What went wrong on the 2 MPs for Federer?

MP #1:

Federer kicks a second serve out wide, which Djokovic manages to return straight at him. He then stabs a FH out wide. I think this was just a matter of luck with Djok’s return going so close to him. And even if the next shot went to plan and hit the line, it was anyone’s point if that ball dropped in as Djok was already covering that side. Can’t complain too much with that one.

MP #2:

The serve was pretty lousy. Did nerves play a part? It was a couple of feet inside the T and a very comfortable return for Djokovic on his FH side. Federer goes straight in for the kill on his second shot and sends a forehand up the line and approaches the net but again he goes nowhere near the line with the shot and leaves Djokovic in a comfortable position with options for the passing shot from the baseline.

I think the serve selection was wrong here. Djokovic was in front of the royal box where the sun was still only covering 2 thirds where the serve out wide would have put him into the shade and on his backhand. We’ll never know but there’s every chance that ball doesn’t come back if he goes out wide. Djokovic was standing in the sun and there’s every chance that getting him in and out of the sun would have upset his shot making there - trying to use every advantage you have.

And finally on that match point. Maybe I’m on my own with this one? With Djokovic’s passing shot to save the 2nd MP, does it look like Federer thinks it’s going wide? Could he have got to that? I really think there’s a chance if he reacts a half a second quicker that he cushions that in for a relatively easy winner. Maybe not even if he’s quicker, but if he just decides to go for it at all. Maybe I’m being too critical there.

What should Fed have done differently on either of these serves in your opinion?

Also something amusing I noticed:

The point and shot that saved the second match point for Djokovic? Almost the exact same point reversed (the last 2 shots anyway) that won the break for Federer in the previous game.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
MP #1:

Federer kicks a second serve out wide, which Djokovic manages to return straight at him. He then stabs a FH out wide. I think this was just a matter of luck with Djok’s return going so close to him. And even if the next shot went to plan and hit the line, it was anyone’s point if that ball dropped in as Djok was already covering that side. Can’t complain too much with that one.

MP #2:

The serve was pretty lousy. Did nerves play a part? It was a couple of feet inside the T and a very comfortable return for Djokovic on his FH side. Federer goes straight in for the kill on his second shot and sends a forehand up the line and approaches the net but again he goes nowhere near the line with the shot and leaves Djokovic in a comfortable position with options for the passing shot from the baseline.

I think the serve selection was wrong here. Djokovic was in front of the royal box where the sun was still only covering 2 thirds where the serve out wide would have put him into the shade and on his backhand. We’ll never know but there’s every chance that ball doesn’t come back if he goes out wide. Djokovic was standing in the sun and there’s every chance that getting him in and out of the sun would have upset his shot making there - trying to use every advantage you have.

And finally on that match point. Maybe I’m on my own with this one? With Djokovic’s passing shot to save the 2nd MP, does it look like Federer thinks it’s going wide? Could he have got to that? I really think there’s a chance if he reacts a half a second quicker that he cushions that in for a relatively easy winner. Maybe not even if he’s quicker, but if he just decides to go for it at all. Maybe I’m being too critical there.

What should Fed have done differently on either of these serves in your opinion?

Also something amusing I noticed:

The point and shot that saved the second match point for Djokovic? Almost the exact same point reversed (the last 2 shots anyway) that won the break for Federer in the previous game.
The second MP at USO’11 was brought up in my mind on MP #1 today. Back then, fedr hit a nice jammer serve that Joe Kovic mishit on his return to set up what fedr would normally routine to the open deuce court for GSM. However, the funky bounce from the mishit threw fedr off just that little bit that he netcorded his approach and the tight USO cord caromed the ball wide.

I love that fedr didn’t cave after the break today, taking it all the way to the TB. That was not the case in 2011, when it was all one-way traffic after the fail.
 

Fed881981

Hall of Fame
MP #1:

Federer kicks a second serve out wide, which Djokovic manages to return straight at him. He then stabs a FH out wide. I think this was just a matter of luck with Djok’s return going so close to him. And even if the next shot went to plan and hit the line, it was anyone’s point if that ball dropped in as Djok was already covering that side. Can’t complain too much with that one.

MP #2:

The serve was pretty lousy. Did nerves play a part? It was a couple of feet inside the T and a very comfortable return for Djokovic on his FH side. Federer goes straight in for the kill on his second shot and sends a forehand up the line and approaches the net but again he goes nowhere near the line with the shot and leaves Djokovic in a comfortable position with options for the passing shot from the baseline.

I think the serve selection was wrong here. Djokovic was in front of the royal box where the sun was still only covering 2 thirds where the serve out wide would have put him into the shade and on his backhand. We’ll never know but there’s every chance that ball doesn’t come back if he goes out wide. Djokovic was standing in the sun and there’s every chance that getting him in and out of the sun would have upset his shot making there - trying to use every advantage you have.

And finally on that match point. Maybe I’m on my own with this one? With Djokovic’s passing shot to save the 2nd MP, does it look like Federer thinks it’s going wide? Could he have got to that? I really think there’s a chance if he reacts a half a second quicker that he cushions that in for a relatively easy winner. Maybe not even if he’s quicker, but if he just decides to go for it at all. Maybe I’m being too critical there.

What should Fed have done differently on either of these serves in your opinion?

Also something amusing I noticed:

The point and shot that saved the second match point for Djokovic? Almost the exact same point reversed (the last 2 shots anyway) that won the break for Federer in the previous game.
On MP#2, Fed shouldn’t have let it go. I thought that he would attack it. He was too too cautious.

That cost him the title.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
What went wrong? Some stupid Federer fan screamed out - "Come on, Roger!" just as Federer was beginning his service motion on the first match point. Federer then dumped the serve into the net and ended up losing the match. That fan lost the match for Federer! :mad:
Hey good to see you back. After a loong time, i think !
 

roysid

Hall of Fame
Some great first serves down the T. Or serve volley.

Doesnt matter. We cannot go back in time and change that
 

Feather

Legend
Federer has developed a remarkably bad habit of holding 2 match points against Djokovic and going on to lose the match eg. 2010 US Open, 2011 US Open and now 2019 Wimbledon.
He faced a break point while serving out the match against Rafa Nadal. Rafa sensed Roger is in pressure and was desperately trying to break back. The thing is, with Novak Djokovic, he faces the pressure of return.
 

Halba

Hall of Fame
Federer has developed a remarkably bad habit of holding 2 match points against Djokovic and going on to lose the match eg. 2010 US Open, 2011 US Open and now 2019 Wimbledon.
so fed's dusted 6 match balls, and 3 grand slams effectively, plus more from the mental affect of that.
 

Desertman

Hall of Fame
MP #1:

Federer kicks a second serve out wide, which Djokovic manages to return straight at him. He then stabs a FH out wide. I think this was just a matter of luck with Djok’s return going so close to him. And even if the next shot went to plan and hit the line, it was anyone’s point if that ball dropped in as Djok was already covering that side. Can’t complain too much with that one.

MP #2:

The serve was pretty lousy. Did nerves play a part? It was a couple of feet inside the T and a very comfortable return for Djokovic on his FH side. Federer goes straight in for the kill on his second shot and sends a forehand up the line and approaches the net but again he goes nowhere near the line with the shot and leaves Djokovic in a comfortable position with options for the passing shot from the baseline.

I think the serve selection was wrong here. Djokovic was in front of the royal box where the sun was still only covering 2 thirds where the serve out wide would have put him into the shade and on his backhand. We’ll never know but there’s every chance that ball doesn’t come back if he goes out wide. Djokovic was standing in the sun and there’s every chance that getting him in and out of the sun would have upset his shot making there - trying to use every advantage you have.

And finally on that match point. Maybe I’m on my own with this one? With Djokovic’s passing shot to save the 2nd MP, does it look like Federer thinks it’s going wide? Could he have got to that? I really think there’s a chance if he reacts a half a second quicker that he cushions that in for a relatively easy winner. Maybe not even if he’s quicker, but if he just decides to go for it at all. Maybe I’m being too critical there.

What should Fed have done differently on either of these serves in your opinion?

Also something amusing I noticed:

The point and shot that saved the second match point for Djokovic? Almost the exact same point reversed (the last 2 shots anyway) that won the break for Federer in the previous game.
What went wrong? Well, I may be going out on a limb here but I'd say what went wrong was that he lost them!
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Federer has developed a remarkably bad habit of holding 2 match points against Djokovic and going on to lose the match eg. 2010 US Open, 2011 US Open and now 2019 Wimbledon.
It’s much easier to document blown MP/CPs than converted MP/CPs. They also remain more vivid but fedr has obviously converted 22 MP/CPs vs Joe Kovic. I have no idea how many have occurred at 40-15 or at 40-30 after losing a first MP/CP.
 

threehandedbackhand

Hall of Fame
Very unusual thing is that both players copied the same pattern of errors and shot selection in subsequent games.

See below.

5th set, game #15, Djokovic to serve
7:7 30-30

and then...
N1 poor serve and UFE (out, ad sideline)
N2 poor serve, FH to deuce court
and
N3 bad reaction to long cross-court ball, no volley: racqet down

(4 minutes later)

5th set, game #16, Federer to serve
8:7 40-15

and then...
R1 poor serve and UFE (out, ad sideline) [compare N1!]
R2
poor serve, FH to deuce court [compare N2!]
and
R3 bad reaction to long cross-court ball, no volley: racqet down [compare N3!]

N3 and R3 are literally THE SAME



I must admit that similarity is a bit puzzling...
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
It’s much easier to document blown MP/CPs than converted MP/CPs. They also remain more vivid but fedr has obviously converted 22 MP/CPs vs Joe Kovic. I have no idea how many have occurred at 40-15 or at 40-30 after losing a first MP/CP.
This had to be one of Fed's greatest serving days ever. Going up against the GOAT returner, Fed barely had any break points on his serve in the first 4 sets. Unbelievable serving.

Djok also served well and hit so many big serves to save critical break points throughout the match.

This looks to be the first time ever in a men's Slam final that a player failed to convert double Match Point. Unfortunate as those two match points completely overshadows Fed's overall great serving performance... OTOH, a GOAT server needs to close it out at 40-15. Fed got tight there and deserves the criticism for blowing those match points with tentative serving. He needed to hit 4 first serves at 40-15.
 
Last edited:

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
Federer choked plain and simple. I don’t know how he was so out of position at 40-15 on that return. Stupid strategy to come forward at 40-30. Misses a first serve on deuce. Leaves a short ball in the middle with the backhand. That had to be nerves. He couldn’t hit it cleanly?
 

muddlehead

Semi-Pro
I'm thinking second MP ad court Fed wishes he had hit his approach either much wider FH side - or, my preference, easy to say now, a straight at him down the middle jammer. What went wrong was the eventual 4.0 rec league approach shot which amounted to a batting practice pitch to Henry Aaron.
 

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
RF should of try for aces at matchpoint! He had two chances for each matchpoint opportunity. But he wimped out with a second serve! LOL! That why he lost!
 

Rina

Professional
What happened was that Fed hit the ball out, probably because he was a bit hesitant on it, and then Djokovic hit a great cross court on the line.
And imo, Federer looked BORED on the deuce. Like, oh, well, and shank the ball in the net. Was Novak's ball a hard one? Maybe, it just looked like Fed was playing that point without any energy.
 

Nabs

New User
He looked very very casual.

I think Fed has thought a lot about those two previous matches. Maybe he even saw a sports psychologist. I think he was trying hard not to think too hard about each point. It didn't work.
 
This had to be one of Fed's greatest serving days ever. Going up against the GOAT returner, Fed barely had any break points on his serve in the first 4 sets. Unbelievable serving.

Djok also served well and hit so many big serves to save critical break points throughout the match.

This looks to be the first time ever in a men's Slam final that a player failed to convert double Match Point. Unfortunate as those two match points completely overshadows Fed's overall great serving performance... OTOH, a GOAT server needs to close it out at 40-15. Fed got tight there and deserves the criticism for blowing those match points with tentative serving. He needed to hit 4 first serves at 40-15.
You guys are absolutely brutal.
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
What went wrong? Some stupid Federer fan screamed out - "Come on, Roger!" just as Federer was beginning his service motion on the first match point. Federer then dumped the serve into the net and ended up losing the match. That fan lost the match for Federer! :mad:
I dunno if it really costed him the match but those "c'mon Roger!" fans were so annoying for me. They kept saying it after every point. I understand being excited or invested but what do these guys think theyre doing, offering encouragement? They should understand theyre a spectator, and shouldnt try to make attempts to change the outcome of the match. If it were me, that would get in my head. Fans are asking to "c'mon", cant they just let the game play out? Maybe Federer doesnt mind, but I would go crazy.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
He looked very very casual.

I think Fed has thought a lot about those two previous matches. Maybe he even saw a sports psychologist. I think he was trying hard not to think too hard about each point. It didn't work.
I agree completely. In trying "not to think about" those matches, he was actually thinking about them. He was trying to rush through those points so he could avoid thinking which is missing the whole point.
What he needed to do was not avoid or rush through those points but mentally get completely into the moment, into the point he was about to play so there is no space for any other thought. There is a difference. I wish someone had told him.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
Can you imagine Sampras up 40-15 at Wimbledon and not closing it out? Nope. Not even against Agassi's great return.
We would know if Sampras played till he was 38 instead of retiring at 28 when the next generation came along and started beating him.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
What happened was that Fed hit the ball out, probably because he was a bit hesitant on it, and then Djokovic hit a great cross court on the line.
And imo, Federer looked BORED on the deuce. Like, oh, well, and shank the ball in the net. Was Novak's ball a hard one? Maybe, it just looked like Fed was playing that point without any energy.
That is how Fed always looks when he is nervous. Disinterested.
 

sportsfan1

Hall of Fame
It's very unfortunate to see Federer play great, get into winning positions against Djokovic in this many slams, yet come out on the losing end.

Fed got nervous. The blown matchpoints from the 2009 and 2010 USO, along with the many close matches he's lost such as last years Paris Bercy final to Djokovic, must have been on Federer's mind. When Federer Djokovic play, Djokovic just has to play his best but still normal game, whereas Federer has to move beyond his game's comfort zone and take more risks, and therefore any nerves or tight situations will affect Federer way more than Djokovic. He got very tight that whole game after he got to MP, didn't serve well, and the approach on the second MP was horrendous.

But even earlier in the match, at times Federer played too conservative and his topspin BH got very shaky. He should have won the first set, and had chances for the 3rd(?) set as well. Compare this to Wawrinka's MP at RG - Novak returned deep cross court, and Wawrinka hit a DTL BH winner. Djokovic himself said after the match that "Wawrinka did not play to not lose, he played to win, and that won him the match".

An epic opportunity to beat Nadal and Djokovic back to back and a win for the ages... lost. There's just no other way to put it.
 

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
RF is a choker. Djokovic on the other side had the right stuff - strategy, coolness under pressure, ability to execute better then RF at crucial moments! That what separate a winner from those who are excellent players but are not a winner! You do not have to be the better player either, just have the nerves to win the critical point and turn defeat into victory!
 

3fees

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic played the key points better, almost the entire match he was cool and stay focused, Federer played better than he has for years and he stopped Nadal Cold in the semi finals and did to him what Nadal did to Federer at RG 2019, dismissed him, Federer lost his intensity to play at 40-15, got- lulled into believing he did not have to put out more than 100% to win it ,while Djokovic stepped up his intensity and made the shots he needed to turn it around. Tennis match is not over until the final point is won.

Cheers
3Fees :)
 

Fintft

Legend
This had to be one of Fed's greatest serving days ever. Going up against the GOAT returner, Fed barely had any break points on his serve in the first 4 sets. Unbelievable serving.

Djok also served well and hit so many big serves to save critical break points throughout the match.

This looks to be the first time ever in a men's Slam final that a player failed to convert double Match Point. Unfortunate as those two match points completely overshadows Fed's overall great serving performance... OTOH, a GOAT server needs to close it out at 40-15. Fed got tight there and deserves the criticism for blowing those match points with tentative serving. He needed to hit 4 first serves at 40-15.
Well, Roger placed his serve really well, but as JMac pointed out, Nole never returned the same after the first set, after what had affected him in the second set.
 

Fintft

Legend
Djokovic played the key points better, almost the entire match he was cool and stay focused, Federer played better than he has for years and he stopped Nadal Cold in the semi finals and did to him what Nadal did to Federer at RG 2019, dismissed him, Federer lost his intensity to play at 40-15, got- lulled into believing he did not have to put out more than 100% to win it ,while Djokovic stepped up his intensity and made the shots he needed to turn it around. Tennis match is not over until the final point is won.

Cheers
3Fees :)
Djokovic knows that even when he is not at his best physically, he still stands a chance to win against anyone.

I remember Murray barely winning the Rogers cup two years ago against him, when Nole had chronic tennis elbow and received on court treatment throughout the tournament.

Bottom line this is a normal result, considering:

  1. The age difference and the mental pressure on Roger (like on Serena)
  2. Defense usually wins tennis matches
 

Fintft

Legend
Yes to both your points and it seems that Roger and Serena both got extra nervous thinking that these might some of their last chances to win GS...

To the later point, I honestly don't think that Roger practices his BH much anymore.

It's very unfortunate to see Federer play great, get into winning positions against Djokovic in this many slams, yet come out on the losing end.

Fed got nervous. The blown matchpoints from the 2009 and 2010 USO, along with the many close matches he's lost such as last years Paris Bercy final to Djokovic, must have been on Federer's mind. When Federer Djokovic play, Djokovic just has to play his best but still normal game, whereas Federer has to move beyond his game's comfort zone and take more risks, and therefore any nerves or tight situations will affect Federer way more than Djokovic. He got very tight that whole game after he got to MP, didn't serve well, and the approach on the second MP was horrendous.

But even earlier in the match, at times Federer played too conservative and his topspin BH got very shaky. He should have won the first set, and had chances for the 3rd(?) set as well. Compare this to Wawrinka's MP at RG - Novak returned deep cross court, and Wawrinka hit a DTL BH winner. Djokovic himself said after the match that "Wawrinka did not play to not lose, he played to win, and that won him the match".

An epic opportunity to beat Nadal and Djokovic back to back and a win for the ages... lost. There's just no other way to put it.
 

Fintft

Legend
I agree completely. In trying "not to think about" those matches, he was actually thinking about them. He was trying to rush through those points so he could avoid thinking which is missing the whole point.
What he needed to do was not avoid or rush through those points but mentally get completely into the moment, into the point he was about to play so there is no space for any other thought. There is a difference. I wish someone had told him.
Or he was trying to blitz krieg his opponent, like he usually does and it has worked well for him in the past?

Hard to change his way of doing things on the fly, imho.
 

Fintft

Legend
Federer had set point in set 3 .
Fed also had several break points in the end of set 5 .
Djokovic played solid on important points ,and Fed played nervous . simple .
Djokovic had to pick his battles, he even said that he was hoping they would get to a TB in the fifth...
 

Fintft

Legend
What went wrong? Some stupid Federer fan screamed out - "Come on, Roger!" just as Federer was beginning his service motion on the first match point. Federer then dumped the serve into the net and ended up losing the match. That fan lost the match for Federer! :mad:
Yes those non tennis playing fans are the worst!
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic had to pick his battles, he even said that he was hoping they would get to a TB in the fifth...
What would happen without the newly introduced TB rule, I wonder (IMO, fifth set TB should be in place only for earlier rounds so the next round is not a wash out , but no need for it in a final).

Logical to think the younger man would eventually prevail also due to the added pressure of repeatedly serving to stay in the match on Federer, but would still be interesting to see it play out.

Once it was 12-12 and TB time, Djok got confident and Fed's body language changed and he seemed pretty resigned to the inevitable, probably affected by what happened in the earlier two TBs.
 

Fintft

Legend
What would happen without the newly introduced TB rule, I wonder (IMO, fifth set TB should be in place only for earlier rounds so the next round is not a wash out , but no need for it in a final).

Logical to think the younger man would eventually prevail also due to the added pressure of repeatedly serving to stay in the match on Federer, but would still be interesting to see it play out.

Once it was 12-12 and TB time, Djok got confident and Fed's body language changed and he seemed pretty resigned to the inevitable, probably affected by what happened in the earlier two TBs.

I think that Federer might have won without the 12-12 TB, as Djokovic seemed hindered after the first set.
Eventually Roger would have adjusted his range and hit just the right ratio of WEs vs UFEs...Unless he collapsed physically himself, being the old man.
 

Mark-Touch

Hall of Fame
Well well well. The 2-match point bug is still alive and well ! :)
The Zverev brothers caught it today in doubles in Hamburg.
Up 2 match points, they lost their match to qualifiers!
 
What went wrong? Some stupid Federer fan screamed out - "Come on, Roger!" just as Federer was beginning his service motion on the first match point. Federer then dumped the serve into the net and ended up losing the match. That fan lost the match for Federer! :mad:
Breakpoint, nice image of Pete serving!
 
Top