What was the main reason why Djokovic lost 6 of 7 matches vs. Nadal in 2012-13?

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2012 Monte Carlo L
2012 Rome L
2012 Roland Garros L
2013 Monte Carlo W
2013 Roland Garros L
2013 Canada L
2013 US Open L

Nadal's forehand-down-the-line made a resurgence in 2012-13.
Whereas in 2011 (and 2012 AO) it was mostly cross-court Nadal, which was only good enough to beat Murray etc.
 
tennis_error said:
Damn... Another clay skewed stats... Lol...
5/7 played on clay... Five in a row...Some things never change... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
In his 7-0 run in 2011-12 he was 2-0 on clay and 4-0 in sets and 4-0 on HC, while in the 7 matches afterwards he was 1-4 on clay and 0-2 on HC so the question about what changed is absolutely legit. Nothing to do with clay skew (which seems to be a favourite topic around here).
 
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Nadal was tanking in 2011 to raise the interest in the ATP Tour. After WHUPPING Feddy for the better part of 5 years people got BORED and Nadal was quietly asked to boost a new rival by the ATP. In return, the ATP promised to change the hard courts to be MOLASSES slow.

Sounds like a GOOD deal to me.
 
thepaint19 said:
2012 Monte Carlo L
2012 Rome L
2012 Roland Garros L
2013 Monte Carlo W
2013 Roland Garros L
2013 Canada L
2013 US Open L

Nadal's forehand-down-the-line made a resurgence in 2012-13.
Whereas in 2011 (and 2012 AO) it was mostly cross-court Nadal, which was only good enough to beat Murray etc.
Click to expand...
Although he lost that epic 2012 AO final Nadal regained the belief that he could beat Nole.
 
Third Serve said:
Clay does increase the chances of a Nadal win though, those two matches notwithstanding. If they had met at RG 2011, I don’t think it would have helped Djokovic’s chances at continuing that undefeated streak.
Click to expand...
Possibly, not sure if likely. Anywho, given that Djoko went from 4-0 to 0-2 on hard I think that your points 2 and 3 were much more the reason than matches on clay.
 
I hope Nadal would have the advantage on clay which is what most of those matches were played on LOL. Us open obviously Nadal was in peak form all North American HC swing. But. That was the last time he beat Djoker off clay as well. Nole has completely owned him since
 
2012-14 was a bad three-yr for Djokovic, only 3 majors. That was why he needed Boris Becker at end of 2013.

At end of '12 AO, Djokovic needed a new game plan, he could not afford to bash at the ball and expect a long career.

Since '14, Djokovic had 2 three-major seasons; no one else had even one! So I guess his transition has worked!
 
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tennis_error said:
Damn... Another clay skewed stats... Lol...
5/7 played on clay... Five in a row...Some things never change... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
They will never change. The rafans. Entire decade I have seen these skewed results time after time. Tennis should also give weightage to competition. Rafael Nadal always becomes a lion on clay but a house cat in the presence of Novak outside clay.
 
Third Serve said:
Clay does increase the chances of a Nadal win though, those two matches notwithstanding. If they had met at RG 2011, I don’t think it would have helped Djokovic’s chances at continuing that undefeated streak.
Click to expand...

Why? Djokovic matches Nadal physically on clay, and had earned the mental advantage with 4 straights wins in the finals of IW, Miami, Madrid, and Rome. Nole had never beaten Rafa in a final before 2011.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
In his 7-0 run in 2011-12 he was 2-0 on clay and 4-0 in sets and 4-0 on HC, while in the 7 matches afterwards he was 1-4 on clay and 0-2 on HC so the question about what changed is absolutely legit. Nothing to do with clay skew (which seems to be a favourite topic around here).
Click to expand...
Where OP asked what changed? He asked simply why Nadal had so many wins. Simply, they played 5/7 on clay. Off course that's not the only reason, but the most important...
 
thepaint19 said:
2012 Monte Carlo L
2012 Rome L
2012 Roland Garros L
2013 Monte Carlo W
2013 Roland Garros L
2013 Canada L
2013 US Open L

Nadal's forehand-down-the-line made a resurgence in 2012-13.
Whereas in 2011 (and 2012 AO) it was mostly cross-court Nadal, which was only good enough to beat Murray etc.
Click to expand...
Rafa is a master strategist - Looks like he employed the same playbook that worked to dethrone Federer.
Step 1: loose at non-clay GS early to be well rested.
Step 2: face djokovic (Federer) on clay to build up confidence
step 3: wait until djokovic (Federer) shows signs of weaknesses at GS. Djokovic (Federer) lost to Murray (djokovic) at WC 13 (AO 08)
Step 4: Face Djokovic (Federer) at a non-clay slam when they are tired. djokovic (Federer) played 14 (17) GS semi-finals/finals in a row until he faced nadal at the USOpen13 (WC08)
Step 5: profit
 
Why?

Clay - Order restored
HC - Rafa peak/GOAT

They are the best ATP rivalry to me, better than the overhyped Fed vs Rafa and Peter vs Andrea.
 
Kralingen said:
Nadal was tanking in 2011 to raise the interest in the ATP Tour. After WHUPPING Feddy for the better part of 5 years people got BORED and Nadal was quietly asked to boost a new rival by the ATP. In return, the ATP promised to change the hard courts to be MOLASSES slow.

Sounds like a GOOD deal to me.
Click to expand...
Fakeness of the ATP (3)
 
nachiket nolefam said:
They will never change. The rafans. Entire decade I have seen these skewed results time after time. Tennis should also give weightage to competition. Rafael Nadal always becomes a lion on clay but a house cat in the presence of Novak outside clay.
Click to expand...
that’s why rafa leads your idol 2>1 at the open and 4>3 in titles, where was djokovic in 2017/2019 uso finals to take his beating? Try again bud
 
fedfan24 said:
that’s why rafa leads your idol 2>1 at the open and 4>3 in titles, where was djokovic in 2017/2019 uso finals to take his beating? Try again bud
Click to expand...

You guys who keep saying 2>1 and 4>3 do realise it’s a stat that requires just one USO final between the 2 to get sorted as 2=2 and 4=4, lol. The most loosely hanging stat ever
 
mahatma said:
You guys who keep saying 2>1 and 4>3 do realise it’s a stat that requires just one USO final between the 2 to get sorted as 2=2 and 4=4, lol. The most loosely hanging stat ever
Click to expand...
hope so! nadal has higher peak and h2h lead so 3>1 bud sounds even better :whistle:
 
tennis_error said:
Where OP asked what changed? He asked simply why Nadal had so many wins. Simply, they played 5/7 on clay. Off course that's not the only reason, but the most important...
Click to expand...
The title asks what the reason was that Nadal won 6 out of 7 and then the OP compares 2012-14 with 2011-12, so this pretty much means asking “what has changed in this rivalry” such that tables were turned.
 
duaneeo said:
Not really a reason. There's nothing about Nole's physical game that puts him at a disadvantage vs Nadal on clay, so once he reached his peak, each clay matchup vs Rafa was winnable.
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Who said his physical game was ever the reason he's been dominated by Ned on clay (at the FO in particular)? That's the biggest misunderstanding, imo, about Novak's struggle on the dirt (compared to the other majors), he simply doesn't hit heavy enough for the BO5 format.
 
Kralingen said:
Nadal was tanking in 2011 to raise the interest in the ATP Tour. After WHUPPING Feddy for the better part of 5 years people got BORED and Nadal was quietly asked to boost a new rival by the ATP. In return, the ATP promised to change the hard courts to be MOLASSES slow.

Sounds like a GOOD deal to me.
Click to expand...
Sounds like BS to me.
 
mahatma said:
You guys who keep saying 2>1 and 4>3 do realise it’s a stat that requires just one USO final between the 2 to get sorted as 2=2 and 4=4, lol. The most loosely hanging stat ever
Click to expand...
Exactly. Notice how they never bring up 10 vs 2 AO or 7 vs 2 Wimbledon. Fact is Djokovic dominates Nadal at 2 majors. Nadal dominates Djokovic at RG. However, at us open, Rafa only edges Djokovic.

Across all the majors though it’s only RG you can clearly say Nadal is a lot better than Novak. Us open is still very close and Novak has more finals and better win percentage there.
 
Just a reminder, Djokovic beat Nadal in straight sets at 2011 Rome and 2011 Madrid.
In fact Nadal took sets from Djokovic at 2011 Indian Wells, 2011 Miami, 2011 Wimbledon, 2011 US Open and 2012 AO.
So Djokovic dominated Nadal more on clay than any other surface in 2011.
So surface definitely was not the reason why 2012-13 was so different to 2011.
 
thepaint19 said:
Just a reminder, Djokovic beat Nadal in straight sets at 2011 Rome and 2011 Madrid.
In fact Nadal took sets from Djokovic at 2011 Indian Wells, 2011 Miami, 2011 Wimbledon, 2011 US Open and 2012 AO.
So Djokovic dominated Nadal more on clay than any other surface in 2011.
So surface definitely was not the reason why 2012-13 was so different to 2011.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t as I also mentioned. Just maybe the only slight remark that Wimbledon, USO and AO were best of five so you cannot really compare. Had they played the FO 2011, Nadal would at the very least have won a set. Anyways you are right that Miami and IW was also way closer than their clay matches in 2011. I guess at that point Djokovic was already in his head.
 
Not really sure why Djokobotlike folk are complaining about 4 of these matches being on clay, it basically perfectly mirrors 4 from Djoker’s IW-AO12 streak being on hard court. Djoker was also not in a place to beat Nadal at IW or Cincy in 2013, his form was patchy in Bo3 that year.

Was clear that in their primes each could beat the other on their best surface and get some wins on the other guy’s best surface but everyone gets really stressed about this
 
fedfan24 said:
that’s why rafa leads your idol 2>1 at the open and 4>3 in titles, where was djokovic in 2017/2019 uso finals to take his beating? Try again bud
Click to expand...
I don't need to try again. These cheap titles from 2017 to 2019 doesn't make clay court champ better than hc goat. Why does Rafa duck Nole all the time. Why is he always afraid. Nole played him 9 times at RG now. Why is there so much fear from Rafa.
 
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