What to do when captain puts me with weak partners?

brettatk

Semi-Pro
What kind of league plays out the third set instead of a 10 pointer?
In my area, almost all USTA matches play out the 3rd set with exception of when you go to State/Sectionals/Nationals. It's in our rules that by default you play out the 3rd set but if all participants in the match agree to it before the match starts the 3rd set can be a TB. Although at times I've seen guys after splitting sets decide to just play the TB instead of playing it out.
 

Tennisguy102

New User
Because I overthink everything. I approach the game with a VERY analytical state of mind. I try to practice everything equally, therefore I have no weapon in particular except for change of pace and my many, many strategies
 

Tennisguy102

New User
And being young (plus having ADHD) my game is inconsistent. I could be on fire with my forehand for 15 minutes then not be able to hit one in at all the next.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Institute the Elo Rating System for singles tennis. Once you are rated, play doubles.

Institute the Elo Rating System for doubles tennis.
Average the ratings of doubles players. Win or loss in ratings points is multiplied twice and is divided equally among the winners, and taken from the losers.

My tennis Meetup has the Elo Rating System, but everyone else is playing in other places where:

The organizer arbitrarily divide groups.
Pick a card from a deck of cards.
First come first group.

I don't get it. I'm a chess player.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
To give you an idea of what a rating system look like, here is WWE SmackDown! Here Comes the Pain

OVERALL WRESTLER

91 Brock Lesnar
90 Goldberg
90 Triple H
89 Kurt Angle
87 The Rock
86 Chris Benoit
85 Chris Jericho
85 Steve Austin
85 Undertaker
84 Roddy Piper
83 Iron Shiek
83 Kevin Nash
82 Kane
81 Big Show
81 Booker T
81 Rob Van Dam
80 Scott Steiner
80 Shawn Michaels
79 Edge
78 Nicholai Volkoff
75 George Steele
75 John Cena
75 Ric Flair
74 Eddie Guerrero
74 Rey Mysterio
74 Rhyno
74 Test
73 Charlie Haas
73 Hillbilly Jim
73 Shelton Benjamin
72 A-Train
72 Batista
71 Rikishi
70 Lance Storm
70 Matt Hardy
70 Randy Orton
70 Ultimo Dragon
69 Bubba Ray Dudley
69 Christian
68 D-Von Dudley
68 Goldust
68 The Hurricane
67 Chavo Guerrero
65 Rodney Mack
65 Sean O'Haire
65 Tajiri
65 Val Venis
64 Vince McMahon
63 Rico
63 Steven Richards
52 Eric Bischoff
50 Jazz
50 Trish Stratus
49 Victoria
48 Lita
46 Stacy Keibler
46 Torrie Wilson
44 Sable
44 Stephanie McMahon
 
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samiam158

New User
What kind of league plays out the third set instead of a 10 pointer?
Our local league plays out a 3 set for The women’s. (Cause we’re awesome! And a little bit crazy!)
The seniors women and men and the mixed league all play 10 point tie breakers for the 3rd set.
 

enishi1357

Rookie
If you are not good enough to win with a weak partner then you are not good enough to win period. The expectation on you as the stronger player is to perform perfectly.

I had a match with a very weak partner but we still manage to win three games (keeping my own serve and breaking them two times). I wasn't playing well either. If you are very good the flow of the game changes with your every shot. You are probably not good enough so don't blame on the weaker player.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Last I checked, league tennis is a team sport.
I thought the main goal of playing organised sport is to actually "win".

In a team based sport, structuring the team to maximise the chance of winning actually increases the probability of "winning".

League Tennis is a team BASED sport, it isn't actually a team sport in the true sense of the word. If it was, the best player in the Doubles pairing could serve every Service game. Also, players could swap in and out during matches to maximise the chances of winning.

If you are not good enough to win with a weak partner then you are not good enough to win period. The expectation on you as the stronger player is to perform perfectly.

I had a match with a very weak partner but we still manage to win three games (keeping my own serve and breaking them two times). I wasn't playing well either. If you are very good the flow of the game changes with your every shot. You are probably not good enough so don't blame on the weaker player.
IMO, you are being a bit harsh. He is not the problem. His Captain is the problem. Obviously not a very good leader if he cannot identify this situation without having it pointed out to him. Or perhaps the Captain is focusing more on his own matches and winning himself.

Suggesting that a significantly stronger player should be responsible for carrying a significantly weaker player in Doubles shows a total lack of understanding of how the game is played at a truly competitive level.

You say you played with a very weak partner but still managed to win three games. Did you win the match?

@Tennisguy102 , you have every right to expect that you can play at a certain level and be paired with a partner who is at a similar level. If your Captain is unwilling or unable to accommodate you, start looking elsewhere for something more suitable. Sure, you might have to play with a weaker player every now and again. But playing with one week in, week out, will certainly hurt your game over the medium to long term if you are serious about playing tennis competitively.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I thought the main goal of playing organised sport is to actually "win".

In a team based sport, structuring the team to maximise the chance of winning actually increases the probability of "winning".

League Tennis is a team BASED sport, it isn't actually a team sport in the true sense of the word. If it was, the best player in the Doubles pairing could serve every Service game. Also, players could swap in and out during matches to maximise the chances of winning.



IMO, you are being a bit harsh. He is not the problem. His Captain is the problem. Obviously not a very good leader if he cannot identify this situation without having it pointed out to him. Or perhaps the Captain is focusing more on his own matches and winning himself.

Suggesting that a significantly stronger player should be responsible for carrying a significantly weaker player in Doubles shows a total lack of understanding of how the game is played at a truly competitive level.

You say you played with a very weak partner but still managed to win three games. Did you win the match?

@Tennisguy102 , you have every right to expect that you can play at a certain level and be paired with a partner who is at a similar level. If your Captain is unwilling or unable to accommodate you, start looking elsewhere for something more suitable. Sure, you might have to play with a weaker player every now and again. But playing with one week in, week out, will certainly hurt your game over the medium to long term if you are serious about playing tennis competitively.
You overlook the minor detail that you have to actually win matches to be considered good, you can't just think you are good and blame your partner when you lose.

Let's say you belong on court 1 and your captain doesn't know it so he puts you on 3 with someone who belongs on 3 against two people who belong on 3. You should win almost every match, and your opponents should complain to your captain about stacking and your partner will probably say something too.

Then you will get a shot on court 2 and you will probably win and your captain will be surely paying attention. Then you will become the first alternate when one of the established court 1 players can't make a match.

This is how you gain clout in the real world.

J
 

Captain Ron

Professional
You overlook the minor detail that you have to actually win matches to be considered good, you can't just think you are good and blame your partner when you lose.

Let's say you belong on court 1 and your captain doesn't know it so he puts you on 3 with someone who belongs on 3 against two people who belong on 3. You should win almost every match, and your opponents should complain to your captain about stacking and your partner will probably say something too.

Then you will get a shot on court 2 and you will probably win and your captain will be surely paying attention. Then you will become the first alternate when one of the established court 1 players can't make a match.

This is how you gain clout in the real world.

J
I thought this was TT ;)
 

DailyG&T

Rookie
MPO! I think it has less to do with skill level of you vs your partner, and more about playing with one consistent partner most of the time. It's great to be able to jump in and play with anyone and quickly adjust to their style etc, but for league it's great to have one person you gel with, get to know how each other play, anticipate each other's movement etc. I play with a doubles partner I LOVE and objectively you could say I'm the better player BUT we are each stronger when we play together and we now know each other well enough to fill in each other's gaps. In doubles you want to be moving well together and it's hard to develop that instantly if you're constantly changing partners. Your captain would probably really appreciate if you had at least 2 people on your team who aren't necessarily the highest ranked, but are people you feel comfortable with (and they like YOU too.) If your team practices or you play socially or even just warming up playing out points, try to be with that person as much as possible etc.
 

DailyG&T

Rookie
PS - to add, in my weekday league, my partner is in her 80s (!!) and if you see her walking (very slowly) from her car, you'd think, uh oh, I'd rather be partnered with some young and very fit hotshot, but man, do you learn stuff from playing tennis for SIXTY YEARS. This lady has amazing placement, patience, and anticipation. So don't make assumptions about people and if you bring negative energy to the court you could unintentionally be shutting down any potential good partnership with someone "worse" than you.
 

SouthernCourts

Semi-Pro
It's probably par for the course in an individual sport like tennis, but it always amazes me how few people understand the team concept in USTA league. You're part of a unit, you have a leader, and unless you want to be that leader yourself, your job is to fight as hard as you can in the position he puts you in. I would hate to have a player like OP on my team.
 

TangentZ

New User
Let's suppose Player C > Player B > Player A

A: Will you play with me Player B?
B: I only want to play with someone equal or stronger than me.
A: But I want to become better!
B: (...) Go away.

(C overheard the above exchange between A and B.)

B: Will you play with me Player C?
C: I also only want to play with someone equal or stronger than me.
B: But I want to become better!
C: That is what A said.

Bonus Question: Which player is the OP? ;)
 

badmice2

Semi-Pro
sounds to me like you would rather be carried than carrying someone. As a captain it goes to show that 1) you're not as strong as you think, and more importantly, 2) you have no heart.

I'm the opposite type of captain, where if you're as strong as you say you should be able to play with any and everyone given your skillset and knowledge of the game. More importantly, the perception of you whining shows that you cant take one for the team. I get it - it's recreational, but if you're taking it as seriously as you're coming across, you should understand the team concept in league play. Otherwise, stick to playing singles or go play tourney.
 

kylebarendrick

Professional
Every team has some weaker players. Captains need to get them into the line-up occasionally. One option is to pair them with another weak player and put them out as a sacrifice on line 1. That isn't any fun for anyone though. When I captain, I want to give everyone a reasonable chance to win. That means that my better players need to take a turn with a weaker player sometimes. I try not to do that very often.

It sounds to me like you got partnered with a weak player one week (fair enough) and with a normally good player that had a bad day the next (not your captain's fault unless they knew your partner wasn't up for the challenge that week). I wouldn't over think this one unless it happens again. As others have said, if you are good you should be able to win on D3 with almost anyone.
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
Where do these people come from? Is OP the same guy who wants to use two rackets?

Anyway, honest advice: if you haven't spoken with your captain, do so. But be respectful and willing to listen to him, if he has an explanation. This is just general life advice, by the way. Don't stew in your grievances, but also don't be confrontational. Hope you figure it out.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I thought the main goal of playing organised sport is to actually "win".

In a team based sport, structuring the team to maximise the chance of winning actually increases the probability of "winning".

League Tennis is a team BASED sport, it isn't actually a team sport in the true sense of the word. If it was, the best player in the Doubles pairing could serve every Service game. Also, players could swap in and out during matches to maximise the chances of winning.
The main goal of organized sport is to develop teamwork and sportsmanship. Winning is a secondary goal as it has no value to more important life endeavors such as work and family life. Teamwork and sportsmanship, however, can be valuable assets in real life interactions.

It is the Captain's job to structure the team to increase winning odds and foster teamwork. While it is fine to allow input from team players, the final decision must rest on someone and that should be the captain or delegate. Otherwise chaos ensues and no one wins anything. It is the player's jobs to foster winning attitudes and good play from all team members which they do so by encouraging others, not whining, being positive and playing their best.

if you view league tennis as an individual sport in which you play on a team, please tell me how that is more conducive to winning than a team of good sports and good team mates?
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
The main goal of organized sport is to develop teamwork and sportsmanship. Winning is a secondary goal as it has no value to more important life endeavors such as work and family life. Teamwork and sportsmanship, however, can be valuable assets in real life interactions.

It is the Captain's job to structure the team to increase winning odds and foster teamwork. While it is fine to allow input from team players, the final decision must rest on someone and that should be the captain or delegate. Otherwise chaos ensues and no one wins anything. It is the player's jobs to foster winning attitudes and good play from all team members which they do so by encouraging others, not whining, being positive and playing their best.

if you view league tennis as an individual sport in which you play on a team, please tell me how that is more conducive to winning than a team of good sports and good team mates?
Firstly, I respect your view that "work" and "family life" are more important life endeavours than "winning". But that view is being challenged in the 21st Century. I believe the previous generations' mindset that life was mostly about "work" and "family" has fuelled the view that "winning" is more important and of greater value than most things simply because "Everyone loves a winner!".

Modern society is "Dog Eat Dog". Competition in Life is greater than it has ever been. And while I despise that ideology, it is a key driver of modern life. In life there are both "winners" and "losers".

Hence, it is only natural that would extend into things that were previously seen as recreational pastimes like sport.

Anyway, you yourself say it is the Captain's job to structure the team to increase the winning odds! If one is not concerned about "winning" then that role would not be necessary.

Finally, I believe League Tennis is an individual sport because TENNIS is an individual sport. Otherwise, as I said earlier, if Tennis were truly a team sport, then in Doubles, the best player would serve all the Services games.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
You overlook the minor detail that you have to actually win matches to be considered good, you can't just think you are good and blame your partner when you lose.

J
OK. So you and I are playing Doubles together. You have a very good Serve and great volleying skills. Me, I'm a poor Server and wouldn't know how to volley a ball even if it was hanging from a string right in front of me.

We play a game. You make every first serve and draw a weak return that floats into my eyeline at the Net. Every volley I hit either goes into the net or goes out, Later in the match when it is my turn to serve, I Double fault at least two points every game and most other serves are returned with interest.

How is this situation getting you any closer to "winning" more matches? How is this situation an example of a competitive Team sport?
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
OK. So you and I are playing Doubles together. You have a very good Serve and great volleying skills. Me, I'm a poor Server and wouldn't know how to volley a ball even if it was hanging from a string right in front of me.

We play a game. You make every first serve and draw a weak return that floats into my eyeline at the Net. Every volley I hit either goes into the net or goes out, Later in the match when it is my turn to serve, I Double fault at least two points every game and most other serves are returned with interest.

How is this situation getting you any closer to "winning" more matches? How is this situation an example of a competitive Team sport?
I'm pretty good at mixed.

J
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Firstly, I respect your view that "work" and "family life" are more important life endeavours than "winning". But that view is being challenged in the 21st Century. I believe the previous generations' mindset that life was mostly about "work" and "family" has fuelled the view that "winning" is more important and of greater value than most things simply because "Everyone loves a winner!".

Modern society is "Dog Eat Dog". Competition in Life is greater than it has ever been. And while I despise that ideology, it is a key driver of modern life. In life there are both "winners" and "losers".

Hence, it is only natural that would extend into things that were previously seen as recreational pastimes like sport.

Anyway, you yourself say it is the Captain's job to structure the team to increase the winning odds! If one is not concerned about "winning" then that role would not be necessary.

Finally, I believe League Tennis is an individual sport because TENNIS is an individual sport. Otherwise, as I said earlier, if Tennis were truly a team sport, then in Doubles, the best player would serve all the Services games.
I’m not saying winning isn’t a noble goal. It’s just secondary to other life skills like sportsmanship and teamwork. I’m a member at a club where most members are successful winners at their jobs. They are mostly good sports and team players. Being able to lead and work with others is a major key to success.

The win at all costs guys don’t play tennis, are on their 3rd wives and think we are all impressed with their Lambo when we really just think they are a dick.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
The win at all costs guys don’t play tennis, are on their 3rd wives and think we are all impressed with their Lambo when we really just think they are a dick.
"Win at all costs" people aren't "winners" at all in my book.

But I do subscribe to Brad Gilbert's view that playing tennis and winning is a lot more fun than playing tennis and losing!

Of course, I play tennis to have fun but I can certainly relate to what Brad has said.

The irony of all of this is that most serious tennis players are a lot more miserable when they lose than they are happy when they win. So perhaps it is more about losing NOT being fun than winning being fun :)
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Let's suppose Player C > Player B > Player A

A: Will you play with me Player B?
B: I only want to play with someone equal or stronger than me.
A: But I want to become better!
B: (...) Go away.

(C overheard the above exchange between A and B.)

B: Will you play with me Player C?
C: I also only want to play with someone equal or stronger than me.
B: But I want to become better!
C: That is what A said.

Bonus Question: Which player is the OP? ;)
Elo Rating System. You win, your rating goes up, you play better players. You lose, your rating goes down, you play worse player. Perfectly fair. Mathematically, mechanically fair.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Elo Rating System. You win, your rating goes up, you play better players. You lose, your rating goes down, you play worse player. Perfectly fair. Mathematically, mechanically fair.
IMO, that system is not fair because it does not take into account the skill levels of each player.

Ratings should change depending on the performaces of the players, not just if they win or lose. In fact the best Rating systems do just that.

However, RANKING systems should be based purely on winning matches. So more matches a player wins, the greater the potential for their Ranking to climb higher (ie to move towards #1)
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
"Win at all costs" people aren't "winners" at all in my book.

But I do subscribe to Brad Gilbert's view that playing tennis and winning is a lot more fun than playing tennis and losing!

Of course, I play tennis to have fun but I can certainly relate to what Brad has said.

The irony of all of this is that most serious tennis players are a lot more miserable when they lose than they are happy when they win. So perhaps it is more about losing NOT being fun than winning being fun :)
I think we all like to win. But I really have the most fun winning when me and my team play well and I help lift my teammates to better play. Winning as a team is more fun than winning as an individual.

I think a lot of people gravitate to tennis for its individualistic nature and struggle with the team concept. That’s why I think leagues are good opportunities for tennis players to try to work as a team. Experienced doubles players understand this. Singles players struggle with these concepts and typically come and rant on this board about their terrible partners.

I watched the Laver Cup and it was fantastic to see tennis athletes relishing the chance to play as team mates and lift each other up. That is the heart of sport. Lifting up your mates so the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
 

coloskier

Legend
It's simple. Tell the captain that you won't play with certain people, and if he puts you with them, you won't play. Yes, you'll come off as a jerk, but if you are concerned about moving up to the next level, sometimes you have to be a jerk.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
It's simple. Tell the captain that you won't play with certain people, and if he puts you with them, you won't play. Yes, you'll come off as a jerk, but if you are concerned about moving up to the next level, sometimes you have to be a jerk.
Either that or take it as a personal challenge to carry the inferior player.
 

WhiteOut

Semi-Pro
Let's suppose Player C > Player B > Player A

A: Will you play with me Player B?
B: I only want to play with someone equal or stronger than me.
A: But I want to become better!
B: (...) Go away.

(C overheard the above exchange between A and B.)

B: Will you play with me Player C?
C: I also only want to play with someone equal or stronger than me.
B: But I want to become better!
C: That is what A said.

Bonus Question: Which player is the OP? ;)

This sounds like quite a 'team'...
 

WhiteOut

Semi-Pro
I think we all like to win. But I really have the most fun winning when me and my team play well and I help lift my teammates to better play.
THIS. I had a dubs match last week -- one of the most fun, highly competitive, action-filled matches I can recall in a loooong time...this match had everything. We lost in a match tie break 12-10 and all I can remember is 2-3 really cool winners, but overall I just remember it being FUN.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
It's simple. Tell the captain that you won't play with certain people, and if he puts you with them, you won't play. Yes, you'll come off as a jerk, but if you are concerned about moving up to the next level, sometimes you have to be a jerk.
A 4.0 third doubles player with a losing record is usually not in a position to be making demands.

J
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
THIS. I had a dubs match last week -- one of the most fun, highly competitive, action-filled matches I can recall in a loooong time...this match had everything. We lost in a match tie break 12-10 and all I can remember is 2-3 really cool winners, but overall I just remember it being FUN.
A real USTA veteran would have known to hook at 9-9.

J
 

MisterP

Hall of Fame
Not all captains are created equal. Some of them have no clue how to create a roster or set a lineup. It goes both ways.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I play in a 4.0 mens league and for the last two matches my captain put me with two inferior partners who cost us the matches both times. I'm one of the stronger players on the team and I prefer playing with partners who are equal or stronger than me, I cant stand being made to 'carry' weak people like a pack horse. What do I do? Should I make a request to my captain or just bow out of all future matches? Any suggestions?
Do you know for a fact there are players that are equal or Better than you on the team ?? If so, tell the captain, you would rather play with one of the stronger guys on the team. But you will have to play #1 spot or at the very least #2 spot. Usually when I put strong player with Weak player, it is at #3 doubles spot. if you are being put in at #1 spot with one of the weakest player on the team,, then there is something wrong with that picture. but is that what is happening with your situation ?
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Not all captains are created equal. Some of them have no clue how to create a roster or set a lineup. It goes both ways.
And not all nfl coaches are Bill Belichek. You still have to listen to them and abide by their rules. If you think you can do a better job than your captain, then captain a team.

I think disrespecting someone that is doing this kind of work for free is pretty callous. If you think he’s doing a lousy job offer to help him out. Gain his respect then offer your input. Don’t just whine about what a lousy captain you have. It’s already a thankless job.
 

MisterP

Hall of Fame
And not all nfl coaches are Bill Belichek. You still have to listen to them and abide by their rules. If you think you can do a better job than your captain, then captain a team.

I think disrespecting someone that is doing this kind of work for free is pretty callous. If you think he’s doing a lousy job offer to help him out. Gain his respect then offer your input. Don’t just whine about what a lousy captain you have. It’s already a thankless job.
Not disagreeing! You're preaching to the choir. Still, sometimes you get caught off guard with a new captain that you don't know. Lesson learned. Captaining is definitely not for everyone.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
If you are not good enough to win with a weak partner then you are not good enough to win period. The expectation on you as the stronger player is to perform perfectly.

I had a match with a very weak partner but we still manage to win three games (keeping my own serve and breaking them two times). I wasn't playing well either. If you are very good the flow of the game changes with your every shot. You are probably not good enough so don't blame on the weaker player.
I think if the better player hogs the ball then yes but it might seem rude.
 
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