
But it depends ony partner, is it good for him or not.
He like to play at the background

 

[optic yellow]

What to do, if the opponents can every ball hit to my weak tennis partner ?
I play: serves, returns.
The rest is totally boring, they hit all balls to my tennis partner.
The problem is here not losing the match but boring double tennis.
Doubles placement could help - my partner schould stay at the net or at the near of the sideline - but he plays rather at the baseline in his usual place.
(Of cource is good to avoid this type of doubles tennis, but what if you are in this situation)

Thank you for your answer
Toth

Winner attempt every time.

 

[MGArchitect]

This is the same dilemma that occurs in mixed doubles. The answer to poach a lot when you are at net and be ready to cut anything off when you are at net - you will need to learn to read your opponent's strokes so you don't leave too early. If your partner is at net, have them stand close and block anything that comes near them. If they don't like to play the net, start with both back, and you should serve and volley and chip and charge so you can again take over the net. To make it less boring, you should be active. Even on points where you don't touch the ball, you should have moving back and forth, and up and down the court.

 

[nyta2]

The problem is my opponents get only easy balls, it is very disadvantogous to poach

yeah i get it... happens all the time in mx... if you stay back, you might as well sit down.... but at least it will challnege you (ie i like to taunt my opponents innto blasting me at net)... at least i'm in the action... not like we're going to win if i stay back...

 

[time_fly]

What to do, if the opponents can every ball hit to my weak tennis partner ?
I play: serves, returns.
The rest is totally boring, they hit all balls to my tennis partner.
The problem is here not losing the match but boring double tennis.
Doubles placement could help - my partner schould stay at the net or at the near of the sideline - but he plays rather at the baseline in his usual place.
(Of cource is good to avoid this type of doubles tennis, but what if you are in this situation)

Thank you for your answer
Toth

If they hit every ball to your partner every time, you know where the ball is going well in advance. If you're at the net, you should be picking a lot of these off. If they hit the ball to your partner even when he's at the net, have him stand 4' or less from the net so his chance of putting the ball away or forcing an error is higher. They might lob him, but now that ball is effectively coming to you instead.

Now, if you say that your opponents are hitting both alleys at will so that you can't even poach effectively then you may just be overmatched.

Play mixed doubles (assuming you're a guy, which it sounds like you are) and you can work on this a lot.

 

[Hit 'em clean]

Make plans to help as much as possible...

Use signals so you at least know where he's serving in the box (should be up the middle mostly) and to let him know if you are poaching, faking or staying. Being active super active at net to help as much as possible means communicating to your partner what your plans are

Emphasize with your partner that the most important job they have is not to win the point, but make sure your opponents have to hit another ball. Weaker players will tighten up and sometimes try to blast winners past opponent because they know they are being picked on. Remind them that they don't have to hit hard, but rather hit high deep lobs or, if they are capable, keep the ball low over the net and at the opponents feet or below the net as much as possible. If you can convince them that they just need to play a much easier shot (not winners, etc) that can keep you guys in the point and give you a better chance to help... that can take the pressure off your partner if they realize they don't have to do too much.

I've done this with partners getting exclusively singled out. I really emphasize you don't have to hit hard just keep making the opponent play from below the net. If they can't do that then lob city... I'd rather that ball go out deep on the lob then fall short by the service line or net. Hitting up the middle, don't get suckered into covering line or hitting down line shots all the time, hit crosscourt a lot, lobs, etc. anyway possible to survive to the next shot. Get them to focus on the things they can do to get the ball over and keep point as neutral as possible.

 

[Morch Us]

I play: serves, returns.

Looks like you really need to learn how to play at net. It seems like opponents are not feeling your presence at net, which just means you are lacking the skills at net, especially the key skill of how to move in doubles without ever touching the ball.

A key important factor in doubles is, DON"T try to change how your partner plays doubles..... learn how YOU play doubles with that partner . (There are MANY different ways to engage in a point and win a point in doubles.... a lot more ways than singles).

 

[Morch Us]

The problem is my opponents get only easy balls, it is very disadvantogous to poach

Why you think every poach is to volley out a winner? (or even to touch the ball)... infact 75% or more poaches or moves you make at net does not result in you even touching the ball, but it changes the way how your opponents play the game, and how you insert and contribute yourself into the point.

 

[Morch Us]

I dont want to hit my teammates ball

Your understanding of how doubles should be played may need to change.

The above is possibly an extreme example, but you get an idea. I am pretty sure your and your partners level difference is not this much (even if you think so... which many folks who start playing doubles do.. essentially overestimating their "doubles" capabilities compared to partners ).

 

[Roforot]

You need a different focus/goal.
What % of balls are they hitting crosscourt. I expect it is close to 100%.
Your goal is to get this closer to 60-70%.

So even if they hit winner 30-40% DTL you will have succeeded... however I doubt they will do this.

 

[socallefty]

Never play 2-back if one player is much weaker as the stronger player will not get a single ball. If he is a liability at the net missing easy shots or not putting away easy volleys, then park him close to the net and near the alley while you are prepared to cover a lot of court including lobs. When he is serving, I-formation is good if he is willing to serve from near the center line and quickly move to cover one side, but many weak players are unwilling to do that. In that case, play from a position closer to the middle at the net and try to poach a lot. Unfortunately if his serves and shots are weak, the opponents will successfully keep the ball away from you when he serves and returns.

 

[jhick]

The problem is my opponents get only easy balls, it is very disadvantogous to poach

Get a new doubles partner

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Why don't you work with your partner to improve his overall game- strokes,
positioning, strategy, placement, etc.? Then practice working as a team, not two
uncommunicative individuals.

 

[toth]

Looks like you really need to learn how to play at net. It seems like opponents are not feeling your presence at net, which just means you are lacking the skills at net, especially the key skill of how to move in doubles without ever touching the ball.

A key important factor in doubles is, DON"T try to change how your partner plays doubles..... learn how YOU play doubles with that partner . (There are MANY different ways to engage in a point and win a point in doubles.... a lot more ways than singles).

I have decent skills at the net i think
My opponents get easy balls

 

[Morch Us]

boring double tennis

In unbalanced doubles, as a more skilled player you are expected to make your presence feel a lot more than your partner. It really does not matter who actually hits more balls.

Your #1 job in ANY doubles is to "extract errors" from opponent, Hitting consistent and assertvie shots is only #2 job. You could theoretically do #1 without EVER touching a ball.

But ofcourse in practice when you do #1 properly, you may ALSO steal a lot of balls. Will have more impact on points than your partner (irrespective of who made the final error or winner.... irrespecitve of whether your team won or lost the point).
Also be aware that you may also make your partners life slightly more complicated leading him/her to cause more errors. But key is to recognize that some of these are your errors (even if the final error is from partner). And in the end, since you impact most of the points, as long as you make more good decisions than bad one's (i purposely did not say hit more good shots than bad shots)... your team will be on winning side.

See the finishing point of the above video at 2:47

Most players would see this as a mistake of the baseline "weak" player. But as Ian properly recognized, this was Ians mistake. Each partner is "expected" to execute at their skill level, and not at the "same level".

 

[toth]

Why you think every poach is to volley out a winner? (or even to touch the ball)... infact 75% or more poaches or moves you make at net does not result in you even touching the ball, but it changes the way how your opponents play the game, and how you insert and contribute yourself into the point.

But i am in a bad situation at the net if i strive hard to poach

 

[Morch Us]

But i am in a bad situation at the net if i strive hard to poach

Please watch Ian's video.

 

[Morch Us]

By the way, Ians video only shows one way to insert more skilled player more into the point. There are definitely a lot more other ways to be more impactful, even from baseline. Depends on your skills and your partners skills. But the general idea remains same. The more skilled player should impact more points. The less skilled player is "expected" to make more errors than he/she may have when the more skilled player try to impact more. But this also extracts more errors from opponents. Keep the balance enough for your team to come out ahead in the end.

 

[toth]

Please watch Ian's video.

I like this video
I will try Ian's idea
However i have doubts in my case, my partner is about 80, my opponents were in his twenties (i am 54)
I feel my opponents are anyway better than we are.
But try Ian's idea is better for sure than just wait what happens in the cross ralies.

 

[Purestriker]

But i am in a bad situation at the net if i strive hard to poach

What level is this?

 

[toth]

By the way, Ians video only shows one way to insert more skilled player more into the point. There are definitely a lot more other ways to be more impactful, even from baseline. Depends on your skills and your partners skills. But the general idea remains same. The more skilled player should impact more points. The less skilled player is "expected" to make more errors than he/she may have when the more skilled player try to impact more. But also extracts more errors from opponents. Keep the balance enough for your team to come out ahead in the end.

I think my weaker team mate schould have helped me with his positioning, this have not happened.
I asked him to stay closer to the sideline.

 

[toth]

What level is this?

My level could be about 4

 

[Purestriker]

I think my weaker team mate schould have helped me with his positioning, this have not happened.
I asked him to stay closer to the sideline.

Having him closer to the sideline makes it easier for your opponents to get easy points.

 

[Morch Us]

I think my weaker team mate schould have helped me with his positioning, this have not happened.
I asked him to stay closer to the sideline.

Absolutely NOT. A big NO on that approach. As a higher skilled player you have to make more adjustments. A less skilled player is expected to be less versatile.
Of course "slight" adjustments can be made. But saying outright that it is his issue is a big big mental block you have to get over with to even have any chance of success in unbalanced doubles.

 

[toth]

Having him closer to the sideline makes it easier for your opponents to get easy points.

Not really, i can care better of the big court than my partner of the midsize court

 

[toth]

Absolutely NOT. A big NO on that approach. As a higher skilled player you have to make more adjustments. A less skilled player is expected to be less versatile.
Of course "slight" adjustments can be made. But saying outright that it is his issue is a big big mental block you have to get over with to even have any chance of success in unbalanced doubles.

Yes but it makes me more difficoult
My opponent can care with the midsize court not decent
I can do anything he lose the point, he cant cover his court

 

[travlerajm]

When you are trapped at the net with a weaker partner at the baseline, there are two % places to stand, and neither are where the net player is conventionally taught to be.

If your partner is fielding a shot that you expect him to be able to play well enough to get it past the opposing net person, you should move forward and play very close to the net and very central (aka “dunker” position). The dunker position allows you to pressure the opposing baseliner. If you think your opponent is likely to lob, you might want to delay your forward movement to disguise your shift into the dunker spot.

Conversely, if you think your partner will play a weak shot, you should shift back well behind the service line and central (into “safety” position, named after the safety position in American football), ready to either defend or intercept the next ball. Deciding whether to shift into dunker or safety is not boring and requires advanced skills that can be developed with practice.

 

[toth]

Ian's partner did not covered the half of the court

 

[Purestriker]

Ian's partner did not covered the half of the court

No, but they were also not in the alley.

 

[Morch Us]

Yes but it makes me more difficoult

Isn't that the point? You are the better player.

 

[Morch Us]

he cant cover his court

Totally expected.... Again.... I think you should probably read all the points I said above and watch the video again to really understand this.

Again..... BOTH partners are NOT equal in unblanced doubles. They are not making "same amount" of adjustments. They are not making "same amount" of errors. They are not impacting same amount of points. They are not covering same amount of court. They are not hitting same amount of shots.

How different depends on multiple factors including "how much unbalanced" and what are the specific skills and preferences.

I bet in Ian's video, he made a lot more adjustments (than how he would have played in a balanced doubles). And his partner probably did not make ANY. Ofcourse there the doubles-skill-level difference was huge (Ian is a lot better doubles player than singles).

 

[Morch Us]

My level could be about 4

And your partner is a 3.0?

 

[toth]

And your partner is a 3.0?

I think yes

 

[Morch Us]

it makes me more difficoult

Let me see if I can convey the same message in a different way.

Let us say there were a total of 100 points.

situation#1. You were able to impact 10 points. You hit 10 winners and made 0 errors out of those 10 points you impacted. (of course since your partner is weak.... the rest of the 90 points you lost 60 of them)

situation#2. You were able to impact 90 points. You made 40 mistakes (either shot errors, positional mistakes, gave away space or anything like that to cause loss of point eventually). You hit 0 winners, but extracted 50 errors from opponents because of your impact.

Which is a winning scenario for your team?

Even though you made your (and possibly your partners) life difficult in scenario #2, isn't that still better for your team?

Of course in scenario#1 you will retain your "superior player" status, since you made no errors and hit 10 clean "wow" winners (and yes during beer time you can just blame your partner for making silly mistakes).
Unfortunately in scenario#2 if your team end up losing, you may lose your "superior player" status, since there is a chance that your lower level partner may think that you played bad, and cost the match.

Now of course my scnerios are probably "extreme" to convey the message. But I hope you get what I meant.

 

[travlerajm]

One way to look at doubles is that the team with the best player on the court should usually win, even when that team also has the weakest player on the court.

This is exemplified by statistics for mixed combo matches in usta. When a 4.5 male / 3.5 female team plays against a 4.0 / 4.0 team, the 4.5 / 3.5 team wins -62% of the time.

The key to winning with an unbalanced team is the stronger player must pro-actively impose his will on the action, rather than passively allowing the opponents to target the weaker partner.

 

[Purestriker]

One way to look at doubles is that the team with the best player on the court should usually win, even when that team also has the weakest player on the court.

This is exemplified by statistics for mixed combo matches in usta. When a 4.5 male / 3.5 female team plays against a 4.0 / 4.0 team, the 4.5 / 3.5 team wins -62% of the time.

The key to winning with an unbalanced team is the stronger player must pro-actively impose his will on the action, rather than passively allowing the opponents to target the weaker partner.

I can verify the stat in mixed.

 

[Morch Us]

The key to winning with an unbalanced team is the stronger player must pro-actively impose his will on the action, rather than passively allowing the opponents to target the weaker partner.

Well stated

 

[Roforot]

Let me see if I can convey the same message in a different way.

Let us say there were a total of 100 points.

situation#1. You were able to impact 10 points. You hit 10 winners and made 0 errors out of those 10 points you impacted. (of course since your partner is weak.... the rest of the 90 points you lost 60 of them)

situation#2. You were able to impact 90 points. You made 40 mistakes (either shot errors, positional mistakes, gave away space or anything like that to cause loss of point eventually). You hit 0 winners, but extracted 50 errors from opponents because of your impact.

Which is a winning scenario for your team?

Even though you made your (and possibly your partners) life difficult in scenario #2, isn't that still better for your team?

Of course in scenario#1 you will retain your "superior player" status, since you made no errors and hit 10 clean "wow" winners (and yes during beer time you can just blame your partner for making silly mistakes).
Unfortunately in scenario#2 if your team end up losing, you may lose your "superior player" status, since there is a chance that your lower level partner may think that you played bad, and cost the match.

Now of course my scnerios are probably "extreme" to convey the message. But I hope you get what I meant.

Situation 2 though is tough. You feel like a fool when they hit the ball down the open line especially since you're supposed to be the better play, but it is the necessary attitude to winning.

 

[MGArchitect]

When you are trapped at the net with a weaker partner at the baseline, there are two % places to stand, and neither are where the net player is conventionally taught to be.

If your partner is fielding a shot that you expect him to be able to play well enough to get it past the opposing net person, you should move forward and play very close to the net and very central (aka “dunker” position). The dunker position allows you to pressure the opposing baseliner. If you think your opponent is likely to lob, you might want to delay your forward movement to disguise your shift into the dunker spot.

Conversely, if you think your partner will play a weak shot, you should shift back well behind the service line and central (into “safety” position, named after the safety position in American football), ready to either defend or intercept the next ball. Deciding whether to shift into dunker or safety is not boring and requires advanced skills that can be developed with practice.

this is a really good summary of how to play with a weaker partner, or 1 up 1 back in general. On a long rally, you might go back and forth between both of these positions several times without even touching the ball. You might be gassed yourself, but you are forcing your opponents to play better shots and can extract errors just by being in the right place.

 

[travlerajm]

this is a really good summary of how to play with a weaker partner, or 1 up 1 back in general. On a long rally, you might go back and forth between both of these positions several times without even touching the ball. You might be gassed yourself, but you are forcing your opponents to play better shots and can extract errors just by being in the right place.

Exactly.

And the important corrolary is that this strategy of court movement patterns only applies to the stronger partner in an unbalanced team.

Having the weaker player do this would be dumb tennis. The weaker player needs to maintain very tight net-hugging position on any points where he starts at the net and DON’T BACK UP. Moving backward from there toward the service line makes the weaker player an easy target and takes the stronger partner out of the play, effectively committing team suicide.

The stronger partner can help his team by advising his partner to stay up tight on the net.